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Transitional Fossils


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#1 iSilurian

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Posted 11 December 2011 - 10:28 AM

Yea, i guess i will go ahead and ill make a blurb about transitional fossils.

Basically, in geology, what we have are a handful of principals and practices that allow us to date the ages of rocks.  Once we have the ages of rocks, we are able to determine the ages of bones within them.

What we find throughout time are a succession of fossils.  Now, this doesnt mean that in the early earth animals were less "complex" or anything like that.  It just means, for the most part, they were suitable for their particular environment at a particular time in history.

So, if you go back in time, life starts out, of course as small microbes and things like that, then progresses its way up to very odd organisms.  Once the major morphological features of the cambrian explosion are in existence, what we find are fossils that transition over time.

The order they transition is...well it is coherent and makes sense.  Essentially we start out with fish (Ordovician), then we get amphibians (Late Devonian), then reptiles (carboniferous), then you get mammals and birds springing out from reptiles in the early to mid Mesozoic (Jurassic and Triassic).

If you think about what an amphibian is, when i hear amphibian i think of frogs. Animals that breathe air but live in water, or certain types of fish that breathe both air and water.



Which, if you think about earth history, fish came first (water) (450 million years ago) , then amphibians (water+land) (400 million years ago), then reptiles (land) (300 million years ago).  It intuitively makes sense.  And there are a plethora of amphibian fossils that hold the traits of fish and amphibians.

Everyone take notice of the timescale here too, it took a good 150 million years before we get land animals from non land animals.  Its a significantly long time.

http://www.talkorigi...rt1a.html#amph1

What we find are these, animals that will have fins and scales like fish, but they will have neck bones and wrist bones like reptiles, enabling them to turn their necks to look around or twist their bodies to turn as if they were on land. What fish has neck bones which allow it to turn to look around?  What fish has wrist bones and muscles that allow it to lift its body with its fins?  They're transitionals. Adapted for their environments.

Posted Image

Ok, moving on.

So now we have these land critters who like the water.

Then you get these amphibian to reptile transitions.  Animals that have traits of reptiles and amphibians.  Which isnt unreasonable.  Think about the last time you have went to a zoo or aquarium.  Whats the difference between a salamander and a lizard?  A snake and an eel?

These guys arent too much different, morphologically.

The way, taxonomy in paleontology works is, essentially what you will have is an animal like a fish. And someone will say, ok a fish will be anything with fins, without certain neckbones that has X type of jaw and Y types of organs.  And a reptile will be any animal that has Z type of Jaw, W types of neck bones, V types of backbones and skull bones etc.

so, what we use are these "cladistics" to determine what we call an animal.  Its like when you program your tv.  If X then proceed to step 2, if Y then proceed to step 5.  Does it have fins? yes, ok proceed to step two. step two, ok does it have these types of wrist bones? No, ok therefore it is a fish. or therefore it is an amphibian etc.  I hope this makes sense, im not the best at explaining.

http://tolweb.org/Te...rtebrates/14952





So, as we go throughout time, we then find these part "mammal like - reptiles" (more reptile than mammal), then later on these reptile like mammals (more mammal than reptile).

http://www.talkorigi...nal/part1b.html

If you look at the link above, you just have this massive number of fossils that are somewhere in between.  And this is just a small collection of information.  The actual number of these fossils goes up into the hundreds.  There are so many, and a lot of them have so many mammal traits and reptile traits, that people arent even sure whether we should be calling them mammal or reptile, because theyre morphologically, both mammals and reptiles.  Theyre in between, theyre transitionals.

http://tolweb.org/Synapsida/14845
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Synapsid
http://tolweb.org/Diapsida/14866
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diapsid

And the same goes for the transition from reptiles to birds.  Remember earlier, i mentioned how reptiles split into mammals and birds.

And we start finding fossils like these.Posted Image

Is it a bird? Well it has sharp teeth and huge claws like a reptile.  It has the skull shape of a reptiles, thats strange.  And yet it has massive feathery wings.  It has hollowed out bones just like modern day birds.  So what is it?  Again. Reptiles (carboniferous, 300 million years ago), Birds (Late Jurassic, 150 million years ago), ok and whats in between? We get fossils like this guy.

http://tolweb.org/Ar...uromorpha/14916
http://www.talkorigi...nal/part1b.html
http://en.wikipedia....osaurs_to_birds

And, we go on and on.

In todays time we have modern forms of birds and mammals (us).

And you can see the same thing with human evolution as well.  A few million years ago, you have these small hominids with small brain capacities and, their neck bones dont allow them to look forward when standing upright, and their hipbones are made as if they should be walking on 4 legs, and they have these stumpy tails and massive canine teeth and...

It really becomes very detailed cladistics.  Thats what it all comes down to.

http://tolweb.org/Mammalia/15040

And if anyone is actually playing around with the taxonomy website above, take notice of how many organisms have gone extinct as well.

Anyway, this has been a rough overview of some transitional fossil info.  Someone made a comment about something in another thread, so i felt i may as well make a post.

If anyone has any questions, feel free to ask.

Posted Image

#2 iSilurian

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Posted 11 December 2011 - 11:13 AM

Also, i like how people vote my post 1 star, and yet they dont actually comment.  If you guys have a problem with the concept, then say it.  I'm right here. Ready to drop research for any and all nay sayers.  You dont need to hide from me.

