14 replies to this topic

[Saintly_Jinn23]

When I look some of the conflict between Muslims and Christians in the Middle East and abroad, I can't help but feel like Israel ultimately profits from this by hoping to implement a divide and conquer strategy. I'm sure for many this is obvious, but many of us who live in the West don't notice how much we are being played against eachother, through our (Zionist controlled) media, our respective governments who are on a leash held by Israel, and the infiltration of Zionist elements within the Christian churches. Honestly, when you get right down to it, the Zionist State doesn't care about Christians anymore than it does Muslims.


Is there a distinction made between the Palestinian Christians and the Palestinian Muslims when the Zionists go in stomp their heads in and take their homes and farms? Is there a distinction or favoritism given to the Lebanese Christans/Muslims? The Syrian Christians/Muslims? The Egyptian Christians/Muslims? No, not at all, all are targets on the Zionist Israelis hit list. Both have been murdered and stolen from by Israeli settlers and Zionist military dogs.The Zionists only present themselves to be the Christian's friends by appealing to the Hebrew Bible used by the Christians as their Old Testament to sow the seeds of Christian Zionism when in fact, Christianity and Zionism are more incompatible than Judaism and Zionism. They are distorting the Christian religious history, making Jews out to be perpetually innocent before God and above reproach, particularly during the time of Christ, exonerating the Jews from having taken any part in the persecution of Prophet Yahya/John the Baptist Jesus and their Jewish and Gentile disciples and followers, thus making the Roman victory over the Jewish rebellion not what it really was: a punishment from God for the plague of greed, repressive legalism, debauchery, idolatry, and hypocrisy that had plagued the holy land of Judea/Israel at the hands of the Jewish people and their false kings and corrupt priests. In both Islam and Christian eschatology, we are told that Christ will descend from the heavens to battle the Dajjal or Anti-Christ. Particular attention is paid in Christianity to Jesus being the promised heir to the throne of King David who will rebuild the Temple of God that was destroyed first by the Babylonians and again by the Romans. Christ will then herald the arrival of a "New Jerusalem." Various elements of this particular eschatology are echoed in the Islamic apocalyptic predictions, both Shia and Sunni, with Christ returning to do battle with a false bearer of his title "Messiah," and his leading of a glorious new God-fearing era alongside Imam Mahdi, may God hasten his return.









Tell me, does the current "State of Israel" at all meet the standards of Christian or Muslim morality? Does it resemble the Israel Christ would reign in? Does it at all reflect the standards that God expects from the Jews as laid out in the Quran, the Old Testament, or the New Testament? I don't understand how Christians and Muslims can fight and let themselves be pawns to Zionist aims, which plan to destroy or exile both of them, Hebrew and Arab alike, from that region of the world and establish a Nazi like Jewish State. Even within the borders of Israel, discrimination against Christian and Muslim Arabs continues, bigotry against  the minority of Hebrew blooded "Jewish Christians" becomes violent, Christian values and imagery are mocked and poked fun at on Israeli television and Zionist controlled American television far more than they are ever taken seriously and Christians, like Muslims, are constantly made to feel ashamed or embarrassed of their faith. The more Muslims and Christians feud, the more and more fodder the Zionist Jews, who have usurped Judaism, have to increase support for their illegitimate state. By presenting Muslims as the indefinite enemies of Christians and vice versa, they've managed to put a wedge between us as thick as their Separation Wall. Through the secret funding of Islamic extremist groups and political parties who attack innocent Christians, the funding of Christian fundamentalist groups and their evangelical ventures who corrupt the minds of the Christian people and instigate feuds with the Muslims,  and the monopolization and infiltrating of the media and just general economies of predominately Christian/Muslim nations, they control what we see and hear and fund our militaries and citizens to kill one another. This is because they know that dialogue, understanding, and peace between our two religions is dangerous to them. It's divide and conquer, as long as the Muslims hate the Christians, and the Christians hate the Muslims, they'll destroy each other and you can support either against the other and still win in the end because when these two great powers who are the among the world's largest religions, fight each other, even if one is victorious, the victor is so weakened that they are in no condition to resist even the weakest of foes.

Edited by Saintly_Jinn23, 09 November 2011 - 05:34 AM.

[3rd June]

There are Muslims that do not want to kill Christians. I believe they are a majority world wide. If Muslims can get a foothold in Egypt, maybe a change can actually happen but still I think Israel 'll stay as it is.

