27 replies to this topic

[MuslimWithSSA]

Peace be on you,

This post is to offer hope and support to Muslims with unwanted same sex attractions who are struggling in the way of Allah SWT to live a halal/chase life.

My condolences to the world on the departure anniversary of our Holy Prophet pbuh and Imam a.s.  This is my first post using this account as I'd like to remain anonymous (I'd like to get married someday inshallah).

So a few days ago I watched a lecture that asked us "what are you doing to prepare for the 12th Imam's (a.s) re-appearance".  And it got me thinking "what can I actually offer in the way of assistance to him (a.s)?"  As in, what can I do to make this world and our communities a better place in my small way?

I grew up experiencing same-sex feelings (people refer to it as gay/homosexual urges), but my religion, my love of Allah SWT and especially the sacrifice of Imam Hussain (a.s) have always taught me that remaining on the right path is more important than being a victim to any worldly/base desire, alhamdulilah.

So my little bit of service for the Imam (a.s) of our time is to offer hope to Muslims out there who are experiencing unwanted same sex attractions. From the research I've done into organisations like NARTH and PeopleCanChange as well as many Christian-ministry back groups (our Christian brothers alhamdulilah are much more active in this are than us), it seems like there is a way out and hope for homosexuals who desire change to complete their growth into their true biological/sexual/spiritual potential.

Homosexuality (to me) at it's core is the seeking of gender identification outside oneself with the aim to develop it within oneself.  Its not about sex.  That's just a symptom of a deeper need for fulfillment.

We are quick (and rightly so) to state that homosexuality is haram in Islam, but we offer little in the way of advice and guidance to the young Muslim who already knows its wrong but cannot find a way to change his feelings overnight.  (Trust me, I've been there).  Their choices are to
live a life of celibacy constantly fighting temptation (public and private),
to get married and hope the issue resolve themselves
or to run to the nearest group who offer to understand them (the gay community).

If that boy were your son, how would you feel about that? (I put my hand up and say I don't have enough knowledge about lesbianism to comment on it).

At the end of the day our bodies are heterosexual - biologically, physiologically and endocrinologically.  There is no doubt about that (I've no experience on transgender-ism, so I won't comment on that)
Allah SWT guides to the truth through His creation.
We weren't born gay - if we were our bodies are wasting a lot of time and energy maintaining a reproductive system that would never be used for its intended purpose.  Twin studies have shown that homosexuality isn't the result of solely a genetic component.

My opinion is that homosexuality is something that is related to an incomplete identification with a person's own gender. And the resulting attraction to the same-gender is purely the body's way to complete that growth (albeit that attraction has  now been sexualised during puberty).  If you ask most gay men about their feelings towards other men BEFORE they became sexually active they'll admit that they "wanted to BE that guy" rather than wanting to be intimate with them.
How many gay men do you know that that have distant relationships with their fathers and complex/intwined relationships with their mothers?  Its not a rule as such, but its a theme that runs through many examples that I've seen (including my own).

Anyway, the knowledge I've gained (from Allah ultimately I hope) through reading about the causes of SSA (same sex attractions), the feelings of completion and brotherhood I gained through performing the Hajj alhamdulilah mean that my same-sex attractions have largely resolved alhamdulilah.  If I feel them stirring within I know its because I myself am feeling unaffirmed and troubled and it's my 'addiction' that ringing alarm bells that I need to take care of the core thing that's troubling me rather than seek any sort of futile engagement to deal with the symptom.  It's hard work...I feel like im a recovered alcoholic who constantly needs to keep a check and address his emotional issues lest he fall into a pit.  But alhamdulilah this journey has given me drive to hold onto the Rope of Allah SWT and inshallah I'll continue to do so until my departure for the next (everlasting) life.

If you're reading this and in a similar position to me.  There is hope.  You can grow and heal and attain your potential.  Allah SWT loves you and made you in the best of moulds - the environment might have hindered things along the way (it happens to everyone to varying degrees) but you can overcome that.  I've started a blog/twitter feed/facebook with links to various sources of assistance at

www.muslimwithssa.wordpress.com

(or I could post the links directly here if the mods feel it more appropriate).

May Allah take care of you always, and may we all assist the 12th Imam (a.s) in everyway we can inshallah to make this world an amazing platform before the next.

[Replicant]

I've given you the benefit of the doubt and approved this topic but I hope you're not a troll who is taking the mick.

[MuslimWithSSA]

No brother I'm not a troll.  Although I look pretty bad first thing in the morning.

