44 replies to this topic

[Reshad]

sameerjafri, on 05 October 2011 - 05:45 PM, said:

These are things i do or agree with doing:

• Salat (Prayers)
  
• Saum (Fasting)
  
• Hajj (Pilgrimage)
  
• Zakat (Poor Rate)
  
• Khums (Wealth Tax)
  
• Jihad (Striving)
  
• Amr-Bil-Ma'roof (Enjoin what is good)
  
• Nahi-Anil-Munkar (Forbid what is wrong)
  
• Tawalla (To love and respect the Ahl-ul-Bait and their friends)
  
• Tabarra (To disassociate from the enemies of the Ahl-ul-Bait)

Amr-Bil-Ma'roof & Nahi-Anil-Munkar is where things gets confusing.

These are things i am:

I watch tv shows, movies, documentries, sports , news etc. ALL western. I love listening to music of all kinds and I playing my guitar and piano.

I am also a support of science and things such as theory of evolution or any other scientific theory of the day.

I believe in equal rights of women and men but i do understand that women are the care takers and men are the providers.

I belive that islamic law/shaira law on running governments or states should be ended. I believe in a separation of church and state or in our case mosque and the state. I believe in democracy and trying out new political and economic system which truly create wealth for all.

I believe that countries SHOULD have a secular law which provides equal rights to all and not one group. Therefore i think in a Muslim country GAY people should be allowed to "marry" each other, abortion should be allowed etc but i know these people who commit such acts are not Muslims and this marriage or act cant be recognized by Islam.

Reading so far down the list do you guys see where i am going with this. I am the most Liberal muslim you can find. LOL. But let me tell you, I never miss reading the namaz, roza etc and i always to treat people with respect and love no matter what.  I would even like to perform blade matam in muhhram.

So i am a mixed bag. Am i a muslim? ( in your opinion) and which of the following beliefs stated above do you guys disagree with?

thank you

You are Muslim if you believe Allah is one , and in his meesengers. Whether or not you are a good Muslim is not up to any person to judge, however if you feel you are not a good Muslim you should study Islam more and try to change your behavior.

[0feedmeplz]

you are muslim, follow what you understand to the best of your ability.

[anonymous.youth]

Bismillah Arrahmaan Arraheem,

Salaamu Alaykum,

I think you are confused. I think you know that islam is correct in terms of aqeeda but you have misconceptions. Read shaheed mutahharis books, he answers all ur questions and shows how islam is correct not secularism. http://islambooks.we...-mutahhari.html

[JawzofDETH]

@iSilurian Having a degree doesn't make your position stronger, evidence does.
So you've read some standardized text-books, replicated a few lab experiments and wrote a thesis on it, good for you.
I admitted your points quite humbly before but arrogance is a real turn-off.

You were talking about ERV phylogenetic trees while I was talking about the human link, doesn't have anything to with anything, of course we know that humans and animals have close links, for the past 40+ years we've been using animal parts to save human lives, that doesn't mean that we are the same species and doesn't say anything for evolution from chimps either. Ironically chimpanzee (baboon) hearts in xenotransplantation are not the most suitable for humans (for a variety of reasons), rather pig-hearts are better, which puts an interesting question as to how close "our closest animal ancestor" actually is. The only way to prove any link is structurally (fossils) and that is why I brought up "Piltdown Man."

As to black holes, perhaps YOU should try googling it, you'll find that almost all the representations are artistic not real imaging. The few actual pictures just depict an obscure unknown region of a galaxy, like I said no one actually knows what they are, that is why it is called the black-hole theory , but we until we send space-probes to see what's actually going on and we have the technology to do so it is still what 'we think' they are doing. We may just discover something completely different than what we can see through our telescopes.

Tom: looks to me through my binoculars like a red-balloon hanging from that tree down yonder, can you see?
Richard: Yup, that's a balloon alright, if it's not it definitely looks unique to the landscape from here.
Harry: It's an apple, I just came from there, theres a field of them beyond that hill.

--

Some of the greatest minds we have had were mavericks to conventional understanding.
There was a time long ago when REAL scientists walk the planet, they didn't have degrees, no institutions and academia stood over them and said "why do that?" or "you challenging something established and we know to be true." And then perhaps even there may have been latter cases where some did meet opposition, they didn't care and brought forward great discoveries. Those are the people far more worthy of any acknowledgement than people who study from the set-works of others.

