29 replies to this topic

[Tahirah90]

Salam aleikum all,

I have a question I have been meaning to ask for quite some time,
it is the question on where Islam (in particular Shi'ite Islam) stands on the topic of evolution.

What I have perceived is that the theory on animal evolution is generally supported,
and that human evolution is limited to brain/motor development and personal growth over the thousands of years
and therewith the notion that all humans are related, for they all stem from Prophet Adem (a.s.).
For this notion was also proposed by Charles Darwin, who himself was a theologian, he suggested that we all come from a common source, this could also refer to the fact that all organisms on earth are made out of 'earth' by Allah swt and that non can be produced from 'scratch' by the creations themselves.

As a revert I have been looking for the logical aspects of Islam explaining the theory of evolution, for I saw (also before I reverted) that this seemed unlikely to have happened. I was definitely sure when I started looking into the mere anatomy and complex functioning of the brain, which is claimed to have 'evolved' to how is now.

However I would like to know whether someone here might be able to answer the question
on whether there might be a verse in the Qu'ran or an interpretation thereof which describes this phenomenon?

[iDevonian]

I cant comment too much, but I do have this.

http://www.evolutionandislam.com/home

[ateef]

Tahirah90, on 26 March 2012 - 05:28 PM, said:

Salam aleikum all,

I have a question I have been meaning to ask for quite some time,
it is the question on where Islam (in particular Shi'ite Islam) stands on the topic of evolution.

What I have perceived is that the theory on animal evolution is generally supported,
and that human evolution is limited to brain/motor development and personal growth over the thousands of years
and therewith the notion that all humans are related, for they all stem from Prophet Adem (a.s.).
For this notion was also proposed by Charles Darwin, who himself was a theologian, he suggested that we all come from a common source, this could also refer to the fact that all organisms on earth are made out of 'earth' by Allah swt and that non can be produced from 'scratch' by the creations themselves.

As a revert I have been looking for the logical aspects of Islam explaining the theory of evolution, for I saw (also before I reverted) that this seemed unlikely to have happened. I was definitely sure when I started looking into the mere anatomy and complex functioning of the brain, which is claimed to have 'evolved' to how is now.

However I would like to know whether someone here might be able to answer the question
on whether there might be a verse in the Qu'ran or an interpretation thereof which describes this phenomenon?

Walaikumasalam ,

I shall give you few verses here.But the more far you go the more far you see. Will request you to search for more in Holy Qura'n for more understanding.

This Verse Is referring to Prophet Adam(Peace Be Upon Him).

“And when your Lord said to the angels, I am going to place in the earth a khalif, they said: What! wilt Thou place in it such as shall make mischief in it and shed blood, and we celebrate Thy praise and extol Thy holiness? He said: Surely I know what you do not know.” (2:30)


Understand, feel It. We Have Options to Choose.Youse your own understanding

Your Thinking About From Prophet Adam(Peace Be Upon Him) Is Correct.

96:2 Created man, out of a (mere) clot of congealed blood ['alaq علق]:


This Is How The Ones Who Are Transgressor's Punished.

Surat Al-'A`raf [verse 166] -
So when they were insolent about that which they had been forbidden, We said to them, "Be apes, despised."

Edited by ateef, 27 March 2012 - 02:06 PM.

[mun3t]

ÈÓã Çááå ÇáÑÍãä ÇáÑÍíã
æÚáíßã ÇáÓáÇã

Unfortunately, the answers you are most likely to get is between two: a scientific or theological answer. Thus, the sip of truth is covered by mud. Honestly, you get a better answer by seek it yourself.

[29:20] Say, [O Muhammad], "Travel through the land and observe how He began creation. Then Allah will produce the final creation. Indeed Allah , over all things, is competent."

Relay on God and take His book as your guideline. The outcome between a dark and light heart is different. Also a piece of advice. Keep in mind that your comparing the words of God to a theory made by a man. Many ignore a fact of the Quran deeming it insignificant [in accordance to the subject] because it is not 'up to date' and yet they do not know its interpretations, ignorance... For example,

[2:30] And [mention, O Muhammad], when your Lord said to the angels, "Indeed, I will make upon the earth a successive authority." They said, "Will You place upon it one who causes corruption therein and sheds blood, while we declare Your praise and sanctify You?" Allah said, "Indeed, I know that which you do not know."

