41 replies to this topic

[thecontentedself]

icewizard, on 25 January 2012 - 06:17 AM, said:

السلام عليكم و رحمة الله و بركاته - Peace be upon you as well as Allah's Mercy and Blessings...
و لصلاة و السلام على خير خلق الله و حبيب قلوبنا، الرسول محمد، و آله الطيبين الطاهرين - And may the Prayers and Peace be upon the Best of Allah's Creations, the beloved of our hearts, the Messenger Muhammad as well as his Generous and Pure Family...
و لعنة الله الدائمة على أعداءهم و ظالميهم و التابعين على ذلك من الأولين إلى الآخرين - And may the permanent curse of Allah be upon their enemies and their oppressors and those who follow the trend from the first ones to the last ones...

May Allah -swt- grant our scholars more knowledge and a long and healthy life...
Sayyid Mahmud al-Hashemi al-Shahrudi -ha- just relocated in Najaf to get back to scholarship and focus on religion, and not politics...

Am i dreaming or are mostly the people who criticize the najafi scholars for their stance and way of doing things "pro-WF"?

We can find "quiet" (if that's the word you use) scholars in Qom (Shaikh Wahid al-Khursani -ra-, Sayyid Muhammad Sadeq al-Ruhani -ha-, Sayyid Sadeq al-Shirazi -ra-) too are "quiet"...

Of course, i put the word between quotes because the scholars cannot be heard by those who don't want to hear them...

If you want to listen to Sayyid Ali al-Sistani's -ha- word, then tune or Karbala TV for Friday Prayer and listen to the Friday Prayer Khutbas (Speeches) in Karbala of his representatives like Shaikh Abdul-Mahdi al-Karbalaei -ha- (Secretary General of the Holy Imam al-Husayn -as- Shrine) or Sayyid Ahmad al-Safi -ha- (Secretary General of the Holy Abul-Fadhl al-Abbas -as- Shrine)... And there you will get their word...

و عليكم السلام و رحمة الله و بركاته - And upon you be Peace as well as Allah's Mercy and Blessings...

wa alaykum al salam brother

ahsant on your words of support.

and yes, you are right to point out that those people ''critisize'' the Najafi school are mostly in support of the idea of wilayat-ul-faqih and islamic governement, who would not be?

firstly, I don't see the issue with constructive critisizm. where would we be if it were not for people wanting to evolve and develop in a positive direction?

second, why do you limit the circle of influence of our scholars to khums payments and friday sermons? is that how we are meant to adhere to the path of the Imams and the Holy Prophet ? is that how you interpret their message? why can't we have religious institutions involved in the evolution of society?

third, I'll give you a little fact, as an iraqi and living with iraqis and one who knows iraqis... fact is, iraqis don't want to take lessons from anyone. no matter how sincere you are, as an iraqi or non iraqi, about wanting to help improve the situation in that country, they just don't wanna know. they are a stubborn lot. the most stubborn I've ever seen. most iraqis put their own personal interests  before that of the country and the development and protection of their religion.

ya akhi at least clean your streets! cleanliness is a large part of our faith, yet you see the mess and dirt in the streets it's embarrasing and very sad. And of course, it's always somebody else's fault! Nobody takes responsibility for their actions!!

where is their faith brother? what good are these friday sermons if they don't cause a revolution in the iraqis themselves??

[P. Ease]

During civil disturbance, adopt such an attitude that people do not attach any importance to you - they neither burden you with complicated affairs, nor try to derive any advantage out of you. - Ameer Ul Mumineen , in Nahj Ul Balagha

[baradar_jackson]

thecontentedself, on 25 January 2012 - 08:05 AM, said:

third, I'll give you a little fact, as an iraqi and living with iraqis and one who knows iraqis... fact is, iraqis don't want to take lessons from anyone. no matter how sincere you are, as an iraqi or non iraqi, about wanting to help improve the situation in that country, they just don't wanna know. they are a stubborn lot. the most stubborn I've ever seen. most iraqis put their own personal interests  before that of the country and the development and protection of their religion.

ya akhi at least clean your streets! cleanliness is a large part of our faith, yet you see the mess and dirt in the streets it's embarrasing and very sad. And of course, it's always somebody else's fault! Nobody takes responsibility for their actions!!

You can replace "Iraqis" with "Iranians" and the above collection of words would make just as much sense.

P. Ease, on 25 January 2012 - 08:18 AM, said:

During civil disturbance, adopt such an attitude that people do not attach any importance to you - they neither burden you with complicated affairs, nor try to derive any advantage out of you. - Ameer Ul Mumineen , in Nahj Ul Balagha

Well if that's what Sayyed Sistani is doing, it didn't work. Can you think of a single marja more used and abused by propagandists of every variety, than Sayyed Sistani?!?!?!