Being a person who loves to learn I will still read your sections myself, but I won't discuss it as I don't want to have the PhD trumps layman held to my head every time. This not only stifles you as a person but as a scientist and you will never be able to admit that you are wrong, because you possess a piece of paper from the church of academia says so.

Peace.

Edited by JawzofDETH, 18 December 2011 - 01:16 PM.

[iSilurian]

JawzofDETH, on 18 December 2011 - 01:04 PM, said:

You were talking about ERV phylogenetic trees while I was talking about the human link.

ERV phylogenetic trees prove common descent, and our link with other primates. They are shared between all primates, and they are passed down by our ancestors, thereby relating us.

JawzofDETH, on 18 December 2011 - 01:04 PM, said:

As to black holes, perhaps YOU should try googling it, you'll find that almost all the representations are artistic not real imaging. The few actual pictures just depict an obscure unknown region of a galaxy, like I said no one actually knows what they are, that is why it is called the black-hole theory ,

Jawz, black holes are real, they blatantly bend light, if you honestly dont know that the bending of light has been witnessed, then i dont know what to tell you.

http://space.about.c...oles-Pictures-/

JawzofDETH, on 18 December 2011 - 01:04 PM, said:

Being a person who loves to learn I will still read your sections myself, but I won't discuss it as I don't want to have the PhD trumps layman held to my head every time.
Peace.

And, ill be nice, all im asking is, that you provide actual evidence against my claims rather than just putting your opinion out there. For example, with the ERV phylogenetic trees, or even the black holes, you didnt really say what the issue was. We can see that the blackholes bend light around them.  So how can you deny them?  Something is sucking in everything, something has a great deal of mass.  That something is what we call a black hole, and you cant really deny its existence.

With ERVs, they are passed on through lineages of organisms.  We can build their phylogenetic trees and we can have them match up with any and every other tree.  So it proves our relatedness through common descent.  What is your real objection? What is your real argument against it?  You didnt even acknowledge what they represent.

[JawzofDETH]

iSilurian, on 18 December 2011 - 01:38 PM, said:

ERV phylogenetic trees prove common descent, and our link with other primates. They are shared between all primates, and they are passed down by our ancestors, thereby relating us.

I am familiar with phylogenetic trees, I helped my sister who has her masters in animal diseases colour code hers for a few papers. Read my point following and you can see that I am not opposing the fact that humans and animals have biological links, I contest the presupposed genetic ones.

iSilurian, on 18 December 2011 - 01:38 PM, said:

Jawz, black holes are real, they blatantly bend light, if you honestly dont know that the bending of light has been witnessed, then i dont know what to tell you.

http://space.about.c...oles-Pictures-/

Must you throw everything out of proportion? Just darn condescending.
No one is denying that light can be bent. Fibre optics and refraction,
we can do this on earth, that has nothing to do with what I was saying.

iSilurian, on 18 December 2011 - 01:38 PM, said:

And, ill be nice, all im asking is, that you provide actual evidence against my claims rather than just putting your opinion out there. For example, with the ERV phylogenetic trees, or even the black holes, you didnt really say what the issue was. We can see that the blackholes bend light around them.  So how can you deny them?  Something is sucking in everything, something has a great deal of mass.  That something is what we call a black hole, and you cant really deny its existence.

With ERVs, they are passed on through lineages of organisms.  We can build their phylogenetic trees and we can have them match up with any and every other tree.  So it proves our relatedness through common descent.  What is your real objection? What is your real argument against it?  You didnt even acknowledge what they represent.

You are not bothering to look at my points, rather you dismiss them as opinion. I have nothing further to say on the matter to you.

Peace

[iSilurian]

JawzofDETH, on 18 December 2011 - 07:34 PM, said:

I am familiar with phylogenetic trees, I helped my sister who has her masters in animal diseases colour code hers for a few papers. Read my point following and you can see that I am not opposing the fact that humans and animals have biological links, I contest the presupposed genetic ones.

You are not bothering to look at my points, rather you dismiss them as opinion. I have nothing further to say on the matter to you.

Peace

ok, we can let it go.  But you said "Read my point following and you can see that I am not opposing the fact that humans and animals have biological links"

ok, so, your following point is...? And you said "I contest the presupposed genetic ones".  So i dont know if that is your following point.

But alright.  Moving on, its ok.

[Norma955]

Yes you are a Muslim because I have am the same
I watch tv shows, movies, documentries, sports , news etc. ALL western. I love listening to music of all kinds and I'm a music lover  

I believe in equal rights of women and men but i do understand that women are the care takers and men are the providers somewhat.

