32 replies to this topic

[RiseOrDie]

One of the bigger signs of the end times is the emergance of a creature out of the earth. The Daaba otherwise known as the beast in christian end-times eschotology. The Daaba will be a HUGE and strange looking creature that will roam the earth and speak to people. it is one of the major signs. In Islam It is foretold that the creature will come out of the earth, from mount safa in mekka, it will come out after the sun rises from the west. It will carry the ring of solomon on one side, and the staff of moses on the other. This creature will have a distinct job of marking the faces of believers and non believers so that it seperates the rightous from the wicked.

It will strike the faces of disbelievers with the staff, so that it breaks their nose and darkens their faces. And it marks the faces of the believers with light so that their faces shine. It will then speak to the wicked people and say, "Mankind had no faith in our revelations".

It is well acknowledged and agreed amongst Muslims, that once the sun rises from the west; the repentenace of man will no longer be accepted. And so this creature will rise at the same time or shortly after the sun rises from the west, and it will set the stage so that Only the faithful believers inherit this earth leading to the final apolocyptic battles and the dajjal finally appearing.

Allah says in the Qur'an, "And when the word is fulfilled concerning them. We shall bring forth a Daabba from the Earth to speak unto them because mankind had no faith in our revelation."  (Surah An-Naml 27.82 )

The dabba is a good sign for the true believers and a relief for ummat muhammed, it will allow the people to distinguish between each other, and that so they can trade with the true believers, any hypocrites, spies and traitors will no longer be able to hide in the Imams kingdom,  they will be recognised and they will not be able to intervene in the affairs of muslims, they cant hide a hidden agenda. this will allow the true mu'mineen to proceed without disturbance.

The christians have their own version of this story, they believe that in the end time a beast will rise out of the sea, and that beast will have a mouth like a lion (describing a man). Then another beast will rise out of earth, and this beast is known as the dragon. the dragon will give authority and power to the first beast which is a man.

Take everything you hear from christian sources with a grain of salt, becuase their books have been modifiedby pagans so that they worship the Sun on a Sunday, and so that they will worship the dajjal as messiah, the Sun/Son of God. This is related to the Pagan religion of Sun worship in ancient egypt, Horus the one eyed God and thats why thye use the all seeing eye as a seal. The born again christians believe that the Antichrist will arrive before Jesus christ, and the antichrist will rule for 7 years. He will be accompanied by a Dragon and a false prophet. the antichrist will create a world order under one religion, and he will make peace with Israel and allow the jews to rebuild the temple. He will change time and have great powers. later they claim he will break the peace with israel, and the last 3 and a half years will be war leading to christ.

Basically the christians are led to believe that the Imam al Mahdi is the Antichrist, thus the dragon/beast is evil, and that Isa (sa) is a false prophet. He will make peace with Israel but then they will break the peace half way through, or is it that we will conquer a 3rd enemy and they will claim that the kross caused victory, so a muslim gets angry and breaks the cross, they will fight and thus the peace breaks, i'm sure there will be social and political reasons behind it, Then after 7 years of antichrist rule jesus will come back and save them. But it will be the dajjal, and he will not save them, he will perish after 37 days and it ends for the jews and christians there. FINISHED! becuase they have been decieved by satan, they go crazy so the rocks will call upon muslims, and tell them that a little zion jew is hiding behind me. come kill it.


So they say;

Quote

"Men worshiped the dragon because he had given authority to the beast, and they also worshiped the beast and asked, "Who is like the beast? Who can make war against him?"[/color]

(revelation 13 2-4)

Quote

One of the major events to occur just before the return of Christ as Conquering King is the appearance of an individual called the Antichrist. Most people who have studied the personality and deeds of this individual have totally misunderstood the essential factors associated with this person

Many view the Antichrist, the image, the mark of the Beast, and the Beast's alliance of nations as things that will be easily recognized as evil and sinister. The reality is that the Antichrist and his religious system of government will look like the greatest and most wonderful religious, political, and economic system the world has ever seen. The leader of this alliance of nations will appear as a dynamic and charismatic individual who will lead his alliance of nations and the world into a time of unparalleled peace and prosperity.

Becuase they follow the dajjal system, they will reject the mahdi.

What else will the beast do according to them?

Mark of the Beast:

Quote

"And the small and the great, and the rich and the poor, and the freemen and the slaves, allow it [the Antichrist's state religion] to give them a mark on their right hand, or on their foreheads: so that none can buy or sell, except they have the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of its name. Here is wisdom. Let him having reason count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and its number is six hundred and sixty-six

" (Rev.13:16-18 Para.).

They will be marked. regardless of what why and where we will concentrate on the beast.

below is a detailed description on what that creature might look like.