[BillyJo]

 MuslimWithSSA, on 25 January 2012 - 01:20 PM, said:

Peace be on you,

This post is to offer hope and support to Muslims with unwanted same sex attractions who are struggling in the way of Allah SWT to live a halal/chase life.

My condolences to the world on the departure anniversary of our Holy Prophet pbuh and Imam a.s.  This is my first post using this account as I'd like to remain anonymous (I'd like to get married someday inshallah).

So a few days ago I watched a lecture that asked us "what are you doing to prepare for the 12th Imam's (a.s) re-appearance".  And it got me thinking "what can I actually offer in the way of assistance to him (a.s)?"  As in, what can I do to make this world and our communities a better place in my small way?

I grew up experiencing same-sex feelings (people refer to it as gay/homosexual urges), but my religion, my love of Allah SWT and especially the sacrifice of Imam Hussain (a.s) have always taught me that remaining on the right path is more important than being a victim to any worldly/base desire, alhamdulilah.

So my little bit of service for the Imam (a.s) of our time is to offer hope to Muslims out there who are experiencing unwanted same sex attractions. From the research I've done into organisations like NARTH and PeopleCanChange as well as many Christian-ministry back groups (our Christian brothers alhamdulilah are much more active in this are than us), it seems like there is a way out and hope for homosexuals who desire change to complete their growth into their true biological/sexual/spiritual potential.

Homosexuality (to me) at it's core is the seeking of gender identification outside oneself with the aim to develop it within oneself.  Its not about sex.  That's just a symptom of a deeper need for fulfillment.

We are quick (and rightly so) to state that homosexuality is haram in Islam, but we offer little in the way of advice and guidance to the young Muslim who already knows its wrong but cannot find a way to change his feelings overnight.  (Trust me, I've been there).  Their choices are to
live a life of celibacy constantly fighting temptation (public and private),
to get married and hope the issue resolve themselves
or to run to the nearest group who offer to understand them (the gay community).

If that boy were your son, how would you feel about that? (I put my hand up and say I don't have enough knowledge about lesbianism to comment on it).

At the end of the day our bodies are heterosexual - biologically, physiologically and endocrinologically.  There is no doubt about that (I've no experience on transgender-ism, so I won't comment on that)
Allah SWT guides to the truth through His creation.
We weren't born gay - if we were our bodies are wasting a lot of time and energy maintaining a reproductive system that would never be used for its intended purpose.  Twin studies have shown that homosexuality isn't the result of solely a genetic component.

My opinion is that homosexuality is something that is related to an incomplete identification with a person's own gender. And the resulting attraction to the same-gender is purely the body's way to complete that growth (albeit that attraction has  now been sexualised during puberty).  If you ask most gay men about their feelings towards other men BEFORE they became sexually active they'll admit that they "wanted to BE that guy" rather than wanting to be intimate with them.
How many gay men do you know that that have distant relationships with their fathers and complex/intwined relationships with their mothers?  Its not a rule as such, but its a theme that runs through many examples that I've seen (including my own).

Anyway, the knowledge I've gained (from Allah ultimately I hope) through reading about the causes of SSA (same sex attractions), the feelings of completion and brotherhood I gained through performing the Hajj alhamdulilah mean that my same-sex attractions have largely resolved alhamdulilah.  If I feel them stirring within I know its because I myself am feeling unaffirmed and troubled and it's my 'addiction' that ringing alarm bells that I need to take care of the core thing that's troubling me rather than seek any sort of futile engagement to deal with the symptom.  It's hard work...I feel like im a recovered alcoholic who constantly needs to keep a check and address his emotional issues lest he fall into a pit.  But alhamdulilah this journey has given me drive to hold onto the Rope of Allah SWT and inshallah I'll continue to do so until my departure for the next (everlasting) life.

If you're reading this and in a similar position to me.  There is hope.  You can grow and heal and attain your potential.  Allah SWT loves you and made you in the best of moulds - the environment might have hindered things along the way (it happens to everyone to varying degrees) but you can overcome that.  I've started a blog/twitter feed/facebook with links to various sources of assistance at

www.muslimwithssa.wordpress.com

(or I could post the links directly here if the mods feel it more appropriate).

May Allah take care of you always, and may we all assist the 12th Imam (a.s) in everyway we can inshallah to make this world an amazing platform before the next.

I never had those thoughts l 7amdella but you are right there are barely any people speaking up on how to resolve these problems

[MuslimWithSSA]

I agree brother.  Perhaps its because, to be honest, a lot of people don't have the answers on how to resolve it.  So all they can to is condemn and walk away.
Removing homosexuality from the DSM by the American Psychiatric Association was one of the worst things that could have happened (in terms of halting the research into the causes of homosexuality).  If you look into the reasons why is was removed, like anything these days, it was the result of political lobbying rather than any logical reason.  Feel free to explore the NARTH website into their articles that describe the reasons behind the removal (some of which, to be honest, were understandable given the hostility being faced).