I belive that islamic law/shaira law on running governments or states should be ended. I believe in a separation of church and state or in our case mosque and the state. I believe in democracy and trying out new political and economic system which truly create wealth for all.  Trust me for people giving saudia arabia as an example come one ppeople!!! Saudis are the most racist hateful people out there they hate everyone and they killl everyone !

I believe that countries SHOULD have a secular law which provides equal rights to all and not one group. I believe in Gay rights because gay people don't choose to be gay they just become gay because of genetic scientific reasons, so why should they suffer because of it. Also nowhere in the quran does it mention gays and that they should be hated and killed. Gays already have it hard enough, people have to spew down on the hate.  

I dont wear the hijab but I have strong views and I hate it when people judge other people because that isnt our job we are judged by god not by fellow humans.
I am an activist of human rights and womens right
Also someone gave an example of Iranis state and mosque law, and trust me that isnt a good example because there is allot of problems there and plus iranians the minute they leave iran they are basically the complete opposiite I have known many Iranians living in Canadian and they wear really reveling cloths and drink and dont care about religion and I dont mean to critisize but I just mean that they turn astray because back in their country they were forced to follow the rules or big trouble and thats not the way to do it. If you force someone to do something they arent doing it because they want to they are doing it because they have to
Also whether your a muslim or not is a question that you have to answer yourself not others. You are a western muslim is the answer I will give you lol
All the luck and dont listen to the people that are bringing you down. Everyone has there own opinion on what a muslim should be like and there will never be muslims that are all 100% muslims or 100% alike.

-Norma

[JawzofDETH]

iSilurian, on 18 December 2011 - 07:45 PM, said:

But alright.  Moving on, its ok.

Nvrmnd, I'll read your topics for now;
it's okay, we can perhaps discuss it again at a later stage.

Peace

Edited by JawzofDETH, 19 December 2011 - 06:22 PM.

[Deen]

you are a muslim no worries

[Hano]

sameerjafri, on 05 October 2011 - 05:45 PM, said:

These are things i do or agree with doing:

• Salat (Prayers)
  
• Saum (Fasting)
  
• Hajj (Pilgrimage)
  
• Zakat (Poor Rate)
  
• Khums (Wealth Tax)
  
• Jihad (Striving)
  
• Amr-Bil-Ma'roof (Enjoin what is good)
  
• Nahi-Anil-Munkar (Forbid what is wrong)
  
• Tawalla (To love and respect the Ahl-ul-Bait and their friends)
  
• Tabarra (To disassociate from the enemies of the Ahl-ul-Bait)

Amr-Bil-Ma'roof & Nahi-Anil-Munkar is where things gets confusing.

These are things i am:

I watch tv shows, movies, documentries, sports , news etc. ALL western. I love listening to music of all kinds and I playing my guitar and piano.

I am also a support of science and things such as theory of evolution or any other scientific theory of the day.

I believe in equal rights of women and men but i do understand that women are the care takers and men are the providers.

I belive that islamic law/shaira law on running governments or states should be ended. I believe in a separation of church and state or in our case mosque and the state. I believe in democracy and trying out new political and economic system which truly create wealth for all.

I believe that countries SHOULD have a secular law which provides equal rights to all and not one group. Therefore i think in a Muslim country GAY people should be allowed to "marry" each other, abortion should be allowed etc but i know these people who commit such acts are not Muslims and this marriage or act cant be recognized by Islam.

Reading so far down the list do you guys see where i am going with this. I am the most Liberal muslim you can find. LOL. But let me tell you, I never miss reading the namaz, roza etc and i always to treat people with respect and love no matter what.  I would even like to perform blade matam in muhhram.

So i am a mixed bag. Am i a muslim? ( in your opinion) and which of the following beliefs stated above do you guys disagree with?

thank you

Allah determines what you are and what you are not. I agree with you on many aspects. In the Quran (21:30) "

Have those who disbelieved not considered that the heavens and the earth were a joined entity, and We separated them and made from water every living thing? Then will they not believe?" is God not talking about the Big bang and evolution in this case? Believing in such theories to the best of your knowledge does not make someone muslim or non-muslim.

Women and Men both do have equal rights in Islam, it was Islam who granted them such rights in the first place!

