13 replies to this topic

[Hassan_S]

Salamualaykum

I once heard that Imam Hussain a.s was offered help at Karbala from Allah swt but refused it to acheive martyrdom

Does anyone know if this is true?

[AidAsSadik]

Hassan_S, on 20 March 2012 - 09:00 PM, said:

Salamualaykum

I once heard that Imam Hussain a.s was offered help at Karbala from Allah swt but refused it to acheive martyrdom

Does anyone know if this is true?

We belive that Imam's a.s was know when they die,and how they will die.Imam Hussein since he was child was know what will happend to him,and if he wanted save himself,he will ask Allah for help,and Allah would respond for sure,but no he did not,he accept that as regulation of Allah svt,at same way as Abraham a.s was accept that he sacrifise Ismail a.s.Allah was offter help to Abraham,and Abraham accept it.Personaly i beleve that Allah s.v.t offter same that to Hussein,but he alejhissellam was decided to sacrifise himself for sake of Allah,Prophet,His Family and all of us who follow them inshaAllah.But Allah knows best.Salam

[worshiper]

i suppose he(as) wasnt offered help as it was destined in an unusual manner. like hazrat Ibtahim(as) was offered help by jinns or angels while he was burning in the fire, but he refused to be helped by angels and replied that Allah(swt) is aware of my condition and if it is his will, he'll save me and he was saved. but Imam's martyrdom was destined and there wasn't any option of being saved.
each help offered to him was an add on to the path  of sacrifice.

w/s.

[Goku]

The only help I know that was offered to Imam Hussein as was the people of Medina right before Hussein as and his caravan left to go to the battle. They loved Hussein as and his family so much, especially Ali akbar because he reminded them of the Prophet saw. They offered to send all their able-bodied person's to protect Hussein as and his companions but Hussein as declined and told them he was instructed by God to only take the people already with him.

[muhibb-ali]

Salam.

I have also read this some where.

Here is what I could find for now. Will post if I find anything more:


Al Kaafi - Kitab Al Hujjah Ch. 47, h8:

عدة من أصحابنا، عن أحمد بن محمد، عن علي بن الحكم، عن سيف بن عميرة، عن عبدالملك بن أعين، عن أبي جعفر (عليه السلام) قال: أنزل الله تعالى النصر على الحسين (عليه السلام) حتى كان [ما] بين السماء والارض (4) ثم خير: النصر، أو لقاء الله، فاختار لقاء الله تعالى

A number of our people has narrated from Ahmad ibn Muhammad from Ali ibn al-Hakam from Sayf ibn ‘Umayra from ‘Abd al-Malik ibn A‘yan from abu Ja‘far who has said the following. "Allah, the Most Holy, the Most High, sent support for Imam al-Husayn up to the fill between the heavens and earth. Then he was let to choose either victory or meeting Allah. He, however, he  chose the meeting of Allah the Most High."


There are other narrations also which state that some Jinns went to Karbala with the intention of helping Imam Husain , but by the time they reached there Imam Husain was Martyred. These very Jinns then spread the news of Shahadat of Imam Husain .

Following is one such narrations taken from Amali of Sheikh Mufeed.

Al Amali - Sheikh Mufeed, Assembly.38 Hadees.8

He said: Abu Hafs Umar b. Muhammad reported to me from Ali b. al-Abbas, who reported from Abdul Karim b. Muhammad, who reported from Sulaiman b. Muqbil al-Harith, who reported from Mahfooz b. al-Munzar, who reported from an elder of Banu Tameem, who lived at al-Rabiya.
He said: I heard my father say that they did not know of al-Husain's martyrdom till evening of Ashura. He said: I was sitting at al-Rabiya with some people from that district, and we heard a voice saying:
"By Allah, I have not come to you till I had seen at Kerbala,
the head cut off, with two dusty cheeks!
And around him, young men whose throats spurt out blood,
and like lamps spreading light in the darkness.
I prodded my camel (to run) so that I could meet them
before the reticent ones go to meet the Houris.
But the destiny prevented me, and Allah would fulfil it,
And the command of Allah was a determined fate.
Al-Husain was a lamp from which light was obtained.
Allah knows that I have never lied,
May Allah bless the body, which has been contained
by al-Husain's grave, as a good companion.
In the neighbourhood of the Prophet in the chambers,
and of Ali and al-Tayyar, pleased and satisfied."

