10 replies to this topic

[halwahalwa_1.1]

SORRY FOR THE TITLE OF THIS POST, PLEASE READ (Is it possibe to change the title please ?)
"Adamic Language : A Challenge To Semitic Religions"


Adamic language = the language understood by Adam
A challenge = lingustically
To semitic religions = proto-Judaism, proto-Christianism, proto-Islam (because Islam is generally based on semitic narratives and shares a common cultural background)

1)According to semitic religions, a general idea about  Adam is that he was created by God from dust somewhere in the heaven.

2)There is a whole theatrical drama in which God speaks, angels speak, Iblis speaks, Adam also speaks.

Commentary

If we assume that what Qur'an says about the theatrical history of Adam is true and these events took place somewhere and years ago, then it is obvious that the first question to ask is what was this shared language (formal system of signs governed by grammatical rules of combination to communicate meaning) by the restricted speech community that included God, angels, Iblis and Adam.

A language basically is a sequence of sounds. A sound is basically a mechanical wave that needs a medium to travel, for instance on earth the medium for sound is air. Sounds in speech are produced by passing a stream of air from the lungs through one or more resonators belonging to the phonetic apparatus. The principal resonators are the pharyngeal cavity, the oral cavity, the labial cavity and the nasal cavity.

Assuming these specific features that enable a person to communicate with his fellow creature, we are facing a real problem on the existence of such entities like angels, Iblis and God. Even if we consider that angels and Iblis have characteristics similar to human, the problem of adamic language persists as language is a cultural and social production. Furthermore, language is a mental faculty that allows humans to undertake linguistic behaviour such to learn languages, produce and understand utterances. No doubt that there are neural mechanisms in the human brain that control the comprehension, production, and acquisition of language. What is the probability of existence of such extra-terrestrial entities that have a culture, a social organization and a neural mechanism ?

Else, in linguistic typology we can classify languages according to their structural features. Sentences arrange their elements in a certain order depending on language : Subject–verb–object, Subject–object–verb, Verb–subject–object, Verb–object–subject, Object–subject–verb, Object–verb–subject. How then God chooses which of these structural features is the best for the adamic language or if this choice is arbitrary, if so then, God is not perfect in his essence.

Languages are in perpetual evolution from primitive to advance speech, also some disappear others appear through a constant movement, for example nobody speaks akkadian, phoenician or other ancient languages nowadays. If the adamic language is the language choosen by God to speak to Adam, how is it possible that this God-choosen language no longer exist, after all, it was a godly language.

It seems that from the point of view of linguistic evolution and other scientific fields, adamic language is a challenge to semitic religions with serious consequences over claiming the existence of Adam as the first human.




[To moderators : I am sorry for the multi id halwahalwa, halwahalwa_1.1, I tried to change something in my previous account but unfortunately I missed something. So I create another account.]

Edited by halwahalwa_1.1, 22 October 2011 - 05:28 PM.

[La fata illa Ali]

"A language basically is a sequence of sounds."


tell that to deaf ppl who use sign language. Also, ever heard of 'inspiration' what makes u think all this 'talk' was 'spoken' , it could have been inspired  rather then spoken by God (aj)

ur whole argument is rather hilarious

[halwahalwa_1.1]

As7aabul Yameen, on 22 October 2011 - 05:16 PM, said:

"A language basically is a sequence of sounds."


tell that to deaf ppl who use sign language. Also, ever heard of 'inspiration' what makes u think all this 'talk' was 'spoken' , it could have been inspired  rather then spoken by God (aj)

ur whole argument is rather hilarious

Please read again Qur'an before making a commentary without any interesting argument.

[La fata illa Ali]

halwahalwa_1.1, on 22 October 2011 - 05:20 PM, said:

Please read again Qur'an before making a commentary without any interesting argument.

Oh, what an enlightening resposne. thank you for that!

Edited by As7aabul Yameen, 22 October 2011 - 05:22 PM.

[Hakimabidallah]

Well to answer your question may not be what your looking for? But heres my answer.

1) Quran is proof for all existence as it is true sahib unchanged. So that it all you need.

2) You can't apply a human scientic method to to explain things that have no studies. You would have to do research on each subject then provide a thesis. Which...you can't. Lol if you can. I wouldn't want to on any non Muslim  jinn or devils.

3) God is true perfection. Our brains can never wrap around the concept that He is bound by nothing. He creates bound. So to explain from a bound to Allah which has no bound. Leaves you no room to debate. Allah knows best.

Sahih* and my grammar is off on purpose lol

Something not on paper changes everything...

[ImamAliLover]

halwahalwa_1.1, on 22 October 2011 - 05:20 PM, said:

Please read again Qur'an before making a commentary without any interesting argument.