Quote

Ibn Majah. Ibn Jurayj reported that Ibn Az-Zubayr described the beast and said, "Its head is like the head of a bull, its eyes are like the eyes of a pig, its ears are like the ears of an elephant, its horns are like the horns of a stag, its neck is like the neck of an ostrich, its chest is like the chest of a lion, its color is like the colour of a tiger, its haunches are like the haunches of a cat, its tail is like the tail of a ram, and its legs are like the legs of a camel. Between each pair of its joints is a distance of twelve cubits. It will bring out with it the staff of Musa and the ring of Sulayman. There will be no believer left without it making a white spot on his face, which will spread until all his face is shining white as a result; and there will be no disbeliever left without it making a black spot on his face, which will spread until all his face is black as a result, then when the people trade with one another in the marketplace, they will say, `How much is this, O believer' `How much is this, O disbeliever' And when the members of one household sit down together to eat, they will know who is a believer and who is a disbeliever. Then the beast will say: `O so-and-so, enjoy yourself, for you are among the people of Paradise.' And it will say: `O so-and-so, you are among the people of Hell,' This is what Allah says…

Head: Bull


Eyes: Pig


Ears: Elephant



Horns: Stag


Neck: Ostrich



Chest: Lion



Colour: tiger



Claws: Cat



Legs: camel



tail: ram



Indeed a very strange creature and remember this is supposed to be huge and be able to roam the earth in a short period of time.

This is what the christians imagine the beast to look like according to their own scriptures, this is an ugly depiction, becuase Allah is the beast of creators:

I dont feel as if this creature described will walk on it legs.

I believe that what the Prophet muhammed peace be upon him was describing is in fact a dragon. Interesting that we just entered the chinese new year which is the year of the dragon. and unlike the west, the chinese view the dragon as a good symbol of power, fortune and majesty. it is highly respected.

So there is no doubt that the beast will rise, and it will mark the people for what they have achieved. could the daaba be a dragon? flys, very fast, and looks the part:

could the beast be a dragon?

possibly, as it fits the description.

note: the horns look like that of a stag. neck of ostrich. claws of cat, chest of lion, tail of sheep.

Edited by RiseOrDie, 01 February 2012 - 04:53 PM.

[Dawud Miqdad al-Amriki]

Subhanallah I never thought of it like that before.

"Beast from the East" comes to mind.

Yes 2012 marks "The Year of the Dragon" which happens only every 12 years...

Notice the number 12.... it's repeated everywhere subhanallah...

12 Imaams, 12 disciples of Christ, 12 staffs of the tribes of Israel, 12 descendant princes from Ishmael, 12 months in the year, 12 cycles in the Chinese calendar,

Quote

Taken from BibleStudy.org "Meaning of Numbers in the Bible":
Twelve is a perfect number, signifying perfection of government, or of governmental perfection. It is found as a multiple in all that has to do with rule.

Surah al-Ahzab 33:33 = 3+3+3+3 = 12 ... The purification verse, purifying the 12 Imaams, Fatima Zahra , and Muhammad
Surah al-Ahzab [33], Verse 33:Allah intends only to remove from you all impurity, O people of the household, and to purify you with a perfect purification.


Genesis: 17,19-20 "I have heard your prayer for Ishmael. I have blessed him and will make him fruitful. I will multiply his descendants; he shall be the father of twelve princes; and I will raise a great nation from him."

Exodus 28:21 There are to be twelve stones, one for each of the names of the sons of Israel, each engraved like a seal with the name of one of the twelve tribes.


Numbers 17  ¹ The LORD said to Moses, ² “Speak to the Israelites and get twelve staffs from them, one from the leader of each of their ancestral tribes. Write the name of each man on his staff. ³ On the staff of Levi write Aaron’s name, for there must be one staff for the head of each ancestral tribe. ⁴ Place them in the tent of meeting in front of the ark of the covenant law, where I meet with you. ⁵ The staff belonging to the man I choose will sprout, and I will rid myself of this constant grumbling against you by the Israelites.”
⁶ So Moses spoke to the Israelites, and their leaders gave him twelve staffs, one for the leader of each of their ancestral tribes, and Aaron’s staff was among them. ⁷ Moses placed the staffs before the LORD in the tent of the covenant law.
⁸ The next day Moses entered the tent and saw that Aaron’s staff, which represented the tribe of Levi, had not only sprouted but had budded, blossomed and produced almonds. ⁹ Then Moses brought out all the staffs from the LORD’s presence to all the Israelites. They looked at them, and each of the leaders took his own staff.
¹⁰ The LORD said to Moses, “Put back Aaron’s staff in front of the ark of the covenant law, to be kept as a sign to the rebellious. This will put an end to their grumbling against me, so that they will not die.” ¹¹ Moses did just as the LORD commanded him.