This is a very interesting sentence. Compare man to animals, they do not cause this 'corruption' and shed blood. Ponder about it. It a step further away from ignorance and closer to the truth.

Moreover, there are these verses:

[45:4] And in the creation of yourselves and what He disperses of moving creatures are signs for people who are certain [in faith].

[35:12] And not alike are the two bodies of water. One is fresh and sweet, palatable for drinking, and one is salty and bitter. And from each you eat tender meat and extract ornaments which you wear, and you see the ships plowing through [them] that you might seek of His bounty; and perhaps you will be grateful.

[24:45] Allah has created every [living] creature from water. And of them are those that move on their bellies, and of them are those that walk on two legs, and of them are those that walk on four. Allah creates what He wills. Indeed, Allah is over all things competent.

[23:53] And it is He Who has let free the two seas (kinds of water), one palatable and sweet, and the other salt and bitter, and He has set a barrier and a complete partition between them.

[21:24] Have those who disbelieved not considered that the heavens and the earth were a joined entity, and We separated them and made from water every living thing? Then will they not believe?

[67:19] Do they not see the birds above them with wings outspread and [sometimes] folded in? None holds them [aloft] except the Most Merciful. Indeed He is, of all things, Seeing.

[86:5] So let man observe from what he was created. [86:6] He was created from a fluid, ejected, [86:7] Emerging from between the backbone and the ribs.

Contemplate, it is an logical answer. By God! The hearts of man is like that of mud; easy to form. Accompany therefore not the ignorant least you would fall in their ditch. The truth is in one sentence, not into a theory or more.

[Tahirah90]

Salam aleikum all,

Thank you for your efforts! This is already more than I found.
May Allah swt reward you for your efforts! I will insha'Allah do more research and I might be able to add to your findings!

[md. ammar ali]

the theory of
Evolution

to me is a bogus

[Tahirah90]

varun loves ahlulbayt, on 30 March 2012 - 01:50 PM, said:

the theory of
Evolution

to me is a bogus

Tell me which aspect of it you think is bogus?
The theory that humans developed from monkeys, fish and one celled beings?
Or the theory that we all come from one common source?
Or that humans have evolved over the thousands of years they have been on this earth?
The second theory is actually supported by the story of all humans being the children of Prophet Adem (a.s.) and the third has been proven by the fact that we have evolved so substantially that we now have developed elaborate technology and high society, multiple languages and many ways to research these aspects, with the help and by the mercy of Allah swt. Allah swt granted us this intellect, however it is the individual's choice what to do with this opportunity to excell.

[Muhammed Ali]

Muslims know so little about this subject, May Allah help us

Time and again you will seeing people speaking about evolution without understanding much at all, and that applies to 'educated' people too.

We need to promote a mass education campaign so that Muslims and non-Muslims don't continue to remain in the dark about this and other related subjects. The problem is, hardly anyone knows how to deal with these subjects. Even on this forum I can only think of very very few people who can deal with such subjects.

Edited by Muhammed Ali, 30 March 2012 - 07:07 PM.

[:Sami]

Muhammed Ali, on 30 March 2012 - 07:06 PM, said:

Muslims know so little about this subject, May Allah help us

Time and again you will seeing people speaking about evolution without understanding much at all, and that applies to 'educated' people too.

We need to promote a mass education campaign so that Muslims and non-Muslims don't continue to remain in the dark about this and other related subjects. The problem is, hardly anyone knows how to deal with these subjects. Even on this forum I can only think of very very few people who can deal with such subjects.

agree brother ,
shall we start with Charles Darwin himself , the founder ?
shall we discuss his masonic ties and his very masonic family?
shall we discuss his theory of natural selection which combined with Eugenics movement giving birth to Nazi third reich .
shall we discuss  his buddies like Huxley, Marx and Hitler and their  agendas that lead to Zionism.
or perhaps Socialist Darwinism and Eugenics , now termed as Transhumanism.
And the NWO and the extermination of the weaker race (mainly us).
where would you like to start ?

Edited by :Sami, 31 March 2012 - 04:40 AM.

