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Lords Prayer/ Al Fatiha


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#1 Ruq

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Posted 06 March 2012 - 10:54 AM

Its strikes me they they are quite similar.


Our Father who art in heaven, hallowed be thy name - In the name of God the most beneficent, the most merciful (adressing God, praising)

Thy kingdom come, thy will be done, on earth as it is in heaven - praise be to God, lord of the worlds, the most beneficent the most merciful, owner of the day of judgement (Gods dominion over earth and heaven and the end of days and the judgement)

Give us this day our daily bread and forgive us our tresspasses (as we forgive those who tresspass against us) - thee alone we worship, thee alone we turn to for help(asking for sustenance/aid)

lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil  - show us the straight path, the path that thou has favoured, not the path of those whove earnt that anger and gone astray (asking for help to resist the devil and recognise the good route to Him)

for thine is the kingdon, the power and the glory, forever, amen.


I remember when i was at primary school, after morning assembly, we would say the Lords prayer (this version of it anyway). My school didnt advertise itself as Christian and gave no religious instruction, but this was the habit at morning assembly. I remember there were two muslim brothers whose father had said werent allowed to remain for the lords prayer, so every day the the teacher would have to send them out and i felt sorry for them because they looked embarrassed about it. It seemed so unecessary, after all, they didnt have to say it. Apart from the word 'father' perhaps, i dont see why the lords prayer should be objectionable. I like that they have such similarities :)

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#2 Christianlady

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Posted 06 March 2012 - 02:18 PM

View Post~Ruqaya, on 06 March 2012 - 10:54 AM, said:

Its strikes me they they are quite similar.


Our Father who art in heaven, hallowed be thy name - In the name of God the most beneficent, the most merciful (adressing God, praising)

Thy kingdom come, thy will be done, on earth as it is in heaven - praise be to God, lord of the worlds, the most beneficent the most merciful, owner of the day of judgement (Gods dominion over earth and heaven and the end of days and the judgement)

Give us this day our daily bread and forgive us our tresspasses (as we forgive those who tresspass against us) - thee alone we worship, thee alone we turn to for help(asking for sustenance/aid)

lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil  - show us the straight path, the path that thou has favoured, not the path of those whove earnt that anger and gone astray (asking for help to resist the devil and recognise the good route to Him)

for thine is the kingdon, the power and the glory, forever, amen.

Hello Ruqaya's Amal,

It is interesting the similarities. It is very possible that Muhammad heard the Lord's prayer from Christians.

Jesus taught the prayer to his apostles, the leaders he chose (apostles) who walked and talked with him, as well as his followers (disciples.)  Jesus promised the Advocate = Counselor = Comforter = Spirit of truth = Holy Spirit to the apostles and disciples who walked and talked with him. After they received the Holy Spirit like Jesus promised them, the apostles and disciples  taught other people this prayer as well as the other teachings and actions of Jesus.  Since Jesus taught them to now until when Jesus comes back, many people follow Jesus' example for praying.

Jesus teaches a lot of praying, including the following passages:


Matthew 5 (NIV) - I boldened some.

"   43 “You have heard that it was said, ‘Love your neighbor[Lev. 19:18 and hate your enemy.’ 44 But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, 45 that you may be children of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. 46 If you love those who love you, what reward will you get? Are not even the tax collectors doing that? 47 And if you greet only your own people, what are you doing more than others? Do not even pagans do that? 48 Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect."

Matthew 6 (NIV) - I boldened some.

"5 “And when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by others. Truly I tell you, they have received their reward in full.6 But when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your Father, who is unseen. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you.7 And when you pray, do not keep on babbling like pagans, for they think they will be heard because of their many words.8 Do not be like them, for your Father knows what you need before you ask him.
   9 “This, then, is how you should pray:
   “‘Our Father in heaven,
hallowed be your name,
10 your kingdom come,
your will be done,
   on earth as it is in heaven.
11 Give us today our daily bread.
12 And forgive us our debts,
   as we also have forgiven our debtors.
13 And lead us not into temptation,[The Greek for temptation can also mean testing.]
   but deliver us from the evil one.[Or from evil; some late manuscripts one, / for yours is the kingdom and the power and the glory forever. Amen.]

   14 For if you forgive other people when they sin against you, your heavenly Father will also forgive you. 15 But if you do not forgive others their sins, your Father will not forgive your sins.
Fasting

16 “When you fast, do not look somber as the hypocrites do, for they disfigure their faces to show others they are fasting. Truly I tell you, they have received their reward in full. 17 But when you fast, put oil on your head and wash your face, 18 so that it will not be obvious to others that you are fasting, but only to your Father, who is unseen; and your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you."

Matthew 26 (NIV) - I boldened some.

" 36 Then Jesus went with his disciples to a place called Gethsemane, and he said to them, “Sit here while I go over there and pray.” 37 He took Peter and the two sons of Zebedee along with him, and he began to be sorrowful and troubled. 38 Then he said to them, “My soul is overwhelmed with sorrow to the point of death. Stay here and keep watch with me.”
39 Going a little farther, he fell with his face to the ground and prayed, “My Father, if it is possible, may this cup be taken from me. Yet not as I will, but as you will.”
40 Then he returned to his disciples and found them sleeping. “Couldn’t you men keep watch with me for one hour?” he asked Peter. 41 “Watch and pray so that you will not fall into temptation. The spirit is willing, but the flesh is weak.”
42 He went away a second time and prayed, “My Father, if it is not possible for this cup to be taken away unless I drink it, may your will be done.”



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Apart from the word 'father' perhaps, i dont see why the lords prayer should be objectionable. I like that they have such similarities :)


The Lord (Master's) prayer is beautiful!!! :) I understand however why some Muslims do not want their children saying it. For example, if God wills I have children someday, I would not want my children reciting prayers that Muhammad taught. If after they grow up they decide to become Muslim, it would sadden me, but I would never stop loving them and would always pray for them. As a Christian, if God wills my husband and I have kids someday, my children will learn  the Lord's prayer. You are right that there are similarities between the prayer Jesus taught and the prayer that Muhammad taught. Again, it is very likely that Muhammad heard about the Lord's prayer.