[Ruq]

_{Interesting. Do you fancy women now then?
btw, what does 'At the end of the day our bodies are heterosexual' mean? sexuality occurs in the brain as well as the mind right? i havent looked into the evidence for biological differences in the brain regarding sexuality, but know their is some theory and evidence knocking about, what is your opinion on that?}

[MuslimWithSSA]

Peace be on you sister,
Yes I do alhamdulilah.  You see once a man's core needs are addressed and met he then starts to identify himself with the world of men.  He becomes a man among men, one of the guys as it were.  It is only then, when he is comfortable in his own masculine skin do he start to see women as the opposite (whereas before they'd been over-familiar), different, mysterious.
Being in an Islamic environment really helps when a women's beauty is actually concealed.  Over exposure to the feminine leads to over familiarity with the feminine which isn't conducive to the homosexual's healing and growth.  (Although I wouldn't say that its the cause of homosexuality by any means.).

What I meant by "At the end of the day our bodies are heterosexual" was that biologically a gay man is still a male.  His body produces sperm that is designed to meet with an egg - no body have ever contested that.  So even though his psychology is drawing him to other men, his body is still producing sperm in the hope that its going to procreate hetersexually.  If that makes sense?  And we all know how psychology can be SO shaped by childhood experiences and that psychology can have such control over our hormones and responses to things.  It's not far fetched to say though that to an extent we can 'unlearn' certain things and grow our minds in certain directions, especially when they haven't reached their true potential.  That, to me, is an essence of our religion.

[3laweyaZainabiya]

brother,

I have to admit, I have many questions about this topic but never cared enough to read about it. Most of the threads started on SC about homosexuality end up a big mess and I lose interest while trying to separate the facts from the obnoxious opinions. May Allah increase your knowlegde and grant you even more strength. I can't imagine how hard it must have been for you. Ive heard the saying "God only gives you hardships He knows you can overcome" so many times and it only ever makes sense when I hear of someone in your position.

I'm going to keep reading this thread and hopefully it'll remain civil.

[MuslimWithSSA]

Peace be on you,
May Allah SWT reward you for your kind words, I'm sure there's a hadith that says there is nothing better than for you bring happiness to a believer's heart
This journey has taught me so much alhamdulilah (and more to come inshallah).  On the battlefield of Kerbala Imam Hussain said to Allah "keep on taking until you are satisfied" - sometimes we need to lose everything to realise that He (swt) is all we love and all we need and all there is.
May Allah swt take care of you

[Awaiting_for_My_Master]

Salam,

I was looking at many threads and I stumbled upon this one. I respect you a lot for facing and trying to help problems that people in our time don't want to face. Not like majority of Muslims that turn a blind eye on everything, as society advances and finds some sick way to preform sin we need to advance and learn how to counteract this. I hope that many more threads like this can be made about problems people turn a blind eye to. Like talking while Quran is being read etc May Allah Bless you and Help you calamities of this world.

If I have offended anyone please forgive me. In need of your duas

Salam

[baradar_jackson]

Dear brother:

Ahsant, very nice post.

Unfortunately, not all Muslims with such desires, have the willpower -- or even the intention -- to curb them. In fact, a lot of them even start blogs and websites to propagate the idea that these desires are perfectly OK!! (astaghfurillah)

In any case... inshAllah you continue to succeed in this difficult struggle against nafs.

[Ruq]

 MuslimWithSSA, on 25 January 2012 - 03:06 PM, said:

Peace be on you sister,
Yes I do alhamdulilah.  You see once a man's core needs are addressed and met he then starts to identify himself with the world of men.  He becomes a man among men, one of the guys as it were.  It is only then, when he is comfortable in his own masculine skin do he start to see women as the opposite (whereas before they'd been over-familiar), different, mysterious.
Being in an Islamic environment really helps when a women's beauty is actually concealed.  Over exposure to the feminine leads to over familiarity with the feminine which isn't conducive to the homosexual's healing and growth.  (Although I wouldn't say that its the cause of homosexuality by any means.).