The Islamic mode of govt. is one method besides communism or capitalism or fascism etc etc. So far, we have seen that capitalism has failed, so has communism, so has fascism. Pure Islamic law has never been tried! (except during time of the prophet ) so i can't judge whether or not it will succeed. However, so far, Iran has come quite close to it, and it seems to be successful there. In Saudi arab, Pakistan etc etc, it isnt Islamic law that governs, it is a [Edited Out]ized version of it which is mixed with capitalism and fascism...so one cannot judge it so. Not all secular govt.s are successful, same as not all mixes of religion and govt. will be unsuccessful.

ONLY in a secular country, do  i believe Gay's should be allowed to enact civil unions and gain govt. benefits through it. In a theocracy like Iran, i don't blame them for not having it. An Islamic country is not supposed to be for everyone to live in and follow their desires. Submission to God's will does not always mean submission to your own desires.  AllahuAlam

[Ali Musaaa :)]

In the Name of Allah the most Gracious, the most Merciful

The dividing line between belief and unbelief, Muslim and non-Muslim is the shahadah. Once you say "I bear witness that there is no god except Allah and I bear witness that Muhammad is His Servent and Messenger" and you firmly believe it then you are a Muslim. And only Allah knows what is really inside our hearts and he will judge us according to our faith and deeds. So in short, if you say the Shahadah then you are a Muslim... I see under your religion u have Muslim so... What does that tell you ?

Hmm I do have a few issues with the other things you have mentioned but I am not going to say you are wrong or bad for saying or thinking in these things we are all unique and Allah blessed us with mind and intellect to make our own decisions.

But you said you would even take part in blade matam.... I do apologize if I am wrong as I have not done much research on this topic.. But if you are referring to the act of self flagellation with a blade of some sort than this is something you really need to think about!

Do you really think Muhammad (saws) would want his followers to do such a thing to themselves.... Do you think Allah (swt) would want his creation to do such a thing to their bodies? This act of self flagellation goes against majority of the Shia scholars. They (majority) say you can not do those things and take part in something like that... I'm not saying I am 100% right snout this but I heard from a scholar in one of his lectures that it is prohibited by majority of the scholars.

But in the end Allah gave you free will so you can think, believe and do whatever you want, but keep in mind, you will be questioned about it all on the Day of Judgement.

About your hobby with music. When converting to Islam we have to give up something's that we may enjoy or like... But this sacrifice will be in the end rewarded InshAllah. In relation to music I refer you to a lecture given by Seyed Ammar Nakshwani: http://www.sayedamma...mmarnakshc.html

It's lecture number 30. 

I had a problem when I converted to Islam about music as well. I really loved music and didn't want to give it up. But I decided that the benefits do not out way the negatives and I love Allah more than music so I gave up music so I attempt to achieve a higher level of Taqwa. Because after converting I totally avoided music, but only a month ago I started listening again and it totally destroyed my awareness of God and it I felt so isolated and removed from God because of it. So stopped and now I don't listen to music at all besides Nasheeds

But anyways listen to his lecture and decide afterwards whether you think music is allowed in Islam.

Also gay marriages are not allowed or recognized in Islam. Read story of Prophet Lut in Quran. You can't take your opinion like the other brother said, over Gods... To my knowledge it's not a sin to be homosexual but it is a sin to act upon and commit those acts. But they are human beings and have rights just like everyone else so we shouldn't treat them any different. In the end Allah will judge them, and remember He is the Best of Judges.

To me you are a Muslim to everyone else you should be consider one as well  

Wassalaam

[Subliminal]

Technically speaking yes.

[mo7arbelmahdi]

Astghfiro Allah al 3atheem

You ake me sick gay relationships are haram and should not be spoken of in the first place. It is against the law. Men do have equal rights to women in most countries. i do agree the law of some arabian countries limits women freedom and make men more important than women. Abortion should be only allowed in two cases: 1) if the baby is a threat to the women health and possibly life it should be removed.
    2) if the women was raped and had a baby the women can remove the baby the first 40 days of pregnancy.

[Ahmed Ismael]

Åöäøóäöì ãöäó ÇáúãõÓúáöãöíäó

.



Better to read scripture in Arabic

[AliSaleh]

i also do many of these things and iam a muslim.

[The Holy Quran]

Should we then treat the Muslims like the Criminals? No. Do not go Against to the will of Allah.


One Day, those of Disbelief will wish they had Believed.
Some of them will ask the True Believers that
'Were we not with You?"
But they will reply "Yes, you were with us...
but you then doubted (Allah's promise)
and let your false desires deceive you, until Allah's Commands came.

And Shaytaan deciebed you in regards to Allah ÓÈÍÇäå æÊÚÇáì.