Concerning God being the Father, it is possibly hard for Muslims and for Gentiles who do not study the Tanakh to understand the importance of Jesus calling God his Father, and of us (Christians who follow Jesus) being children of God. This is a spiritual term, and is a part of the Messianic promise God gave to King David:


2 Samuel 7 - http://www.mechon-ma.../pt/pt08b07.htm - I boldened some.
  ד  וַיְהִי, בַּלַּיְלָה הַהוּא;  {ס}  וַיְהִי, דְּבַר-יְהוָה, אֶל-נָתָן, לֵאמֹר. 4 And it came to pass the same night, {S} that the word of the LORD came unto Nathan, saying:   ה  לֵךְ וְאָמַרְתָּ אֶל-עַבְדִּי אֶל-דָּוִד,  {ס}  כֹּה אָמַר יְהוָה:  הַאַתָּה תִּבְנֶה-לִּי בַיִת, לְשִׁבְתִּי. 5 'Go and tell My servant David: {S} Thus saith the LORD: Shalt thou build Me a house for Me to dwell in?   ו  כִּי לֹא יָשַׁבְתִּי, בְּבַיִת, לְמִיּוֹם הַעֲלֹתִי אֶת-בְּנֵי יִשְׂרָאֵל מִמִּצְרַיִם, וְעַד הַיּוֹם הַזֶּה; וָאֶהְיֶה, מִתְהַלֵּךְ, בְּאֹהֶל, וּבְמִשְׁכָּן. 6 for I have not dwelt in a house since the day that I brought up the children of Israel out of Egypt, even to this day, but have walked in a tent and in a tabernacle.   ז  בְּכֹל אֲשֶׁר-הִתְהַלַּכְתִּי, בְּכָל-בְּנֵי יִשְׂרָאֵל, הֲדָבָר דִּבַּרְתִּי אֶת-אַחַד שִׁבְטֵי יִשְׂרָאֵל, אֲשֶׁר צִוִּיתִי לִרְעוֹת אֶת-עַמִּי אֶת-יִשְׂרָאֵל לֵאמֹר:  לָמָּה לֹא-בְנִיתֶם לִי, בֵּית אֲרָזִים. 7 In all places wherein I have walked among all the children of Israel, spoke I a word with any of the tribes of Israel, whom I commanded to feed My people Israel, saying: Why have ye not built Me a house of cedar?   ח  וְעַתָּה כֹּה-תֹאמַר לְעַבְדִּי לְדָוִד, כֹּה אָמַר יְהוָה צְבָאוֹת, אֲנִי לְקַחְתִּיךָ מִן-הַנָּוֶה, מֵאַחַר הַצֹּאן--לִהְיוֹת נָגִיד, עַל-עַמִּי עַל-יִשְׂרָאֵל. 8 Now therefore thus shalt thou say unto My servant David: Thus saith the LORD of hosts: I took thee from the sheepcote, from following the sheep, that thou shouldest be prince over My people, over Israel.   ט  וָאֶהְיֶה עִמְּךָ, בְּכֹל אֲשֶׁר הָלַכְתָּ, וָאַכְרִתָה אֶת-כָּל-אֹיְבֶיךָ, מִפָּנֶיךָ; וְעָשִׂתִי לְךָ שֵׁם גָּדוֹל, כְּשֵׁם הַגְּדֹלִים אֲשֶׁר בָּאָרֶץ. 9 And I have been with thee whithersoever thou didst go, and have cut off all thine enemies from before thee; and I will make thee a great name, like unto the name of the great ones that are in the earth.   י  וְשַׂמְתִּי מָקוֹם לְעַמִּי לְיִשְׂרָאֵל וּנְטַעְתִּיו, וְשָׁכַן תַּחְתָּיו, וְלֹא יִרְגַּז, עוֹד; וְלֹא-יֹסִיפוּ בְנֵי-עַוְלָה לְעַנּוֹתוֹ, כַּאֲשֶׁר בָּרִאשׁוֹנָה. 10 And I will appoint a place for My people Israel, and will plant them, that they may dwell in their own place, and be disquieted no more; neither shall the children of wickedness afflict them any more, as at the first,   יא  וּלְמִן-הַיּוֹם, אֲשֶׁר צִוִּיתִי שֹׁפְטִים עַל-עַמִּי יִשְׂרָאֵל, וַהֲנִיחֹתִי לְךָ, מִכָּל-אֹיְבֶיךָ; וְהִגִּיד לְךָ יְהוָה, כִּי-בַיִת יַעֲשֶׂה-לְּךָ יְהוָה. 11 even from the day that I commanded judges to be over My people Israel; and I will cause thee to rest from all thine enemies. Moreover the LORD telleth thee that the LORD will make thee a house.   יב  כִּי יִמְלְאוּ יָמֶיךָ, וְשָׁכַבְתָּ אֶת-אֲבֹתֶיךָ, וַהֲקִימֹתִי אֶת-זַרְעֲךָ אַחֲרֶיךָ, אֲשֶׁר יֵצֵא מִמֵּעֶיךָ; וַהֲכִינֹתִי, אֶת-מַמְלַכְתּוֹ. 12 When thy days are fulfilled, and thou shalt sleep with thy fathers, I will set up thy seed after thee, that shall proceed out of thy body, and I will establish his kingdom.   יג  הוּא יִבְנֶה-בַּיִת, לִשְׁמִי; וְכֹנַנְתִּי אֶת-כִּסֵּא מַמְלַכְתּוֹ, עַד-עוֹלָם. 13 He shall build a house for My name, and I will establish the throne of his kingdom for ever.   יד  אֲנִי אֶהְיֶה-לּוֹ לְאָב, וְהוּא יִהְיֶה-לִּי לְבֵן--אֲשֶׁר, בְּהַעֲו‍ֹתוֹ, וְהֹכַחְתִּיו בְּשֵׁבֶט אֲנָשִׁים, וּבְנִגְעֵי בְּנֵי אָדָם. 14 I will be to him for a father, and he shall be to Me for a son; if he commit iniquity, I will chasten him with the rod of men, and with the stripes of the children of men;   טו  וְחַסְדִּי, לֹא-יָסוּר מִמֶּנּוּ, כַּאֲשֶׁר הֲסִרֹתִי מֵעִם שָׁאוּל, אֲשֶׁר הֲסִרֹתִי מִלְּפָנֶיךָ. 15 but My mercy shall not depart from him, as I took it from Saul, whom I put away before thee.   טז  וְנֶאְמַן בֵּיתְךָ וּמַמְלַכְתְּךָ עַד-עוֹלָם, לְפָנֶיךָ:  כִּסְאֲךָ, יִהְיֶה נָכוֹן עַד-עוֹלָם. 16 And thy house and thy kingdom shall be made sure for ever before thee; thy throne shall be established for ever.'   יז  כְּכֹל הַדְּבָרִים הָאֵלֶּה, וּכְכֹל הַחִזָּיוֹן הַזֶּה--כֵּן דִּבֶּר נָתָן, אֶל-דָּוִד.  {פ} 17 According to all these words, and according to all this vision, so did Nathan speak unto David. {P}