Quote

The dragon is a symbol of power. http://www.about-sic...the-dragon.html

23 January 2012 – 9 February 2013: Water Dragon

Quote

Water (Chinese: 水; pinyin: shuǐ), is the low point of the matter, or the matter's dying or hiding stage.^[1] Water is the fifth stage of Wu Xing.

Water is the most yin in character of the Five elements. Its motion is downward and inward and its energy is stillness and conserving. It is associated with the Winter, the North, the planet Mercury, the color black, cold weather, night, and the Black Tortoise (Xuan Wu) in Four Symbols.

It is also associated with the moon, which was believed to cause the dew to fall at night.

1) The end times
2) The black flags of Khorasan
3) The Islamic Hijri calendar (Lunar -- Moon)

Quote

In Chinese Astrology, water is included in the 10 heavenly stems (the five elements in their yin and yang forms), which combine with the 12 earthly branches (or Chinese signs of the zodiac)

12........

Coincidence? Or are we on to something?

Edited by Dawud Miqdad al-Amriki, 01 February 2012 - 05:07 PM.

[-Enlightened]

subhanAllah. The verses from the bible referring to the twelve Imam   </3     ^

[Abbas0]

Interesting my brothers. But what do we do to prepare for all of this? Other than being religious and preparing for his call.
I mean how do we KNOW that its coming for sure!

[Dawud Miqdad al-Amriki]

Abbas0, on 01 February 2012 - 06:26 PM, said:

Interesting my brothers. But what do we do to prepare for all of this? Other than being religious and preparing for his call.
I mean how do we KNOW that its coming for sure!

We don't know, only Allah SWT knows, but we should wait anxiously.

[RiseOrDie]

The dragon represents wisdom, power and majesty.

This creature will surely be worthy to carry the staff of moses and ring of solomon peace be upon them.

Quote

“Then I saw another beast come up out of the earth.  He had two horns like those of a lamb, and he spoke with the voice of a dragon.”  Revelation 13:11 (NLT)

The new born christians too have a timeline of events, and very detailed. I say new born becuase thats the branch that follows the zionist belief that the dajjal is the messiah. Most christians and jews will convert to Islam after the blast/scream in Ramadan and later until the sun rises from the west.
The new borns believe in the 7 year tribulation and that the israelites are the chosen people of god. they teach racial supramacy of the jews, in Islam all humans are equal and that we are judged based on action. But they say no, the israelites are the rulers and true followers even if they sin, even if they worship a different god. only if they knew...




so yeh, the dajjal will come to them at the end and they will be pleased with him, then he will perish.

Regarding the SUN rising from the West.

For the sun to rise from the west, there must be an enormous event that causes the earth to stop, and then rotate the other way around. and i mean a massive event. Thats if the earth is the cause, but for all we know the earth could stand still whilst the whole solar system revolves around the earth creating the effect. I'm not going to rule anything out yet, Allah is all powerful and glorious.

But lets assume that the earth literally stops and then begin rotating the other way, this event on its own will change time. we will no longer have 24 hours a day. the day will be as fast as the earth rotates.

Quote

It has been narrated from Abdul-Karim Nakh'ee as such: I asked Sadeq Aal-e-Muhammad: For how long will the Qa'em rule

Imam (A.S.) replied: "Seven years. The days and nights during Mahdi's time will be so lengthy that one year of that time will be like twenty years of today and (seven) years of Mahdi will be equal to seventy years of your reckoning."

Edited by RiseOrDie, 01 February 2012 - 07:38 PM.

[alialiali]

i guess you can only imagine somthing that you have seen or sensed with the lmiited senses, what ever this beast that is mentioned looks like, its possible that it's somthing beyond yours and my imagination as we have never seen it before and probably is somthing totally different to a dragon.

from what i have read and heard, some shias say that the daaba is maula Ali (saw) and will be hidden.

Edited by alialiali, 01 February 2012 - 07:41 PM.

[RiseOrDie]

alialiali, on 01 February 2012 - 07:40 PM, said:

from what i have read and heard, some shias say that the daaba is maula Ali (saw) and will be hidden.

yeh I wouldnt rule that out, it is possible I guess. But in the Quran it is being clear

Allah says in the Qur'an, "And when the word is fulfilled concerning them. We shall bring forth a Daabba from the Earth to speak unto them because mankind had no faith in our revelation." (Surah An-Naml 27.82 )

Imam ali abu al hassan is no beast, he is a wonderful person, and he said that some will go to heaven becuase they love him so much, and other will go to hell becuase they love him so much, ie alawis , those who glorify him and pray to him more than they pray to Allah.