[Tahirah90]

:Sami, on 31 March 2012 - 04:39 AM, said:

agree brother ,
shall we start with Charles Darwin himself , the founder ?
shall we discuss his masonic ties and his very masonic family?
shall we discuss his theory of natural selection which combined with Eugenics movement giving birth to Nazi third reich .
shall we discuss  his buddies like Huxley, Marx and Hitler and their  agendas that lead to Zionism.
or perhaps Socialist Darwinism and Eugenics , now termed as Transhumanism.
And the NWO and the extermination of the weaker race (mainly us).
where would you like to start ?

That is an approach I never even considered. Very well thought of, brother! As I was focussing on the science of evolution, I did not even think about the social and political implication such a theory has. It does give way to being narcissistic, nationalistic and overall overly proud of oneself or one's people, which is something greatly discouraged (if not forbidden) by all Allah's Prophets (a.s.) and therefore also in Islam. This is a very viable argument against such a theory from a humanistic point of view!

[:Sami]

Tahirah90, on 01 April 2012 - 04:47 AM, said:

That is an approach I never even considered. Very well thought of, brother! As I was focussing on the science of evolution, I did not even think about the social and political implication such a theory has. It does give way to being narcissistic, nationalistic and overall overly proud of oneself or one's people, which is something greatly discouraged (if not forbidden) by all Allah's Prophets (a.s.) and therefore also in Islam. This is a very viable argument against such a theory from a humanistic point of view!

:Allah-Barek-Bik. sister .
Perhaps you like to open a thread and let us educate our brother and sister on the real impact of EVOLUTION.

[md. ammar ali]

Tahirah90, on 30 March 2012 - 03:03 PM, said:

Tell me which aspect of it you think is bogus?
The theory that humans developed from monkeys, fish and one celled beings?
Or the theory that we all come from one common source?
Or that humans have evolved over the thousands of years they have been on this earth?
The second theory is actually supported by the story of all humans being the children of Prophet Adem (a.s.) and the third has been proven by the fact that we have evolved so substantially that we now have developed elaborate technology and high society, multiple languages and many ways to research these aspects, with the help and by the mercy of Allah swt. Allah swt granted us this intellect, however it is the individual's choice what to do with this opportunity to excell.

so you claim single cell - fish - monkey - human beings

and amongst the human beings Allah swt chooses 1 man - nabi adam ; gives intellect and from then human race started

but what i have learnt is that nabi adam was the 1st human being ever

isnt there a contradiction there?

how do you explain that

[iDevonian]

Tahirah90, on 30 March 2012 - 03:03 PM, said:

Tell me which aspect of it you think is bogus?
The theory that humans developed from monkeys, fish and one celled beings?
Or the theory that we all come from one common source?
Or that humans have evolved over the thousands of years they have been on this earth?
The second theory is actually supported by the story of all humans being the children of Prophet Adem (a.s.) and the third has been proven by the fact that we have evolved so substantially that we now have developed elaborate technology and high society, multiple languages and many ways to research these aspects, with the help and by the mercy of Allah swt. Allah swt granted us this intellect, however it is the individual's choice what to do with this opportunity to excell.

here you go.

If you understand evolution in biological terms, it will make it easier to understand exactly what you are asking.

I like part 4 the most.

It goes up to part 8 or 9 or so.  But here are the first 4 of the series.

Edited by iDevonian, 01 April 2012 - 11:45 AM.

[Tahirah90]

varun loves ahlulbayt, on 01 April 2012 - 11:10 AM, said:

so you claim single cell - fish - monkey - human beings
and amongst the human beings Allah swt chooses 1 man - nabi adam ; gives intellect and from then human race started
but what i have learnt is that nabi adam was the 1st human being ever
isnt there a contradiction there?
how do you explain that

Brother as you re-read my post, I never said that I agree with the first 'theory', however there are people out there who have been brainwashed/"convinced" that this actually happened. I was merely interested in the Islamic point of view on the claim that most scientists are making nowadays.

The point brother :Sami raised was one, I for one never considered and I find it highly motivating to do research on this topic. As I am aware of the science, I also recognize the unlikeness of a series of random mutations leading to a being so sophisticated, balanced and so complete. However I thought someone might be more advanced in the Islamic information out there and masha'Allah I got some great responses by ateef and mun3t! May Allah swt reward the ones putting effort in clarifying topics to Muslim brothers and sister, insha'Allah!

