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Worst Hijab


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#76 Çåá ÇáÈíÊ

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Posted 24 December 2011 - 09:04 PM

View PostHaydar Husayn, on 24 December 2011 - 08:38 PM, said:



Why do you continue to ignore the ahadith I posted? You can't just dismiss them for no reason.

Please read this article:

http://www.irfi.org/...ndate_hijab.htm

------

Can you prove to me that all women, during the period of the Imams, wore the headscarf? One of the wives of Imam Al Hussein (a) was Persian. Did she wear the headscarf?
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Posted 24 December 2011 - 09:22 PM

Also, read this article:

http://www.altmuslim...a/b/print/3067/
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Posted 24 December 2011 - 09:52 PM

Wow.

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Posted 24 December 2011 - 10:01 PM

View PostEndlessEndeavor, on 24 December 2011 - 09:52 PM, said:

Wow.

That's not a reasonable response. It's just an emotionally spontaneous response. If the 'headscarf' was very 'clearly' stipulated in the Quran or Narratives, and not so abstract and ambiguous, then you wouldn't have expressed yourself with a 'wow'. It would have been something substantial which could fully convince me. But no.

Edited by Çåá ÇáÈíÊ, 24 December 2011 - 10:01 PM.

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Posted 24 December 2011 - 10:07 PM

Is this a clear narrative?
– And from Muhammad b. Yahya from Ahmad b. Muhammad b. `Isa from Maruk b. `Ubayd from some of our companions from Abu `Abdillah عليه السلام. He said: I said to him: What is allowed for the man to see from the woman when he is not mahram? He said: The face, the two hands, and the two feet.

Yes or No will suffice..

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Posted 24 December 2011 - 10:12 PM

View PostEndlessEndeavor, on 24 December 2011 - 10:07 PM, said:

Is this a clear narrative?
– And from Muhammad b. Yahya from Ahmad b. Muhammad b. `Isa from Maruk b. `Ubayd from some of our companions from Abu `Abdillah عليه السلام. He said: I said to him: What is allowed for the man to see from the woman when he is not mahram? He said: The face, the two hands, and the two feet.

Yes or No will suffice..

No.
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Posted 24 December 2011 - 10:14 PM

View Postاهل البيت, on 24 December 2011 - 10:12 PM, said:

No.

Now please elaborate with clear reasons as to why this narrative is not sufficient or not enough evidence for you. (There are many many more narrations but let us begin this with one)

#83 Haydar Husayn

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Posted 24 December 2011 - 10:18 PM

View Postاهل البيت, on 24 December 2011 - 09:04 PM, said:

Can you prove to me that all women, during the period of the Imams, wore the headscarf? One of the wives of Imam Al Hussein (a) was Persian. Did she wear the headscarf?

What difference does it make if everyone wore it or not? We have many explicit ahadith that Muslim women must wear it The articles you linked to don't even attempt to deal with the Sunni ahadith, let alone ours.

Why would the wife of an Imam not wear the headscarf, when the wives of the Prophet (pbuh) used to wear a faceveil, as did Fatima (as), her daughters, and grandaughters.
And they serve beside Allah what can neither harm them nor profit them, and they say: These are our intercessors with Allah. Say: Do you (presume to) inform Allah of what He knows not in the heavens and the earth? Glory be to Him, and supremely exalted is He above what they set up (with Him). [Qur'an 10:18, Shakir translation]

Now, surely, sincere obedience is due to Allah (alone) and (as for) those who take guardians besides Him, (saying), We do not serve them save that they may make us nearer to Allah, surely Allah will judge between them in that in which they differ; surely Allah does not guide him aright who is a liar, ungrateful. [Qur'an 39:3, Shakir translation]

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Posted 25 December 2011 - 11:10 AM

View PostEndlessEndeavor, on 24 December 2011 - 10:14 PM, said:

Now please elaborate with clear reasons as to why this narrative is not sufficient or not enough evidence for you. (There are many many more narrations but let us begin this with one)

How do you know the face doesn't include the hair? You know, it would be so helpful if the question could have been posed like this: 'What is not allowed for the man to see from the woman when he is not mahram?'

View PostHaydar Husayn, on 24 December 2011 - 10:18 PM, said:

What difference does it make if everyone wore it or not? We have many explicit ahadith that Muslim women must wear it The articles you linked to don't even attempt to deal with the Sunni ahadith, let alone ours.

Why would the wife of an Imam not wear the headscarf, when the wives of the Prophet (pbuh) used to wear a faceveil, as did Fatima (as), her daughters, and grandaughters.

Let me reiterate. We don't have any explicit narration that instructs women to wear the 'headscarf'. If we did, you would have presented it to me by now.