[RiseOrDie]

Abbas0, on 01 February 2012 - 06:26 PM, said:

Interesting my brothers. But what do we do to prepare for all of this? Other than being religious and preparing for his call.
I mean how do we KNOW that its coming for sure!

there is actually a lot you can do for now,

1. help the poor, give food, clothes, money, anything to help. donate!

like ahlulbayte eliminate all the materialistic elements

2. show the people islam

not by trying to prove islam is right, but by illustrating it through actions and statements

3. teach the people islam

first you study the subject, then you teach

4. practice patience and displine yourself

patience is earned, displine so that you pray on time, not harm a fly, and say no to desire

5. talk to people about the end times

since we are in 2012 we might as well. If we dont spread our beliefs like they are doing now(2012 new age propaganda), then we will soon lose more human souls to satans evil plan. as a follower of ahlulbayte we have pledged that we follow them in what they do, meaning even sacrifice like Karbala for the sake of truth. so lets illuminate the community, and Allah guides whomever he wills.

[RiseOrDie]

lets not set a specific time, only speculate and hope, and pray.

[ShiaSoldier@2007]

Ta’weel Al-Ayat, by Sharaf Ad-Deen Al- Husseini, vol. 1, p. 404; Bihar Al-Anwar, vol. 39, p. 243.

On the authority of Abu Abdullah Al-Jadali, he said: [When I visited Ali Bin Abi Talib he told me the following: There are three things you should know before someone comes in, would you like to know of them? I replied: Yes, I would. He then said: I am the servant of Allah and I am the Beast of the earth, its Truth, Justice and brother of its Prophet. Would you like to know about the nose and eyes of Al-Mahdi? I replied: Yes I would. He hit his chest and answered: It is me

[edited by request]

Not sure about the authenticity of the narrations, but there seem to be quite a few of them.

Edited by macisaac, 13 February 2012 - 07:39 PM.

[Jihadi]

interisting stuff brothers, im glad and and thank Allah swt for guiding me to the right path

it would be nice if someone can draw the beast with the descriptions giving to us if thats ok.

and about if the beast is going to be a dragon or not, i think it is since its going to travel all over the world, it must be a dragon beast who Allah has hidden somewhere on earth

i think that the sun coming from the west will cause world wide earthquake the will shake the earth and change the climate were its hot to cold ect, not just that but cause many species to escape from their hidden places after being stuck under earth all due to the cause of many catastrophes thousands of years, and MAYBE the beast might be hidden in a cave under earth  not known to man waiting for the release and ALLAHS  swt will ....But at the end Allah knows best these are just some concepts that can be taken as the evidence and discoveries found here on earth are being found like  when they say that the earth might be hollow and so an so but once again Allah knows best, jooj and majooj might even be awaiting for this event of the sun of course once Allah swt knows the time they will be release, About Gog and magog If you look at the evidence its almost inevitable the they might be early humans from earth like those who scientists have found human skulls from cave mans who look so different then from us today, they are another kind of species who are like wild beast that eat anything destroy everything ect, all this gives the description to gog and magog, while this event of the sun and poler shift will take place it would be a matter of time for that exact earth quake to hit and open the cave were they are hidden ONce and for all only Allah swt knows best

sorry for the grammer and mistakes

[Jihadi]

ShiaSoldier@2007, on 01 February 2012 - 11:28 PM, said:

Ta’weel Al-Ayat, by Sharaf Ad-Deen Al- Husseini, vol. 1, p. 404; Bihar Al-Anwar, vol. 39, p. 243.

On the authority of Abu Abdullah Al-Jadali, he said: [When I visited Ali Bin Abi Talib he told me the following: There are three things you should know before someone comes in, would you like to know of them? I replied: Yes, I would. He then said: I am the servant of Allah and I am the Beast of the earth, its Truth, Justice and brother of its Prophet. Would you like to know about the nose and eyes of Al-Mahdi? I replied: Yes I would. He hit his chest and answered: It is me

[edited by request]

Not sure about the authenticity of the narrations, but there seem to be quite a few of them.

hey brother just tell me why tell me why, why do you let someone take you out the right path just by some hadiths that ANYONE can use for them selfs,  You were on- board The real ark of the ahlul bayt but you got off, Im a new revert muslim just about 6 months ago, and i asked Allah to guide me and help me not deviate in the wrong path and alhamdulillah im in the same path Allah guided me too subhanallah, Beleave me brother they are very deceiving, what would you do once imam mahdi get here and u come to kno that the one you follow the so called yemeni had deceived you you would be of those who regret not being patient and looking more deeply with reason, but we all make mistakes you still have time to come back to the real shias of the ahlul bayt ,  we love you every brother who loves Allah swt muhammad (s) and his ahlul bayt
we miss every bro who has left because 1 can make a difference just like the one who was going against hussain at karbala but then repented and gave hussain his alligiance and was the first to be martyr but also if pride is stronger then know that Allah replaces those with others that love him and remain firm to hes commanments and messangers and progenys , even tho i dont know you but your heart is the same as a every true shia  because a true muslim has the same heart wich is the humble submitted heart and soul to Allah swt  only,  love to his creatures his messangers and progeny, at the end
Seeking more after finding (revert) or having (born in muslim community) the treasure thats worth more then this earth ((right path), will cause you to grieve  and finally be misguided , this are words from me bro not from a source this is just my heart speaking .