However I am trying to make clear that I am a believer in the Creation of Man by Allah swt and that I therefore believe in Prophet Adem (a.s.) being the first human being on earth. I started this thread merely to share a problem with more people, so that the results would be more clarity for all. The evolution of intellect becomes evident from the numerous Hadiths by our Holy Prophet and his Houshold (a.s.).

For example the one Hadith where the Prophet (a.s.) explains that in the future people will be able to sin without even being near to one another. This to people in the Prophet's (a.s.) time was something unimaginable, however nowadays as we have telephones, TV and programs such as Facebook and Skype, we can very well imagine that this can and unfortunately is happening.

This is what I meant with the intellectual evolution of mankind, this however has nothing to do with the humans who lived before us were inadequate or unevolved, God forbid, I am not saying this! The intellect we possess now is adequate for the time we live in now, however place any of us in any other time, past or future, we would probably be highly deprived of otherwise common knowledge of that specific time. This is the beauty of the teachings of the Ahlulbayt (a.s.), as They are the living manifestations of the teachings of Allah swt, They show us until today that science is of great importance and that with an ever changing world around us, we are prepared for new questions arising everyday by sticking to Their purity of faith and unimaginable extend of knowledge! Alhamdullillah!

[:Sami]

Tahirah90, on 01 April 2012 - 01:50 PM, said:

Brother as you re-read my post, I never said that I agree with the first 'theory', however there are people out there who have been brainwashed/"convinced" that this actually happened. I was merely interested in the Islamic point of view on the claim that most scientists are making nowadays.

The point brother :Sami raised was one, I for one never considered and I find it highly motivating to do research on this topic. As I am aware of the science, I also recognize the unlikeness of a series of random mutations leading to a being so sophisticated, balanced and so complete. However I thought someone might be more advanced in the Islamic information out there and masha'Allah I got some great responses by ateef and mun3t! May Allah swt reward the ones putting effort in clarifying topics to Muslim brothers and sister, insha'Allah!

However I am trying to make clear that I am a believer in the Creation of Man by Allah swt and that I therefore believe in Prophet Adem (a.s.) being the first human being on earth. I started this thread merely to share a problem with more people, so that the results would be more clarity for all. The evolution of intellect becomes evident from the numerous Hadiths by our Holy Prophet and his Houshold (a.s.).

For example the one Hadith where the Prophet (a.s.) explains that in the future people will be able to sin without even being near to one another. This to people in the Prophet's (a.s.) time was something unimaginable, however nowadays as we have telephones, TV and programs such as Facebook and Skype, we can very well imagine that this can and unfortunately is happening.

This is what I meant with the intellectual evolution of mankind, this however has nothing to do with the humans who lived before us were inadequate or unevolved, God forbid, I am not saying this! The intellect we possess now is adequate for the time we live in now, however place any of us in any other time, past or future, we would probably be highly deprived of otherwise common knowledge of that specific time. This is the beauty of the teachings of the Ahlulbayt (a.s.), as They are the living manifestations of the teachings of Allah swt, They show us until today that science is of great importance and that with an ever changing world around us, we are prepared for new questions arising everyday by sticking to Their purity of faith and unimaginable extend of knowledge! Alhamdullillah!

Ready this is will throw everything out the window,
According to the Australian [Ab]original people dating back 40,000 years of history , namely the :Githabul tribe in north eastern part of New South Wales,
and according to their song lines , they claim that the first man and woman was brought down by the "star people " from starships from Sirius.
This event took place on the holy site of Mount Warning , the most eastern point of Australia , and according to song lines , it was also the first point in creation  where the Sun rays touched the Earth for the first time .
They have proof of this and I was present when they sang the song lines in the original language .

Edited by :Sami, 01 April 2012 - 02:17 PM.

[Aarash_Australia]

:Sami, on 31 March 2012 - 04:39 AM, said:

agree brother ,
shall we start with Charles Darwin himself , the founder ?
shall we discuss his masonic ties and his very masonic family?
shall we discuss his theory of natural selection which combined with Eugenics movement giving birth to Nazi third reich .
shall we discuss  his buddies like Huxley, Marx and Hitler and their  agendas that lead to Zionism.
or perhaps Socialist Darwinism and Eugenics , now termed as Transhumanism.
And the NWO and the extermination of the weaker race (mainly us).
where would you like to start ?