The women of AhlulBayt (as) may have worn the face veil because they were special personalities. We can never ascertain for sure whether or not the mother of the 4th Imam (a) wore the headscarf or not but if she did she was the wife of an Imam so she had to dress in a specific way.

How about the general muslim women during that period, did they wear the headscarf?
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Posted 25 December 2011 - 11:13 AM

You are seriously clutching at straws. How can the face include the hair? It is as clear as you want. You are just choosing not to see.

I don't know of anyone who when mentioning the face includes the hair on the head. Must only be you.

Edited by EndlessEndeavor, 25 December 2011 - 11:14 AM.


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Posted 26 December 2011 - 05:39 PM

View PostEndlessEndeavor, on 25 December 2011 - 11:13 AM, said:

You are seriously clutching at straws. How can the face include the hair? It is as clear as you want. You are just choosing not to see.

I don't know of anyone who when mentioning the face includes the hair on the head. Must only be you.

It's debatable. Tell me, why wasn't the Imam (as) more explicit? Why doesn't he mention the word 'hair' anywhere in the traditions?
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#87 Haydar Husayn

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Posted 28 December 2011 - 09:48 AM

View Postاهل البيت, on 26 December 2011 - 05:39 PM, said:

It's debatable. Tell me, why wasn't the Imam (as) more explicit? Why doesn't he mention the word 'hair' anywhere in the traditions?

2 – And from Muhammad b. Isma`il from al-Fadl b. Shadhan and from Abu `Ali al-Ash`ari from Muhammad b. `Abd al-Jabbar, all from Safwan b. Yahya from `Abd ar-Rahman b. al-Hajjaj. He said: I asked Abu Ibrahim عليه السلام about the girl who has not attained (i.e. bulugh), when does it behoove her to cover her head from he who between her and him there is no mahram (i.e. they are not related in such as manner as would make marriage prohibited between them), and when is it obligatory upon her to veil her head for salat? He said: She does not cover her head until salat becomes haram upon her. (i.e. when she menstruates)

3 – Muhammad b. `Ali b. al-Husayn by his isnad from Ahmad b. Muhammad b. Abi Nasr from ar-Rida عليه السلام. He said: The boy is taken by salat when he is seven years old, and the woman does not cover her hair from him until he hits puberty (or, has a nocturnal emission).

4 - `Abdullah b. Ja`far in Qurb al-Isnad from Ahmad b. Muhammad b. `Isa from Ahmad b. Muhammad b. Abi Nasr from ar-Rida عليه السلام. He said: The woman does not cover her head from the boy until the boy becomes baligh.

http://www.tashayyu....ies/chapter-126


1 – Muhammad b. Ya`qub from `Ali b. Ibrahim from his father from an-Nawfali from as-Sakuni from Abu `Abdillah عليه السلام.  He said: The Messenger of Allah صلى الله عليه وآله said: There is no prohibition (or, respect) for the women of the people of dhimma that one look at their hair and their arms.
http://www.tashayyu....ies/chapter-112

1 – Muhammad b. Ya`qub from a number of our companions from Ahmad b. Muhammad b. `Isa from Ibn Mahbub from `Ibad b. Suhayb.  He said: I heard Abu `Abdillah عليه السلام saying: There is no harm in looking at the heads of the people of Tihamah and the Bedouins (al-a`rab) and the rural (?) people (ahl as-sawad) and the heathens (al-`uluj), for when they are prohibited they do not refrain.  He said: And the insane woman and the woman whose intellect is overpowered, there is no harm with looking at her hair and her body so long as one does not intend that.
http://www.tashayyu....ies/chapter-113

There wouldn't be much point in making exceptions for these groups of people if you could look at the head/hair of any woman.


Now AB, please grow up. Stop questioning things based on reading the writings of people who have a disease in their hearts which inclines them towards rejecting what is obligatory in Islam. There are so many things you could legitimitly question, and you choose things which have rock solid foundations. I mean, look at the type of arguments you are reduced to in your response to EndlessEndeavour above. The fact that the face does not include the hair is not at all debatable.


And on a seperate note, step away from these mushrik beliefs I have seen you advocating here and there with regards to the Imams (as). You are putting your akhira in danger on two seperate fronts here.

Edited by Haydar Husayn, 28 December 2011 - 09:49 AM.

And they serve beside Allah what can neither harm them nor profit them, and they say: These are our intercessors with Allah. Say: Do you (presume to) inform Allah of what He knows not in the heavens and the earth? Glory be to Him, and supremely exalted is He above what they set up (with Him). [Qur'an 10:18, Shakir translation]

Now, surely, sincere obedience is due to Allah (alone) and (as for) those who take guardians besides Him, (saying), We do not serve them save that they may make us nearer to Allah, surely Allah will judge between them in that in which they differ; surely Allah does not guide him aright who is a liar, ungrateful. [Qur'an 39:3, Shakir translation]

#88 Sayyida Zaynab M.

