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[Sister Fadia_56]

101 Contradictions in the Bible:
101 Clear Contradictions in the Bible
Shabir Ally
1. Who incited David to count the fighting men of Israel?

• God did (2 Samuel 24: 1)
  
• Satan did (I Chronicles 2 1:1)

2. In that count how many fighting men were found in Israel?

• Eight hundred thousand (2 Samuel 24:9)
  
• One million, one hundred thousand (I Chronicles 21:5)

3. How many fighting men were found in Judah?

• Five hundred thousand (2 Samuel 24:9)
  
• Four hundred and seventy thousand (I Chronicles 21:5)

4. God sent his prophet to threaten David with how many years of famine?

• Seven (2 Samuel 24:13)
  
• Three (I Chronicles 21:12)

5. How old was Ahaziah when he began to rule over Jerusalem?

• Twenty-two (2 Kings 8:26)
  
• Forty-two (2 Chronicles 22:2)

6. How old was Jehoiachin when he became king of Jerusalem?

• Eighteen (2 Kings 24:8)
  
• Eight (2 Chronicles 36:9)

7. How long did he rule over Jerusalem?

• Three months (2 Kings 24:8)
  
• Three months and ten days (2 Chronicles 36:9)

8. The chief of the mighty men of David lifted up his spear and killed how many men at one time?

• Eight hundred (2 Samuel 23:8)
  
• Three hundred (I Chronicles 11: 11)

9. When did David bring the Ark of the Covenant to Jerusalem? Before defeating the Philistines or after?

• After (2 Samuel 5 and 6)
  
• Before (I Chronicles 13 and 14)

10. How many pairs of clean animals did God tell Noah to take into the Ark?

• Two (Genesis 6:19, 20)
  
• Seven (Genesis 7:2). But despite this last instruction only two pairs went into the ark (Genesis 7:8-9)

11. When David defeated the King of Zobah, how many horsemen did he capture?

• One thousand and seven hundred (2 Samuel 8:4)
  
• Seven thousand (I Chronicles 18:4)

12. How many stalls for horses did Solomon have?

• Forty thousand (I Kings 4:26)
  
• Four thousand (2 chronicles 9:25)

13. In what year of King Asa's reign did Baasha, King of Israel die?

• Twenty-sixth year  (I Kings 15:33 - 16:8)
  
• Still alive in the thirty-sixth year (2 Chronicles 16:1)

14. How many overseers did Solomon appoint for the work of building the temple?

• Three thousand six hundred (2 Chronicles 2:2)
  
• Three thousand three hundred (I Kings 5:16)

15. Solomon built a facility containing how many baths?

• Two thousand (1 Kings 7:26)
  
• Over three thousand (2 Chronicles 4:5)

16. Of the Israelites who were freed from the Babylonian captivity, how many were the children of Pahrath-Moab?

• Two thousand eight hundred and twelve (Ezra 2:6)
  
• Two thousand eight hundred and eighteen (Nehemiah 7:11)

17. How many were the children of Zattu?

• Nine hundred and forty-five (Ezra 2:8)
  
• Eight hundred and forty-five (Nehemiah 7:13)

18. How many were the children of Azgad?

• One thousand two hundred and twenty-two (Ezra 2:12)
  
• Two thousand three hundred and twenty-two (Nehemiah 7:17)

19. How many were the children of Adin?

• Four hundred and fifty-four (Ezra 2:15)
  
• Six hundred and fifty-five (Nehemiah 7:20)

20. How many were the children of Hashum?

• Two hundred and twenty-three (Ezra 2:19)
  
• Three hundred and twenty-eight (Nehemiah 7:22)

21. How many were the children of Bethel and Ai?

• Two hundred and twenty-three (Ezra 2:28)
  
• One hundred and twenty-three (Nehemiah 7:32)

22. Ezra 2:64 and Nehemiah 7:66 agree that the total number of the whole assembly was 42,360. Yet the numbers do not add up to anything close. The totals obtained from each book is as follows:

• 29,818 (Ezra)
  
• 31,089 (Nehemiah)

23. How many singers accompanied the assembly?

• Two hundred (Ezra 2:65)
  
• Two hundred and forty-five (Nehemiah 7:67)

24. What was the name of King Abijahs mother?

• Michaiah, daughter of Uriel of Gibeah (2 Chronicles 13:2)
  
• Maachah, daughter of Absalom (2 Chronicles 11:20) But Absalom had only one daughter whose name was Tamar (2 Samuel 14:27)

25. Did Joshua and the Israelites capture Jerusalem?

• Yes (Joshua 10:23, 40)
  
• No (Joshua 15:63)

26. Who was the father of Joseph, husband of Mary?

• Jacob (Matthew 1:16)
  
• Hell (Luke 3:23)

27. Jesus descended from which son of David?

• Solomon (Matthew 1:6)
  
• Nathan(Luke3:31)

28. Who was the father of Shealtiel?

• Jechoniah (Matthew 1:12)
  
• Neri (Luke 3:27)

29. Which son of Zerubbabel was an ancestor of Jesus Christ?

• Abiud (Matthew 1: 13)
  
• Rhesa (Luke 3:27) But the seven sons of Zerubbabel are as follows: i.Meshullam, ii. Hananiah, iii. Hashubah, iv. Ohel, v.Berechiah, vi. Hasadiah, viii. Jushabhesed (I Chronicles 3:19, 20). The names Abiud and Rhesa do not fit in anyway.