What I meant by "At the end of the day our bodies are heterosexual" was that biologically a gay man is still a male.  His body produces sperm that is designed to meet with an egg - no body have ever contested that.  So even though his psychology is drawing him to other men, his body is still producing sperm in the hope that its going to procreate hetersexually.  If that makes sense?  And we all know how psychology can be SO shaped by childhood experiences and that psychology can have such control over our hormones and responses to things.  It's not far fetched to say though that to an extent we can 'unlearn' certain things and grow our minds in certain directions, especially when they haven't reached their true potential.  That, to me, is an essence of our religion.

wa aaikum asalam

I find what you have to say very interesting, ive never met/heard of a person who has made a genuine long term transition from being one sexuality to another through sheer will power. The whole mind/brain connection is so very interesting. There does seem to be a link between the physical brain and things like sexuality (peoples sexuality changing after having a brain injury for instance) but brain plasticity is also a reality (that we can change our physical brain by consciously changing our thoughts/behaviour) so there is so much for us to learn, is just fascinating. How long (from start to finish with your conscious effort) did it take for you to go from considering yourself gay to straight? or is it more fluid and complicated than that? Do you find its something you consciously have to still work on?

[_jen_]

 Replicant, on 25 January 2012 - 01:24 PM, said:

I've given you the benefit of the doubt and approved this topic but I hope you're not a troll who is taking the mick.

How very rude. Shows the backwards attitudes that muslim cultures hold when trying to help youth.

To the OP, I commend you for starting this very important topic. Your story will inspire many young muslims I am sure. I know a few guys who are in the same boat as you were and I've seen the difficulty they face.

[Replicant]

 _jen_, on 28 January 2012 - 02:28 PM, said:

How very rude. Shows the backwards attitudes that muslim cultures hold when trying to help youth.

There are so many of these topics started that are not serious and are there to take the mick.
If I was rude, I wouldn't have approved the thread to be started.
I was just warning IN CASE he wasn't being serious, that is all.

[MuslimWithSSA]

 baradar_jackson, on 28 January 2012 - 11:38 AM, said:

Dear brother:

Ahsant, very nice post.

Unfortunately, not all Muslims with such desires, have the willpower -- or even the intention -- to curb them. In fact, a lot of them even start blogs and websites to propagate the idea that these desires are perfectly OK!! (astaghfurillah)

In any case... inshAllah you continue to succeed in this difficult struggle against nafs.

Peace be on you,

May Allah swt reward you for your kind words of support.
With Muslims who have gone down the slippery path of trying to reconcile their homosexuality with the religion, it is often a case of not having access to enough knowledge about homosexuality and its causes.  You see, there is so little information out there, and when it does surface the gay-activist movement is quick to stamp it out and bury it under the guise of 'homophobia'.  It isn't homophobia.  Its simply trying to look into the cause of homosexuality because the "born that way, just accept it" argument is not sufficient anymore  That leaves your average gay Muslim in the dark and stuck between a rock and a hard place.  Their religion says homosexual activity is haram.  Their emotions are telling them they're attracted to the same gender.  So its either a life of celibacy (and constant frustration) or somehow engaging these homosexual desires and finding a way to make it 'ok' in the religion.  A common way to do this is to claim that the story of Lut was in reference to lust and that if a relationship is based on love then it must be ok.  But such an argument is one born out of desperation. Nobody wants to spend their life alone, so they'll go to any means to make it ok.  The gay Muslim can't openly confess their problems to their community, so they run into the arms of the only people that will listen and understand them i.e. the gay community or 'gay muslim' groups.  Its a really sad state of affairs.  But its one born out of desperation to not be alone in this life.

The more we understand homosexuality and the more we talk about its underlying causes the more we can help those in our communities (who want help) to progress forward and leave it behind, inshallah.

[MuslimWithSSA]

 ~Ruqaya, on 28 January 2012 - 01:42 PM, said:

wa aaikum asalam

I find what you have to say very interesting, ive never met/heard of a person who has made a genuine long term transition from being one sexuality to another through sheer will power. The whole mind/brain connection is so very interesting. There does seem to be a link between the physical brain and things like sexuality (peoples sexuality changing after having a brain injury for instance) but brain plasticity is also a reality (that we can change our physical brain by consciously changing our thoughts/behaviour) so there is so much for us to learn, is just fascinating. How long (from start to finish with your conscious effort) did it take for you to go from considering yourself gay to straight? or is it more fluid and complicated than that? Do you find its something you consciously have to still work on?