Psalm 2 - http://www.mechon-ma...p/pt/pt2602.htm

" 1 Why are the nations in an uproar? And why do the peoples mutter in vain?   ב  יִתְיַצְּבוּ, מַלְכֵי-אֶרֶץ-- וְרוֹזְנִים נוֹסְדוּ-יָחַד:
עַל-יְהוָה, וְעַל-מְשִׁיחוֹ. 2 The kings of the earth stand up, and the rulers take counsel together, {N}
against the LORD, and against His anointed:   ג  נְנַתְּקָה, אֶת-מוֹסְרוֹתֵימוֹ; וְנַשְׁלִיכָה מִמֶּנּוּ עֲבֹתֵימוֹ. 3 'Let us break their bands asunder, and cast away their cords from us.'   ד  יוֹשֵׁב בַּשָּׁמַיִם יִשְׂחָק: אֲדֹנָי, יִלְעַג-לָמוֹ. 4 He that sitteth in heaven laugheth, the Lord hath them in derision.   ה  אָז יְדַבֵּר אֵלֵימוֹ בְאַפּוֹ; וּבַחֲרוֹנוֹ יְבַהֲלֵמוֹ. 5 Then will He speak unto them in His wrath, and affright them in His sore displeasure:   ו  וַאֲנִי, נָסַכְתִּי מַלְכִּי: עַל-צִיּוֹן, הַר-קָדְשִׁי. 6 'Truly it is I that have established My king upon Zion, My holy mountain.'   ז  אֲסַפְּרָה, אֶל-חֹק: יְהוָה, אָמַר אֵלַי בְּנִי אַתָּה--אֲנִי, הַיּוֹם יְלִדְתִּיךָ. 7 I will tell of the decree: the LORD said unto me: 'Thou art My son, this day have I begotten thee.   ח  שְׁאַל מִמֶּנִּי--וְאֶתְּנָה גוֹיִם, נַחֲלָתֶךָ; וַאֲחֻזָּתְךָ, אַפְסֵי-אָרֶץ. 8 Ask of Me, and I will give the nations for thine inheritance, and the ends of the earth for thy possession.   ט  תְּרֹעֵם, בְּשֵׁבֶט בַּרְזֶל: כִּכְלִי יוֹצֵר תְּנַפְּצֵם. 9 Thou shalt break them with a rod of iron; thou shalt dash them in pieces like a potter's vessel.'   י  וְעַתָּה, מְלָכִים הַשְׂכִּילוּ; הִוָּסְרוּ, שֹׁפְטֵי אָרֶץ. 10 Now therefore, O ye kings, be wise; be admonished, ye judges of the earth.   יא  עִבְדוּ אֶת-יְהוָה בְּיִרְאָה; וְגִילוּ, בִּרְעָדָה. 11 Serve the LORD with fear, and rejoice with trembling.   יב  נַשְּׁקוּ-בַר, פֶּן-יֶאֱנַף וְתֹאבְדוּ דֶרֶךְ-- כִּי-יִבְעַר כִּמְעַט אַפּוֹ:
אַשְׁרֵי, כָּל-חוֹסֵי בוֹ. 12 Do homage in purity, lest He be angry, and ye perish in the way, when suddenly His wrath is kindled. {N}
Happy are all they that take refuge in Him. {P}


Psalm 89

"   כא  מָצָאתִי, דָּוִד עַבְדִּי; בְּשֶׁמֶן קָדְשִׁי מְשַׁחְתִּיו. 21 I have found David My servant; with My holy oil have I anointed him; כב  אֲשֶׁר יָדִי, תִּכּוֹן עִמּוֹ; אַף-זְרוֹעִי תְאַמְּצֶנּוּ. 22 With whom My hand shall be established; Mine arm also shall strengthen him.   כג  לֹא-יַשִּׁיא אוֹיֵב בּוֹ; וּבֶן-עַוְלָה, לֹא יְעַנֶּנּוּ. 23 The enemy shall not exact from him; nor the son of wickedness afflict him.   כד  וְכַתּוֹתִי מִפָּנָיו צָרָיו; וּמְשַׂנְאָיו אֶגּוֹף. 24 And I will beat to pieces his adversaries before him, and smite them that hate him.   כה  וֶאֱמוּנָתִי וְחַסְדִּי עִמּוֹ; וּבִשְׁמִי, תָּרוּם קַרְנוֹ. 25 But My faithfulness and My mercy shall be with him; and through My name shall his horn be exalted.   כו  וְשַׂמְתִּי בַיָּם יָדוֹ; וּבַנְּהָרוֹת יְמִינוֹ. 26 I will set his hand also on the sea, and his right hand on the rivers.   כז  הוּא יִקְרָאֵנִי, אָבִי אָתָּה; אֵלִי, וְצוּר יְשׁוּעָתִי. 27 He shall call unto Me: Thou art my Father, my God, and the rock of my salvation.   כח  אַף-אָנִי, בְּכוֹר אֶתְּנֵהוּ; עֶלְיוֹן, לְמַלְכֵי-אָרֶץ. 28 I also will appoint him first-born, the highest of the kings of the earth.   כט  לְעוֹלָם, אשמור- (אֶשְׁמָר-) לוֹ חַסְדִּי; וּבְרִיתִי, נֶאֱמֶנֶת לוֹ. 29 For ever will I keep for him My mercy, and My covenant shall stand fast with him.   ל  וְשַׂמְתִּי לָעַד זַרְעוֹ; וְכִסְאוֹ, כִּימֵי שָׁמָיִם. 30 His seed also will I make to endure for ever, and his throne as the days of heaven.   לא  אִם-יַעַזְבוּ בָנָיו, תּוֹרָתִי; וּבְמִשְׁפָּטַי, לֹא יֵלֵכוּן. 31 If his children forsake My law, and walk not in Mine ordinances;   לב  אִם-חֻקֹּתַי יְחַלֵּלוּ; וּמִצְו‍ֹתַי, לֹא יִשְׁמֹרוּ. 32 If they profane My statutes, and keep not My commandments;   לג  וּפָקַדְתִּי בְשֵׁבֶט פִּשְׁעָם; וּבִנְגָעִים עֲו‍ֹנָם. 33 Then will I visit their transgression with the rod, and their iniquity with strokes.   לד  וְחַסְדִּי, לֹא-אָפִיר מֵעִמּוֹ; וְלֹא-אֲשַׁקֵּר, בֶּאֱמוּנָתִי. 34 But My mercy will I not break off from him, nor will I be false to My faithfulness.   לה  לֹא-אֲחַלֵּל בְּרִיתִי; וּמוֹצָא שְׂפָתַי, לֹא אֲשַׁנֶּה. 35 My covenant will I not profane, nor alter that which is gone out of My lips.   לו  אַחַת, נִשְׁבַּעְתִּי בְקָדְשִׁי: אִם-לְדָוִד אֲכַזֵּב. 36 Once have I sworn by My holiness: Surely I will not be false unto David;   לז  זַרְעוֹ, לְעוֹלָם יִהְיֶה; וְכִסְאוֹ כַשֶּׁמֶשׁ נֶגְדִּי. 37 His seed shall endure for ever, and his throne as the sun before Me"



