12 replies to this topic

[Haydar Husayn]

In the name of God, the Beneficent, the Merciful.

Peace be upon you.


The following passages are all taken from the NIV Bible.


James 1:13  ¹³ When tempted, no one should say, “God is tempting me.” For God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does he tempt anyone; (NIV)


Mark 1:12-13

¹² At once the Spirit sent him out into the wilderness, ¹³ and he was in the wilderness forty days, being tempted [or tested] by Satan. He was with the wild animals, and angels attended him.


Matthew 4

¹ Then Jesus was led by the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted [or tested] by the devil. ² After fasting forty days and forty nights, he was hungry. ³ The tempter came to him and said, “If you are the Son of God, tell these stones to become bread.”
⁴ Jesus answered, “It is written: ‘Man shall not live on bread alone, but on every word that comes from the mouth of God.’”
⁵ Then the devil took him to the holy city and had him stand on the highest point of the temple. ⁶ “If you are the Son of God,” he said, “throw yourself down. For it is written:  “‘He will command his angels concerning you, and they will lift you up in their hands, so that you will not strike your foot against a stone.'”  ⁷ Jesus answered him, “It is also written: ‘Do not put the Lord your God to the test.’”
⁸ Again, the devil took him to a very high mountain and showed him all the kingdoms of the world and their splendor. ⁹ “All this I will give you,” he said, “if you will bow down and worship me.”  ¹⁰ Jesus said to him, “Away from me, Satan! For it is written: ‘Worship the Lord your God, and serve him only.’” ¹¹ Then the devil left him, and angels came and attended him.


Luke 4

¹ Jesus, full of the Holy Spirit, left the Jordan and was led by the Spirit into the wilderness, ² where for forty days he was tempted [or tested] by the devil. He ate nothing during those days, and at the end of them he was hungry. ³ The devil said to him, “If you are the Son of God, tell this stone to become bread.”  ⁴ Jesus answered, “It is written: ‘Man shall not live on bread alone.’”  ⁵ The devil led him up to a high place and showed him in an instant all the kingdoms of the world. ⁶ And he said to him, “I will give you all their authority and splendor; it has been given to me, and I can give it to anyone I want to. ⁷ If you worship me, it will all be yours.”  ⁸ Jesus answered, “It is written: ‘Worship the Lord your God and serve him only.’” ⁹ The devil led him to Jerusalem and had him stand on the highest point of the temple. “If you are the Son of God,” he said, “throw yourself down from here. ¹⁰ For it is written: “‘He will command his angels concerning you to guard you carefully; ¹¹ they will lift you up in their hands, so that you will not strike your foot against a stone.’”  ¹² Jesus answered, “It is said: ‘Do not put the Lord your God to the test.’” ¹³ When the devil had finished all this tempting, he left him until an opportune time.



This question is addressed to Trinitarian Christians. Since Jesus was God incarnate, why did Satan try to tempt him? Surely he would have known Jesus was God, and would also have known that God cannot be tempted? Why try to do something you know is impossible?

[titumir]

Well, lots of evidence in the Bible makes more sense to a Muslim than Christians. These passages you posted easily agree with the Islamic view of Jesus/Isa and not with the Christian view.

[Haydar Husayn]

Any ideas?

[Rasul]

Very Interesting, I have also wondered about that....

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Again, the devil took him to a very high mountain and showed him all the kingdoms of the world and their splendor. ⁹ “All this I will give you,” he said, “if you will bow down and worship me.” ¹⁰

Seems like Devil (la) was really stupid? If 'Jesus' is 'God' then he already owns that all....  right?

[Haydar Husayn]

Any Christians going to try to answer this?

[Son of Placid]

[placid]

Hi Haydar,

Quote from Post 1:
James 1:13 ¹³ When tempted, no one should say, “God is tempting me.” For God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does he tempt anyone; (NIV)


Then you give verses which say that Jesus was tempted, by Satan.


Does the devil not tempt all of us? Have you read Surah 7 which tells how the devil temps us: from the front, from behind, from all sides, in secret, when we least expect it --- these are temptations to do evil, are they not?


James said,   For God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does he tempt anyone

God does not deal in the realm of evil, however, God does 'test us', --- but it is not to lead us into evil, but to strengthen us..


Your thought that Jesus is God, --- you don't really believe that do you?

God was in heaven when Jesus was on earth, was He not?

Jesus resisted the devil in the wilderness and said:
"Man shall not live by bread alone but by every word that proceeds out of the mouth of God."

God tests us, --- it is the devil that tempts us.

--- James went on to say in James 1:
¹³ Let no one say when he is tempted, “I am tempted by God”; for God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does He Himself tempt anyone.
¹⁴ But each one is tempted when he is drawn away by his own desires and enticed.
¹⁵ Then, when desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown, brings forth death.
,

I wonder if you ever thought of how the 'cycle of sin' works?