Peace be on you,

Thank you for your comments.
I wouldn't really look on it as a transition based on will power.  I'd perhaps look on it more as a 'progression' or 'growth' based on correctly giving your mind what its looking for in the correct way.  You see our bodies are trying to 'identify' with the same gender in order to complete our own gender identification.  This is something ever child goes through naturally.  Young boys bond with older men (fathers, brothers, other boys in play) and they all go through that "ergh, girls!" stage.  This is natural gender self identification.  They grow into masculinity and understand themselves as completely man and comfortable in the world of men.  
From my observations and understanding (of my own experiences too) that most people who have homosexual feelings its because this natural gender self identification hasn't completed properly yet (which can be for various reasons - emotionally absent father figure, abuse at an early age, over involved mothers etc....).  They're still in that stage where they don't quite feel a 'man among men' and are drawn to the 'masculine' in order to complete that self identification.  The trouble is that this is going on for so long and then puberty suddenly hits and then the 'unfamiliar' (i.e. masculinity) suddenly becomes the 'attractive', and it's a confusing mess to be frank.  Another problem is masturbation which exacerbates the problem psychologically because you're create a 'reward mechanism' in your brain for thinking about the same gender.  It compounds the issue.  I can totally see why our religion regards it as haram. (I think I'm going to do a blog post about it soon: "Is masturbation keeping you gay?").
But you're totally right, the brain has so much influence over our body.  Our thought patterns can affect our hormones and physical responses.  I've heard stories from majalis that I've been to about how powerful the mind/body connection is - with people scaring themselves to death for example, or mothers being able to lift cars to save their babies.
A lot of gay people will claim that they can't control what they're attracted to, and so attribute their homosexuality to an inbuilt mechanism created by God.  This is not true because so many fears and attractions are actually learned through childhood and aren't necessarily 'inbuilt' from birth.  But they happen so early on that the person claims that 'they've always known they were gay'.  These fears and attractions can be so powerful that they have physiological responses by the body.
So I wouldn't say this is a 'change' or a 'transition' or even anything that need 'fixing' (I've been stung many times by gay-activists taking objection to those terms), I'd say its more of a 'completion of natural growth', and 'progression' and 'reaching one's natural potential' instead.  I think that's a more accurate and understanding way to describe it.
In answer to your question, I spent about 6-7 years of my life in the 'celibate but frustrated' stage.  I then reached a point where I'd had enough (it was around this time I was preparing to go for the Hajj) and I quite literally gave up and asked Allah to take over because I had nothing left within me anymore.  Even though I wasn't engaging physically in any haram activity I hated the fact that my brain was attracted to something in a way I knew my Creator wouldn't want it to be.  If you read a lot of  the 'struggling' (I don't even like that term either) Muslim support groups they often say "don't worry, it is only homosexual activity that is haram, not the desires in themselves", but, honestly, I felt like a fraud even just having the desires.  How could I face Allah on the Day of Judgement with my brain wanting something He (swt) wouldnt want me to want?  Preparing for the Hajj was a wake up call.  I had to sort myself out otherwise I'd have felt like a sham going there.  Besides I truly thought that I was going to die on Hajj anyway (too many news reports of crowd crushings!), so it really was a good way for me to sort myself out before going.  It was an amazingly intense few weeks, with some truely amazing brothers (Allah swt answered my prayers) who really made me feel worthy to hang out with them.  When I got back I was motivated to join a PeopleCanChange support group and really delve into the psychological aspects and things I needed to address.  And that's what I've been doing alhamdulilah for the last 3-4 years now.
Knowledge of the core issues is a powerful thing. a VERY powerful thing.  I now know why our religion places so much emphasis on gaining knowledge. I now know why I am attracted to certain people/things.  I know what I need to address and what I need to do to reach my potential.  I'm no longer a 'victim' of my feelings and emotions because I know what controls that.  Alhamdulilah that is more valuable than any wealth.
It is definitely something I have to consciously work on.  You see homosexuality is my addiction (similar to other people who have recovered from an alcohol or narcotics addition).  It's the symptom my body turns to when I feel low/bad about myself.  Its what my body was used to as a 'pick me up' to try (in a futile way) to make myself feel good by engaging with the masculine in order to make myself affirmed as a man.  I realise now that underneath the sexualisation aspect, its a perfectly normal way for a boy to grow - to want to hang out with others guys.  I just have to make sure I constantly allow myself that opportunity in a halal way.  If i ever feel some sort of attraction creeping up, I have a series of steps I go through to figure out what is wrong.  Its usually something at home/work bothering me..and subconsciously I seek out others with a quality I wish I had in myself to deal with that situation.  The resolution for me in that instance is to firstly resolve the issue at home/work and secondly to also develop that quality within myself so I don't have to seek it out in others.
May Allah SWT take care of you.

