18 replies to this topic

[Muntaqim Force]

One of my colleague (non muslim) gave me one link to read and reply. I was able to clear few answers but some i could not. The link is  http://www.biblebeli....au/moongod.htm.

Part which i could not find way to answer is ;

"Is it any wonder then that the symbol of Islam is the crescent moon? That a crescent moon sits on top of their mosques and minarets? That a crescent moon is found on the flags of Islamic nations? That the Muslims fast during the month which begins and ends with the appearance of the crescent moon in the sky? "

[Maula Dha Mallang]

load of nonsense. the crescent/star symbol has nothing to do with islam and everything to do with the ottoman empire it was their symbol, nothing to do with the prophet.

FALSE CLAIMS IN THE ARTICLE

(1) islam follows the trinity

apart from Allah, who are the other two that we worship? "thee alone do we worship" - surah fateha

(2) the moon god "sin" worship

we are already aware that pagans worshipped idols. where is the link between an idol and Allah? a moon symbol that has nothing to do with islam? in christianity for example, there is plenty of evidence that the jesus story is ripped off from previous stories of horus/adonis/dionysus/mithras. where is the link in islam between Allah and moon worship?

do we prostrate to the moon?

do we pray to the moon?

do we give sacrifice to the moon?

(3) "al ilah" means "the deity"

do we only worship Allah during certain phases of the moon?

[DhulQarnain]

Until Istanbul became the Capital of the Caliphate, the Moon was not an islamic sign.

[xstatik2]

Maula Dha Mallang, on 12 January 2012 - 09:08 AM, said:

load of nonsense. the crescent/star symbol has nothing to do with islam and everything to do with the ottoman empire it was their symbol, nothing to do with the prophet.

Biddat ?

[Muntaqim Force]

Brother Maula da Malang yeah those points i was able to explain and show him how falsely the author presented muslim views but this crescent bit was disturbing. I did not knew about Ottoman's insertion of this symbol.

Also regarding the word Allah, they say it is not mention in any other divine book. In talmut word Elioh is present but that does not mean Allah but God which can be used for anyone's god. They say if someone say in front of a muslim word God, they do not like it but prefer to say Allah, then why muslims want Elioh for Allah. They say in bible name for God is Yawah.

[Maula Dha Mallang]

if i was to say, lets use the example "jesus is a carbon copy of the story of mithras", i would then present my arguments:

- jesus was born to a virgin, mithras was born to a virgin
- jesus turned water to wine, mithras turned water to wine
- jesus is the son of god, mithras is the son of god
- jesus had 12 disciples, mithras had 12 disciples
- jesus was betrayed, mithras was betrayed
- jesus was crucified, mithras was crucified
- jesus resurrected, mithras resurrected

so this would be my argument.

can a christian do similar, and say muslims actually worship the moon/ moon god/ any idol?

[titumir]

The founder of the Ottoman Empire, once saw a dream, in which he was sleeping under a tree with crescent shaped leaves. Then a leaf fell to his chest and entered it. The dream is very convoluted and long, and anyway, basically he understood that the crescent shaped leaf stood for his beloved. When he went to her father and told her father his dream story, his father agreed to their marriage. Then after that he founded the Ottoman Empire, and chose the crescent moon as its symbol.

[Saintly_Jinn23]

Maula Dha Mallang, on 12 January 2012 - 10:44 AM, said:

if i was to say, lets use the example "jesus is a carbon copy of the story of mithras", i would then present my arguments:

- jesus was born to a virgin, mithras was born to a virgin
- jesus turned water to wine, mithras turned water to wine
- jesus is the son of god, mithras is the son of god
- jesus had 12 disciples, mithras had 12 disciples
- jesus was betrayed, mithras was betrayed
- jesus was crucified, mithras was crucified
- jesus resurrected, mithras resurrected

so this would be my argument.

can a christian do similar, and say muslims actually worship the moon/ moon god/ any idol?

Really, Mithraism and Roman Christianity developed side by side so it is hard who adopted from whom. There is substantial proof that Roman pagans, as Christianity spread, began to incorporate the "Christ-god" into their rituals.

Also, Jesus was born of a virgin according to Islam, so we can't say that Christianity adopted it from Mithraism.


As to "Allah" being a moon god. First of all, as previously stated, the crescent, though was used in decorative jewelry before the Ottoman caliphate, did not become an "official symbol" until the Ottomans. Before that, it was a decorative piece adopted from Sassanid culture and was more of something that women wore on their jewelry than it an official religious symbol to place atop of mosques, which wasn't so up until the Ottoman periods, when it was adopted due to its long present decorative appeal and due to an association the Ottoman's chose to give it to symbolize the Hijrah calendar.