All throughout Jesus' teachings, Jesus calls God "Father", both his Father, and our (those who follow him) Father.

Peace and God bless you

John 20 (NIV) - I boldened some.

"11 Now Mary stood outside the tomb crying. As she wept, she bent over to look into the tomb 12 and saw two angels in white, seated where Jesus’ body had been, one at the head and the other at the foot.
13 They asked her, “Woman, why are you crying?”
   “They have taken my Lord away,” she said, “and I don’t know where they have put him.” 14 At this, she turned around and saw Jesus standing there, but she did not realize that it was Jesus.
15 He asked her, “Woman, why are you crying? Who is it you are looking for?”
   Thinking he was the gardener, she said, “Sir, if you have carried him away, tell me where you have put him, and I will get him.”
16 Jesus said to her, “Mary.”
   She turned toward him and cried out in Aramaic, “Rabboni!” (which means “Teacher”).
17 Jesus said, “Do not hold on to me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father. Go instead to my brothers and tell them, ‘I am ascending to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.’”
18 Mary Magdalene went to the disciples with the news: “I have seen the Lord!” And she told them that he had said these things to her."

Edited by Christianlady, 06 March 2012 - 02:21 PM.


#3 eThErEaL

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Posted 06 March 2012 - 02:22 PM

Its interesting what Frithjof Schuon says about such canonical prayers in relation to the other forms of prayers:

"The most elementary mode of orison—of contact between man and
God—is no doubt prayer in the most ordinary sense of the word,
that is, the direct expression of the individual, of his desires and
fears, his hopes and gratitude. This prayer, however, is less perfect
than canonical prayer, which has a universal character by virtue of
the fact that God is its author and that the reciting subject is not
a particular individual, but man as such, the human species; thus
canonical prayer contains nothing that does not concern man, every
man, and this is as much as to say that it includes “eminently” or
in addition all possible individual prayers; it can even render them
unnecessary, and in fact the Revelations permit or recommend
individual prayer, but do not impose it. Canonical prayer shows its
universality and timeless value by being expressed very often in the
first person plural and also by its preference for using a sacred or
liturgical and therefore symbolically universal language, so that it is
impossible for whoever recites it not to pray for all and in all."

--Prayer Fashions Man, Frithjof Schuon

#4 Lanatin

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Posted 06 March 2012 - 02:27 PM

Codex Sinaiticus has made me very doubtful about the origin of the Lord's prayer, it's a shame there are those who are so deluded to believe Prophet Muhammad heard this prayer when there was no arabic translation of the gospels during his ministry; if there were any liturgical manuals being recited out loud during the Prophet's travels to Syria the language of the liturgy would have been either syriac or greek. And as the Arabs were mostly illiterate and had no insitutionalised education, the Prophet evidently wouldn't have had a clue what they were saying as he was an arab.
ÙáãäÇ ÇäÝÓäÇ

#5 Ruq

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Posted 06 March 2012 - 04:31 PM

Yes, i dont think its proof they the Prophet(saw) 'copied' Christians. The Prophet(saw) taught from the same source as Jesus(as), so it makes sense that they would have such fundemental similaries and some of these would survive in Christian scripture.

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#6 Lanatin

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Posted 06 March 2012 - 04:44 PM

View Post~Ruqaya, on 06 March 2012 - 04:31 PM, said:

Yes, i dont think its proof they the Prophet(saw) 'copied' Christians. The Prophet(saw) taught from the same source as Jesus(as), so it makes sense that they would have such fundemental similaries and some of these would survive in Christian scripture.

Indeed, the Quran constantly praises the common truth and divine origin of all monotheistic faiths. I'm just a bit cheesed off at the annoying preachers who are endlessly spamming shiachat with long quotes from the Bible that tend to be completely irrelevant to the thread.

Edited by La'nat Ma Man, 06 March 2012 - 04:44 PM.

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#7 Khadim uz Zahra

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Posted 06 March 2012 - 05:17 PM

View PostLa, on 06 March 2012 - 04:44 PM, said:

Indeed, the Quran constantly praises the common truth and divine origin of all monotheistic faiths. I'm just a bit cheesed off at the annoying preachers who are endlessly spamming shiachat with long quotes from the Bible that tend to be completely irrelevant to the thread.

LMM, cool down - as long as the person is nice and mannered (which, indeed, is the case here), then no need to get hostile or angry.

#8 ateef

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Posted 07 March 2012 - 04:36 AM

Quote

Hello Ruqaya's Amal,

It is interesting the similarities. It is very possible that Muhammad heard the Lord's prayer from Christians.

*{Your Companion is neither astray nor being misled. Nor does he say [aught] of [his own] desire. It is no less than inspiration sent down to him. He was taught by One Mighty in power.}* (An-Najm 53:2–5)

*{And thou wast not [able] to recite a Book before this [Book came] nor art thou [able] to transcribe it with thy right hand: in that case indeed would the talkers of vanities have doubted. Nay here are signs self-evident in the hearts of those endowed with knowledge: and none but the unjust reject Our signs.}* (Al-`Ankabut 29:48–49).

Nothing was Copied,But yes The Almighty One Lord,Your Lord My Lord, Updated you , To Guide The Whole Mankind , And to free them From Errors.

What do you do in today's technology..