[Saintly_Jinn23]

3rd June, on 09 November 2011 - 05:40 AM, said:

There are Muslims that do not want to kill Christians. I believe they are a majority world wide. If Muslims can get a foothold in Egypt, maybe a change can actually happen but still I think Israel 'll stay as it is.

I'm not saying there aren't, but that doesn't mean there are never tensions between the two in the Middle East. Also, if you look at the conflict between the Western world and the Middle East, though ultimately Eastern Christians generally share an angry stance against the West, a lot of the conflict between the two goes back to religious differences. The West being predominately Christian and the Mid. East being predominately Muslim. I think the Zionist controlled media of the West does two things: endorses a smear campaign against Muslims so as to fill Christians, both the humble, or moderate for lack of a better term, and the neo-con fundamentals, with fear or misunderstanding of them and also endorses, more often than not, a mocking of Christianity or Jesus himself within a predominately Christian nation of all places, with constant coverage of Christian wackjobs like Westborough Baptist Church (who is only like 70 members, most from the same family) or these money stealing televangelists, as opposed to honest, pious, hardworking, Christians. This not only makes enemies of the Muslims to the Christian people, thus earning their support for measures against the Muslim people, particularly for the sake of Jews who are always portrayed as being some sort of inherently saintly people who are more learnt and constantly oppressed for no reason by Christians and Muslims, but it also damages the morale of actually good, believing, Christians by convincing them their religion is nothing but corrupt beyond repair or that even if they disagree with what this or that Christian fundie says, it doesn't ultimately matter what they think, nobody is going to listen to them or take them seriously. Also, by then, the image of Muslims in their head is of evil, backwards, barbarians who can't be expected to adapt to modern society and keep their religion anymore than they can.

By supporting the Christian fundie nutjobs, the Zionist media also presents a poor image to the Muslim people, especially when these people are outspoken in their stereotyping and even hatred for Muslims. And when these people are found out as frauds, their being a public image for Christianity makes Muslims generally expect the majority of Christian people to be hypocrites. The media attention to these people also helps bring weak minded people into the foray of these hypocritical sects and cults of Christians since this is all they see and hear of Christianity when they are searching for a personal relationship with Christ, ensuring more fundamental, evangelist, preachers to come to repeat this cycle of bigotry and ignorance or to shell out money to Israel so they can defend the holy land of Judea from the "Muslim desecrators." This makes the Muslims not only find the Christians to not practice what they preach, but scared to work alongside them to advance society. Israel gets a lot of money from Christian evangelical churches and part of the reason Christian fund Israel is to spite the Muslim people, whose own intolerance of Christians in their lands (take Saudi Arabia for instance, which is a Zionist funded regime, when they turn a blind eye to or encourage the persecution of Christians on their land) has done nothing but encourage Christians of the moderate and radical strains to stand with Zionist Jews against the Arabs, unknowingly damaging their Arab Christian counterparts who live among the Arab Muslims who are just as much targets of Zionist expansion.

Edited by Saintly_Jinn23, 09 November 2011 - 06:43 PM.

[Ahmed al-Yemeni]

The Palestinian Christians have always been huge members and leaders of the Palestinian struggle for freedom! Just read about heroes like George Habash founder of the PFLP, etc.

[Christianlady]

Saintly_Jinn23, on 09 November 2011 - 05:24 AM, said:

When I look some of the conflict between Muslims and Christians in the Middle East and abroad, I can't help but feel like Israel ultimately profits from this by hoping to implement a divide and conquer strategy.

Hello Saintly Jinn,

I am curious. Are you by any means related to Ugly Jinn?

Anyways, as a Christian, I believe that Christians who support killing Muslims, regardless of whether in defense of the USA and the West or not, are not obeying Jesus' teachings. Many Christians however disagree with me and think that if Americans don't  kill before being killed, that we will be killed and our freedoms will go out the window. American Christians need to ask ourselves which is more important, being a free American or a persecuted Christian.

I don't know about that. From my experience, there are Muslim people who have no desire to force Christians to live under them, but rather are fine with living with people of other beliefs in peace. That is one reason why many Muslims migrate to the USA and to other Western nations.

Quote

I'm sure for many this is obvious, but many of us who live in the West don't notice how much we are being played against eachother, through our (Zionist controlled) media, our respective governments who are on a leash held by Israel, and the infiltration of Zionist elements within the Christian churches. Honestly, when you get right down to it, the Zionist State doesn't care about Christians anymore than it does Muslims.