--- Each man is drawn away (from what is right) by his own desires, and enticed (by the devil)

--- Then when desire (joined with the object of that desire) come together, --- there is 'conception.'

--- And it (the conception) gives birth to sin. --- (If sin is not repented of, but allowed to continue), when it is fullgrown, it brings forth death. --- (First spiritual, then perhaps physical death as well.)

--- That is the devil's aim and purpose, to lead us away from our relationship with God, --- or to keep us uneducated about God.

[Haydar Husayn]

Of course I don't believe Jesus (peace be upon him) was God, but this question is addressed to those people who do believe he was God.

[placid]

Hi Haydar,

Quote: Of course I don't believe Jesus (peace be upon him) was God, but this question is addressed to those people who do believe he was God.


Response: --- I bypassed this before, because you were wanting a response from a trinitarian.
--- Now, what would be your motive for wanting that? --- Did you want to ‘tempt’ someone to say something that you disagree with, --- so that you could criticize their faith, as they have learned it?

I believe you are a mature Muslim, so what is your perspective of God?

Some Muslims say ‘God is everywhere,’ --- so if you believe that, --- how do you explain it?

These are some interesting statements in Surah 50:
16.  It was We Who created man, and We know what dark suggestions his soul makes to him: for We are nearer to him than (his) jugular vein.
17. Behold, two (guardian angels) appointed to learn (his doings) learn (and noted them), one sitting on the right and one on the left.
18. Not a word does he utter but there is a sentinel by him, ready (to note it).

--- So is this God with each one of us, or are these some lowly angel ‘servants’ of God?

BTW, I believe in the ‘Three in Heaven,’ --- and I understand it much like Muhammad expresses it in Surah 4:
171. The Messiah, Jesus son of Mary, was only a Messenger of God, and His Word which He conveyed unto Mary, and a Spirit from Him. --- So believe in God and His messengers, and say not "Three" - Cease! (it is) better for you! – God  is only One God.

--- This explains that Jesus was not one of the Three, but that He was a Messenger or Servant of God, as it says in the next verse:
172. The Messiah will never scorn to be a slave (Servant) unto God, nor will the favored angels

--- What is different about Jesus, --- rather than having, angels on His shoulders, He was indwelt by the Word (Logos) which ‘was conveyed unto Mary,’ as mentioned in 4:171, and He also was ‘strengthened or supported by the Holy Spirit,’  Surah 2:87, 2:253, 5:110.
There are other verses on the Holy Spirit and Mary, 19:17, 21:91, 66:12. --- And other verses 16:02, 16:102, 58:22.
--- And the verse for Muhammad, 42:52.

Do you believe in the Three in heaven as Muhammad explains it?

I wonder what are your thoughts about the Holy Spirit of God, who is mentioned often in the Quran, but seldom talked about by Muslims?
It was the Holy Spirit that was with Jesus during the temptations in the wilderness, was it not?

Can we have a discussion on our understanding of God and His Holy Spirit?


Placid

[Haydar Husayn]

There are many things that could be discussed, but I made this thread for a specific purpose, and addressed to people with a specific set of beliefs, and would prefer it not to be derailed by going off on tangents.

I'm genuinly interested in knowing how mainstream trinitarians (who believe Jesus to be fully God) resolve this problem. Of course, if you don't believe Jesus to be God, then there is no issue at all.

[rotten_coconut]

Bro Haydar,

I know you directed your question to Trinitarian Christians.
In my opinion, they would probably say that due to the 2 natures of Christ (i.e. divinity & humanity, see http://en.wikipedia....ypostatic_union), the Satan tried to  tempted the his human nature.
But of course, let's wait for their answer.

[Haydar Husayn]

rotten_coconut, on 26 June 2012 - 11:27 AM, said:

Bro Haydar,

I know you directed your question to Trinitarian Christians.
In my opinion, they would probably say that due to the 2 natures of Christ (i.e. divinity & humanity, see http://en.wikipedia....ypostatic_union), the Satan tried to  tempted the his human nature.

Yeah, I'd guess this is what they might say, but all it does is show how ridiculous this concept it.

It's interesting that Satan does not show any indication that he is trying to tempt God Himself. Nor does Jesus seem to be very familiar with Satan, despite their presumable history in Heaven.

Something that is also worthy of note is that the Gospel with the highest Christology, the Gospel of John, is the only one of the four to not make mention of the Temptation of Christ. Perhaps it was because the author of that Gospel didn't think it fitted in very well with his rather more divine concept of Jesus.

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But of course, let's wait for their answer.

Yeah, still waiting...

[Son of Placid]

First you may have to find out how many trinitarians are on this site. Lately, most threads here are not that inviting