You use Windows 98 (Children Of Israel)

Then Comes Windows Xp (People Of the Book) You update yourself

Then At the End came Windows 7 (Submitters) You should update yourself right...But ALAS some people prefer not to get updated and move on....

Windows 7=Advocate = Counselor = Comforter = Spirit of truth = Holy Spirit


This world has always been about updates...Seek The truth


They say Breathen Unto thee refers to Prophet Esa...

Why do not they seek the truth...Even a Five year old would accept just for the common sense , Prophet Muhammedh and Prophet Musa Both the Names Start With Letter " M "

#9 ateef

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Posted 07 March 2012 - 04:38 AM

View PostLa, on 06 March 2012 - 04:44 PM, said:

Indeed, the Quran constantly praises the common truth and divine origin of all monotheistic faiths. I'm just a bit cheesed off at the annoying preachers who are endlessly spamming shiachat with long quotes from the Bible that tend to be completely irrelevant to the thread.


They Just Copy Paste the Things,, Nor they Read the Start , Before the Verses,, and after the verses,,

They Themselves do not go through th whole matter....Ask them to be brief....Never shall they be...its better for you to find your ILM...and continue

#10 Christianlady

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Posted 07 March 2012 - 12:25 PM

View PostLa, on 06 March 2012 - 04:44 PM, said:

Indeed, the Quran constantly praises the common truth and divine origin of all monotheistic faiths. I'm just a bit cheesed off at the annoying preachers who are endlessly spamming shiachat with long quotes from the Bible that tend to be completely irrelevant to the thread.

Hello La'nat Ma Man,

Do you think that the Christians in Arabia during the time when Muhammad was alive did not know the Lord's prayer and thus did not tell anyone about what Jesus taught? (It doesn't matter what language... the meaning is the same, so if one understands by God's grace the meaning and can say and/or write it in one's own language, that is what is important.)

Peace and God bless you

View PostKhadim uz Zahra, on 06 March 2012 - 05:17 PM, said:

LMM, cool down - as long as the person is nice and mannered (which, indeed, is the case here), then no need to get hostile or angry.

Hello Khadim uz Zahra,

Thank you. :)

Peace and God bless you

#11 Khadim uz Zahra

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Posted 07 March 2012 - 02:47 PM

(bismillah)

In The Name of Allah (SWT) , The Most Beneficent, The Most Merciful.

View PostChristianlady, on 07 March 2012 - 12:25 PM, said:

Hello La'nat Ma Man,

Do you think that the Christians in Arabia during the time when Muhammad was alive did not know the Lord's prayer and thus did not tell anyone about what Jesus taught? (It doesn't matter what language... the meaning is the same, so if one understands by God's grace the meaning and can say and/or write it in one's own language, that is what is important.) Peace and God bless you

Hello Khadim uz Zahra,

Thank you. :)

Peace and God bless you

Firstly, there were not much Christians in the city the Prophet of Allah (pbuh) had lived most of his life in - Mecca - so he would not have had much exposure to Christianity in Arabic, or Arabia. Therefore, LMM's point also stands as valid.

Secondly, even if we assume that what you are saying is the truth, this does not, in anyway, shape or form, prove that he "stole" this prayer from Christians. I, actually, find it quite hypocritical that when Jesus (as) gives the same teachings as Moses (as) , Christians will call that "having the same source" but, when Prophet Muhammed (pbuh) does the same, he is called "the thief" - NAU'THOBILLAH! If we are going to infer from a simple similarity between a chapter of the Quran and a prayer taught by Jesus (as) that Prophet Muhammed (pbuh) "stole" from the Christians, then I think we should also do the same for Jesus (as) , when his teachings are very similar to Moses' (as).

Thank you for your last comments! :D

Insha'Allah, I have been helpful, clear and objective in my reasoning and have not hurt anyone! :D

Edited by Khadim uz Zahra, 07 March 2012 - 02:49 PM.


#12 Christianlady

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Posted 08 March 2012 - 11:01 AM

View PostKhadim uz Zahra, on 07 March 2012 - 02:47 PM, said:

(bismillah)

In The Name of Allah (SWT) , The Most Beneficent, The Most Merciful.



Firstly, there were not much Christians in the city the Prophet of Allah (pbuh) had lived most of his life in - Mecca - so he would not have had much exposure to Christianity in Arabic, or Arabia. Therefore, LMM's point also stands as valid.

Hello Khadim uz Zahra,

Do you believe that Muhammad did not talk to the relatively few Christians in or visiting Arabia concerning what they believed? One thing I do believe however is that most of the Christians in Arabia at that time were more Christian in tradition, rather then Christian heart and soul who sought God and studied what they believed and why.


Quote

Secondly, even if we assume that what you are saying is the truth, this does not, in anyway, shape or form, prove that he "stole" this prayer from Christians.


I am sorry but where did I say Muhammad stole the prayer? It is obvious that Muhammad did not teach his followers the same teachings as Jesus taught his followers, although some of his teachings are similar, such as caring for the poor. Secondly, praying the prayer Jesus taught his disciples is by no means stealing it. It would have been wonderful if Muhammad had taught his followers the prayer that Jesus taught to his disciples!!! Why Muhammad did not learn how to read and write, and did not study the Tanakh and the New Testament, praying and asking God for wisdom to understand them, is a question I have. So, why did Muhammad not learn how to read and write? Why did Muhammad not learn Hebrew and not study the Tanakh? Why did Muhammad not learn how to read/understand Greek and study the New Testament?  From what I understand, Muhammad had the mental capacity to learn how to read and how to learn other languages, no? The prophets of the Jewish people, including Jesus, knew how to read and write. Jesus, by the way, studied in the temple as a youth, listening to the elders. Jesus read from the scroll of Isaiah, an earlier prophet, in a synogogue.

Luke 2 (NIV) - I boldened some.

" 41 Every year Jesus’ parents went to Jerusalem for the Festival of the Passover. 42 When he was twelve years old, they went up to the festival, according to the custom. 43 After the festival was over, while his parents were returning home, the boy Jesus stayed behind in Jerusalem, but they were unaware of it. 44 Thinking he was in their company, they traveled on for a day. Then they began looking for him among their relatives and friends. 45 When they did not find him, they went back to Jerusalem to look for him. 46 After three days they found him in the temple courts, sitting among the teachers, listening to them and asking them questions. 47 Everyone who heard him was amazed at his understanding and his answers. 48 When his parents saw him, they were astonished. His mother said to him, “Son, why have you treated us like this? Your father and I have been anxiously searching for you.”
   49 “Why were you searching for me?” he asked. “Didn’t you know I had to be in my Father’s house?”[Or be about my Father’s business 50 But they did not understand what he was saying to them.
51 Then he went down to Nazareth with them and was obedient to them. But his mother treasured all these things in her heart. 52 And Jesus grew in wisdom and stature, and in favor with God and man. "


Luke 4 (NIV) - I boldened some.