[Gypsy]

baradar_jackson, on 25 January 2012 - 10:15 AM, said:

Well if that's what Sayyed Sistani is doing, it didn't work. Can you think of a single marja more used and abused by propagandists of every variety, than Sayyed Sistani?!?!?!

S. Khamenei? He gets more abuse and insults thrown against him than S. Sistani.

[baradar_jackson]

Gypsy, on 25 January 2012 - 10:20 AM, said:

S. Khamenei? He gets more abuse and insults thrown against him than S. Sistani.

Who said anything about insults and abuse? We're talking about something else.

Because of Sayyed Sistani being almost universally respected amongst Shias, his name and face is used by various forces to legitimize whatever it is they want to do. Some use his name to get khums money they have no right to be given, some use his name to legitimize policies in Iraq which he doesn't truly approve of, etc...

That's what I meant.

[Gypsy]

baradar_jackson, on 25 January 2012 - 10:37 AM, said:

Because of Sayyed Sistani being almost universally respected amongst Shias, his name and face is used by various forces to legitimize whatever it is they want to do. Some use his name to get khums money they have no right to be given, some use his name to legitimize policies in Iraq which he doesn't truly approve of, etc...

I have seen a few cases of what you describe as ill gotten khums money but I haven't yet seen a mass fraud being committed using his name.

As for the political gain derived by someone using his name, doesn't this topic speak for itself?

[Gypsy]

Mushu, on 25 January 2012 - 02:29 PM, said:

To an extent, the Khoei Foundation could be accused of doing so.

What do you mean? Can you back up your claim by providing some sources.

Edited by Gypsy, 25 January 2012 - 02:48 PM.

[Gypsy]

I see. I have seen a number of past discussions on what you mention in your post and I think lets just leave at that.

It's best to get back to this topic and discuss the future of Najaf/

A few weeks ago, a trusted brother mentioned that the Shia scholarship is dying in Najaf. What he means by Shia scholarship is not the actual students in Howzah (that would definitely increase) but the senior level Ayatullahs and the mid tier clerics. Is this possible?

Edited by Gypsy, 25 January 2012 - 05:56 PM.

[DeeeeeBo]

Najaf never has been quiet

People are just deaf

that's the difference in all honesty

Salams

[thecontentedself]

there's a mishmash of topics in this thread, the OP is concerened with the socio-political activisim of the Najafi/Karbalai religious elite.

Nobody is denying the fact that they are active or the fact that they've got a say in Iraqi politics.

The issue is historic and runs much deeper than we can fathom.

[John Al-Ameli]

icewizard, on 25 January 2012 - 06:17 AM, said:

If you want to listen to Sayyid Ali al-Sistani's -ha- word, then tune or Karbala TV for Friday Prayer and listen to the Friday Prayer Khutbas (Speeches) in Karbala of his representatives like Shaikh Abdul-Mahdi al-Karbalaei -ha- (Secretary General of the Holy Imam al-Husayn -as- Shrine) or Sayyid Ahmad al-Safi -ha- (Secretary General of the Holy Abul-Fadhl al-Abbas -as- Shrine)... And there you will get their word...

و عليكم السلام و رحمة الله و بركاته - And upon you be Peace as well as Allah's Mercy and Blessings...

If you pass by any Sunni mosque as well, they give thrilling Khutba in the friday prayer.

[labbaikkhamenai]

Thats probably because they think, politics is not a part of religion.

AA

[Gypsy]

Don't you guys know that on numerous occasion, Sistani has talked about Iraqi politics. I can give you a few examples. But you need to help me find others.

Iraqi constution
Iraqi elections and women participating in electoral
The brotherhood of Shia and Sunni in Iraq
Security of Iraq

What else. I know that they are more that this.

Edited by Gypsy, 26 January 2012 - 05:49 PM.

[Waiting for HIM]

Here are a few examples of Ay. Sistani involving in Iraq politics. I just googled them. I won't trust everything which is on google and reported by western agencies, since Ay. Seestani does not mostly see western journalists and the news sources are mostly fasiqeen and according to Quran any news which comes to us from them needs to be verified by a sincere source.

http://www.newschool...ato-sistani.pdf
http://www.foreignpo...WP6--Rahimi.pdf

http://www.time.com/...1108867,00.html
http://wwrn.org/arti...ion=legislation
http://www.outsideth...aq_constitution
http://www.commondre...s04/0327-01.htm
http://www.lastsuper...cs/sistani/view
http://www.americasd....php/t5804.html

[Replicant]

At the OP's request, I am closing this topic.