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Posted 30 December 2011 - 07:05 AM

View Postاهل البيت, on 19 December 2011 - 11:14 PM, said:

My God, this is so very true.

The way each culture and environment perceive what modesty constitutes varies, each perception is circumstantial to the norms of that society. Over years of empirical observations, from a westerner's perspective, I've realised that women in the west who dress casually with a short sleeve jumper and tight jeans are treated with equal amount of respect and dignity as a woman wearing the burka or hijab would. Why? Simply because it is the cultural norm, this is how the society perceives modesty. People have literally become desensitized to over the top modesty, it is deemed as unnecessary. It doesn't make a difference how you approach modesty in the western world, the fact is that the equality rights bar has already been raised so high.

Likewise, in the conservative parts of the middle east, a woman who takes off her headscarf and opts for relatively modest western attire would be seen as a social outcast, a woman who lacks morality and chastity. The reason for this is because the society has been gradually brainwashed into believing that what you wear correlates with the type of person you are which, in reality, is the wrong way of thinking. They're usually disparate from one another. Surely, it is absurd to think that every woman who wears relatively appropriate clothing, in the western sense, is susceptible to abuse or rape. Sure, it can happen but generally it's just not true. In reality, those who wear the hijab in the middle east aren't immune either from a type of abuse and subjection either, which is ironic to say the least. Also, when you view the world pragmatically, do you actually think that the headscarf acts as a barrier to opposite gender attraction. No, because they guys who were brought up in that culture are psychologically adapted to it, it doesn't make a difference to them.

This is why I strongly believe that Hijab can be practiced in numerous ways and that they are all legitimate avenues of practising modesty. Let's be realistic. If you are a male living in the west, you will know that your social interactions with hijabi and non-hijabi girls are practically the same, Muslims bring forth the excuse that a woman who doesn't cover her hair will be seen as more attractive and seductive, but this is not true and totally subjective. Hijabi woman with pretty faces can also garner the same attention. Likewise, they can both be respected. No matter how a women adopts modesty, as long as it covers the necessary parts it still serves the same purpose.

When I look for a prospective partner, I will not judge based on worst hijab, good hijab or no hijab because this is all psychological bias and irrelevant to me. There are far more important criteria matches to be met rather than something as peripheral as this.

You may not entirely agree with me but, at the end of the day, I'm depicting the raw truth. Other opinions contrary to this are just subjective, in all honesty.


Brother ^ Allah is All Knowing.
Allah has placed responsibilities and duties for both male and females in this world. A women has the maternal position therefore tends to have a more feeble physic. In return for this dependable woman’s role, men are given the responsibility of providing for the woman and family-- food, clothes and shelter. Therefore, their physical built must be bulkier in order to accomplish this duty. Our differences only reflect our position in society, and are not the result of an unjust system.

On the concept of hijab, a woman’s feeble physic also allows them to have a more physically appealing appearance. Allah has granted women this beauty firstly as a test, in order to test both genders in their ability to control their worldly desires. Both genders as stated in the Quran 24:31 must lower their gazes. Because women are given this beauty, their major test is to cover themselves and not put herself on display for strange men to view.

When women do not cover themselves, they are causing haraam for both themselves and for men who lay eyes on them. Men do not have this beauty however their test is more difficult, they must protect themselves from gazing at non-mahraam women. Men tend to have different emotional responses to certain things then women do, therefore guarding themselves from their heightened senses is part of this test women do not have to face. In a way, women should be grateful. Compared to men, a woman’s test is more simple.

You must understand that none of our judgment calls can even compare to the reasoning behind Allah's commands. Allah never makes anything Haraam or Halal on us with out a reason, because Allah is just. Hijab is one of Allah's commands, if we do not fully understand the purpose for Hijab; we should wait and educate ourselves before making broad and general claims that can be unintentionally a misguidance that leads to a divergence in the faith.

We must have a solid background and foundation before we are able to make certain claims of whether issues in Islam are necessary or unnecessary. Before we can even utter a word, we must make sure every basis and even the implications of our claims are according to Islamic law.

One misguidance can lead to a completely diverged sect of Islam. See the Ismaili Shias for example; they diverged on the sixth imam. If even the basis of the false idea were halted at its origin, we wouldn't have this completely different sect.
So be careful when you say:

“This is why I strongly believe that Hijab can be practiced in numerous ways and that they are all legitimate avenues of practising modesty.”