" 14 Jesus returned to Galilee in the power of the Spirit, and news about him spread through the whole countryside. 15 He was teaching in their synagogues, and everyone praised him.
16 He went to Nazareth, where he had been brought up, and on the Sabbath day he went into the synagogue, as was his custom. He stood up to read, 17 and the scroll of the prophet Isaiah was handed to him. Unrolling it, he found the place where it is written:
   18 “The Spirit of the Lord is on me,
   because he has anointed me
   to proclaim good news to the poor.
He has sent me to proclaim freedom for the prisoners
   and recovery of sight for the blind,
to set the oppressed free,
   19 to proclaim the year of the Lord’s favor.”[Isaiah 61:1,2 (see Septuagint); Isaiah 58:6]

20 Then he rolled up the scroll, gave it back to the attendant and sat down. The eyes of everyone in the synagogue were fastened on him. 21 He began by saying to them, “Today this scripture is fulfilled in your hearing.”
22 All spoke well of him and were amazed at the gracious words that came from his lips. “Isn’t this Joseph’s son?” they asked.
23 Jesus said to them, “Surely you will quote this proverb to me: ‘Physician, heal yourself!’ And you will tell me, ‘Do here in your hometown what we have heard that you did in Capernaum.’”
   24 “Truly I tell you,” he continued, “no prophet is accepted in his hometown. 25 I assure you that there were many widows in Israel in Elijah’s time, when the sky was shut for three and a half years and there was a severe famine throughout the land. 26 Yet Elijah was not sent to any of them, but to a widow in Zarephath in the region of Sidon. 27 And there were many in Israel with leprosy[The Greek word traditionally translated leprosy was used for various diseases affecting the skin.] in the time of Elisha the prophet, yet not one of them was cleansed—only Naaman the Syrian.”
28 All the people in the synagogue were furious when they heard this. 29 They got up, drove him out of the town, and took him to the brow of the hill on which the town was built, in order to throw him off the cliff. 30 But he walked right through the crowd and went on his way."



Quote

I, actually, find it quite hypocritical that when Jesus (as) gives the same teachings as Moses (as) , Christians will call that "having the same source" but, when Prophet Muhammed (pbuh) does the same, he is called "the thief" -


The reason you find it hypocritical is because you do not understand the following crucially important differences:
1. Jesus did not say that the Tanakh was corrupted. Jesus claimed that he fulfills the Scripture God gave to the children of Israel. Jesus quoted the Tanakh. Jesus, a Jewish man, descendant of King David, followed the commands God gave to the Israelites through Moses. Did Muhammad follow the commands that God gave to the Israelites through Moses? Muhammad, however, claimed that the Scripture God gave to the Jewish people was corrupted.
2. All of the prophets that God gave to the children of Israel, including Moses, Samuel, David, Nathan, Elijah, Elisha, Isaiah, Jeremiah, Daniel, Hosea, Ezekiel, Zechariah, and Malachi, are a connection, a network - part of the family of the children of Israel. They knew the Law that God gave to the people, and they cared for their people, the children of Israel. They were not Greeks, Arabs,  English... they were children of Israel, descendants of Israel, and they knew their history, their people, and God used them to reveal messages, both warnings and prophesies. to the children of Israel. Jesus is also a child of Israel. Muhammad is not.

If you truly understood the important differences above, you will see why many Jewish people and why most Christians who study the origins/root of Christian beliefs, do not accept Muhammad as a true prophet from God. This is not an insult; it is mere fact. It is a very important concept that Christians believe that the Scripture God gave to the children of Israel is true and has not been corrupted. The allegation of Muhammad against the Scripture (the claim it was corrupted) which sad to say he never even read, is not accepted by Jewish people and Christians (both Gentile and Jewish) to be true.

Quote

NAU'THOBILLAH! If we are going to infer from a simple similarity between a chapter of the Quran and a prayer taught by Jesus (as) that Prophet Muhammed (pbuh) "stole" from the Christians, then I think we should also do the same for Jesus (as) , when his teachings are very similar to Moses' (as).

I wish that Muhammad had read and learned the teachings of Jesus, and the teachings of Moses!!! If he had, maybe history would have been radically changed. Jesus did indeed teach the teachings of Moses, and went even more profound into the whys and the roots of the teachings God gave to Moses. Jesus did not say that the Scripture was corrupted by anybody, but rather that he (Jesus) fulfills the Scripture!!! :)

Matthew 5 (NIV) - I boldened some of Jesus' teachings.

"   13 “You are the salt of the earth. But if the salt loses its saltiness, how can it be made salty again? It is no longer good for anything, except to be thrown out and trampled underfoot.
   14 “You are the light of the world. A town built on a hill cannot be hidden. 15 Neither do people light a lamp and put it under a bowl. Instead they put it on its stand, and it gives light to everyone in the house. 16 In the same way, let your light shine before others, that they may see your good deeds and glorify your Father in heaven.
The Fulfillment of the Law

    17 “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. 18 For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. 19 Therefore anyone who sets aside one of the least of these commands and teaches others accordingly will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20 For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven.
Murder

    21 “You have heard that it was said to the people long ago, ‘You shall not murder,[Exodus 20:13] and anyone who murders will be subject to judgment.’ 22 But I tell you that anyone who is angry with a brother or sister[The Greek word for brother or sister (adelphos) refers here to a fellow disciple, whether man or woman; also in verse 23.][Some manuscripts brother or sister without cause] will be subject to judgment. Again, anyone who says to a brother or sister, ‘Raca,’[An Aramaic term of contempt] is answerable to the court. And anyone who says, ‘You fool!’ will be in danger of the fire of hell."