And for anyone else, im a nice guy, i dont bite, and im not necessarily here to debate.  Just providing information.  So, dont be afraid to comment, even if u just want to say hello.

Edited by iSilurian, 11 December 2011 - 11:49 AM.


#3 Reshad

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Posted 11 December 2011 - 12:10 PM

i dont like evolution.... no one wants to be the offspring of a retarded monkey that somehow got mutated :dry:

#4 iSilurian

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Posted 11 December 2011 - 12:20 PM

View PostReshad, on 11 December 2011 - 12:10 PM, said:

i dont like evolution.... no one wants to be the offspring of a retarded monkey that somehow got mutated :dry:

Haha.  Well...If you look at DNA based organisms, even humans, yes i know its hard to believe humans have DNA :P, but even humans mutate.  Our DNA, sequences proteins and proteins build our morphology.  So if DNA mutates, then the proteins it sequences, change, then we subsequently, physically change.

And we have evolved from the most and to the most, intellectually superior animals on the planet, so i personally am proud of that lol.  Indeed, i am very proud to be a human, no matter what our origins.

And if anything, understanding our origins makes it an even greater history.  The past that we have overcome is absolutely amazing, and nobody should be ashamed of how far we've come, nor the amazing feats we have surpassed, because no other living thing we know of, has come as far as we have.  in certain aspects*

Edited by iSilurian, 11 December 2011 - 12:24 PM.


#5 Ibn-Ahmed Aliyy Herz

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Posted 29 October 2012 - 05:17 AM

These phylogentic trees have been built upon similarity and does not actually show progression from ape - > to human.

Similarity does not imply common ancestry,things are and necessarily must be either more similar or less similar,thus the same tree you made can still be made if we were indeed created.


Phylogentic trees regarding fossils however can show evolution from ape to human due to age of the fossils tied with polymorphism ,however in terms of human evolution the evidence is very weak as many evolutionists admit.


ERVs are shown to be functional and perhaps non-random,thus weakening using that in summation or phylogentic trees.


There isn't really much left after that.

#6 silvercrest

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Posted 05 November 2012 - 12:29 PM

i AM ALLERGIC TO BIOLOGY, NEVER READ IT.

#7 Sapphire

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Posted 05 November 2012 - 01:03 PM

I said this before and saying it again. I aint a chimp. :D

Posted Image


#8 Marbles

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Posted 05 November 2012 - 01:27 PM

View PostYour sister in faith, on 05 November 2012 - 01:03 PM, said:

I said this before and saying it again. I aint a chimp. :D

Evolution is a well documented fact. Whether or not it happened by way of Natural Selection is open to debate.

#9 moooose

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Posted 05 November 2012 - 01:38 PM

Silurian, I have a question, and I am not knowledgable in the field of science. These are just some thoughts:

From my understanding, we have come so far (so far that I cannot fathom) not only biologically but socially/spiritually. Sure some can point to similarities in appendages from multiple species and so on, but how does mainstream science or human evolutionists explain what I think is the utter speed of our evolution. Once we were on par with apes but a million years later, if it was not for wars and bad resource and intellectual management, we could have been far into space and out of sight from planet earth. Our level of being just seems to be for too complex and superior to other organisms on this planet (or maybe this whole universe but to the extant we still dont know) for human evolution to explain. We are too advanced. i dunno

How can this be explained?
Have you ever tried shawarma? I know what it is, and I want you to try it.

#10 moooose

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Posted 05 November 2012 - 02:35 PM

View PostIbn-Ahmed Aliyy Herz, on 29 October 2012 - 05:17 AM, said:

These phylogentic trees have been built upon similarity and does not actually show progression from ape - > to human.

Similarity does not imply common ancestry,things are and necessarily must be either more similar or less similar,thus the same tree you made can still be made if we were indeed created.


Phylogentic trees regarding fossils however can show evolution from ape to human due to age of the fossils tied with polymorphism ,however in terms of human evolution the evidence is very weak as many evolutionists admit.


ERVs are shown to be functional and perhaps non-random,thus weakening using that in summation or phylogentic trees.


There isn't really much left after that.



I like your avatar a lot.  Its quite bumptious in the positive sense, the person in it leaning to one side just as if he scattered any contradictory notion with ease, caring only to trouble himself with matters much more worthwhile.

B)
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#11 Sapphire

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Posted 06 November 2012 - 04:42 AM

View PostMarbles, on 05 November 2012 - 01:27 PM, said:

Evolution is a well documented fact. Whether or not it happened by way of Natural Selection is open to debate.

It might be a well documented fact but we can't seriously believe that our ancesters were apes and chimpanzees. The fact that the genetic coding of many species resemble each other can be a sort of a miracle of ALLAHÓÈÍÇäå æÊÚÇáì. Can you imagine the amount of time it would take for mapping of the genetics of each indiviual species. We might have a spoon full of DNA in us but its mapping takes years. The genetic mapping of us humans(Homo Sapiens) has not been completed yet. The process is still underway.

If you tell me that monkeys were humans before, that I will believe but not otherwise.

Edited by Your sister in faith, 06 November 2012 - 04:56 AM.

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