So we said: "May Allah bless you with mercy, who are you?" He said: "My father and I are Jinn of Nasibayn. We intended to help al-Husain, peace be upon him, and assist him with our lives. So we proceeded from Haj, but reached him when they had been killed.

Edited by muhibb-ali, 21 March 2012 - 01:37 AM.

[md. ammar ali]

no i dont think so because he was destined to be a martyr

but Allah swt knows the best

http://smma59.wordpr...tle-of-karbala/

[Hassan_S]

Thank you to everyone for your helpful inputs

Goku, on 21 March 2012 - 01:21 AM, said:

The only help I know that was offered to Imam Hussein as was the people of Medina right before Hussein as and his caravan left to go to the battle. They loved Hussein as and his family so much, especially Ali akbar because he reminded them of the Prophet saw. They offered to send all their able-bodied person's to protect Hussein as and his companions but Hussein as declined and told them he was instructed by God to only take the people already with him.

This is a really interesting point..

[MALANGG]

yes i have heard it from my fav orator
He said that imam husain a.s was offered for help from the angels land sky prophets air Allah s.w.t etc.
And he gave a reply of he a.s to each of the, beautifully.
I recommend if you know urdu go to the youtube and type shaukat raza shaukat hyderbad 1And listen.
Its just awesome

[A true Sunni]

Angel for Soul, on 22 March 2012 - 03:08 PM, said:

yes i have heard it from my fav orator
He said that imam husain a.s was offered for help from the angels land sky prophets air Allah s.w.t etc.
And he gave a reply of he a.s to each of the, beautifully.
I recommend if you know urdu go to the youtube and type shaukat raza shaukat hyderbad 1And listen.
Its just awesome

You guys listen to much to Zakirs and not enough to genuine scholars. Do you guys never ponder on what you have written or what you have heard. Taking Karbala out of the equation just for a minute. What would you say if I had said that Allah s.w.t had offered help to the 3 Khalifas and they had turned it down.

You would be throwing around accusations of apostacy by now. So ponder on what you have written or heard and ask yourself does this sound right to me

[macisaac]

Sometimes I find my fellow Shi`as need to be reminded of a very essential fact.  That is, the Imams were not prophest or messengers, and so did not receive wa7i.  Even amongst the prophets themselves, the station of having Allah speak to them was not granted to all, and in fact this is a distinguished honor that gets mentioned of one of them in particular, Musa Kaleemullah.  And before anyone objects, remember that considering the Imams as prophets would be kufr and throw you out of Islam, so please be very careful to keep a clear distinction between them.

[La fata illa Ali]

macisaac, on 22 March 2012 - 09:54 PM, said:

Sometimes I find my fellow Shi`as need to be reminded of a very essential fact.  That is, the Imams were not prophest or messengers, and so did not receive wa7i.  Even amongst the prophets themselves, the station of having Allah speak to them was not granted to all, and in fact this is a distinguished honor that gets mentioned of one of them in particular, Musa Kaleemullah.  And before anyone objects, remember that considering the Imams as prophets would be kufr and throw you out of Islam, so please be very careful to keep a clear distinction between them.

very interesting and important point.

However, what hadith do we have regarding the inherting of qualities by the Imam's ?

I know its not the best example but we see in Ziyarat Waritha that Imam Hussain and by corollory, all subsequent Imam's are the warith (inheritors) of the previous leader.


so what hadith do we have on the inherting of of these qualities?

