39 replies to this topic

[Ace Abbas]

Rasul, on 09 March 2012 - 01:16 PM, said:

This thread is about 'Salafi-Sunnis' Salafi Ahli Sunnah Wal Jammah

Salafis (or best known as Wahhabis) are not Sunnis. A lot of Sunnis condemn them due to their anthropomorphic belief. Some Sunni even say that these Wahhabis are kuffar because they believe in the Sky God (they believe that Allah is at sky). And some also say that Wahhabis are the enemies of Rasulullah SAW since they condemn sunnah to be bid'ah. Those Wahhabis reject Sufism because they say that Sufism is bid'ah while Sunnis accept Sufism as long as it is based on al-Qur'an and sunnah. So, they are technically out of the fold of Sunni. Shia must understand that Wahhabis and Sunnis are not the same.

[Rasul]

Ace Abbas, on 09 March 2012 - 01:26 PM, said:

Salafis (or best known as Wahhabis) are not Sunnis. A lot of Sunnis condemn them due to their anthropomorphic belief. Some Sunni even say that these Wahhabis are kuffar because they believe in the Sky God (they believe that Allah is at sky). And some also say that Wahhabis are the enemies of Rasulullah SAW since they condemn sunnah to be bid'ah. Those Wahhabis reject Sufism because they say that Sufism is bid'ah while Sunnis accept Sufism as long as it is based on al-Qur'an and sunnah. So, they are technically out of the fold of Sunni. Shia must understand that Wahhabis and Sunnis are not the same.

I agree with you but this is difficult when they use Ahli Sunnah's books and call them self 'Sunni' followers of 'Salaf as Salehin' and they are growing among sunnis people like zakir naik.... misguided many sunnis...

yes...  and they dont recognise people like you as sunnis...

Edited by Rasul, 09 March 2012 - 02:41 PM.

[shia4life669]

Ace Abbas, on 09 March 2012 - 01:26 PM, said:

Salafis (or best known as Wahhabis) are not Sunnis. A lot of Sunnis condemn them due to their anthropomorphic belief. Some Sunni even say that these Wahhabis are kuffar because they believe in the Sky God (they believe that Allah is at sky). And some also say that Wahhabis are the enemies of Rasulullah SAW since they condemn sunnah to be bid'ah. Those Wahhabis reject Sufism because they say that Sufism is bid'ah while Sunnis accept Sufism as long as it is based on al-Qur'an and sunnah. So, they are technically out of the fold of Sunni. Shia must understand that Wahhabis and Sunnis are not the same.

if their not why do many sunnis believe in their b.s some yemeni sunni came up to me and said you shia grow tails in the night seirously i wonder who told him that..???....

[Alejandro Sosa]

Allah swt speaking in the voice of Ali ibn Abi Talib is just as bad.

Ironic that shias (rightfully) attack sunnis for this but don't look at that in the same vein.

Edited by Alejandro Sosa, 09 March 2012 - 06:55 PM.

[Abu Muslim]

Ace Abbas, on 09 March 2012 - 01:26 PM, said:

Salafis (or best known as Wahhabis) are not Sunnis. A lot of Sunnis condemn them due to their anthropomorphic belief. Some Sunni even say that these Wahhabis are kuffar because they believe in the Sky God (they believe that Allah is at sky). And some also say that Wahhabis are the enemies of Rasulullah SAW since they condemn sunnah to be bid'ah. Those Wahhabis reject Sufism because they say that Sufism is bid'ah while Sunnis accept Sufism as long as it is based on al-Qur'an and sunnah. So, they are technically out of the fold of Sunni. Shia must understand that Wahhabis and Sunnis are not the same.

Do you realise that Sufism is on the decline and has been for a while? Majority of modern known Sunni speakers such as Zakir Naik, Bilal philips etc are from the Athari belief. The old sunni scholars such as the 4 imams of fiqh were upon the Athari belief. That is why you will find that Sunnis upon the Athari belief more often use traditional books by the classical known scholars of Ahlus Sunnah. The Sufis tend to just follow their local Molvi/Murshid/Pir.  Anyways, we Sunnis understand that those who do "la3na" on the companions are Rafidha, Rafidha are not the true Shias. True shias are those who dont curse companions.

Edited by Abu Muslim, 09 March 2012 - 07:03 PM.

[Replicant]

Alejandro Sosa, on 09 March 2012 - 06:54 PM, said:

Allah swt speaking in the voice of Ali ibn Abi Talib is just as bad.

Ironic that shias (rightfully) attack sunnis for this but don't look at that in the same vein.