[~RuQaYaH~]

Thank you for sharing your story and thoughts, I think it's fantastic that you've decided to use your experience to help others in a similar boat. You are absolutely correct, the Muslim community isn't doing enough in this respect and it's partially because we don't know how to deal with it. Muslims that experience same sex attraction are faced with either a hostile Muslim community that rejects them, or when they do try to help them I believe it's through the wrong channels. For example, it's often our shaykhs that are left to deal with Muslims with SSA but shaykhs are not psychologists and the job is probably better left to qualified devout Muslim psychologists. Ofcourse, homosexuality has been taken off the list of psychological illnesses so I assume they wouldn't be able to say that it is a mental illness to their patient (atleast not overtly/directly), but they can help the individual explore their past experiences and so on and perhaps help them to tap into the root cause/s.  

I think your story can help us gain some insight into the issue, can I ask you some questions if you don't mind:

1. When did your same sex attraction begin and when was it (for the most part) resolved?

2. Here are my thoughts on the prevalence of homosexuality. I believe that the reason why we have so many gay people today is because it has been normalised by society and has become a viable option. The other side would argue that there has always been just as many gay people - it's not that there are more gay people today, it's just that they're allowed to be open about it today without being ostracised. However, I don't think this is true. 50+ years ago homosexuality was deemed to be morally repugnant and was rarely even an issue that was brought to the public eye - so even if there were men who, for example, had an incomplete identification with their own gender, seeking to complete it through same sex relationships was not really a viable option. My guess is that many probably never even thought to do that  and hence never even really experienced same sex attraction because of the way society treated homosexuality and its lack of visibility in society and so instead sought to complete their identification with their own gender in other ways (or simply left it unresolved). Or if they did think about it, it would be a fleeting thought/attraction and they'd quickly move on from it. I don't think there would've been a life-long suppression of same sex attraction/feelings sort of scenario on the part of most of these people. I'm sure there were still some cases like this - that there were people who did seriously think of/consider homosexuality and were really attracted to the same sex and were simply forced to suppress it due to the way society regarded homosexuality, but I'm inclined to thinking that this wasn't generally the case. Ofcourse, this is all speculation and I may be wrong. This kind of argument also presupposes that being gay is not natural/genetic, which I'm inclined to believe. I believe being gay is more a result of social conditioning than anything else - of seeing homosexuality as a norm and thinking hey maybe I can deal with my unresolved feelings in that way. The amount of gay rights propaganda in the last few decades has been unbelievable. Nowadays every tv show you switch on has a gay or lesbian character, It's being drilled into peoples minds that there's nothing wrong with being gay and that people are born gay. Anyway, plus we do have bisexuals and people who experiment just because they can since it has become so normalised in society (in fact for females it's deemed to be attractive to men for them to be bisexual/experiment with other girls).

So, just wanted to get your thoughts on this? And I guess my question for you is, suppose you were living in the 1950s or 60s where perhaps you never even heard of homosexuals or you had heard of them but at the same time lived in a society that deemed it outrageous and morally repugnant and it was an issue that was barely visible in the public eye, do you think that you would have still experienced same-sex attraction or experienced it as strongly as you did living in this day and age? Obviously you can never give a completely accurate answer since you haven't been in that situation but it would still be interesting to get your thoughts on this.

3. Your theory is that homosexuality is usually as a result of an incomplete gender self-identification. But how would you explain the fact that many gay people act in a feminine manner?  

Would love to hear your thoughts. May Allah (swt) reward you for your strength and courage, I can imagine that what you've been through has been no easy feat but rest assured that Allah rewards the patient.

 MuslimWithSSA, on 25 January 2012 - 01:20 PM, said:

I've started a blog/twitter feed/facebook with links to various sources of assistance at

www.muslimwithssa.wordpress.com

(or I could post the links directly here if the mods feel it more appropriate).

Sure, up to you .

wasalaam

[AusRevert]

I would truly like to commend you on posting this, and for speaking your experiences and what you have gone through. I will pray for you and keep you in my Duas brother.

keep up the good work, and I pray that you will find peace for yourself, whereever that may be.

[Abu Hadi]

Salams to all,

I would just like to clarify and expand br. Replicants concerns. The members here who are not mods do not see alot of stuff that happens in the 'behind the scenes' world of ShiaChat. If you did, you would see that his response was very appropriate. Almost every day, we get trolls, agents, etc. trying to come on SC and hijack threads and start topics to deliberately deceive our practicing Shia members, some of whom are young and naive and suceptible to propaganda from the kufar which is presented as if it is Islam. We are trying to protect our members, especially the younger ones, from that. This is most of what we do, although you don't see it.

As for this topic, the OP seems genuine, although I don't agree with everything he said. At the same time, I don't have much experience with this particular topic so I'm going to leave the comments to those more knowledgeable.