30. Who was the father of Uzziah?

• Joram (Matthew 1:8)
  
• Amaziah (2 Chronicles 26:1)

31. Who was the father of Jechoniah?

• Josiah (Matthew 1:11)
  
• Jeholakim (I Chronicles 3:16)

32. How many generations were there from the Babylonian exile until Christ?

• Matthew says fourteen (Matthew 1:17)
  
• But a careful count of the generations reveals only thirteen (see Matthew 1: 12-16)

33. Who was the father of Shelah?

• Cainan (Luke 3:35-36)
  
• Arphaxad (Genesis II: 12)

34. Was John the Baptist Elijah who was to come?

• Yes (Matthew II: 14, 17:10-13)
  
• No (John 1:19-21)

35. Would Jesus inherit Davids throne?

• Yes. So said the angel (Luke 1:32)
  
• No, since he is a descendant of Jehoiakim (see Matthew 1: I 1, I Chronicles 3:16). And Jehoiakim was cursed by God so that none of his descendants can sit upon Davids throne (Jeremiah 36:30)

36. Jesus rode into Jerusalem on how many animals?

• One - a colt (Mark 11:7; cf Luke 19:3 5). And they brought the colt to Jesus and threw their garments on it; and he sat upon it.
  
• Two - a colt and an ass (Matthew 21:7). They brought the ass and the colt and put their garments on them and he sat thereon.

37. How did Simon Peter find out that Jesus was the Christ?

• By a revelation from heaven (Matthew 16:17)
  
• His brother Andrew told him (John 1:41)

38. Where did Jesus first meet Simon Peter and Andrew?

• By the sea of Galilee (Matthew 4:18-22)
  
• On the banks of river Jordan (John 1:42). After that, Jesus decided to go to Galilee (John 1:43)

39. When Jesus met Jairus was Jairus daughter already dead?

• Yes. Matthew 9:18 quotes him as saying, My daughter has just died.
  
• No. Mark 5:23 quotes him as saying, My little daughter is at the point of death.

40. Did Jesus allow his disciples to keep a staff on their journey?

• Yes (Mark 6:8)
  
• No (Matthew 10:9; Luke 9:3)

41. Did Herod think that Jesus was John the Baptist?

• Yes (Matthew 14:2; Mark 6:16)
  
• No (Luke 9:9)

42. Did John the Baptist recognize Jesus before his baptism?

• Yes (Matthew 3:13-14)
  
• No (John 1:32,33)

43. Did John the Baptist recognize Jesus after his baptism?

• Yes (John 1:32, 33)
  
• No (Matthew 11:2)

44. According to the Gospel of John, what did Jesus say about bearing his own witness?

• If I bear witness to myself, my testimony is not true (John 5:3 1)
  
• Even if I do bear witness to myself, my testimony is true (John 8:14)

45. When Jesus entered Jerusalem did he cleanse the temple that same day?

• Yes (Matthew 21:12)
  
• No. He went into the temple and looked around, but since it was very late he did nothing. Instead, he went to Bethany to spend the night and returned the next morning to cleanse the temple (Mark I 1:1- 17)

46. The Gospels say that Jesus cursed a fig tree. Did the tree wither at once?

• Yes. (Matthew 21:19)
  
• No. It withered overnight (Mark II: 20)

47. Did Judas kiss Jesus?

• Yes (Matthew 26:48-50)
  
• No. Judas could not get close enough to Jesus to kiss him (John 18:3-12)

48. What did Jesus say about Peters denial?

• The [Edited Out] will not crow till you have denied me three times (John 13:38)
  
• Before the [Edited Out] crows twice you will deny me three times (Mark 14:30) . When the [Edited Out] crowed once, the three denials were not yet complete (see Mark 14:72). Therefore prediction (a) failed.

49. Did Jesus bear his own cross?

• Yes (John 19:17)
  
• No (Matthew 27:31-32)

50. Did Jesus die before the curtain of the temple was torn?

• Yes (Matthew 27:50-51; Mark lS:37-38)
  
• No. After the curtain was torn, then Jesus crying with a loud voice, said, Father, into thy hands I commit my spirit! And having said this he breathed his last (Luke 23:45-46)

51. Did Jesus say anything secretly?

• No. I have said nothing secretly (John 18:20)
  
• Yes. He did not speak to them without a parable, but privately to his own disciples he explained everything (Mark 4:34). The disciples asked him Why do you speak to them in parables? He said, To you it has been given to know the secrets of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it has not been given (Matthew 13: 1 0-11)

52. Where was Jesus at the sixth hour on the day of the crucifixion?

• On the cross (Mark 15:23)
  
• In Pilates court (John 19:14)

53. The gospels say that two thieves were crucified along with Jesus. Did both thieves mock Jesus?

• Yes (Mark 15:32)
  
• No. One of them mocked Jesus, the other defended Jesus (Luke 23:43)

54. Did Jesus ascend to Paradise the same day of the crucifixion?

• Yes. He said to the thief who defended him, Today you will be with me in Paradise (Luke 23:43)
  
• No. He said to Mary Magdelene two days later, I have not yet ascended to the Father (John 20:17)

55. When Paul was on the road to Damascus he saw a light and heard a voice. Did those who were with him hear the voice?

• Yes (Acts9:7)
  
• No (Acts22:9)

56. When Paul saw the light he fell to the ground. Did his traveling companions also fall to the ground?

• Yes (Acts 26:14)
  
• No (Acts 9:7)

57. Did the voice spell out on the spot what Pauls duties were to be?

• Yes (Acts 26:16-18)
  
• No. The voice commanded Paul to go into the city of Damascus and there he will be told what he must do. (Acts9:7;22: 10)

58. When the Israelites dwelt in [Edited Out]tin they committed adultery with the daughters of Moab. God struck them with a plague. How many people died in that plague?