Moreover, Hijab isn’t only modesty.
Hijab is protection. It acts as a protective barrier against those who don’t necessarily see the world through specifically your eyes. You must understand that just because you may not find a woman’s hair to be attractive, it does not mean other men have the same emotional triggers as you do.

Your statement that ‘every man living in the west, will have the same social interactions with a hijabi and non-hijabi” is a broad and generalized assumption. The west, regardless of how open-minded and educated they may be, will always have their animalistic emotions.

Your statement assumes that every western man is the same, and there is no man looking at a non-hijabi with evil intentions. Regardless of how educated a society may be, there will always be evildoers.

Islam protects us from all forms of evil and sets up the perfect societal system for us to follow. Only recently has this “advanced western society” learned to give women the equal rights to males, while Islam had implemented this equality from day one.
With this simple piece of cloth, Allah not only protects both women and men with the hijab, but also empowers women, and gives them an equal position in society to males. This so-called “advanced western society” degrades the value of women with their over objectification of the female body.

In this society, women are seen and used more as objects rather then beings, thus the reason why it has become a norm for men to see exposed women. This norm doesn’t show the western male’s equal perception of covered and uncovered women, in reality it’s a portrayal of the western society’s destruction and debauchery of moral values. Seeing naked women has become so common, that men don’t even need to give any effort to quench their sinful desires.

Brother, to clear your misconception, hijab is not something women wear only for equal treatment. There is much more to the hijab then that.

We wear it firstly and most importantly, to please Allah(swt) because it is his command. Secondly, to protect others and ourselves from committing sin. Hijab acts as a preventative reminder to keep away from haram acts.

Hijab also gives women a more elevated and respected value in society. A woman’s body is her own private concern, not a cheap object to put on display for any man to gawk at.

Hijab also protects women from physical danger. Hijab detracts men from se*ually harassing women. According to the US RapeTrauma Services, ‘78 women (ages 18 and over) in the United States are forcibly raped every hour.’ Hijab completely removes this fear of physical abuse.

The more we sacrifice ourselves and our desires for the way of Islam and Allah, the more Hasanat we will be gaining for our afterlife. Allah never forgets the criticism and difficulties us Muslim women face on a day-to-day basis as the flag bearers of Islam. Hijab should be taken as an opportunity we have at Allah’s infinite mercy and vast rewards, that the male gender is not able to have.

Overall, us women are more blessed then we may perceive. Truly, Allah is All-knowing.

#89 Sayyida Zaynab M.

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Posted 30 December 2011 - 07:18 AM

View Postاهل البيت, on 26 December 2011 - 05:39 PM, said:

It's debatable. Tell me, why wasn't the Imam (as) more explicit? Why doesn't he mention the word 'hair' anywhere in the traditions?

@brother Emirates:

Brother Haydar is right, you need to be careful of what you say. Your questions fall along the borderline of blasphemy. Please be more considerate of your comments especially when they are directed toward Islam, and AllahÓÈÍÇäå æÊÚÇáì. If you dont understand something, you are more then welcome to ask, though maintain your respect because going too far astray can make your comments come off as blasphemous. And as stated in the Holy Quran, blasphemy is a sin Allah will never forgive.

#90 Zahraflower

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Posted 30 December 2011 - 01:32 PM

Asalam Alycome
BarakAllahu fekum for those who have tried to bring up the haq on Hijab. when looking at verses of the Holy Quran and the Ahadeth we need to have an understanding of the history. This was a time period were women wore a head covering it was a wide spread practice all over not only in the Arab world thus the verses came saying to cover the "chest & bosoms" because there was an understanding that the head is covered. I could go on more  on this issue but MasahAllah some of the brothers and sisters here spoke very well and I would just be repeating things so for the sake of not making this respond long i just wanted to leave with some advice from Allah(swt) in the Holy Quran:

“And it behoves not a believing man and a believing woman that they should have any choice in their matter when Allah and His Messenger have decided a matter; and whoever disobeys Allah and His Messenger, he [or she] surely strays off a manifest straying.” (33:36)
"It is not fitting for a Muslim man or woman to have any choice in their affairs when a matter has been decided for them by Allah and His Messenger. They have no option. If any one disobeys Allah and His Messenger, he is indeed on a wrong Path." 33:36

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Posted 30 December 2011 - 01:55 PM

Brother  اهل البيت,

Please watch this video, it won't even take 5 minutes of your time:


Your deeds alone are faithful: make them your refuge, for they alone will accompany you into the depths of the tomb - Rumi

حرفم حقِّ و حق هم مرگ

Check out this link for lectures in London: http://www.shiachat....ents-in-london/


Beautiful latmiya


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Posted 02 January 2012 - 11:19 AM

View PostSayyida Zaynab M., on 30 December 2011 - 07:05 AM, said:

Brother ^ Allah is All Knowing.
Allah has placed responsibilities and duties for both male and females in this world. A women has the maternal position therefore tends to have a more feeble physic. In return for this dependable woman’s role, men are given the responsibility of providing for the woman and family-- food, clothes and shelter. Therefore, their physical built must be bulkier in order to accomplish this duty. Our differences only reflect our position in society, and are not the result of an unjust system.