"Muslims' means those who submit to the will of Allah (and do not disobey him or perform Haram Acts).


Let them Eat and Enjoy Life, and Believe in false hopes, but they will soon come to know!
Be Muslims!
Wassalam
Believe in Allah's Oneness, his Justice, His Prophets, His Imams, And The Day of Judgement.
Then you are free to wish what you want!

[y3qub]

sameerjafri, on 05 October 2011 - 05:45 PM, said:

These are things i do or agree with doing:

• Salat (Prayers)
  
• Saum (Fasting)
  
• Hajj (Pilgrimage)
  
• Zakat (Poor Rate)
  
• Khums (Wealth Tax)
  
• Jihad (Striving)
  
• Amr-Bil-Ma'roof (Enjoin what is good)
  
• Nahi-Anil-Munkar (Forbid what is wrong)
  
• Tawalla (To love and respect the Ahl-ul-Bait and their friends)
  
• Tabarra (To disassociate from the enemies of the Ahl-ul-Bait)

Amr-Bil-Ma'roof & Nahi-Anil-Munkar is where things gets confusing.

These are things i am:

I watch tv shows, movies, documentries, sports , news etc. ALL western. I love listening to music of all kinds and I playing my guitar and piano.

I am also a support of science and things such as theory of evolution or any other scientific theory of the day.

I believe in equal rights of women and men but i do understand that women are the care takers and men are the providers.

I belive that islamic law/shaira law on running governments or states should be ended. I believe in a separation of church and state or in our case mosque and the state. I believe in democracy and trying out new political and economic system which truly create wealth for all.

I believe that countries SHOULD have a secular law which provides equal rights to all and not one group. Therefore i think in a Muslim country GAY people should be allowed to "marry" each other, abortion should be allowed etc but i know these people who commit such acts are not Muslims and this marriage or act cant be recognized by Islam.

Reading so far down the list do you guys see where i am going with this. I am the most Liberal muslim you can find. LOL. But let me tell you, I never miss reading the namaz, roza etc and i always to treat people with respect and love no matter what.  I would even like to perform blade matam in muhhram.

So i am a mixed bag. Am i a muslim? ( in your opinion) and which of the following beliefs stated above do you guys disagree with?

thank you

Why look to others to define you? Look to the Quran and God therein, and you'll find the answer.

[alan25usa]

Norma955, on 18 December 2011 - 10:43 PM, said:

Yes you are a Muslim because I have am the same
I watch tv shows, movies, documentries, sports , news etc. ALL western. I love listening to music of all kinds and I'm a music lover  

I believe in equal rights of women and men but i do understand that women are the care takers and men are the providers somewhat.

I belive that islamic law/shaira law on running governments or states should be ended. I believe in a separation of church and state or in our case mosque and the state. I believe in democracy and trying out new political and economic system which truly create wealth for all.  Trust me for people giving saudia arabia as an example come one ppeople!!! Saudis are the most racist hateful people out there they hate everyone and they killl everyone !

I believe that countries SHOULD have a secular law which provides equal rights to all and not one group. I believe in Gay rights because gay people don't choose to be gay they just become gay because of genetic scientific reasons, so why should they suffer because of it. Also nowhere in the quran does it mention gays and that they should be hated and killed. Gays already have it hard enough, people have to spew down on the hate.  

I dont wear the hijab but I have strong views and I hate it when people judge other people because that isnt our job we are judged by god not by fellow humans.
I am an activist of human rights and womens right
Also someone gave an example of Iranis state and mosque law, and trust me that isnt a good example because there is allot of problems there and plus iranians the minute they leave iran they are basically the complete opposiite I have known many Iranians living in Canadian and they wear really reveling cloths and drink and dont care about religion and I dont mean to critisize but I just mean that they turn astray because back in their country they were forced to follow the rules or big trouble and thats not the way to do it. If you force someone to do something they arent doing it because they want to they are doing it because they have to
Also whether your a muslim or not is a question that you have to answer yourself not others. You are a western muslim is the answer I will give you lol
All the luck and dont listen to the people that are bringing you down. Everyone has there own opinion on what a muslim should be like and there will never be muslims that are all 100% muslims or 100% alike.

-Norma

Well, If you are the criteria, then thank goodness for the one who started this thread! whew.

[ShiaPoet]

Salam

'Muslim' means 'one who submits to Allah'.

If you submit yourself fully to Allah, then you are considered a Muslim.