Quote

Thank you for your last comments! :D

Your welcome :)


Quote

Insha'Allah, I have been helpful, clear and objective in my reasoning and have not hurt anyone! :D

I understand that some Muslims are incredibly senstive against anyone believing differently than what they believe, but I hope that people understand that this is a comparative religion section, and obviously Christians do not believe the same as Muslims in many areas. I apologize if my beliefs offend anyone. However, please keep in mind that Christians, as well as Jewish Orthodox people, have reason to be offended by what Muslims believe as well. God is Judge though, and may we discuss peacefully and respectfully even though we obviously disagree.  For example, even though you believe differently than I do concerning Jesus, I will never ever hurt a Muslim for believing differently than me. Why? Because God is the Judge, not me. And Jesus, my Master, has commanded his followers (which includes me) to love everyone.

Peace and God bless you

#13 Son of Placid

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Posted 09 March 2012 - 10:30 PM

It would seem to me that if we worship the same God He would give us similar instructions. Maybe not the exact same wording but it probably sounds better in Arabic.

#14 Ya Aba 3abdillah

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Posted 10 March 2012 - 01:55 AM

Don't see how they are similar, they're nothing alike lol

شبعا، هونين، ابل القمح، قدس، المالكية، تربيخا، صلحا، النبي يوشع - القدس


SHAME on the those who exploit the tragedy of Her Majesty Fatimah Al-Zahraa' (as) to create hate and sectarian discord! You are a SHAME to Her, to Her Father and to Islam!
Ya Shahid Al-Sadr - You lived like Muhammad. You fought like Ali. And you died like Hussain!
Save the Middle East & Declare Jihad Against Sectarianism!

#15 ateef

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Posted 10 March 2012 - 03:45 AM

Peace be WIth You

Before This Turns Out Something Very Big,

Let me tell you Ms Christianlady....

Yes Iƒ you think its similar, thats your understanding....But yes its true there are some things which are very forbidden...

The Most important is you saying the Prayer Infront Of an IDOL or IDOLS...

Desist from it...Good For you...So Miss Christain Lady...

Do you Desist from IDOLS from today????

Or do you wan me to post some of your own Bible and Torah Scriptures....To prove this....


Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.

18 For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished.

Holy Quran

In the Name Of Allah,The Most Merciful, Most Compassionate

And I (Prophet Esa (Peace be with him) have come confirming that which was before me of the Taurat (Torah), and to make lawful to you part of what was forbidden to you, and I have come to you with a proof from your Lord. So fear Allah and obey me.

51. Truly! Allah is my Lord and your Lord, so worship Him (Alone). This is the Straight Path.



Do you know which is the BOOK FROM WHICH EVEN THE LEAST STROKE OF PEN NOR EVEN THE SMALLEST LETTER HAS DISAPPEARED ???

1.Enjeel

2.Torah

Or

3.Quran

If ye search truthful with purity...So shall you find the truth by the Grace of Allah

Edited by ateef, 10 March 2012 - 03:50 AM.


#16 ateef

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Posted 10 March 2012 - 04:04 AM

Christians believe that the Scripture God gave to the children of Israel is true and has not been corrupted. The allegation of Muhammad against the Scripture (the claim it was corrupted) which sad to say he never even read, is not accepted by Jewish people and Christians (both Gentile and Jewish) to be true.

YOU KNOW WHAT CHRISTIAN LADY

WHEN PROPHET MUSA CAME  HE DEFIED THE PAGANS THE EGYPTIANS WHO PRACTICED IDOLATERY AND

WHEN PROPHET ESA CAME HIS CHALLENGE WAS TO DEFY THE PAGANISM AND ADULTERATED RELIGION OF SOME HIGH PROFILE CORRUPTED  JEWS. HENCE HIS OWN RECIEVED HIM NOT

AND WHEN THE SEAL OF PROPHETS CAME PROPHET MUHAMMADH HIS CHALLENGE WAS TO DELIVER THE LAW TO PAGAN ARABS, CHRISTIANS WHO WERE CORRUPTED BELIEF BY ROMANS...
AND ALSO THE JEWS WHO WERE CORRUPTED...


AND AS YOU CAN SEE THE SENSE IN MY POST..BIRDS OF THE SAME FEATHER FLOCK TOGETHER...

#17 Son of Placid

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Posted 10 March 2012 - 12:42 PM

View Postateef, on 10 March 2012 - 04:04 AM, said:

The allegation of Muhammad against the Scripture (the claim it was corrupted) which sad to say he never even read, is not accepted by Jewish people and Christians (both Gentile and Jewish) to be true.

Do you ever wonder why Jews and Christians don't accept Muhammad's allegation?

Muhammad: Your scriptures are corrupt!
Jews/Christians: What's corrupt?
Muhammad: Don't know, I never read it.

#18 Khadim uz Zahra

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Posted 10 March 2012 - 02:04 PM

(bismillah)

In The Name of Allah (SWT) , The Most Beneficent

View PostChristianlady, on 08 March 2012 - 11:01 AM, said:

Hello Khadim uz Zahra,

Thank you for replying! :D

Let's go along your line of thought. Even if we say that the Prophet (peace be upon him and his progeny) did interact with the Christians and, therefore, was a false Prophet, I still don't understand why he would decide to preach the Jueo-Christian teachings. After all, Christians and Jews would have constituted of a very small - and insignificant - minority on the Arabian peninsula; ergo, it would not make sense for him to take their teachings, especially if we consider how many hardships (like for example, an economic boycott for three years which crippled his tribe and the constant persecution of himself, his family and followers) he had to go through.

Why would a false Prophet ever propagate these teachings when there was nothing in it for him? Why go through so much trouble when he could have just become one of the priests of the temple or, as the pagans had once offered, why did he not become their ruler, get wealth or women from them? Why would a false Prophet reject all these and teach that which did not benefit him?

Coming to the question of the Prophet (peace be upon him and his progeny) 's alleged illiteracy, I think you need to consider the fact that there are two fundamental divisions in Islam: Shias and Sunnis. What you are stating is the Sunni belief and Shias, for the most part, believe he was able to write but this was not due to learning from someone - he was unschooled, not unlettered! We believe that, yes, he could read and write but this was taught to him by Allah (SWT) but he never used these abilities because, like many today do, people would doubt his message and claim that they are not his teachings but that he copied them! This is why he never read or wrote.

Let me ask a simple question: before Moses (as) did the Children of Israel not follow different rules? In fact, don't Christians today differ in their rulings from the Jews? Before Abraham (as) there were no Jews or Children of Israel to talk of so did those people - and the Prophets (peace be upon them all) assigned to them, such as Prophet Noah (as) - not have any laws? Did they not have any instructions from God? Obviously, they did but these were not the same as the laws of Moses (as) . When Moses (as) came, the old laws were abrogated and, instead, the news laws he had brought took their place.