[MuslimWithSSA]

Peace be on you Sister RuQaYaH,
May Allah SWT reward you for your kind words.
You're totally right about our Islamic Religious Scholars sometimes not being clued up enough about the psychological causes of homosexuality to be able to effectively provide a solution.  Some, alhamdulilah, are beginning to explore psychology so inshallah that is changing.
We are in dire need of Muslim psychologists to help our communities in this respect.  Alas, from the removal of homosexuality from the DSM registry and the vicious gay-activist movement that seek to expel psychologists who help counsel people from professional bodies, this is becoming quite hard.  The only solution I can suggest is to either approach a NARTH or PeopleCanChange accredited psychologist (and there are many in the States) or to approach counselling for the 'core issue' that underlies the homosexuality.  Remember, the attraction to the same gender is an overlying symptom of a deeper core need for growth.  If you can discuss and resolve this with a counsellor, then you may never need to mention homosexuality.  Of course counselling is just counselling, it isn't going to do the hard work for you of basically getting out there and interacting with guys in a halal way to complete your growth.  And its tough...as people become adults they form cliques and rarely talk about their feelings to each other.  Its not easy at all. that's why I loved Hajj because all those social barriers are broken on such a journey.  Ultimately though nothing can quite adequately replace the love that a father could potentially give.  If you are a father of a son who has same sex attractions, you better to act sooner rather than later in helping him.

In answer to your questions:

1.  I first became aware of my 'fascination' with masculinity at about 11.  However I never thought of it as anymore than an "admiration" until about 18-19.

2. I think if Allah SWT spoke of homosexuality back in the time of Lut , then its been around a while.  You're correct that society these days has made the person with same sex attractions think that homosexuality is the only viable explanation.  However I don't think that society has caused the same sex attraction (that's the psychological developmental thing) but its legitimised/popularised the homosexual activity that may result from SSAs that are not addressed in the correct way.  The overt sexualisation of the media certainly hasn't helped - but again I don't think its a cause of the same sex attraction, it simply has exacerbated the sexualisation of it.  I agree that being gay isn't natural/genetic.  The fact that our bodies are still geared up to reproduce in a heterosexual way proves that.  However I would admit that certain characteristics (like a sensitive nature) that in combination with environmental factors growing up may result in a person more likely developing same sex attractions than someone else.  But the homosexual symptom itself is not genetic (twin-based studies prove that).  Gay rights has exploded because humanity hasn't offered the homosexual any viable alternative other than a life of frustrated celibacy.  So I can sympathise even though I don't agree with it.

I'm not sure I can answer your question about how I might be if I lived in another time.  But, from my point of view, one thing is clear.  Islam has all the answers.  Even without psychological intervention.  One reason and one reason alone explains why homosexuality and same sex attractions exists in our communities.  

Because we stopped being muslim.

Every single environmental cause of same sex attraction that I've read about (emotionally absent/dettached father, over involved/backbiting mother, bullying/abuse from elders/peers) is related to us not being Muslim in our actions.

Islam teaches fathers to be loving to their families (did you know there are traditions that state that you cannot sit between a father and son while they are eating? So important is the father-son bonding in our religion)
Islam teaches people to not get angry.
Islam teaches people to not speak badly about others, even if it is true.
Islam teaches people to not bully or abuse others mentally or physically.
Islam teaches men to provide for, love and protect the honour of their wives.
Islam teaches women to obey their husbands and give them pleasant company.
Islam teaches us to shield any sort of sexual behaviour to be within a marriage and in private.

Ultimately it is not a child's fault if they develop same sex attractions.  But it becomes their issue to deal with it.  The concept of Islamic brotherhood has the potential to help complete the child's gender self identification.  But, let's be honest, that was supposed to be the father's role - and for one reason or another the child didn't have access (or psychologically refused) that.

3.  Because all children at the start see themselves at 'one' with the mother.  At the ages of 2-4 boys need to break off and start self identifying with the father. If the father is absent/abusive/ridiculed at home, then the boy begins to reject him - and thus masculinity as a whole.  It could be due to other reasons too- sexual abuse from older male relatives or bullying from peers  The 'feminine' thus remains and becomes overly familiarised (if he spends too long attached to the mother and sisters).  As he grows up his brain, by Allah's mercy, still wishes to identify with the masculine in order to complete its normal development.  But he can't because he is now defensively=dettached from the masculine.  And so suddenly he becomes an outsider looking into masculinity, and finds it fascinating. Puberty/hormones then hit at a time when he should have already completed his gender self identification, and that's where things get confusing for him.
Lesbianism, on the other hand, I am no expert on.
I have a link to a really good 'homosexuality101' lecture on youtube....i will put the link here (but the mods can remove it if posting youtube links is not allowed - in fact I'd encourage everyone to watch this - its totally halal and explores the psychological causes of homosexuality)