[RiseOrDie]

ShiaSoldier@2007, on 01 February 2012 - 11:28 PM, said:

Ta’weel Al-Ayat, by Sharaf Ad-Deen Al- Husseini, vol. 1, p. 404; Bihar Al-Anwar, vol. 39, p. 243.

On the authority of Abu Abdullah Al-Jadali, he said: [When I visited Ali Bin Abi Talib he told me the following: There are three things you should know before someone comes in, would you like to know of them? I replied: Yes, I would. He then said: I am the servant of Allah and I am the Beast of the earth, its Truth, Justice and brother of its Prophet. Would you like to know about the nose and eyes of Al-Mahdi? I replied: Yes I would. He hit his chest and answered: It is me

[edited by request]

again, I don't think IMAM ALI is the beast. Not only are the narrations and the hadith above are weak and misinterpreted, but the website(source) the-savior.com is the website of ahmed al hassan al yamani. the imposter who claims to be the 1 of 12 mahdis. the one who fabricates hadiths.

[Abbas0]

Very interesting facts and hadiths! So this creature comes out after the sun rises the opposite way eh!?
Crazyness!

[macisaac]

I think you're getting confused by the translation of daabba as beast, while a daabba can mean any living creature that walks, crawls, or creeps on the Earth, so that would include human beings as well, such as in this ayat:


وَاللَّهُ خَلَقَ كُلَّ دَابَّةٍ مِنْ مَاءٍ ۖ فَمِنْهُمْ مَنْ يَمْشِي عَلَىٰ بَطْنِهِ وَمِنْهُمْ مَنْ يَمْشِي عَلَىٰ رِجْلَيْنِ وَمِنْهُمْ مَنْ يَمْشِي عَلَىٰ أَرْبَعٍ ۚ يَخْلُقُ اللَّهُ مَا يَشَاءُ ۚ إِنَّ اللَّهَ عَلَىٰ كُلِّ شَيْءٍ قَدِيرٌ

And Allah has created every daabba from water, and some of them go upon their bellies, and some of them go upon two feet, and some of them go upon four; Allah creates whatever He will; Allah is powerful over everything. (24:45)

Shaykh Tusi mentions this narration in his Tafsir at-Tibyan that also would appear to indicate the daabba is a human being:

وروى محمد بن كعب القرطي عن علي (عليه السلام) انه سئل عن الدابة، فقال: (اما والله مالها ذنب وإن لها لحية

And Muhammad b. Ka`b al-Qarati narrated from `Ali عليه السلام that he was asked about the daabba, so he said: By Allah it does not have a tail, and verily it has a beard.

There are also some narrations that indicate more specifically the daabba will be Amir al-Mu'mineen عليه السلام, i.e. at the raj`a.

As to the narration you quoted describing the daabba, it would hold no weight for us as it is not even a hadith from a Ma`sum, it is simply quoting Ibn az-Zubayr's view, who is no authority for us.

[Haydar Husayn]

Can anyone give me a single good reason why the writings of an unknown man called 'John', who claims he wrote down the content of dreams or visions that came to him while he was on an island, should be taken seriously by Muslims as prophecy? Shall we also go through Nostradamus' stuff and see what we can find that talks about the number 12, or has some vague similarity to Islamic teachings?

Have people actually read Revelations by the way? If they actually read the whole thing, rather than cherry-picking verses here and there, I doubt they would find much to agree with in terms of the portrayal of Jesus it gives.


And by the way, just because you can find the number 12 in the Bible, it doesn't mean it is making any reference to the 12 Imams . There were actually 12 tribes of Israel, 12 apostles, etc. They have their own significance, and have nothing to do with the Imams.

[Philip]

^^ well when we talk about Aaron we can refer him to Ali .. or? and his progeny ..

in that part:

Quote

Aaron’s staff, which represented the tribe of Levi, had not only sprouted but had budded, blossomed and produced almonds.

isn't Ali to prophet muhamed .. Aron to Musa ?

[Haydar Husayn]

Philip, on 02 February 2012 - 09:03 AM, said:

^^ well when we talk about Aaron we can refer him to Ali .. or? and his progeny ..

in that part:



isn't Ali to prophet muhamed .. Aron to Musa ?

That doesn't mean that when the Bible is talking about Aaron , that it is actually talking about Ali . Aaron was his own person, with his own progeny.

The hadith of the Prophet is talking about the similarity in relationship and circumstances, not between the individuals. People are reading way too much into the Bible.

[Philip]

but this one is pretty cool or?