That's not a fair comparison.

Allah (swt) creating the voice of Imam Ali and using it to communicate with the Prophet has no problems (whether you choose to believe it or not is another matter).
God created a voice, it doesn't mean He HAS a voice.
When Allah (swt) spoke to Musa , it didn't mean He had a voice. He created a voice.
There's a difference.

God having a tongue, teeth and smiling suggests that God has physical attributes. This is bad.

One scenario suggests that God created a voice (whatever voice that may be) to communicate.
The other suggests God actually has teeth, a tongue and smiles.
Unfair comparison.

Edited by Replicant, 09 March 2012 - 07:10 PM.

[Alejandro Sosa]

No it's very fair..u just choose to ignore it because you hold Ali in such high regard.

One could argue that the Ali voice is even more dangerous, because it makes people associate Ali with Allah in a shirk-ish way.

[Replicant]

Alejandro Sosa, on 09 March 2012 - 07:12 PM, said:

No it's very fair..u just choose to ignore it because you hold Ali in such high regard.

One could argue that the Ali voice is even more dangerous, because it makes people associate Ali with Allah in a shirk-ish way.

It would be problematic to say that it was Imam Ali who spoke to the Prophet , not Allah ÓÈÍÇäå æÊÚÇáì. That would be a problem for sure.
However, Allah (swt) CREATING a voice to communicate with the Prophet has no problems. He happened to create Imam Ali's voice because Imam Ali's voice used to comfort the Prophet .
No one is saying Imam Ali was up in the sky there speaking to the Prophet himself.

I would rather believe this scenario than believing my Lord having teeth and a tongue. One scenario shows God creating a voice (no problem), the other scenario shows God having dental features (problem).

Anyhow, I don't want to discuss that further as it's derailing the thread. I just wanted to point out that I didn't think the comparison worked, in my opinion.

[shia4life669]

Alejandro Sosa, on 09 March 2012 - 07:12 PM, said:

No it's very fair..u just choose to ignore it because you hold Ali in such high regard.

One could argue that the Ali voice is even more dangerous, because it makes people associate Ali with Allah in a shirk-ish way.

But imam Ali is a diffrent case cause he is Allah proof on his creation Allah puts his own attributes with in him to guide mankind. By the way it can be taken metaphoricaly.

[Inglip]

I am curious. Is there any proof that Allah spoke in the voice of Ali in the first place?

[Replicant]

Inglip, on 09 March 2012 - 08:04 PM, said:

I am curious. Is there any proof that Allah spoke in the voice of Ali in the first place?

There's a thread discussing it here:
http://www.shiachat....e-false-hadith/

[Alejandro Sosa]

according to brother Nader Zaveri who is quite knowledgable in hadiths, he says the hadith is weak.

[Inglip]

Quote

according to brother Nader Zaveri who is quite knowledgable in hadiths, he says the hadith is weak.

Good enough for me.

It disgusts me that some people here would rather accept the hadith, even though it is weak, for the sole reason that it illustrates a merit for Ali.

[macisaac]

Abu Muslim, on 09 March 2012 - 07:02 PM, said:

Do you realise that Sufism is on the decline and has been for a while? Majority of modern known Sunni speakers such as Zakir Naik, Bilal philips etc are from the Athari belief. The old sunni scholars such as the 4 imams of fiqh were upon the Athari belief. That is why you will find that Sunnis upon the Athari belief more often use traditional books by the classical known scholars of Ahlus Sunnah. The Sufis tend to just follow their local Molvi/Murshid/Pir.  Anyways, we Sunnis understand that those who do "la3na" on the companions are Rafidha, Rafidha are not the true Shias. True shias are those who dont curse companions.

I don't think you could really claim Abu Hanifa was an athari.  And from what I gather, there's still quite a few Hanafis out there..

[Ace Abbas]

Abu Muslim, on 09 March 2012 - 07:02 PM, said:

Anyways, we Sunnis understand that those who do "la3na" on the companions are Rafidha, Rafidha are not the true Shias. True shias are those who dont curse companions.

Sufism is alright as long as you stick to the al-Qur'an and sunnah. This is what Sheikh Abd al-Qadir al-Jailani RH said to his son; our tariqa (Qadiriyya) is of al-Qur'an and sunnah. I believe that the real Shias are the Zaydis. My shaykh told me that Twelverism was not founded by Imam Ja'far al-Sadiq RH, but it was founded by Shias shaykhs; Shaykh al-Kulayni, Shaykh as-Saduq, Shaykh al-Mufid and Shaykh al-Tusi.