Like I said, I have a blog on wordpress and a twitter feed, so if there are any articles anyone would like me to put up, please feel free to feedback.
May Allah SWT take care of you

[~RuQaYaH~]

Thank you for your response. I am just busy atm but inshallah I will try to respond in a few days when I get the chance. Take care .

wasalaam

[Al-Moqanna]

 ~RuQaYaH~, on 29 January 2012 - 03:10 AM, said:

2. Here are my thoughts on the prevalence of homosexuality. I believe that the reason why we have so many gay people today is because it has been normalised by society and has become a viable option. The other side would argue that there has always been just as many gay people - it's not that there are more gay people today, it's just that they're allowed to be open about it today without being ostracised. However, I don't think this is true. 50+ years ago homosexuality was deemed to be morally repugnant and was rarely even an issue that was brought to the public eye - so even if there were men who, for example, had an incomplete identification with their own gender, seeking to complete it through same sex relationships was not really a viable option. My guess is that many probably never even thought to do that  and hence never even really experienced same sex attraction because of the way society treated homosexuality and its lack of visibility in society and so instead sought to complete their identification with their own gender in other ways (or simply left it unresolved). Or if they did think about it, it would be a fleeting thought/attraction and they'd quickly move on from it. I don't think there would've been a life-long suppression of same sex attraction/feelings sort of scenario on the part of most of these people. I'm sure there were still some cases like this - that there were people who did seriously think of/consider homosexuality and were really attracted to the same sex and were simply forced to suppress it due to the way society regarded homosexuality, but I'm inclined to thinking that this wasn't generally the case. Ofcourse, this is all speculation and I may be wrong. This kind of argument also presupposes that being gay is not natural/genetic, which I'm inclined to believe. I believe being gay is more a result of social conditioning than anything else - of seeing homosexuality as a norm and thinking hey maybe I can deal with my unresolved feelings in that way.

Yes, repression is real. The fact that homosexuality was "taboo" 50 years ago doesn't mean it was less common. It was precisely as the "other side" says - people hid. You say it wasn't a viable option; perhaps not in the way it is today but one's concept of viability becomes much more flexible when the stakes are high.

And how is gayness socially conditioned when children have only recently started being reared to even talk about it? How does it have anything to do with incomplete gender identification? I've never felt like a woman or less than a man, EVER. That's usually the thing that throws straights off - they attempt to treat me like an honorary girl and I shut them down QUICKLY and not always politely depending on how they approach me.

I say, if someone doesn't want to be gay, then let them try not to be. But they'd better not pretend all of us share their issues.

Edited by Al-Moqanna, 22 February 2012 - 09:45 PM.

[MuslimWithSSA]

 Al-Moqanna, on 22 February 2012 - 09:43 PM, said:

How does it have anything to do with incomplete gender identification? I've never felt like a woman or less than a man, EVER.

Peace be on you Al-Moqanna,

Its a hard thing to comment on though.  I mean, none of us has any alternative point of reference given that we've only ever lived our own lives.  So to say that you've never felt less than a man presupposes that you've already lived a life as a fully heterosexual male and now, in this life, you are certain that you do not feel any different in your masculinity to how you felt then.  Please correct me if I've misunderstood.

But you are right, everyone has different issues that has resulted in their homosexuality.  The more people I listen to, the more I realise there isn't a cookie cutter approach to things, human psychology is complicated, which explains why we need to be so careful in the formative years of our children to what they are physically and emotionally exposed to.

Ultimately our bodies are set up to reproduce heterosexually...some of our minds aren't oriented in that way.  Is it a case of the mind needing to catch up with and match maturation of the body?

Edited by MuslimWithSSA, 12 April 2012 - 08:52 PM.

[AlwaysChangingHisUserName]

I know a Muslim brother that is gay.  He says that he is only attracted to other men, but he is proudly celibate and will remain that way for his entire life (or until he starts feeling attraction towards women).  He recognizes that homosexuality is forbidden in Islam, and won't commit the acts, but I don't think he can control his sexuality.  I have a lot of respect for him for doing the right thing, despite his desires.

Now, if only we could get straight brothers to lower their gaze . . .

[Fatima Hussain]

I have nothing to comment on this other than...may Allah bless you.  Allah has given you such great knowledge and patience to deal with your feelings, and insha'Allah, you will be able to help others as well.  May Allah grant you reward in this life and the Hereafter!  Ameen.  I have nothing but respect for you.