I think some Israelis do care about Christians because many Christians visit Israel as pilgrims. For example, even though now I cannot afford to, when if God wills God allows my husband and me to be able to go, we would love to visit Israel to walk where Jesus walked, to see Bethlehem and Jerusalem... I am crying just thinking about it! That woudl be a dream come true, though it is not necessary... it is not a hajj or required to walk where Jesus walked; it would be a lovely gift from God however!

I have no desire to conquer or kill anyone. My desire in going to Israel is just to visit in order to see where Jesus walked. I don't intend on moving there, just visiting. Visiting includes spending money on lodging, food, and touristy sights. I think Israelis would only have a problem with Christians who try to convert them and/or want to stay and take over.

Quote

Is there a distinction made between the Palestinian Christians and the Palestinian Muslims when the Zionists go in stomp their heads in and take their homes and farms?

I do not know any Palestinian Christians personally, but i would hope that Palestinian Christians are not trying to kill or hurt anyone, whether Muslim or Jewish or Atheist or ...

From what I have heard, Palestinian Muslims have been sending rockets into Israel, killing civilians and tourists, as well as Palestinian kids throwing rocks. Is this not true? If Palestinian Christian kids and men are doing this, they need to learn Jesus' teachings and stop being violent. if they have something against Israel, then need to protest in the right way, not in hurting people. '

Quote

Is there a distinction or favoritism given to the Lebanese Christans/Muslims? The Syrian Christians/Muslims? The Egyptian Christians/Muslims? No, not at all, all are targets on the Zionist Israelis hit list. Both have been murdered and stolen from by Israeli settlers and Zionist military dogs

First of all, dogs are precious creatures God created that are to be cared for by people, same as cats, horses, ... Secondly, Christians have been killed by people for a long time, Jesus prophesied that and it happened and is still happening in some places. What is important for Christians to do is to follow Jesus' teachings. Jesus' teachings that the Kingdom of Heaven is not something his followers attain now anyways... but after the resurrection. What is important is for Christians not to kill in return. Jesus said his followers would be killed, but he did not command his followers to kill.

Matthew 24 (NIV)

"¹ Jesus left the temple and was walking away when his disciples came up to him to call his attention to its buildings. ² “Do you see all these things?” he asked. “Truly I tell you, not one stone here will be left on another; every one will be thrown down.”
³ As Jesus was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to him privately. “Tell us,” they said, “when will this happen, and what will be the sign of your coming and of the end of the age?”
⁴ Jesus answered: “Watch out that no one deceives you. ⁵ For many will come in my name, claiming, ‘I am the Messiah,’ and will deceive many. ⁶ You will hear of wars and rumors of wars, but see to it that you are not alarmed. Such things must happen, but the end is still to come. ⁷ Nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. There will be famines and earthquakes in various places. ⁸ All these are the beginning of birth pains.
   ⁹ “Then you will be handed over to be persecuted and put to death, and you will be hated by all nations because of me. ¹⁰ At that time many will turn away from the faith and will betray and hate each other, ¹¹ and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. ¹² Because of the increase of wickedness, the love of most will grow cold, ¹³ but the one who stands firm to the end will be saved. ¹⁴ And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come."

Quote

The Zionists only present themselves to be the Christian's friends by appealing to the Hebrew Bible used by the Christians as their Old Testament to sow the seeds of Christian Zionism when in fact, Christianity and Zionism are more incompatible than Judaism and Zionism. They are distorting the Christian religious history, making Jews out to be perpetually innocent before God and above reproach, particularly during the time of Christ, exonerating the Jews from having taken any part in the persecution of Prophet Yahya/John the Baptist Jesus and their Jewish and Gentile disciples and followers, thus making the Roman victory over the Jewish rebellion not what it really was: a punishment from God for the plague of greed, repressive legalism, debauchery, idolatry, and hypocrisy that had plagued the holy land of Judea/Israel at the hands of the Jewish people and their false kings and corrupt priests.

Unlike Islamic beliefs, Christians believe that the Scriptures, the Tanakh, are true and are not corrupt. Christians believe that Jesus is the fulfillment of the Law and the Propehts and the Psalms. So, Jewish people, whether Zionists or not, do not make Jewish people to be "innocent" but rather Christians who study the Old Testament understand that God does indeed have a specific plan for Abraham's son Isaac's son Jacob (Israel)'s descendants. Most Christians do not wish to argue against God.