Yes, I comprehend this fully and I don't subscribe to the feminist ideology. There is clear distinction between the physical makeup and physique of male and female. God patterned it this way. We have also been given our own distinctive duties in life. Agreed to an extent.

View PostSayyida Zaynab M., on 30 December 2011 - 07:05 AM, said:

On the concept of hijab, a woman’s feeble physic also allows them to have a more physically appealing appearance. Allah has granted women this beauty firstly as a test, in order to test both genders in their ability to control their worldly desires. Both genders as stated in the Quran 24:31 must lower their gazes. Because women are given this beauty, their major test is to cover themselves and not put herself on display for strange men to view.

When women do not cover themselves, they are causing haraam for both themselves and for men who lay eyes on them. Men do not have this beauty however their test is more difficult, they must protect themselves from gazing at non-mahraam women. Men tend to have different emotional responses to certain things then women do, therefore guarding themselves from their heightened senses is part of this test women do not have to face. In a way, women should be grateful. Compared to men, a woman’s test is more simple.

Remember, I speak of modesty from the perspective that all the necessary parts are all covered properly but the hair can still be seen. Men are attracted to pretty faces, which are on display even with the hijab, and also the hair, but this doesn't ignite the carnal desires of every mature individual. The attraction would be pure, not lustful, and it wouldn't act as a cause for disrespect of the woman. Considering women can dress modestly and even act modestly without the headscarf, all men need to do is to simply lower their gaze. If the man looks, he is at fault, not the women who is dressed in modest attire.


View PostSayyida Zaynab M., on 30 December 2011 - 07:05 AM, said:

You must understand that none of our judgment calls can even compare to the reasoning behind Allah's commands. Allah never makes anything Haraam or Halal on us with out a reason, because Allah is just. Hijab is one of Allah's commands, if we do not fully understand the purpose for Hijab; we should wait and educate ourselves before making broad and general claims that can be unintentionally a misguidance that leads to a divergence in the faith.

I've read books and articles about Hijab so i'm pretty up to date with my understanding of the philosophy that encompasses wearing it, but it's really all so subjective in nature. The issue lies in the fact that covering the body is not modest enough if the hair isn't covered too and this pertains to a fallacy in deductive reasoning. Is it actually believable that societies will disintegrate and collapse if women dress fully without covering their hair? It's this mentality of 'it's my way or the high way' which hardly seems to add up when you truly contemplate on it with an unbiased outlook.


View PostSayyida Zaynab M., on 30 December 2011 - 07:05 AM, said:

We must have a solid background and foundation before we are able to make certain claims of whether issues in Islam are necessary or unnecessary. Before we can even utter a word, we must make sure every basis and even the implications of our claims are according to Islamic law.

One misguidance can lead to a completely diverged sect of Islam. See the Ismaili Shias for example; they diverged on the sixth imam. If even the basis of the false idea were halted at its origin, we wouldn't have this completely different sect.
So be careful when you say:

“This is why I strongly believe that Hijab can be practiced in numerous ways and that they are all legitimate avenues of practising modesty.”

I don't think it's consistent to compare Ismaili Shia in context of Hijab. The basis of their idea stemmed from a difference in political judgment, they can't really offer a rational explanation on it. As for Hijab, as in the headscarf, the basis on my reasoning is logical so it's a moot point really.


View PostSayyida Zaynab M., on 30 December 2011 - 07:05 AM, said:

Moreover, Hijab isn’t only modesty.
Hijab is protection. It acts as a protective barrier against those who don’t necessarily see the world through specifically your eyes. You must understand that just because you may not find a woman’s hair to be attractive, it does not mean other men have the same emotional triggers as you do.

Yet, the hair doesn't stand on its own, the face is also another imperative factor related to it. I know for a fact that emotional triggers happen even if only the woman's charmingly charismatic face is showing and her hair is covered. It's all to do with relativity; you can't substantiate a specific conclusion that hair is the only rationale. No, in fact men do not deem all girls who show their hair to be a source of attraction.


View PostSayyida Zaynab M., on 30 December 2011 - 07:05 AM, said:

Your statement that ‘every man living in the west, will have the same social interactions with a hijabi and non-hijabi” is a broad and generalized assumption. The west, regardless of how open-minded and educated they may be, will always have their animalistic emotions.

