A very popular theistic argument goes along the lines that without God, there would be no objective morality. There is objective morality, therefore God exists.
I think there hasn't been too much elaboration as why this is the case. I've been thinking about the issue, and I would say it comes to existence of morality and justice, and what is great and not, there has to be a correctness in all details to the issue for these to be real. I also then contend that humans are not correct in all details of greatness, morality and justice.
Yes we might almost all agree upon somethings being unmoral or somethings being moral, somethings being just and somethings being unjust, but we differ on other things and don't even have a solid opinion on the matter.
But there seems to be a need that is a correct view to all the things that involve morality, justice, and greatness, and when we begin to say there isn't, it put's question morality, justice, and greatness.
There is more to it, our view even if sometimes wrong, is not baseless. We have some basis to it. Our perspective however we might say is twisted when it's wrong. But what's it twisted from?
If morality was all within a human being, how can a person have a twisted view to a moral issue? What is he twisted from. There seems to have to be a universal moral reality that we are being twisted from. And when we are correct, what is this based upon? It seems again, it can't just be our inner thoughts, but there has to be a relationship with a reality that morality, justice, and greatness have an absolute reality.
Now I would go further that there is infinite degrees of possible moral highness, and part of morality is knowing the greatness of each stage, and what makes one greater then the other. What makes one person greater then another. We might not always know, but there has to be a reality to it.
It seems as well, all infinite stages must have a basis in a reality, like how our morality needs it. This again, follows from the idea that every detail of morality, justice, and greatness must have a correctness for morality, justice, and greatness to be true at all.
It seems when you think of it, the highest possible stage of greatness, morality, and justice, must have a reality as well. This just follows from contemplation.
That reality to me would be a being that is worthy of Worship.
Furthermore, it seems to be the case, that this is not a reality that can come to being, but must be eternal. If it was something that can just come into being, it would make morality, justice, and greatness arbitrary when it's not.
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Morality, Justice, Greatness
Started by
MysticKnight
, Feb 09 2012 12:12 AM
5 replies to this topic
#3 Guest_Jebreil_*
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Posted 10 February 2012 - 08:48 PM
iDevonian, on 10 February 2012 - 08:31 PM, said:
I enjoyed that one, though i dont believe it was ever truly concluded.
If it gives you any consolation, I think my argument was wrong - because it was metaphysical. Metaphysically, however, I think the argument was correct. But like I said, it doesn't matter, because the metaphysical method is mistaken.
Your contribution to that thread is admirable so far as it was based on science and commonsense, but there were bits which you also, probably subconsciously, let metaphysics dribble through. In my opinion, humbly expressed, those bits were not good, even metaphysically.
#4 Guest_Jebreil_*
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Posted 10 February 2012 - 09:42 PM
Maybe one day we'll both get the time.
Perhaps I should add, I provided the link here because Mysticknight's own attempt and conclusion are metaphysical. So, my old post would make sense and have some value. It's like two people discussing whether Aslan the Lion knows every detail about what goes in Narnia or not, while in fact being oblivious that there is no Aslan and there is no Narnia.
#5
Khadim uz Zahra
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Posted 07 March 2012 - 03:43 PM
Jebreil, on 10 February 2012 - 09:42 PM, said:
Maybe one day we'll both get the time. Perhaps I should add, I provided the link here because Mysticknight's own attempt and conclusion are metaphysical. So, my old post would make sense and have some value. It's like two people discussing whether Aslan the Lion knows every detail about what goes in Narnia or not, while in fact being oblivious that there is no Aslan and there is no Narnia.At least I know now that our "philosopher" watched Narnia!
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