Quote

Genesis: 17,19-20 "I have heard your prayer for Ishmael. I have blessed him and will make him fruitful. I will multiply his descendants; he shall be the father of twelve princes; and I will raise a great nation from him."

[Haydar Husayn]

Philip, on 02 February 2012 - 09:30 AM, said:

but this one is pretty cool or?

Why shouldn't it mean what it says? That Ishmael had 12 sons? It may also be a reference to the 12 Imams . I suppose it can't be completely ruled out, but there is no reason to assume this is what is being talked about.

Genesis 25:12-18 (NIV)

Ishmael’s Sons

¹² This is the account of the family line of Abraham’s son Ishmael, whom Sarah’s slave, Hagar the Egyptian, bore to Abraham.
¹³ These are the names of the sons of Ishmael, listed in the order of their birth: Nebaioth the firstborn of Ishmael, Kedar, Adbeel, Mibsam, ¹⁴ Mishma, Dumah, Massa, ¹⁵ Hadad, Tema, Jetur, Naphish and Kedemah. ¹⁶ These were the sons of Ishmael, and these are the names of the twelve tribal rulers according to their settlements and camps. ¹⁷ Ishmael lived a hundred and thirty-seven years. He breathed his last and died, and he was gathered to his people. ¹⁸ His descendants settled in the area from Havilah to Shur, near the eastern border of Egypt, as you go toward Ashur. And they lived in hostility toward all the tribes related to them.

Edited by Haydar Husayn, 02 February 2012 - 09:44 AM.

[RiseOrDie]

@ macisaac & @ ShiaSoldier@2007

I want to be able to understand why some shia believe that Imam Ali will be the daaba.

It is by all means possible on the order of Allah, and I am not going to rule it out

However what I want to emphasize on greatly is that the daaba, is a creature that walks on 4 legs.

Human/man walks on 2 legs

so do you reckon Imam Ali will come in his own image(human) or as a creature that walks on 4 legs?

Because that is a big statement, and if we are unsure then I highly suggest we stop discussing Imam Ali's relation to the daaba.

[Chaotic Muslem]

RiseOrDie, on 02 February 2012 - 11:30 AM, said:

@ macisaac & @ ShiaSoldier@2007

I want to be able to understand why some shia believe that Imam Ali will be the daaba.

It is by all means possible on the order of Allah, and I am not going to rule it out

However what I want to emphasize on greatly is that the daaba, is a creature that walks on 4 legs.

Human/man walks on 2 legs

so do you reckon Imam Ali will come in his own image(human) or as a creature that walks on 4 legs?

Because that is a big statement, and if we are unsure then I highly suggest we stop discussing Imam Ali's relation to the daaba.

Some Shia think that Imam Ali is the dabba because some Shia have read their heritage and hadiths

it is stated clearly in many hadiths that Imam Ali is the dabba , he will be back in what we call (raj'ah)