• Twenty-four thousand (Numbers 25:1 and 9)
  
• Twenty-three thousand (I Corinthians 10:8)

59. How many members of the house of Jacob came to Egypt?

• Seventy souls (Genesis 4 & 27)
  
• Seventy-five souls (Acts 7:14)

60. What did Judas do with the blood money he received for betraying Jesus?

• He bought a field (Acts 1: 18)
  
• He threw all of it into the temple and went away. The priests could not put the blood money into the temple treasury, so they used it to buy a field to bury strangers (Matthew 27:5)

61. How did Judas die?

• After he threw the money into the temple he went away and hanged himself (Matthew 27:5)
  
• After he bought the field with the price of his evil deed he fell headlong and burst open in the middle and all his bowels gushed out (Acts 1:18)

62. Why is the field called Field of Blood?

• Because the priests bought it with the blood money (Matthew 27:8)
  
• Because of the bloody death of Judas therein (Acts 1:19)

63. Who is a ransom for whom?

• The Son of Man came...to give his life as a ransom for many (Mark 10:45). Christ Jesus who gave himself as a ransom for all... (I Timothy 2:5-6)
  
• The wicked is a ransom for the righteous, and the faithless for the upright (Proverbs 21:18)

64. Is the law of Moses useful?

• Yes. All scripture is... profitable... (2 Timothy 3:16)
  
• No. . . . A former commandment is set aside because of its weakness and uselessness... (Hebrews 7:18)

65. What was the exact wording on the cross?

• This is Jesus the King of the Jews (Matthew 27:37)
  
• The King of the Jews (Mark 15:26)
  
• This is the King of the Jews (Luke 23:38)
  
• Jesus of Nazareth, the King of the Jews (John 19:19)

66. Did Herod want to kill John the Baptist?

• Yes (Matthew 14:5)
  
• No. It was Herodias, the wife of Herod who wanted to kill him. But Herod knew that he was a righteous man and kept him safe (Mark 6:20)

67. Who was the tenth disciple of Jesus in the list of twelve?

• Thaddaeus (Matthew 10: 1-4; Mark 3:13 -19)
  
• Judas son of James is the corresponding name in Lukes gospel (Luke 6:12-16)

68. Jesus saw a man sitat the tax collectors office and called him to be his disciple. What was his name?

• Matthew (Matthew 9:9)
  
• Levi (Mark 2:14; Luke 5:27)

69. Was Jesus crucified on the daytime before the Passover meal or the daytime after?

• After (Mark 14:12-17)
  
• Before. Before the feast of the Passover (John 1) Judas went out at night (John 13:30). The other disciples thought he was going out to buy supplies to prepare for the Passover meal (John 13:29). When Jesus was arrested, the Jews did not enter Pilates judgment hail because they wanted to stay clean to eat the Passover (John 18:28). When the judgment was pronounced against Jesus, it was about the sixth hour on the day of Preparation for the Passover (John 19:14)

70. Did Jesus pray to The Father to prevent the crucifixion?

• Yes. (Matthew 26:39; Mark 14:36; Luke 22:42)
  
• No. (John 12:27)

71. In the gospels which say that Jesus prayed to avoid the cross, how many times did he move away from his disciples to pray?

• Three (Matthew 26:36-46 and Mark 14:32-42)
  
• One. No opening is left for another two times. (Luke 22:39-46)

72. Matthew and Mark agree that Jesus went away and prayed three times. What were the words of the second prayer?

• Mark does not give the words but he says that the words were the same as the first prayer (Mark 14:3 9)
  
• Matthew gives us the words, and we can see that they are not the same as in the first (Matthew 26:42)

73. What did the centurion say when Jesus dies?

• Certainly this man was innocent (Luke 23:47)
  
• Truly this man was the Son of God (Mark 15:39)

74. When Jesus said My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken Me ? in what language did he speak?

• Hebrew: the words are Eloi, Eloi ..(Matthew 27:46)
  
• Aramaic: the words are Eloi, Eloi .. (Mark   15:34)

75. According to the gospels, what were the last words of Jesus before he died?

• Father, into thy hands I commit my spirit! (Luke 23:46)
  
• "It is finished" (John 19:30)

76. When Jesus entered Capernaum he healed the slave of a centurion. Did the centurion come personally to request Jesus for this?