[Al-Mufeed]

macisaac, on 22 March 2012 - 09:54 PM, said:

Sometimes I find my fellow Shi`as need to be reminded of a very essential fact.  That is, the Imams were not prophest or messengers, and so did not receive wa7i.  Even amongst the prophets themselves, the station of having Allah speak to them was not granted to all, and in fact this is a distinguished honor that gets mentioned of one of them in particular, Musa Kaleemullah.  And before anyone objects, remember that considering the Imams as prophets would be kufr and throw you out of Islam, so please be very careful to keep a clear distinction between them.

How do you define wahi?

Is being a muhaddith (speaking to an angel) considered receiving wahi?

Didnt they receive divine information (through various ways) - isnt that a type of wahi?

[muhibb-ali]

macisaac, on 22 March 2012 - 09:54 PM, said:

Sometimes I find my fellow Shi`as need to be reminded of a very essential fact.  That is, the Imams were not prophest or messengers, and so did not receive wa7i.  Even amongst the prophets themselves, the station of having Allah speak to them was not granted to all, and in fact this is a distinguished honor that gets mentioned of one of them in particular, Musa Kaleemullah.  And before anyone objects, remember that considering the Imams as prophets would be kufr and throw you out of Islam, so please be very careful to keep a clear distinction between them.

Salam

True that the Imam's are not Prophet's and we have a complete chapter in Al Kafi on this subject which no one denies.

But it should be known that Wahi is not limited to Prophet's and Messengers.
Below is what the Quran says:

وَأَوْحَيْنَا إِلَىٰ أُمِّ مُوسَىٰ أَنْ أَرْضِعِيهِ
So We sent this inspiration to the mother of Moses: [Quran, 28:7]

Another thing i could find:

عن أبي عبد الله جعفر بن محمد ( عليه السلام ) قال :
« لما نزل رسول الله بطن قديد قال لعلي بن أبي طالب ( عليه السلام ) : يا علي اني سألت الله عز وجل ان يوالي بيني وبينك ففعل ، وسألته أن يوحي بيني وبينك ففعل

Abu Abdillah Jafar bin Muhammad said:
The Messenger of Allah (saww) said to Imam Ali , O Ali , I asked Allah to make me and you love each other, and He did. I asked Allah to reveal to both of us and He did....

[Source: Amali - Sheikh Toosi 1:106]

You can also see this narration in Basharatul Mustafa Pg 363
http://www.rafed.net...ra/029.html#487

In addition if one read the chapter 41 of Kitab Al Hujja in Al-Kaafi it is clear that its the Imam's upon whom the angels descend with reference to the Sura-e-Qadr. Quoting one hadees below:


Narrated from Abu Jafar ....

"It is certain that on the Night of Determination the explanation and clarification of all issues of the year comes to the man who possesses Divine authority. On that Night the Wali al-’Amr (the man who possesses Divine authority) receives commands about his self, for so and so, and about the affairs of the people in so and so. It also is certain that for the man with Divine authority, besides this, every year, there comes the knowledge of Allah, the Most Holy, the Most High. (There comes to him) the exclusive knowledge, the hidden, the wonderful and the treasured knowledge of Allah. It comes in the Night of Determination just as the commands do." Then he recited. "If all the trees in the earth were pens and the ocean, with seven more oceans, were ink still these could not suffice to record all the Words of Allah. Allah is Majestic and All-wise." (31:27).

[Source: Al Kaafi, Kitab Al Hujja, Chapter 41, Hadees.3]

Edited by muhibb-ali, 23 March 2012 - 01:47 AM.

[hameedeh]

Quote

"The heavens and the earth lamented the death of Husayn (a.s.). Four thousand Angels descended from the heavens to aid him, but when they reached there they saw that he had already been mar­tyred. Thus, now they all remain near his blessed grave with disheveled hair covered with dust until the rising of the Qaem (Imām al Mahdi). Then they will all aid him and their slogan will be: Vengeance for the blood of Husayn." Source: http://www.al-islam....ul-mahmum/5.htm