Quote

In both Islam and Christian eschatology, we are told that Christ will descend from the heavens to battle the Dajjal or Anti-Christ. Particular attention is paid in Christianity to Jesus being the promised heir to the throne of King David who will rebuild the Temple of God that was destroyed first by the Babylonians and again by the Romans.

Could you please give a reference in the Bible concerning Jesus rebuilding the temple? According to most Christians I know, Christians believe the temple will have been rebuilt already before Jesus comes back, as well as the state of Israel being back. Israel is now back, but the temple is not yet built... there is a masjid there, not the temple.

Quote

Christ will then herald the arrival of a "New Jerusalem." Various elements of this particular eschatology are echoed in the Islamic apocalyptic predictions, both Shia and Sunni, with Christ returning to do battle with a false bearer of his title "Messiah," and his leading of a glorious new God-fearing era alongside Imam Mahdi, may God hasten his return.

Is an Imam Mahdi in Christian beleifs?

Quote

Tell me, does the current "State of Israel" at all meet the standards of Christian or Muslim morality? Does it resemble the Israel Christ would reign in? Does it at all reflect the standards that God expects from the Jews as laid out in the Quran, the Old Testament, or the New Testament? I don't understand how Christians and Muslims can fight and let themselves be pawns to Zionist aims, which plan to destroy or exile both of them, Hebrew and Arab alike, from that region of the world and establish a Nazi like Jewish State. Even within the borders of Israel, discrimination against Christian and Muslim Arabs continues, bigotry against  the minority of Hebrew blooded "Jewish Christians" becomes violent, Christian values and imagery are mocked and poked fun at on Israeli television and Zionist controlled American television far more than they are ever taken seriously and Christians, like Muslims, are constantly made to feel ashamed or embarrassed of their faith.

Again, Jesus prophesied that his followers would be persecuted. This is not a surprise to Christians who study Jesus' teachings.
It does not really matter. What matters is the reaction of the Christian to the persecution. Jesus said the following:

Matthew 5 (NIV)

"¹ Now when Jesus saw the crowds, he went up on a mountainside and sat down. His disciples came to him, ² and he began to teach them.
The Beatitudes

He said:
   ³ “Blessed are the poor in spirit,
   for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
⁴ Blessed are those who mourn,
   for they will be comforted.
⁵ Blessed are the meek,
   for they will inherit the earth.
⁶ Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness,
   for they will be filled.
⁷ Blessed are the merciful,
   for they will be shown mercy.
⁸ Blessed are the pure in heart,
   for they will see God.
⁹ Blessed are the peacemakers,
   for they will be called children of God.
¹⁰ Blessed are those who are persecuted because of righteousness,
   for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
   ¹¹ “Blessed are you when people insult you, persecute you and falsely say all kinds of evil against you because of me. ¹² Rejoice and be glad, because great is your reward in heaven, for in the same way they persecuted the prophets who were before you.

Matthew 5 (NIV)

"⁴³ “You have heard that it was said, ‘Love your neighbor^[i] and hate your enemy.’ ⁴⁴ But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, ⁴⁵ that you may be children of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. ⁴⁶ If you love those who love you, what reward will you get? Are not even the tax collectors doing that? ⁴⁷ And if you greet only your own people, what are you doing more than others? Do not even pagans do that? ⁴⁸ Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect."

Quote

The more Muslims and Christians feud, the more and more fodder the Zionist Jews, who have usurped Judaism, have to increase support for their illegitimate state. By presenting Muslims as the indefinite enemies of Christians and vice versa, they've managed to put a wedge between us as thick as their Separation Wall. Through the secret funding of Islamic extremist groups and political parties who attack innocent Christians, the funding of Christian fundamentalist groups and their evangelical ventures who corrupt the minds of the Christian people and instigate feuds with the Muslims,  and the monopolization and infiltrating of the media and just general economies of predominately Christian/Muslim nations, they control what we see and hear and fund our militaries and citizens to kill one another. This is because they know that dialogue, understanding, and peace between our two religions is dangerous to them. It's divide and conquer, as long as the Muslims hate the Christians, and the Christians hate the Muslims, they'll destroy each other and you can support either against the other and still win in the end because when these two great powers who are the among the world's largest religions, fight each other, even if one is victorious, the victor is so weakened that they are in no condition to resist even the weakest of foes.