• Yes (Matthew 8:5)
  
• No. He sent some elders of the Jews and his friends (Luke 7:3,6)

77. Adam was told that if and when he eats the forbidden fruit he would die the same day (Genesis 2:17)

• Adam ate the fruit and went on to live to a ripe old age of 930 years (Genesis 5:5)

78. God decided that the life-span of humans will be limited to 120 years (Genesis 6:3)

• Many people born after that lived longer than 120. Arpachshad lived 438 years. His son Shelah lived 433 years. His son Eber lived 464 years, etc. (Genesis 11:12-16)

79. Apart from Jesus did anyone else ascend to heaven?

• No (John 3:13)
  
• Yes. And Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven (2 Kings 2:11)

80. Who was high priest when David went into the house of God and ate the consecrated bread?

• Abiathar (Mark 2:26)
  
• Ahimelech, the father of Abiathar (I Samuel 1:1; 22:20)

81. Was Jesus body wrapped in spices before burial in accordance with Jewish burial customs?

• Yes and his female disciples witnessed his burial (John 19:39-40)
  
• No. Jesus was simply wrapped in a linen shroud. Then the women bought and prepared spices so that they may go and anoint him [Jesus) (Mark 16: 1)

82. When did the women buy the spices?

• After the Sabbath was past (Mark 16:1)
  
• Before the Sabbath. The women prepared spices and ointments. Then, on the Sabbath they rested according to the commandment (Luke 23:55 to 24:1)

83. At what time of day did the women visit the tomb?

• Toward the dawn (Matthew 28: 1)
  
• When the sun had risen (Mark 16:2)

84. What was the purpose for which the women went to the tomb?

• To anoint Jesus body with spices (Mark 16: 1; Luke 23:55 to 24: 1)
  
• To see the tomb. Nothing about spices here (Matthew 28: 1)
  
• For no specified reason. In this gospel the wrapping with spices had been done before the Sabbath (John 20: 1)

85. A large stone was placed at the entrance of the tomb. Where was the stone when the women arrived?

• They saw that the stone was Rolled back (Mark 16:4) They found the stone rolled away from the tomb (Luke 24:2) They saw that the stone had been taken away from the tomb (John 20:1)
  
• As the women approached, an angel descended from heaven, rolled away the stone, and conversed with the women. Matthew made the women witness the spectacular rolling away of the stone (Matthew 28:1-6)

86. Did anyone tell the women what happened to Jesus body?

• Yes. A young man in a white robe (Mark 16:5). Two men ... in dazzling apparel later described as angels (Luke 24:4 and 24:23). An angel - the one who rolled back the stone (Matthew 16:2). In each case the women were told that Jesus had risen from the dead (Matthew 28:7; Mark 16:6; Luke 24:5 footnote)
  
• No. Mary met no one and returned saying, They have taken the Lord out of the tomb, and we do not know where they have laid him (John 20:2)

87. When did Mary Magdelene first meet the resurrected Jesus? And how did she react?

• Mary and the other women met Jesus on their way back from their first and only visit to the tomb. They took hold of his feet and worshipped him (Matthew 28:9)
  
• On her second visit to the tomb Mary met Jesus just outside the tomb. When she saw Jesus she did not recognize him. She mistook him for the gardener. She still thinks that Jesus body is laid to rest somewhere and she demands to know where. But when Jesus said her name she at once recognized him and called him Teacher. Jesus said to her, Do not hold me... (John 20:11 to 17)

88. What was Jesus instruction for his disciples?

• Tell my brethren to go to Galilee, and there they will see me (Matthew 2 8: 10)
  
• Go to my brethren and say to them, I am ascending to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God (John 20:17)

89. When did the disciples return to Galilee?

• Immediately, because when they saw Jesus in Galilee some doubted (Matthew 28:17). This period of uncertainty should not persist
  
• After at least 40 days. That evening the disciples were still in Jerusalem (Luke 24:3 3). Jesus appeared to them there and told them, stay in the city until you are clothed with power from on high (Luke 24:49). He was appearing to them during forty days (Acts 1:3), and charged them not to depart from Jerusalem, but to wait for the promise ... (Acts 1:4)

90. To whom did the Midianites sell Joseph?

• To the Ishmaelites (Genesis 37:28)
  
• To Potiphar, an officer of Pharaoh (Genesis 37:36)

91. Who brought Joseph to Egypt?

• The Ishmaelites bought Joseph and then took Joseph to Egypt (Genesis 37:28)
  
• The Midianites had sold him in Egypt (Genesis 37:36)
  
• Joseph said to his brothers I am your brother, Joseph, whom you sold into Egypt (Genesis 45:4)

92. Does God change his mind?

• Yes. The word of the Lord came to Samuel: I repent that I have made Saul King... (I Samuel 15:10 to 11)
  
• No. God will not lie or repent; for he is not a man, that he should repent (I Samuel 15:29)

Yes. And the Lord repented that he had made Saul King over Israel (I Samuel 15:35). Notice that the above three quotes are all from the same chapter of the same book! In addition, the Bible shows that God repented on several other occasions:

i. The Lord was sorry that he made man (Genesis 6:6)

I am sorry that I have made them (Genesis 6:7)

ii. And the Lord repented of the evil which he thought to do to his people (Exodus 32:14).

iii. (Lots of other such references).

93. The Bible says that for each miracle Moses and Aaron demonstrated the magicians did the same by their secret arts. Then comes the following feat:

• Moses and Aaron converted all the available water into blood (Exodus 7:20-21)
  
• The magicians did the same (Exodus 7:22). This is impossible, since there would have been no water left to convert into blood.