back to dabba meaning , this is from arabic dictionary that defines dabba as any animal weather aqil - intelligent - or not is called dabba
والدَّابَّة اسمٌ لما دَبَّ من الحَيَوان، مُمَيِّزةً وغيرَ مُمَيِّزة.
وفي التنزيل العزيز: واللّه خلق كلَّ دابَّةٍ مِنْ ماءٍ، فَمِنْهُم مَنْ يَمْشِي على بَطْنِه؛ ولـمَّا كان لِما يَعقِلُ، ولما لا يَعْقِلُ، قيل: فَمِنْهُم؛ ولو كان لِما لا يَعْقِلُ، لَقِيل: فَمِنْها، أَو فَمِنْهُنَّ، ثم قال: مَنْ يَمْشِي على بَطْنِه؛ وإِن كان أَصْلُها لِما لا يَعْقِلُ، لأَنـَّه لـمَّا خَلَط الجَماعَةَ، فقال منهم، جُعِلَت العِبارةُ بِمنْ؛ والمعنى: كلَّ نفس دَابَّةٍ.
وقوله، عز وجل: ما تَرَكَ على ظَهْرِها من دَابَّةٍ؛ قيل من دَابَّةٍ من الإِنْسِ والجنِّ، وكُلِّ ما يَعْقِلُ؛ وقيل: إِنَّما أَرادَ العُمومَ؛ يَدُلُّ على ذلِكَ قول ابن عباس، رضي اللّه عنهما: كادَ الجُعَلُ يَهْلِكُ، في جُحْرِهِ، بذَنْبِ ابنِ آدمَ.
ولما قال الخَوارِجُ لِقَطَرِيٍّ: اخْرُجْ إِلَيْنا يا دَابَّةُ، فأَمَرَهُم بالاسْتِغْفارِ، تَلَوا الآية حُجَّةً عليه.
والدابَّة التي تُرْكَبُ؛ قال: وقَدْ غَلَب هذا الاسْم على ما يُرْكَبُ مِن الدَّوابِّ، وهو يَقَعُ عَلى الـمُذَكَّرِ والـمُؤَنَّثِ، وحَقِيقَتُه الصفَةُ.
وذكر عن رُؤْبة أَنـَّه كان يَقُول: قَرِّبْ ذلك الدَّابَّةَ، لِبِرْذَوْنٍ لهُ.
ونَظِيرُه، من الـمَحْمُولِ عَلى الـمَعْنى، قولهُم: هذا شاةٌ، قال الخليل: ومثْلُه قوله تعالى: هذا رَحْمَة من رَبِّي.
وتَصْغِير الدابَّة: دُوَيْبَّة، الياءُ ساكِنَةٌ، وفيها إِشْمامٌ مِن الكَسْرِ، وكذلك ياءُ التَّصْغِيرِ إِذا جاءَ بعدَها حرفٌ مثَقَّلٌ في كلِّ شيءٍ.
وفي الحديث: وحَمَلَها على حِمارٍ مِنْ هذه الدِّبابَةِ أَي الضِّعافِ التي تَدِبُّ في الـمَشي ولا تُسْرع.
ودابَّة الأَرْض: أَحَدُ أَشْراطِ السَّاعَةِ.
وقوله تعالى: وإِذا وَقَع القَوْلُ عَلَيْهم، أَخْرَجْنا لَهُم دَابَّةً من الأَرض؛ قال: جاءَ في التَّفْسِير أَنـَّها تَخرُج بِتِهامَةَ، بين الصَّفَا والـمَرْوَةِ؛ وجاءَ أَيضاً: أَنها تخرج ثلاثَ مرَّات، من ثَلاثة أَمـْكِنَةٍ، وأَنـَّها تَنْكُت في وَجْهِ الكافِرِ نُكْتَةً سَوْدَاءَ، وفي وجْهِ المؤْمِن نُكْتَةً بَيْضاءَ، فَتَفْشُو نُكْتَة الكافر، حتّى يَسْوَدَّ منها وجهُه أَجمعُ، وتَفْشُو نُكْتَةُ الـمُؤْمِن، حَتى يَبْيَضَّ منها وجْهُه أَجْمَع، فتَجْتَمِعُ الجماعة على المائِدَة، فيُعْرفُ المؤْمن من الكافر وَوَرَدَ ذكرُ دابَّةِ الأَرض في حديث أَشْراطِ الساعَة؛ قيل: إِنَّها دابَّة، طولُها ستُّون ذِراعاً، ذاتُ قوائِمَ وَوَبرٍ؛ وقيل: هي مُخْتَلِفَة الخِلْقَةِ، تُشْبِهُ عِدَّةً من الحيوانات، يَنْصَدِعُ جَبَلُ الصَّفَا، فَتَخْرُج منهُ ليلَةَ جَمْعٍ، والناسُ سائِرُون إِلى مِنىً؛ وقيل: من أَرْضِ الطائِفِ، ومَعَها عَصَا مُوسى، وخاتمُ سُليمانَ، علَيْهِما السلامُ، لا يُدْرِكُها طالِبٌ، ولا يُعْجزُها هارِبٌ، تَضْرِبُ المؤْمنَ بالعصا، وتكتب في وجهه: مؤْمن؛ والكافِرُ تَطْبَعُ وجْهَه بالخاتمِ، وتَكْتُبُ فيهِ: هذا كافِرٌ.
ويُروى عن ابن عباس، رضي اللّه عنهما. قال: أَوَّل أَشْراطِ السَّاعَة خُروجُ الدَّابَّة، وطلُوعُ الشَّمْسِ من مَغْرِبها.

Even Qurtubi the Sunni scholar thought that the dabba is a human that argue with kafirs and show the people teh right way , also the verse stated that Dabba wil talk to people .

Dabba was used in Quraan to refer to humans like these verses :
في سورة هود الآية (6) تقول: {وَمَا مِن دَآبَّةٍ فِي الأَرْضِ إِلاَّ عَلَى اللّهِ رِزْقُهَا}

من سورة النحل، تقول: {وَلَوْ يُؤَاخِذُ اللّهُ النَّاسَ بِظُلْمِهِم مَّا تَرَكَ عَلَيْهَا مِن دَآبَّةٍ}(2).