First of all, I agree that Muslims and Christians should not be fighting. The main reason I believe that is because of Jesus' teachings. Secondly, Christians who hate Muslims or Jewish people or anybody are not obeying Jesus' commands to love, so Christians who do so are disobedient. Jesus did not promise his followers an earthly kingdom. He said our treasure is in heaven, so hopefully more and more Christians will obey Jesus' teachings, and not hate others and not kill others.

Peace and God bless you

Matthew 6 (NIV)

"¹ “Be careful not to practice your righteousness in front of others to be seen by them. If you do, you will have no reward from your Father in heaven.
   ² “So when you give to the needy, do not announce it with trumpets, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and on the streets, to be honored by others. Truly I tell you, they have received their reward in full. ³ But when you give to the needy, do not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing, ⁴ so that your giving may be in secret. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you.


⁵ “And when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by others. Truly I tell you, they have received their reward in full. ⁶ But when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your Father, who is unseen. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you. ⁷ And when you pray, do not keep on babbling like pagans, for they think they will be heard because of their many words. ⁸ Do not be like them, for your Father knows what you need before you ask him.
   ⁹ “This, then, is how you should pray:
   “‘Our Father in heaven,
hallowed be your name,
¹⁰ your kingdom come,
your will be done,
   on earth as it is in heaven.
¹¹ Give us today our daily bread.
¹² And forgive us our debts,
   as we also have forgiven our debtors.
¹³ And lead us not into temptation,^[a]
   but deliver us from the evil one.^[b]’
   ¹⁴ For if you forgive other people when they sin against you, your heavenly Father will also forgive you. ¹⁵ But if you do not forgive others their sins, your Father will not forgive your sins.


¹⁶ “When you fast, do not look somber as the hypocrites do, for they disfigure their faces to show others they are fasting. Truly I tell you, they have received their reward in full. ¹⁷ But when you fast, put oil on your head and wash your face, ¹⁸ so that it will not be obvious to others that you are fasting, but only to your Father, who is unseen; and your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you.
¹⁹ “Do not store up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moths and vermin destroy, and where thieves break in and steal. ²⁰ But store up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where moths and vermin do not destroy, and where thieves do not break in and steal. ²¹ For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also."


Peace and God bless you

Edited by Christianlady, 13 January 2012 - 02:04 PM.

[Yoel]

Saintly_Jinn23, on 09 November 2011 - 05:24 AM, said:

In fact, Christianity and Zionism are more incompatible than Judaism and Zionism.

Actually, it's the exact opposite.

Traditional Judaism is diametrically opposed to political Zionism, which is the most destructive anti-Jewish heresy ever invented. It's also important to note that many people who considered themself "Zionists" 60-100 years ago, would be today considered anti-Zionists. For example, Martin Buber, a major Jewish philosopher and theologian, was a "cultural Zionist". It means that he supported peaceful coexistence of Jews and Palestinians in one binational federation, but he believed that Jerusalem should be the main cultural center for the Jews, without creating a Jewish state. When you read that someone before the Six-Day War was a "Zionist", it's not always true, because the meaning of the term itself changed over time.

Militant political Zionism actually started within Protestant Christian movements who want to hasten the Second Coming of Christ. They believe in a peculiar ideology that the Second Coming will happen when all Jews will gather in Israel. At the same time, they also believe that eveone one else will be killed in the eschatological apocalyptic process, including the Jews and heretodox Christians. Their top clergy doesn't care neither about Jews nor Palestinians, but simple Christian Zionists buy this crap and really think that their ideology is good for the Jews and for the world.

Political Zionism was actually invented by these Protestant sects, primarily in Great Britain and the USA, long before it got picked up by Jewish nationalists. Oddly enough, a few of these Christians believed that the British are descendants of the ancient Hebrew tribes are have therefore the right to colonize Palestine. For ezample, Ezra Stiles (1727–1795), an American Christian, wrote Zionist things before Theodor Herzl (1860-1902), the founder of Jewish Zionism. Interestingly enough, Herzl originally wanted the Jews to convert to Christianity, but abandoned this idea because traditional Jews were shocked by it. He was friends with British Christian Zionists (it was called Dispensationalism back then) and picked up their ideas.