1) In the Quran, Adam wasn't the only human.  2) The Quran doesn't describe the method of speech.  When Allah(swt) 'speaks' to the heavens and the earth in Surah al-Fussilat, is it the same 'speech' as talking to a human?  It doesn't describe a specific language or even a specific method of communication.  What it clear is that there was some kind of communication involved.  The details are not described.  i think you're making a lot of assumptions and then trying to link your assumptions with frankly irreverent scientific fields.  Adam could have been communicating with his thoughts or intentions or making signs for all we know.  Or he could have used actual speech.  Allah(swt) gives examples of this in the Quran, such as when Nabi Yahya(as) "spoke" by using signs.  And Allah(swt) knows best

[halwahalwa_1.1]

Hakimabidallah, on 23 October 2011 - 09:41 PM, said:

Well to answer your question may not be what your looking for? But heres my answer.

1) Quran is proof for all existence as it is true sahib unchanged. So that it all you need.

2) You can't apply a human scientic method to to explain things that have no studies. You would have to do research on each subject then provide a thesis. Which...you can't. Lol if you can. I wouldn't want to on any non Muslim  jinn or devils.

3) God is true perfection. Our brains can never wrap around the concept that He is bound by nothing. He creates bound. So to explain from a bound to Allah which has no bound. Leaves you no room to debate. Allah knows best.

Sahih* and my grammar is off on purpose lol

Something not on paper changes everything...

1.That's the opinion of muslim only and it's quite obvious. Every follower of each religion in this world can claim that their book is the only thruth.
2.On the contrary, how can you imagine that God uses some odd tricks to deliver his message. If he is the master of this world, he can't go against his own established laws. What kind of God he would be to compel his creatures to follow his laws and then himself going against his own laws ? Unusual, I say !  
3.If he is true perfection then what about 2) ?

Edited by halwahalwa_1.1, 24 October 2011 - 04:16 PM.

[Hakimabidallah]

He isn't set by laws. Why shouldnt I be able to breathe underwater when the fish can. We aren't the same. Your giving him bounds again. He is perfection. If you believe the Quran is not the true book than bring something better. Your measuring god from your human intellect. You feel me? You can't judge a gods action because your He is the reason you have them. Do you know what happens when you die? Do you have the earth rotation within your control? Do you know what will happen to me today? You can't compare yourself to Allah. And that's what inadvertently happens when you use thesis to describe Allah.

Or to judge his actions. Then you come to how come he has no beginning? See what I mean? Human conscious is stuck in one mode and can only imagine so much outside of it.

You judge things based on how you see them. Your a human. There are things you will never know or comprehend.

[halwahalwa_1.1]

ImamAliLover, on 23 October 2011 - 09:52 PM, said:

1) In the Quran, Adam wasn't the only human.  2) The Quran doesn't describe the method of speech.  When Allah(swt) 'speaks' to the heavens and the earth in Surah al-Fussilat, is it the same 'speech' as talking to a human?  It doesn't describe a specific language or even a specific method of communication.  What it clear is that there was some kind of communication involved.  The details are not described.  i think you're making a lot of assumptions and then trying to link your assumptions with frankly irreverent scientific fields.  Adam could have been communicating with his thoughts or intentions or making signs for all we know.  Or he could have used actual speech.  Allah(swt) gives examples of this in the Quran, such as when Nabi Yahya(as) "spoke" by using signs.  And Allah(swt) knows best

1.I of course am not talking about those who came after Adam. First, solve the problem of Adam before going further.
2.There are so many subjects that Qur'an doesn't describe. It's not a pretext to not ponder upon this subject particularly.
3.First it's claimed that Qur'an didn't go againt Science, when something inapprehensible comes, first argument is that it's beyond understanding and God knows better. This methodology is scientifically very poor.

I will try to expand this particular subject later.

Keep going to post commentaries. I will surely read them.

Hakimabidallah, on 24 October 2011 - 04:23 PM, said:

He isn't set by laws.

And his creatures ?

Hakimabidallah, on 24 October 2011 - 04:23 PM, said:

You can't judge a gods action because your He is the reason you have them. Do you know what happens when you die? Do you have the earth rotation within your control? Do you know what will happen to me today? You can't compare yourself to Allah. And that's what inadvertently happens when you use thesis to describe Allah. Or to judge his actions. Then you come to how come he has no beginning? See what I mean? Human conscious is stuck in one mode and can only imagine so much outside of it.

You judge things based on how you see them. Your a human. There are things you will never know or comprehend.

I am not judging God, nor his actions. I am just trying to find paradigms that can explain the whole matter. After all, Qur'an tells many times to reflect, so I don't see what is wrong with reflection ?

[Hakimabidallah]

His creatures have set laws to a way we won't be able to grasp. Sort of like occultation.

Yes reflecting, arent you comparing tho?

[ImamAliLover]

halwahalwa_1.1, on 24 October 2011 - 04:45 PM, said:

This methodology is scientifically very poor.

i think your methodology is scientifically rather poor.  You make an unproven condition and then judge base off of that, as if it was a fact.  Especially when a lot of the points in your original post are mostly speculation.  Read this post carefully and go back to your first post and hopefully you'll see what i'm saying.

Edited by ImamAliLover, 24 October 2011 - 06:31 PM.