LOL.

You're hilarious.

[:Sami]

Aarash_Australia, on 01 April 2012 - 03:01 PM, said:

LOL.

You're hilarious.

Shukran Habibi,
It's always nice to make a brother laugh

[:Sami]

Salaam sister Tahirah90,

what do you know of Eugenics and Transhumanism ?

[Tahirah90]

:Sami, on 03 April 2012 - 04:31 AM, said:

Salaam sister Tahirah90,

what do you know of Eugenics and Transhumanism ?

Salam aleikum brother,

I have heard of the first and as I am more familiar with science than with philosophy the latter was completely unknown to me.
A quick research does tell me that these are topics related to the issue that you raised on racial dominance and the like.

These are definitely topics worth talking and raising awareness about. For I know that researchers are, as we speak, trying to find out how to genetically engineer baby's to have qualities requested by the parents (if they have not done such ludicrous experiments already). And the whole idea of cloning animals is also something which has been tried before, at least on animals. Which however proved to be very hard and the 'offspring' was very weak and displayed many disorders not present in the parent animal.

This really underlines the importance of religion in the fields of science, politics and law. For when one keeps to the morals and values of a complete religion, one already has the knowledge and logic to handle these problems appropriately!

[ateef]

Tahirah90, on 03 April 2012 - 08:59 AM, said:

Salam aleikum brother,

I have heard of the first and as I am more familiar with science than with philosophy the latter was completely unknown to me.
A quick research does tell me that these are topics related to the issue that you raised on racial dominance and the like.

These are definitely topics worth talking and raising awareness about. For I know that researchers are, as we speak, trying to find out how to genetically engineer baby's to have qualities requested by the parents (if they have not done such ludicrous experiments already). And the whole idea of cloning animals is also something which has been tried before, at least on animals. Which however proved to be very hard and the 'offspring' was very weak and displayed many disorders not present in the parent animal.

This really underlines the importance of religion in the fields of science, politics and law. For when one keeps to the morals and values of a complete religion, one already has the knowledge and logic to handle these problems appropriately!

Why are you so disturbed.Why are you listening to so much i do not know. why are you wasting your time here . Listen Sister, the truth is revealed in the Holy Quran, simple and straight,

Believe in it.that's what Emaan Is.You Shall have no fear about what you believed after your death. that's what counts.It is easy for Allah any task. He says be and it is done.

Do not go too deep. You will get lost. Just believe. In Quran surely your guidance.

[Tahirah90]

ateef, on 03 April 2012 - 09:27 AM, said:

Why are you so disturbed.Why are you listening to so much i do not know. why are you wasting your time here . Listen Sister, the truth is revealed in the Holy Quran, simple and straight,
Believe in it.that's what Emaan Is.You Shall have no fear about what you believed after your death. that's what counts.It is easy for Allah any task. He says be and it is done.
Do not go too deep. You will get lost. Just believe. In Quran surely your guidance.

Brother, first of all it is not forbidden to look into the proof that is out there for the truth revealed in the Holy Qu'ran. Not everything in the Qu'ran is straight forward, that makes it so wondrous and beautiful! But if no one ever looked into what the sayings in the Qu'ran meant or could mean, we would have had no interpretation what so ever, and who are we to think that we understand the Divine message of the Qu'ran fully?

Gaining more knowledge in several fields is actually encouraged by the Holy Prophet (a.s.). Islamic knowledge (which includes knowledge on all aspects of life (and death)) is of great importance to us, so why would you discourage anyone trying to gain more knowledge in the way of Allah swt? Your Iman does not increase by reading the Qu'ran and not (wanting to put effort into) understanding it; for understanding the Holy Message within the Qu'ran (at least to the best of our capabilities) will eventually lead us to live a more pios life! So baseline I do not agree with what you are saying brother. And I sincerely hope your way of addressing me is not one of disrespect.

[:Sami]

Tahirah90, on 03 April 2012 - 08:59 AM, said:

Salam aleikum brother,

I have heard of the first and as I am more familiar with science than with philosophy the latter was completely unknown to me.
A quick research does tell me that these are topics related to the issue that you raised on racial dominance and the like.