94. Who killed Goliath?

• David (I Samuel 17:23, 50)
  
• Elhanan (2 Samuel 21:19)

95. Who killed Saul?

• Saul took his own sword and fell upon it.... Thus Saul died... (I Samuel 31:4-6)
  
• An Amalekite slew him (2 Samuel 1:1- 16)

96. Does every man sin?

• Yes. There is no man who does not sin (I Kings 8:46; see also 2 Chronicles 6:36; Proverbs 20:9; Ecclesiastes 7:20; and I John 1:810)
  
• No. True Christians cannot possibly sin, because they are the children of God. Every one who believes that Jesus is the Christ is a child of God.. (I John 5:1). We should be called children of God; and so we are (I John 3: 1). He who loves is born of God (I John 4:7). No one born of God commits sin; for Gods nature abides in him, and he cannot sin because he is born of God (I John 3:9). But, then again, Yes! If we say we have no sin we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us (I John 1:8)

97. Who will bear whose burden?

• Bear one anothers burdens, and so fulfill the law of Christ (Galatians 6:2)
  
• Each man will have to bear his own load (Galatians 6:5)

98. How many disciples did Jesus appear to after his resurrection?

• Twelve (I Corinthians 15:5)
  
• Eleven (Matthew 27:3-5 and Acts 1:9-26, see also Matthew 28:16; Mark 16:14 footnote; Luke 24:9; Luke 24:3 3)

99. Where was Jesus three days after his baptism?

• After his baptism, the spirit immediately drove him out into the wilderness. And he was in the wilderness forty days ... (Mark 1:12-13)
  
• Next day after the baptism, Jesus selected two disciples. Second day: Jesus went to Galilee - two more disciples. Third day: Jesus was at a wedding feast in Cana in Galilee (see John 1:35; 1:43; 2:1-11)

100. Was baby Jesus life threatened in Jerusalem?

• Yes, so Joseph fled with him to Egypt and stayed there until Herod died (Matthew 2:13 23)
  
• No. The family fled nowhere. They calmly presented the child at the Jerusalem temple according to the Jewish customs and returned to Galilee (Luke 2:21-40)

101. When Jesus walked on water how did the disciples respond?

• They worshipped him, saying, Truly you are the Son of God (Matthew 14:33)
  
• They were utterly astounded, for they did not understand about the loaves, but their hearts were hardened (Mark 6:51-52)

Back to Contradictions and History of Corruption in the Bible.
Just who were the real authors of the Bible?  Today's Books and Gospels' authors of the Bible are UNKNOWN.  See the comments from the NIV Bible itself.
Quotes from the Roman Catholic Encyclopedia admitting that the Bible had been corrupt and the original manuscripts had been lost.

[14infallibles]

But.. But... how can the bible be contradicting if it is the word of God??????????

[Pascal]

I think this is in the wrong forum, quiet impressive if you wrote it yourself though.

[al-`Ajal Ya Imaam]

dude, i need to give you credit, this takes some real dedication. plus you wrote it yourself, man you got my respect

[Alizee Sukeyna]

Raised Christian (long time ex-Christian now) here and this list actually made me yell, "YES!"
Because even as a child I had noticed so many indescrepencies and condractictions in the bible...but I was told I was wrong and just not, "Following the scripture like I should be."
looooooooooool
THANK YOU for posting! Definitely bookmarking this!

[titumir]

I've seen this a few years previously. This is not written by the OP!

[Hasnain Ali1]

That was a very good read, i heard there is also a book called 50000 errors of the bible where a scholr found contraditions and errors, May Allah reward you

[MysticKnight]

You can't know these are contradictions unless you get the words of the Prophets these are attributed to explaining it.

[placid]

Quote from Post 1:

This is an interesting list of discrepancies. I answered a list of 21 before and most, if not all, are on this list.

All of those from the OT need to be asked of a Jewish scholar.
While Christians believe the whole Bible they are not interested in the original Semetic languages that were perhaps translated into Hebrew, then the OT translated into Greek, and the NT written in Greek, and then into English which was not yet known in Muhammad’s time.

--- However, there are a couple of things to consider. --- The Scriptures were already translated into various languages including Arabic, --- so they had them in hand in Arabic when the angel Gabriel revealed the messages in the Quran, --- and he at no time criticized anything written in the NT, did he? --- (Maybe there were less discrepancies in the Arabic, --- but the important thing is the message given in each revelation, is it not?  

This confirmation is given in Surah 3:
2. God! There is no god but He, - the Living, the Self-Subsisting, Eternal.
3. It is He Who sent down to thee (step by step), in truth, the Book, confirming what went before it; and He sent down the Law (of Moses) and the Gospel (of Jesus)
4.  Before this, as a guide to mankind, and He sent down the criterion (of judgment between right and wrong). Then those who reject Faith in the Signs of God will suffer the severest penalty, and God is Exalted in Might, Lord of Retribution.

7. He it is Who hath revealed unto thee (Muhammad) the Scripture wherein are clear revelations - they are the substance of the Book --- and others (which are) allegorical. But those in whose hearts is doubt pursue, forsooth, that which is allegorical seeking (to cause) dissension by seeking to explain it.
None knoweth its explanation save God. And those who are of sound instruction say: We believe therein; the whole is from our Lord; but only men of understanding really heed.
--- (Notice, it says, some who doubt, like to dispute parts with indefinite meanings, to cause division)

Also, this verse should be convincing, from Surah 29:
46. And dispute ye not with the People of the Book, except with means better (than mere disputation), unless it be with those of them who inflict wrong (and injury): --- but say, "We believe in the revelation which has come down to us and in that which came down to you; Our God and your God is one; and it is to Him we bow (in surrender)."