As to Allah being Sin, there's no proof the Muslims made this association with Sin or any moon god for that matter other than the chapter "Ya Sin" which if people did their research would realize the "Ya" and the "Sin" are actually LETTERS ('Sin' is one of the letters of the Arabic alphabet), the abbreviations for which they mean have been debated many times. Allow me to put it this way: the letters "Ya" and "Sin" occur many times in the Quran and the Arabic language in general for words irrespective of any affiliation or themes pertaining to the moon or lunar deities. Yet because the name of an Akkadian (Semitic) god can be transliterated into English (a non-Semitic language) using the same letters as the transliteration of the name of a LETTER in the Arabic alphabet (a Semtic alphabet) and these two transliterations are without the diacritical marks, individuals who promote this theory that the god of Islam is a lunar deity are saying that every use of the letter "Sin" in Arabic is the recitation of the name of an Akkadian lunar deity. There is absolutely no proof that even the pagan Arabs who worshipped lunar deities made this association.

In one verse of the Quran, the gods of the people of Prophet Noah are mentioned:

Nuh said: "My Lord! Surely they have disobeyed me and followed him whose wealth and children have added to him nothing but loss. And they have planned a very great plan. And they say: 'By no means leave your gods, nor leave [the gods] Wadd, nor Suwa; nor Yaghus, and Yauq and Nasr.' --Surah 71:21

The god mentioned named Wadd was the moon god of the Minaeans in Muhammad's time. Allah was not even seen as the moon god by the pagans who worshipped him ALONGSIDE moon gods at Mecca! Muhammad condemned all the moon worshippers' lunar deities as false and there is no evidence to show that any moon worship or lunar temples of any kind were set up by Muhammad. Given the historical custom of pagans associating their deities of various natural celestial and terrestrial bodies with those of other cultures, even among the Arabs (we have evidence that the Greek gods such as Aphrodite were worshiped under very different Arabic names yet the two names were associated with the same deity), if there is any deity mentioned in the Quran that Arabs would have associated with the Akkadian moon god Sin, it is Wadd, and this deity is condemned in the Quran itself!


For more clarification, here is a Yemeni Jew who speaks Arabic, Hebrew, and Aramaic confirming himself that Allah is not the name of a moon god, but merely the Arabic form of a Hebrew word for God, and that the associations that ignorant Christians try to make linguistically to "prove" that "Allah" is the name of a moon god is not only false, but also unwittingly condemns the same Hebrew god they claim to worship.

[Lanatin]

One of the most laughable polemics to be projected by the missionaries since the demise of William Muir, this nonsense has been thoroughly refuted by academics in the field of archaeology and the explicit statements of the Quran itself.

[Son of Placid]

No idea which missionaries spewed a moon god story.

I never heard of it before I came to Shia chat.

[Haydar Husayn]

[Saintly_Jinn23]

Son of Placid, on 12 January 2012 - 10:44 PM, said:

No idea which missionaries spewed a moon god story.

I never heard of it before I came to Shia chat.

you don't go on very many other websites, do you?

[Muntaqim Force]

Haydar Husayn, on 12 January 2012 - 11:06 PM, said:

This video was very helpful

JazakAllah brother

Brother Saintly Jinn's post too was very helpful and had impact on my friend.

[Son of Placid]

Saintly_Jinn23, on 12 January 2012 - 11:41 PM, said:

you don't go on very many other websites, do you?

Well, I already know better so I wouldn't go looking for it.

[rotten_coconut]

Son of Placid, on 12 January 2012 - 10:44 PM, said:

No idea which missionaries spewed a moon god story.

I never heard of it before I came to Shia chat.

See the refutation here: http://www.islamic-a...ah/moongod.html
You can also read here the accusations of the moon god

[MCDialog]

Son of Placid, on 12 January 2012 - 10:44 PM, said:

No idea which missionaries spewed a moon god story.

I never heard of it before I came to Shia chat.

Your bro in Christ, Dr. Robert Morey wrote a book titled " The Moon God Allah in the Archaeology of the Middle East " in which he attempt to point out that Allah is a the Moon God of Ancient Arab... Alhamduililah our SUNNI debater Shabir Ally gave logical and convincing replies ..

Bro Shabir has also written a booklet titled " Reply to Dr. Robert Morey's Moon God Myth and other deceptive attacks on Islam

http://www.islamic-a...h/moongods.html

He also debated and destroyed Dr. Robert Morey on the same topic " Is the God of Islam a true or false God?

Edited by MCDialog, 21 January 2012 - 02:11 PM.

[Haydar Husayn]

Robert Morey is a joke.

[Son of Placid]

^{Uh, yeah, my "Bro in Christ" list isn't that long. Actually the trinitarians took me off their list a while ago. I'm okay with it tho.}