It happens to be that the most powerful right-wing political elite in the US, so-called WASP (White Anglo-Saxon Protestant), supports this ideology to various degrees. Many Zionists, even very "religious" (well, I call it heretical) ones, really love this sort of Christianity because for these Christians support of Zionism became an ultimate dogma. The Jewish Zionists don't believe in the Second Coming of Christ, so the dark eschatology of these Christians doesn't bother them. The same type of Christians also usually believe in American and Anglo-Saxon superiority and are totally against Islam. They are also totally against any socialist ideas and passionately support neoliberal economy. So, Christian Zionism comes with an entire package of reactionary ideologies: colonialism, imperialism, white supremacism and deeply unethical eschatological dogmas.

This extremely dangerous alliance is often overlooked by critics of Zionism. Many people try to figure out who are those Jews who allegedly control the media. The fact is that right-wing varieties of North American Protestanism provides a fertile ground for Zionism even without any Jewish influence. And there are far more Christian Zionists (about 50 millions) than all Jews in the world together. These facts are usually ignored or deliberately silenced by Jewish Zionists, because to admit that their ideology was invented first by some Anglo-Saxon Chrsitians would be a big embarrassment for them.

I would recommend you to read Prof. Yakov Rabkin's book A Threat from Within: A Century of Jewish Opposition to Zionism. It's one of the only books written by a religious anti-Zionist Jews who is also a professional historian well familar with the history of Christian Zionism.

Edited by Yoel, 01 March 2013 - 01:19 PM.

[xstatik2]

Christianlady, on 13 January 2012 - 02:03 PM, said:

I think some Israelis do care about Christians because many Christians visit Israel as pilgrims. For example, even though now I cannot afford to, when if God wills God allows my husband and me to be able to go, we would love to visit Israel to walk where Jesus walked, to see Bethlehem and Jerusalem... I am crying just thinking about it! That woudl be a dream come true, though it is not necessary... it is not a hajj or required to walk where Jesus walked; it would be a lovely gift from God however!

Similarly, the Israelis are also aware about the Religious attachements which they Muslims have for Israel -- http://www.frommers....0227020883.html

The age old hatred between the Muslims and the Jews will eventually simmer down low as we are all educated individuals and with education, comes rationality.
The Jews who have always been accussed of being shrewd businessmen and money minded, will open up to the idea of increased relations and exchequer coming in from potential millions (includes Christians / Catholics and Muslims).

Christianlady, on 13 January 2012 - 02:03 PM, said:

Could you please give a reference in the Bible concerning Jesus rebuilding the temple? According to most Christians I know, Christians believe the temple will have been rebuilt already before Jesus comes back, as well as the state of Israel being back. Israel is now back, but the temple is not yet built... there is a masjid there, not the temple.

It is prophecized in the Jewish Scriptures about the Rebuilding of the Temple, there is no reference that Jesus Christ (P.B.U.H.) will rebuild the temple, but this event as a sign has been prophecized in the Bible too (which has resulted in a lot of paranoid reactions all over the globe).

Christianlady, on 13 January 2012 - 02:03 PM, said:

Is an Imam Mahdi in Christian beleifs?


Peace and God bless you

He comes from Muhammad's (P.B.U.H.) progency. The ones who established Islam as God's chosen Monotheistic religion (we believe that it is the PERFECT monotheistic one), Let me explain in detail. The Bible speaks of Abraham, Noah, Moses and other Prophets sent down by God. Muhammad is from Abraham's lineage and Imam Mahdi (A.T.F.S) is from Muhammad's ................. so he is a descendant of Abraham (P.B.U.H.)

It all depends on you, if you want to believe in someone who's lineage has very well been traced to Abraham (the founder of Monotheistic Religion) then you will. If not, then the followers of Imam Mahdi (A.T.F.S) believe that upon their appearance / arrival, Jesus (P.B.U.H) will authenticate Imam Mahdi's position on this Earth as one who will Establish Justice alongwith other duties which he is destined to perform.

[Robin Hood]

It's not dangerous at all, because it will never happen
And why is the wors Israel put between quotation marks, Israel is a fact.

[Yoel]

xstatik2, on 01 March 2013 - 05:46 PM, said:

The Jews who have always been accussed of being shrewd businessmen and money minded, will open up to the idea of increased relations and exchequer coming in from potential millions (includes Christians / Catholics and Muslims).