--- Those who find fault with God and His word should ‘dispute it’ for the purpose of improving their understanding.  
For instance, --- using the Scripture in no 86, it is evident that there has to be some belief that Jesus died and was put in the tomb and was raised to life again. ---(Or there would be no interest in it, would there be?)  

--- However, the second statement is not true, so I will show you the Scripture.

No 86. --- Did anyone tell the women what happened to Jesus body?
• Yes. A young man in a white rob the (Mark 16:5). Two men ... in dazzling apparel later described as angels (Luke 24:4 and 24:23). An angel - the one who rolled back the stone (Matthew 16:2). In each case the women were told that Jesus had risen from the dead (Matthew 28:7; Mark 16:6; Luke 24:5 footnote)
• No. Mary met no one and returned saying, They have taken the Lord out of the tomb, and we do not know where they have laid him (John 20:2)

--- To continue reading you find that Mary talked to the angels as well as to Jesus, in John 20:
1. Now on the first day of the week Mary Magdalene went to the tomb early, while it was still dark, and saw that the stone had been taken away from the tomb.  
2 Then she ran and came to Simon Peter, and to the other disciple , whom Jesus loved, and said to them, “They have taken away the Lord out of the tomb, and we do not know where they have laid Him.”
--- (She first met Peter and John, who wrote this Gospel)
3 Peter therefore went out, and the other disciple, and were going to the tomb.
4 So they both ran together, and the other disciple outran Peter and came to the tomb first.
5 And he, stooping down and looking in, saw the linen cloths lying there; yet he did not go in.
6 Then Simon Peter came, following him, and went into the tomb; and he  saw the linen cloths lying there,
7 and the handkerchief that had been around His head, not lying with the linen cloths, but folded together in a place by itself.
8 Then the other disciple, who came to the tomb first, went in also; and he (John) saw and believed.
--- (Mary would have followed them back to the tomb and stayed there after Peter and John had left. Peter and John likely told others.)

11 But Mary stood outside by the tomb weeping, and as she wept she stooped down and looked into the tomb.
12 And she saw two angels in white sitting, one at the head and the other at the feet, where the body of Jesus had lain.
13 Then they said to her, “Woman, why are you weeping?”
She said to them, “Because they have taken away my Lord, and I do not know where they have laid Him.”
14 Now when she had said this, she turned around and saw Jesus standing there, and did not know that it was Jesus.
15 Jesus said to her, “Woman, why are you weeping? Whom are you seeking?”
She, supposing Him to be the gardener, said to Him, “Sir, if You have carried Him away, tell me where You have laid Him, and I will take Him away.”
16 Jesus said to her, “Mary!”
She turned and said to Him,[a] “Rabboni!” (which is to say, Teacher).
--- (And how many others would she tell?)


Placid

[Abu Hadi]

placid, on 21 July 2012 - 07:50 AM, said:

Quote from Post 1:

This is an interesting list of discrepancies. I answered a list of 21 before and most, if not all, are on this list.

All of those from the OT need to be asked of a Jewish scholar.
While Christians believe the whole Bible they are not interested in the original Semetic languages that were perhaps translated into Hebrew, then the OT translated into Greek, and the NT written in Greek, and then into English which was not yet known in Muhammad’s time.

Hello Placid,

It doesn't make sense to me why they would not be interested in the actual words of Jesus. Those words were said in a particular language (Aramaic) and a particular context. To read a translation (Greek) of a translation (English) and then say you know what the original words of Jesus is not accurate. If you believe that Jesus(a.s) is God Incarnate(astahfirAllah) wouldn't you want to know the actual words rather than a translation of a translation ?

placid, on 21 July 2012 - 07:50 AM, said:

--- However, there are a couple of things to consider. --- The Scriptures were already translated into various languages including Arabic, --- so they had them in hand in Arabic when the angel Gabriel revealed the messages in the Quran, --- and he at no time criticized anything written in the NT, did he? --- (Maybe there were less discrepancies in the Arabic, --- but the important thing is the message given in each revelation, is it not?  

Yes. He(s.w.a) did.

تِلْكَ الرُّسُلُ فَضَّلْنَا بَعْضَهُمْ عَلَى بَعْضٍ مِّنْهُم مَّن كَلَّمَ اللّهُ وَرَفَعَ بَعْضَهُمْ دَرَجَاتٍ وَآتَيْنَا عِيسَى ابْنَ مَرْيَمَ الْبَيِّنَاتِ وَأَيَّدْنَاهُ بِرُوحِ الْقُدُسِ وَلَوْ شَاء اللّهُ مَا اقْتَتَلَ الَّذِينَ مِن بَعْدِهِم مِّن بَعْدِ مَا جَاءتْهُمُ الْبَيِّنَاتُ وَلَـكِنِ اخْتَلَفُواْ فَمِنْهُم مَّنْ آمَنَ وَمِنْهُم مَّن كَفَرَ وَلَوْ شَاء اللّهُ مَا اقْتَتَلُواْ وَلَـكِنَّ اللّهَ يَفْعَلُ مَا يُرِيدُ (2:253)