These are definitely topics worth talking and raising awareness about. For I know that researchers are, as we speak, trying to find out how to genetically engineer baby's to have qualities requested by the parents (if they have not done such ludicrous experiments already). And the whole idea of cloning animals is also something which has been tried before, at least on animals. Which however proved to be very hard and the 'offspring' was very weak and displayed many disorders not present in the parent animal.

This really underlines the importance of religion in the fields of science, politics and law. For when one keeps to the morals and values of a complete religion, one already has the knowledge and logic to handle these problems appropriately!

WS Sister,
Transhumanism is a science which is the latest  evolution theory with steroids projected to posthuman.
It was called Eugenics , but the stigma attached to this with the Nazi scientist experimenting on people did not go down too well after WW1.
To explain it very quickly  that Transhumanist (H+), believe that the evolution of humans , will be in 3 stages.

• The current state of the flesh and bones , which has reached it's peak , 2012, the royal bloodlines are the chosen race of humans to go forth to the promised land.
  
• They will  be replaced  with robotic implants till they become full metal alloys robotics, this is the higher evolutionary plane which will last a few millennia.
  
• Than they will evolve into pure energy , and drift into pure consciousness and thus existing till eternity .

They are well on their way to No. 2 , with secret technologies 20,000 years ahead of mainstream science.
Your courses that you are spending much money and time are 20,000 years behind.
Perhaps you were guided to :Islam. to be fast tracked , but unfortunately you won't get there with your current paradigm.
Get out of Uni.

Edited by :Sami, 03 April 2012 - 11:11 AM.

[Tahirah90]

:Sami, on 03 April 2012 - 11:09 AM, said:

WS Sister,
Transhumanism is a science which is the latest  evolution theory with steroids projected to posthuman.
It was called Eugenics , but the stigma attached to this with the Nazi scientist experimenting on people did not go down too well after WW1.
To explain it very quickly  that Transhumanist (H+), believe that the evolution of humans , will be in 3 stages.

• The current state of the flesh and bones , which has reached it's peak , 2012, the royal bloodlines are the chosen race of humans to go forth to the promised land.
  
• They will  be replaced  with robotic implants till they become full metal alloys robotics, this is the higher evolutionary plane which will last a few millennia.
  
• Than they will evolve into pure energy , and drift into pure consciousness and thus existing till eternity .

They are well on their way to No. 2 , with secret technologies 20,000 years ahead of mainstream science.
Your courses that you are spending much money and time are 20,000 years behind.
Perhaps you were guided to :Islam. to be fast tracked , but unfortunately you won't get there with your current paradigm.
Get out of Uni.

Salam aleikum brother,

thank you for the explanation. May Allah swt save us from this ridiculous idea! And may the ones believing in such an hideously nationalistic, narcissistic and egocentric theory be guided towards the path of truth, insha'Allah!

I do think that although I might be gaining outdated knowledge now, it is better than doing nothing. Allah swt gave me the chance to study at a University and I am grateful for this opportunity, if it will help me with understanding the logic of the Qu'ran more it is already a gain.

[Muhammed Ali]

Tahirah90 read books by Micheal Behe to start with.

:Sami, on 31 March 2012 - 04:39 AM, said:

agree brother ,
shall we start with Charles Darwin himself , the founder ?
shall we discuss his masonic ties and his very masonic family?
shall we discuss his theory of natural selection which combined with Eugenics movement giving birth to Nazi third reich .
shall we discuss  his buddies like Huxley, Marx and Hitler and their  agendas that lead to Zionism.
or perhaps Socialist Darwinism and Eugenics , now termed as Transhumanism.
And the NWO and the extermination of the weaker race (mainly us).
where would you like to start ?

Personally I am not too fond of the masonic conspiracy theories but I think Soical Darwinism is an important subject. Darwinism does have a detrimental impact on ethics.

[Tahirah90]

Muhammed Ali, on 03 April 2012 - 04:09 PM, said:

Tahirah90 read books by Micheal Behe to start with.
Personally I am not too fond of the masonic conspiracy theories but I think Soical Darwinism is an important subject. Darwinism does have a detrimental impact on ethics.

Thank you brother, insha'Allah I will look into it. However I am more interested in books written by Islamic scholars/scientists on evolution, this is a good start!