The Jews were not always and not everywhere accused in being money-minded, but exactly in the medieval Christian world, where Christian governments forbade the Jews to do anything except money-lending and very few kinds of trade that no one else would agree to do. The feudal system and the Church leaders made the life conditions of the Jewish communities unbearable and drove many Jews into ruthless business because they had to find a way to survive under these conditions. There were no such accusations against the Jews neither in Muslim countries, not in China or India.

For example, Jews in Al-Andalus were usually very respected before the Spanish Christians took over, started burning people alive for their beliefs and kicked out both Jews and Muslims.

[The Matrix]

Very dangerous. Christian countries are Israel's biggest allies. If the Christians  unite with the Muslims that will be the end of Israel as we know it.

[lalamoosa]

Yoel, on 04 March 2013 - 10:09 AM, said:

The Jews were not always and not everywhere accused in being money-minded, but exactly in the medieval Christian world, where Christian governments forbade the Jews to do anything except money-lending and very few kinds of trade that no one else would agree to do. The feudal system and the Church leaders made the life conditions of the Jewish communities unbearable and drove many Jews into ruthless business because they had to find a way to survive under these conditions. There were no such accusations against the Jews neither in Muslim countries, not in China or India.

For example, Jews in Al-Andalus were usually very respected before the Spanish Christians took over, started burning people alive for their beliefs and kicked out both Jews and Muslims.

why did the jews then backstab the muslims with the help of the west?

that itself shows their true character.

[bosnian-77]

The jews are much closer to our faith,if we look at tewhid,simple theological stuff

ok well maybe not to you  shias ,as some of you pray to saints and so on

[JimJam]

bosnian-77, on 05 March 2013 - 07:28 AM, said:

The jews are much closer to our faith,if we look at tewhid,simple theological stuff

ok well maybe not to you  shias ,as some of you pray to saints and so on

Shias dont pray to saints, they pray to Allah. Why do you spread lies?

The Jews are diverse, they have mystical branches, the Hasidic Jews and the Kabalists. They even have their version of Salafis, the Haradim Jews. And Jewish monothiesm with it's absolute rejection of any physical form to God is much closer to the Shia view than the Salafist, god-has-hands ultraliteralist salafist view. However in the beliefs regarding religious authority are almost the same as Sunnis since they think the Jewish 'Ummah' as a whole has religious authority after prophets. Jewish are a mish-mash of Shia and Sunni concepts, but they came first.

Edited by JimJam, 05 March 2013 - 09:18 AM.

[Yoel]

lalamoosa, on 04 March 2013 - 10:14 PM, said:

why did the jews then backstab the muslims with the help of the west?

that itself shows their true character.

The Jews didn't backstab the Muslims. It's the Western imperialism who did and still does, with the help of so-called "Jewish" Zionists.

The Zionists are not traditional Jews. They are heretics and their "religion" was invented by some odd Anglo-Saxon Christian sects about 200 years ago.

Edited by Yoel, 06 March 2013 - 11:53 AM.

[Yoel]

JimJam, on 05 March 2013 - 09:15 AM, said:

Shias dont pray to saints, they pray to Allah. Why do you spread lies?

The Jews are diverse, they have mystical branches, the Hasidic Jews and the Kabalists. They even have their version of Salafis, the Haradim Jews.

There is no such thing as unified Haredi ideology or movement. Mainstream media tends to put all Jews who wear black cloths and practice stricter religious norms into the same category as "Haredim", but in reality these people are very diverse and don't agree on many issues, e.g. support of Israel vs. anti-Zionism. None of these groups are literalists or fundamentalists in Salafi sense. In the contrary, they are often mystically-inclined and follow folk customs and beliefs of different historical Jewish communities from Eastern Europe.

One rarely hears "black-hat" Jews calling themselves "Haredi". They call themselves "Satmar", "Belz", "Chabad", "Neturei Karta", "Breslov", sometimes combining two or more of such group affiliations. Even the pronunciation of the term varies, depending on Yiddish dialect. It's usually "Khareidi" or "Kharaidi".

Another group, right-wing branch of Modern Orthodox, does seem to be similar to Salafi in many aspects. They discourage and even ban mystical ideas, tend to be very literalist and try to "cleanse" the original Judaism of historical regional influences. The difference between them and some varieties of "Lithuanian" black-hatters is somewhat blurry.

But in general, you are right: Judaism is very diverse and you can find in it parallels to all major Islamic groups.

Edited by Yoel, 06 March 2013 - 12:58 PM.