Some of these apostles have We endowed more highly than others: among them were such as.were spoken to by God [Himself], and some He has raised yet higher.' And We vouchsafed unto Jesus, the son of Mary, all evidence of the truth, and strengthened him with holy inspiration. And if God had so willed, they who succeeded those [apostles] would not have contended with one another after all evidence of the truth had come to them; but [as it was,] they did take to divergent views, and some of them attained to faith, while some of them came to deny the truth. Yet if God had so willed, they would not have contended with one another: but God does whatever He wills

وَقَوْلِهِمْ إِنَّا قَتَلْنَا الْمَسِيحَ عِيسَى ابْنَ مَرْيَمَ رَسُولَ اللّهِ وَمَا قَتَلُوهُ وَمَا صَلَبُوهُ وَلَـكِن شُبِّهَ لَهُمْ وَإِنَّ الَّذِينَ اخْتَلَفُواْ فِيهِ لَفِي شَكٍّ مِّنْهُ مَا لَهُم بِهِ مِنْ عِلْمٍ إِلاَّ اتِّبَاعَ الظَّنِّ وَمَا قَتَلُوهُ يَقِينًا (4:157)

and their boast, "Behold, we have slain the Christ Jesus, son of Mary, [who claimed to be] an apostle of God!" However, they did not slay him, and neither did they crucify him, but it only seemed to them [as if it had been] so; and, verily, those who hold conflict­ing views thereon are indeed confused, having no [real] knowledge thereof, and following mere con­jecture. For, of a certainty, they did not slay him:

وَإِن مِّنْ أَهْلِ الْكِتَابِ إِلاَّ لَيُؤْمِنَنَّ بِهِ قَبْلَ مَوْتِهِ وَيَوْمَ الْقِيَامَةِ يَكُونُ عَلَيْهِمْ شَهِيدًا (4:159)

Yet there is not one of the followers of earlier revelation who does not, at the moment of his death, grasp the truth about Jesus; and on the Day of Resurrection he [himself] shall bear witness to the truth against them

يَا أَهْلَ الْكِتَابِ لاَ تَغْلُواْ فِي دِينِكُمْ وَلاَ تَقُولُواْ عَلَى اللّهِ إِلاَّ الْحَقِّ إِنَّمَا الْمَسِيحُ عِيسَى ابْنُ مَرْيَمَ رَسُولُ اللّهِ وَكَلِمَتُهُ أَلْقَاهَا إِلَى مَرْيَمَ وَرُوحٌ مِّنْهُ فَآمِنُواْ بِاللّهِ وَرُسُلِهِ وَلاَ تَقُولُواْ ثَلاَثَةٌ انتَهُواْ خَيْرًا لَّكُمْ إِنَّمَا اللّهُ إِلَـهٌ وَاحِدٌ سُبْحَانَهُ أَن يَكُونَ لَهُ وَلَدٌ لَّهُ مَا فِي السَّمَاوَات وَمَا فِي الأَرْضِ وَكَفَى بِاللّهِ وَكِيلاً (4:171)

O FOLLOWERS of the Gospel! Do not overstep the bounds [of truth] in your religious beliefs, and do not say of God anything but the truth. The Christ Jesus, son of Mary, was but God's Apostle - [the fulfilment of] His promise which He had conveyed unto Mary - and a soul created by Him. Believe, then, in God and His apostles, and do not say, "[God is] a trinity". Desist [from this assertion] for your own good. God is but One God; utterly remote is He, in His glory, from having a son: unto Him belongs all that is in the heavens and all that is on earth; and none is as worthy of trust as God

وَإِذْ قَالَ اللّهُ يَا عِيسَى ابْنَ مَرْيَمَ أَأَنتَ قُلتَ لِلنَّاسِ اتَّخِذُونِي وَأُمِّيَ إِلَـهَيْنِ مِن دُونِ اللّهِ قَالَ سُبْحَانَكَ مَا يَكُونُ لِي أَنْ أَقُولَ مَا لَيْسَ لِي بِحَقٍّ إِن كُنتُ قُلْتُهُ فَقَدْ عَلِمْتَهُ تَعْلَمُ مَا فِي نَفْسِي وَلاَ أَعْلَمُ مَا فِي نَفْسِكَ إِنَّكَ أَنتَ عَلاَّمُ الْغُيُوبِ (5:116)

O Jesus, son of Mary! Didst thou say unto men, `Worship me and my mother as deities beside God'?" [Jesus] answered: "Limitless art Thou in Thy glory! It would not have been possible for me to say what I had no right to [say]! Had I said this, Thou wouldst indeed have known it! Thou knowest all that is within myself, whereas I know not what is in Thy Self. Verily, it is Thou alone who fully knowest all the things that are beyond the reach of a created being's perception. -

ذَلِكَ عِيسَى ابْنُ مَرْيَمَ قَوْلَ الْحَقِّ الَّذِي فِيهِ يَمْتَرُونَ

SUCH WAS, in the words of truth, Jesus the son of Mary, about whose nature they so deeply disagree

فَاخْتَلَفَ الْأَحْزَابُ مِن بَيْنِهِمْ فَوَيْلٌ لِّلَّذِينَ كَفَرُوا مِن مَّشْهَدِ يَوْمٍ عَظِيمٍ (19:37)

And yet, the sects [that follow the Bible] are at variance among themselves [about the nature of Jesus Woe, then, unto all who deny the truth when that awesome Day will appear!