{إِنَّ شَرَّ الدَّوَابَّ عِندَ اللّهِ الصُّمُّ الْبُكْمُ الَّذِينَ لاَ يَعْقِلُون}(3

Third we do have hadiths that have pointed out that Imam Ali is teh dabba

«انتهى رسول الله‘ إلى أمير المؤمنين(عليه السلام) وهو نائم في المسجد قد جمع رملاً ووضع رأسه عليه فحركه برجله، ثم قال قم يا دابة الله، فقال رجل من أصحابه: يا رسول الله أنسميّ بضنا بعضاً بهذا الاسم؟ فقال لهم لا والله ما هو إلّا له خاصة وهو الدابة التي ذكر الله في كتابه (فإذا وقع ... الخ) ثم قال: يا علي إذا كان آخر الزمان أخرجك الله في أحسن صورة ومعك ميسم تسم به أعدائك»

ن رجلاً قال لعمّار بن ياسر: في القرآن آية شغلت بالي وجعلتني في شك، قال عمار أية آية هي؟ قال آية (وإذا وقع القول ... الخ) فأية دابة هذهِ قال عمار والله ما أجلس ولا آكل ولا أشرب حتّى أريكها فجاء عمّار مع الرجل إلى أمير المؤمنين(عليه السلام) وهو يأكل طعاماً فلما بصر به الإمام(عليه السلام) قال يا أبا اليقظان هلم فجلس عمار وأقبل يأكل معه فتعجب الرجل منه فلما قام عمار قال الرجل سبحان الله يا أبا اليقظان حلفت أنك لا تأكل ولا تشرب ولا تجلس حتّى ترينيها، قال عمار: قد أريتكها إن كنت تعقل

عن الأصبغ بن نباتة. قال، قال لي معاوية؟ يا معشر الشيعة تزعمون أن عليا دابة الأرض فقلت نحن نقول اليهود تقول فأرسل إلى رأس الجالوت، فقال ويحك تجدون دابة الأرض عندكم، فقال نعم، فقال ما هي؟ فقال: رجل، قال: أتدري ما اسمه، قال: نعم اسمه إليا، قال فالتفت الي فقال ويحك ما أقرب إليا من علي.

عن أبي الطفيل، قال، قلت يا أمير المؤمنين(عليه السلام) قول الله عَزَّ وَجَلَّ (وإذا وقع الخ) ما الدابة؟ قال: يا أبا الطفيل إله عن هذا . فقلت يا أمير المؤمنين أخبرني عنه جعلت فداك، قال: هي دابة تأكل الطعام وتمشي في الأسواق وتنكح النساء، فقلت يا أمير المؤمنين من هو؟ قال هو رب الأرض الذي تسكن الأرض به فقلت يا أمير المؤمنين من هو؟ قال صديق هذهِ الأمة وفاروقها وربيُّها وذو قرنيها قلت يا أمير المؤمنين من هو؟ قال: الذي قال الله تعالى (ويتلوه شاهد منه والذي عنده علم الكتاب والذي جاء بالصدق والذي صدق به) والناس كلهم كافرون غيره قلت يا أمير المؤمنين فسمه لي، قال قد سميته لك يا أبا الطفيل والله لو أدخلت علي عامة شيمتي الذين بهم أقاتل الذين أقروا بطاعتي وسموني أمير المؤمنين واستحلوا بها ومن خالفني فحدثتهم ببعض ما أعلم من الحق في الكتاب الذي نزل به جبرائيل على محمد‘ لتفرقوا عني حتّى أبقى في عصابة من الحق قليلة أنت وأشباهك من شيعتي ففزعت وقلت يا أمير المؤمنين أنا وأشباهي نتفرق عنك أو نثبت معك؟ قال، بل تثبتون ثم أقبل عليّ، فقال: إن أمرنا صعب مستصعب لا يعرفه ولا يقر به إلّا ثلاثة ملك مقرب أو نبي مرسل أو عبد مؤمن نجيب أمتحن الله قلبه للإيمان يا أبا الطفيل أن رسول الله‘ قبض فارتد الناس ضلالاً وجهالاً إلّا من عصمة الله بنا أهل البيت

[ali313]

Just A Thought.

The word "Daaba" can be translated as a creation ...Or..may be the word "daaba" used as a metapher....
one title of Imam 'Ali (A.S) is Asadullah (the Lion of Allah) & the lion could be interpreted as a metaphor for Imam Ali (A.S),

sorry for any grammatical errors...

Edited by ali313, 02 February 2012 - 12:28 PM.

[RiseOrDie]

thank you Chaotic Muslem, you have shed some light on this topic.

this is interesting:

Quote

«انتهى رسول الله‘ إلى أمير المؤمنين(عليه السلام) وهو نائم في المسجد قد جمع رملاً ووضع رأسه عليه فحركه برجله، ثم قال قم يا دابة الله، فقال رجل من أصحابه: يا رسول الله أنسميّ بضنا بعضاً بهذا الاسم؟ فقال لهم لا والله ما هو إلّا له خاصة وهو الدابة التي ذكر الله في كتابه (فإذا وقع ... الخ) ثم قال: يا علي إذا كان آخر الزمان أخرجك الله في أحسن صورة ومعك ميسم تسم به أعدائك»

what is your source?