Your statement assumes that every western man is the same, and there is no man looking at a non-hijabi with evil intentions. Regardless of how educated a society may be, there will always be evildoers.

I have a trouble understanding why you think men can't treat women equally and are always looking at them as objects of desire if they don't cover their head. From my observations, this is not absolutely true, especially considering my interactions with non-hijabi women.

Of course there will be men looking at non-hijabi with evil intentions, even if she is dressed appropriately, but you will also get men who look at hijabi women with ill intentions. Like you said, there will always be evildoers. But not everyone. So it varies.


View PostSayyida Zaynab M., on 30 December 2011 - 07:05 AM, said:

Islam protects us from all forms of evil and sets up the perfect societal system for us to follow. Only recently has this “advanced western society” learned to give women the equal rights to males, while Islam had implemented this equality from day one.
With this simple piece of cloth, Allah not only protects both women and men with the hijab, but also empowers women, and gives them an equal position in society to males. This so-called “advanced western society” degrades the value of women with their over objectification of the female body.

Muslims have a proclivity to correlating 'showing hair' with 'less value, being deemed as an object, not a person'. These attributes are in no way associated with hair, but body. If the body is not decently covered then these attributes are aligned. If the body is decently covered, even with the hair showing, then this doesn't exemplify those negative epithets.

Islam gave many rights to women, but it wasn't exactly the 'headscarf' which propelled these rights into existence. It was gradual reform. I don't even know if the headscarf is legislated in this religion. Pre-islamic arabian women covered their hair, yet they didn't have rights. Doesn't this tell you something? Its oxymoronic.


View PostSayyida Zaynab M., on 30 December 2011 - 07:05 AM, said:

In this society, women are seen and used more as objects rather then beings, thus the reason why it has become a norm for men to see exposed women. This norm doesn’t show the western male’s equal perception of covered and uncovered women, in reality it’s a portrayal of the western society’s destruction and debauchery of moral values. Seeing naked women has become so common, that men don’t even need to give any effort to quench their sinful desires.

I've elaborated on this already.

It’s interesting to note, though, that the process of desensitization goes to the extent that previous realities of taboos become ordinariness in society. I ponder on this, and weigh the positive and negative outcomes. It depends on the type of taboo in society and the scope of its effect.

If hair is perceived as a taboo in a certain situation, then through gradual exposure of it through media and environment, people will definitely become desensitized to it and this is an empirical fact. Does the exposure of hair have a profoundly negative effect on society? Not at all, and this is fact is verified just by looking at secular nations. On the other hand, revealing the body in a way that is incongruous to modest attire, acts as the catalyst which accentuates decadence in society. It’s not the hair alone.


View PostSayyida Zaynab M., on 30 December 2011 - 07:05 AM, said:

Brother, to clear your misconception, hijab is not something women wear only for equal treatment. There is much more to the hijab then that.

We wear it firstly and most importantly, to please Allah(swt) because it is his command. Secondly, to protect others and ourselves from committing sin. Hijab acts as a preventative reminder to keep away from haram acts.

I'm yet to affirm whether it really is the command of Allah(swt) for every woman in the world, in every culture and in every environment, to wear the headscarf.

In a way, the hijab does act as extra modesty which would consequently direct you to observe equal amount of modesty when it comes to social interactions and avoiding situations which would demean that extra modesty. I agree. Then again, who's to say that a woman who dresses modestly without a headscarf also can't avoid haram acts? It's not really true.


View PostSayyida Zaynab M., on 30 December 2011 - 07:05 AM, said:

Hijab also gives women a more elevated and respected value in society. A woman’s body is her own private concern, not a cheap object to put on display for any man to gawk at.

Yes, it gives you elevated value in certain environments but not all. As i mentioned previously, different cultures and evironments perceive hijab in a disparate cognition. There are places, such as europe in my opinion, where you will not be given a more elevated status just because you're wearing the hijab and respect is a given, no matter what.


View PostSayyida Zaynab M., on 30 December 2011 - 07:05 AM, said:

Hijab also protects women from physical danger. Hijab detracts men from se*ually harassing women. According to the US RapeTrauma Services, ‘78 women (ages 18 and over) in the United States are forcibly raped every hour.’ Hijab completely removes this fear of physical abuse.

You know, there's a saying: "Statistics are like loose women. Once you get them, they let you do what you want with them".

You see, the problem with a statistic like this is that it is highly ambiguous and lacks the extra details that are necessary in the context of your argument. For example, how do would I know if those women who are raped lead themselves into trouble in the first place, how can I ascertain whether these women are dressed provocatively or not, how do I know if the rapist is a serial rapist who rapes anyone and kills his victim etc?