Similarly, when Prophet Muhammed (peace be upon him and his progeny) came, the laws he brought were now the "current edition" to be followed and the older laws had become obsolete.

Perhaps, a simple answer as to why Jesus (as) did not condemn the Scriptures of the Jews was because, at that time, they had not been corrupted. After all, Jews did not believe in a concept of Trinity as Christians do. Moreover, he also did condemn the Jews for the wrong they were doing. Similarly, Prophet Muhammed (peace be upon him and his progeny) condemned those beliefs and practices of the Jews and Christians where they had deviated.

No, you did not hurt or offend me and if I have offended you the slightest bit, then I am extremely sorry. :)

View PostSon of Placid, on 10 March 2012 - 12:42 PM, said:

Do you ever wonder why Jews and Christians don't accept Muhammad's allegation? Muhammad: Your scriptures are corrupt! Jews/Christians: What's corrupt? Muhammad: Don't know, I never read it.

The same question has also been asked by Christian Lady so let's clear this up.

The Prophet (peace be upon him and his progeny) , as I have said in my answer to Christian Lady above, did not read or write deliberately because this would make some doubt his message. Secondly, he did not need to read them because his source of knowledge was Allah (SWT) and, therefore, he did not need to learn anything from anyone else. He knew all that was in the Bible - the original Injeel, as well as the current version, which Muslims believe is not the original book sent to Jesus (as) - but this was not from reading or learning from someone; he had learnt it from God!

I know you will say "oh but how do we know that what he said was from God?"

This is exactly why I believe that we should prove his Prophethood because once that is done, whatever he says becomes binding on us and it will be established that what he says is from God.

Insha'Allah, I have been helpful, clear and objective in my reasoning and have not hurt anyone! :D

May Allah (SWT) bless us all, our families and loved ones, guide us all to The Straight Path with His Perfect Guidance and may He, The Forgiver of Sins and The Oft-Forgiving, forgive all our sins for, verily, there is neither any respite nor any refuge for the sinners, except in Allah (SWT) .

#19 ateef

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Posted 11 March 2012 - 12:25 AM

View PostSon of Placid, on 10 March 2012 - 12:42 PM, said:

Do you ever wonder why Jews and Christians don't accept Muhammad's allegation?

Muhammad: Your scriptures are corrupt!
Jews/Christians: What's corrupt?
Muhammad: Don't know, I never read it.

LISTEN ... THE WORDS HAVE BEEN ALTERED...AND PLACES CHANGED AND INTERPRETED WRONGLY

LISTEN...The meaning is that they interpret the word wrongly

"WORD " OF GOD BECAME SON OF GOD

DO YOU STILL THINK YOUR SCRIPTURES ARE RELIABLE AFTER THIS

ARAMAIC> SYRIAC>HEBREW>LATIN>GREEK> ENGLISH

THIS ARE THE LANGUAGES THROUGH WHICH THE SCRIPTURES HAVE GONE BY

THINK LOGICALLY...THAT TOO SO MANY TRANSLATIONS....

AND THE BOOK WHICH YOU READ NOW IS THE BOOK>>>WHICH IS A MIX OF ALL DIFFERNET TEXTS>>>SOME FROM HERE SOME FROM THERE>>>

EVERYTHING IS ACCORDING TO THIS>>>ACCORDING TO THAT

NONE EXISTS WITH ACCORDING TO PROPHET ESA

THE ORIGINAL ENJEEL LOST..,.OR KEPT HIDDEN DELIBERATELY

YET THERE IS TRUTH IN YOUR SCRIPTURES REMAINING BY THE GRACE OF ALMIGHTY...

YOU MUST SEEK WITH TRUTH....

#20 ateef

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Posted 11 March 2012 - 12:59 AM

AND ALSO CORRUPTED :shifty:

#21 Son of Placid

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Posted 11 March 2012 - 01:49 AM

Ever get a headache typing that loud?


WHAT ENGEEL???

#22 ateef

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Posted 11 March 2012 - 04:42 AM

View PostSon of Placid, on 11 March 2012 - 01:49 AM, said:

Ever get a headache typing that loud?


WHAT ENGEEL???

ENJEEL IS THE TRUE GOSPEL...

THE ORIGINAL BIBLE

NOT ALTERED OR TAMPERED>>>>NOT A COLLECTION OF DIFFERENT BOOKS>>>STRAIGHT FROM PROPHET ESA(PEACE BE UPON HIM)

#23 Khadim uz Zahra

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Posted 11 March 2012 - 07:05 AM

View PostSon of Placid, on 11 March 2012 - 01:49 AM, said:

Ever get a headache typing that loud? WHAT ENGEEL???

The Injeel is, according to Muslims, one of the four Divine, Revealed books, which was revealed to Jesus (as) . Unlike the Bible, which according to Christians is an "inspired" book, this was a revelation to Jesus (as) directly, just like the Quran for Prophet Muhammed (pbuh) or the Torah to Moses (as) .

#24 Ya Aba 3abdillah

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Posted 11 March 2012 - 08:03 AM

View Postateef, on 11 March 2012 - 12:25 AM, said:

LISTEN ... THE WORDS HAVE BEEN ALTERED...AND PLACES CHANGED AND INTERPRETED WRONGLY

Stop typing in Caps-Lock please, it's against forum rules. Failure to do so will end up in warnings and eventual account suspension. Thanks for your co-operation.

شبعا، هونين، ابل القمح، قدس، المالكية، تربيخا، صلحا، النبي يوشع - القدس


SHAME on the those who exploit the tragedy of Her Majesty Fatimah Al-Zahraa' (as) to create hate and sectarian discord! You are a SHAME to Her, to Her Father and to Islam!
Ya Shahid Al-Sadr - You lived like Muhammad. You fought like Ali. And you died like Hussain!
Save the Middle East & Declare Jihad Against Sectarianism!

#25 Son of Placid

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Posted 11 March 2012 - 01:17 PM

There are a lot of things in this world that are "according to Muslims" and nobody else, the Engeel being one of them. There is no evidence Jesus ever carried a book, nor was it ever mentioned anywhere outside of the Quran. It is mentioned 9 times in the Quran and never is it actually referred to as a book.
If Muslims insist it is a book then they are also insisting that God cannot perseve His word.
I see this as a case of Muslims corrupting Islam in the same way Christians have corrupted Christianity.

There's more corruption in Ateef's post than in past scriptures.



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