Personally speaking, it's logical to say that a rapist doesn't really fit into the framework of this discussion as such due to the fact that a rapist obviously has psychological issues. A rapist would even rape a hijabi woman if he came in contact with such a person. Generally, normal guys are attracted to women but that doesn't lead them to raping a woman.

Another conundrum, how can I verify this bold claim that a rape happens every hour in the US alone? Is it really that ubiquitous? Or is this another case of the availability heuristic? http://en.wikipedia....ility_heuristic

As you can see, many factors have to be taken into account before even using this statistic as a tool to further your argument; otherwise such a statistic is futile to put forth in this context.


View PostSayyida Zaynab M., on 30 December 2011 - 07:05 AM, said:

The more we sacrifice ourselves and our desires for the way of Islam and Allah, the more Hasanat we will be gaining for our afterlife. Allah never forgets the criticism and difficulties us Muslim women face on a day-to-day basis as the flag bearers of Islam. Hijab should be taken as an opportunity we have at Allah’s infinite mercy and vast rewards, that the male gender is not able to have.

Overall, us women are more blessed then we may perceive. Truly, Allah is All-knowing.

I honestly don't have a qualm if a woman chooses to wear the headscarf, I treat everyone case by case as an individual, but it's just that I hate to see women who don't wear it being viewed in a negative light, even when the clothes they wear are not at all immodest.

View PostSayyida Zaynab M., on 30 December 2011 - 07:18 AM, said:

@brother Emirates:

Brother Haydar is right, you need to be careful of what you say. Your questions fall along the borderline of blasphemy. Please be more considerate of your comments especially when they are directed toward Islam, and Allahسبحانه وتعالى. If you dont understand something, you are more then welcome to ask, though maintain your respect because going too far astray can make your comments come off as blasphemous. And as stated in the Holy Quran, blasphemy is a sin Allah will never forgive.

Is it blasphemous to ask questions? Maybe my question came off as 'blasphemous' because it's questions like this that are never asked. You deemed the question as disrespect because you've already confirmed the concept of Hijab in your mind and perhaps thinking out of the box is dangerous to you. I don't know. I structured my question appropriately and there is nothing inherently wrong with the question itself.

Normally, it's just culture which dictates that it is blasphemous to question different aspects of Islam. It's wrong. If the enquiry is rational, then there is nothing sacrilegious about it. I polemically questioned alot of things until i realized the truth of this faith. Did i confirm this faith in my heart through blasphemous means?
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#93 Haydar Husayn

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Posted 02 January 2012 - 11:22 AM

I think you are getting too focused on what you think the reasons are as to why a woman needs to wear hijab. What you need to realise is that all this is irrelevant. The only thing that matters is that Allah ordered it through His Prophet (pbuh). Therefore even if it had absolutely no point, hijab would still need to be observed. That doesn't mean there isn't an actual benefit from it, because there certain is, but it's not the primary reason why someone should wear it.

It's hard to discern the submission aspect of Islam in your posts. Instead it seems to be that if you don't understand why a rule is in place, then you start doubting whether it should be in place at all. But this is completely illogical. If a child isn't capable of understanding one of the rules his parents set for him, it doesn't mean that it is a good idea for him to not obey it. Of course, the difference between Allah (swt) and us is infinitely greater than between a parent and a child. It is extremely presumptuous to assume that not only can we fully understand why Allah has made His laws, but also that if we judge the reasons we think the rules were made no longer apply, then we have the right to abrogate those laws.

I think some people would do well to remind themselves of the difference between themselves and Allah ÓÈÍÇäå æÊÚÇáì.
And they serve beside Allah what can neither harm them nor profit them, and they say: These are our intercessors with Allah. Say: Do you (presume to) inform Allah of what He knows not in the heavens and the earth? Glory be to Him, and supremely exalted is He above what they set up (with Him). [Qur'an 10:18, Shakir translation]

Now, surely, sincere obedience is due to Allah (alone) and (as for) those who take guardians besides Him, (saying), We do not serve them save that they may make us nearer to Allah, surely Allah will judge between them in that in which they differ; surely Allah does not guide him aright who is a liar, ungrateful. [Qur'an 39:3, Shakir translation]

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Posted 02 January 2012 - 11:28 AM

View PostZahraflower, on 30 December 2011 - 01:32 PM, said:

Asalam Alycome
BarakAllahu fekum for those who have tried to bring up the haq on Hijab. when looking at verses of the Holy Quran and the Ahadeth we need to have an understanding of the history. This was a time period were women wore a head covering it was a wide spread practice all over not only in the Arab world thus the verses came saying to cover the "chest & bosoms" because there was an understanding that the head is covered. I could go on more  on this issue but MasahAllah some of the brothers and sisters here spoke very well and I would just be repeating things so for the sake of not making this respond long i just wanted to leave with some advice from Allah(swt) in the Holy Quran:

“And it behoves not a believing man and a believing woman that they should have any choice in their matter when Allah and His Messenger have decided a matter; and whoever disobeys Allah and His Messenger, he [or she] surely strays off a manifest straying.” (33:36)

If you read that verse, you'll see it commands women to cover their bosoms properly and it uses the word 'khumur' as a reference. There's no directive command to cover the hair, it doesn't even infer it.
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#95 Haydar Husayn

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Posted 02 January 2012 - 11:45 AM

View Postاهل البيت, on 02 January 2012 - 11:28 AM, said:

If you read that verse, you'll see it commands women to cover their bosoms properly and it uses the word 'khumur' as a reference. There's no directive command to cover the hair, it doesn't even infer it.
That would be because everyone was already covering their hair. Anyway, the point of the verse is that when Allah (swt) has ordered something either in the Quran or through His Messenger, then you obey it, and you don't go against it.

Edited by Haydar Husayn, 02 January 2012 - 11:47 AM.

And they serve beside Allah what can neither harm them nor profit them, and they say: These are our intercessors with Allah. Say: Do you (presume to) inform Allah of what He knows not in the heavens and the earth? Glory be to Him, and supremely exalted is He above what they set up (with Him). [Qur'an 10:18, Shakir translation]

Now, surely, sincere obedience is due to Allah (alone) and (as for) those who take guardians besides Him, (saying), We do not serve them save that they may make us nearer to Allah, surely Allah will judge between them in that in which they differ; surely Allah does not guide him aright who is a liar, ungrateful. [Qur'an 39:3, Shakir translation]

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Posted 02 January 2012 - 02:28 PM

View PostHaydar Husayn, on 02 January 2012 - 11:45 AM, said:

That would be because everyone was already covering their hair. Anyway, the point of the verse is that when Allah (swt) has ordered something either in the Quran or through His Messenger, then you obey it, and you don't go against it.

I wasn't referring to the verse she posted. Anyway, Allah didn't order it in the Quran and neither did the Holy Prophet (sawa) enforce it or even speak about it.
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Posted 02 January 2012 - 02:47 PM

View Postاهل البيت, on 02 January 2012 - 02:28 PM, said:

I wasn't referring to the verse she posted. Anyway, Allah didn't order it in the Quran and neither did the Holy Prophet (sawa) enforce it or even speak about it.

Oh so you're a scholar who's read the whole Quran and can do tafseer of ayas...didn't know that. Did you watch the video I posted?
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#98 Haydar Husayn

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Posted 02 January 2012 - 03:11 PM

View Postاهل البيت, on 02 January 2012 - 02:28 PM, said:

I wasn't referring to the verse she posted. Anyway, Allah didn't order it in the Quran and neither did the Holy Prophet (sawa) enforce it or even speak about it.

What are you talking about? Hadiths have been shown to you proving the Prophet (pbuh) and the Imams (as) said it was obligatory. Are you in denial, or what?
And they serve beside Allah what can neither harm them nor profit them, and they say: These are our intercessors with Allah. Say: Do you (presume to) inform Allah of what He knows not in the heavens and the earth? Glory be to Him, and supremely exalted is He above what they set up (with Him). [Qur'an 10:18, Shakir translation]

Now, surely, sincere obedience is due to Allah (alone) and (as for) those who take guardians besides Him, (saying), We do not serve them save that they may make us nearer to Allah, surely Allah will judge between them in that in which they differ; surely Allah does not guide him aright who is a liar, ungrateful. [Qur'an 39:3, Shakir translation]

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Posted 02 January 2012 - 03:13 PM

View PostHawraa29, on 02 January 2012 - 02:47 PM, said:

Oh so you're a scholar who's read the whole Quran and can do tafseer of ayas...didn't know that. Did you watch the video I posted?

I've read the whole Quran and i've read the tafseer to the relevant hijab verse. Doesn't prove anything about the headscarf. Neither can you bring forth a narration from the Holy Prophet (sawa) where he commands it.

I wouldn't call myself a scholar, per say, but i'm not of the ignorant. I have a great deal of insight regarding alot of matters, I say this without ego.

I've seen the video you posted, saw it ages back and I disputed it on a social network site. It's vague and still doesn't prove anything. Khimar is mentioned as a reference to the command. It's not the command.
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Posted 02 January 2012 - 05:53 PM

^You're just living in denial mate and it's pretty sad to watch.

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