شَرَعَ لَكُم مِّنَ الدِّينِ مَا وَصَّى بِهِ نُوحًا وَالَّذِي أَوْحَيْنَا إِلَيْكَ وَمَا وَصَّيْنَا بِهِ إِبْرَاهِيمَ وَمُوسَى وَعِيسَى أَنْ أَقِيمُوا الدِّينَ وَلَا تَتَفَرَّقُوا فِيهِ كَبُرَ عَلَى الْمُشْرِكِينَ مَا تَدْعُوهُمْ إِلَيْهِ اللَّهُ يَجْتَبِي إِلَيْهِ مَن يَشَاء وَيَهْدِي إِلَيْهِ مَن يُنِيبُ (42:13)



شَرَعَ لَكُم مِّنَ الدِّينِ مَا وَصَّى بِهِ نُوحًا وَالَّذِي أَوْحَيْنَا إِلَيْكَ وَمَا وَصَّيْنَا بِهِ إِبْرَاهِيمَ وَمُوسَى وَعِيسَى أَنْ أَقِيمُوا الدِّينَ وَلَا تَتَفَرَّقُوا فِيهِ كَبُرَ عَلَى الْمُشْرِكِينَ مَا تَدْعُوهُمْ إِلَيْهِ اللَّهُ يَجْتَبِي إِلَيْهِ مَن يَشَاء وَيَهْدِي إِلَيْهِ مَن يُنِيبُ (42:13)
He has ordained for you that which He had enjoined upon Noah - and into which We gave thee [O Muhammad] insight through revelation as well as that which We had enjoined upon Abraham, and Moses, and Jesus: Steadfastly uphold the [true] faith, and do not break up your unity therein. [And even though] that [unity of faith] to which thou callest them appears oppressive to those who are wont to ascribe to other beings or forces a share in His divinity, God draws unto Himself everyone who is willing, and guides unto Himself everyone who turns unto Him

إِنْ هُوَ إِلَّا عَبْدٌ أَنْعَمْنَا عَلَيْهِ وَجَعَلْنَاهُ مَثَلًا لِّبَنِي إِسْرَائِيلَ (43:59)

[As for Jesus,] he was nothing but [a human being -] a servant [of Ours] whom We had graced [with prophethood], and whom We made an example for the children of Israel .

فَاخْتَلَفَ الْأَحْزَابُ مِن بَيْنِهِمْ فَوَيْلٌ لِّلَّذِينَ ظَلَمُوا مِنْ عَذَابِ يَوْمٍ أَلِيمٍ (43:65)

But factions from among those [who came after Jesus] began to hold divergent views: woe, then, unto those who are bent on evildoing - [woe] for the suffering [that will befall them] on a grie­vous Day! -  Our apostles to follow in their footsteps; and [in the course of time] We caused them to be followed by Jesus, the son of Mary, upon whom We bestowed the Gospel; and in the hearts of those who [truly] followed him We engendered compassion and mercy. But as for monastic asceticism - We did not enjoin it upon them: they invented it themselves out of a desire for God’s goodly acceptance. But then, they did not [always] observe it as it ought to have been observed: and so We granted their recompense unto such of them as had [truly] attained to faith, whereas many of them became iniquitous.

وَإِذْ قَالَ عِيسَى ابْنُ مَرْيَمَ يَا بَنِي إِسْرَائِيلَ إِنِّي رَسُولُ اللَّهِ إِلَيْكُم مُّصَدِّقًا لِّمَا بَيْنَ يَدَيَّ مِنَ التَّوْرَاةِ وَمُبَشِّرًا بِرَسُولٍ يَأْتِي مِن بَعْدِي اسْمُهُ أَحْمَدُ فَلَمَّا جَاءهُم بِالْبَيِّنَاتِ قَالُوا هَذَا سِحْرٌ مُّبِينٌ (61:6)

And [this happened, too,] when Jesus, the son of Mary, said: "O children of Israel! Behold, I am an apostle of God unto you, [sent] to confirm the truth of whatever there still remains of the Torah, and to give [you] the glad tiding of an apostle who shall come after me, whose name shall be Ahmad." But when he [whose coming Jesus had foretold] came unto them with all evidence of the truth, they said: "This [alleged message of his] is [nothing but] spellbinding eloquence!

يَا أَيُّهَا الَّذِينَ آَمَنُوا كُونوا أَنصَارَ اللَّهِ كَمَا قَالَ عِيسَى ابْنُ مَرْيَمَ لِلْحَوَارِيِّينَ مَنْ أَنصَارِي إِلَى اللَّهِ قَالَ الْحَوَارِيُّونَ نَحْنُ أَنصَارُ اللَّهِ فَآَمَنَت طَّائِفَةٌ مِّن بَنِي إِسْرَائِيلَ وَكَفَرَت طَّائِفَةٌ فَأَيَّدْنَا الَّذِينَ آَمَنُوا عَلَى عَدُوِّهِمْ فَأَصْبَحُوا ظَاهِرِينَ (61:14)

O YOU who have attained to faith! Be helpers [in the cause of God - even as Jesus, the son of Mary, said unto the white-garbed ones, "Who will be my helpers in God's cause?" - whereupon the white-garbed [disciples] replied, "We shall be [thy] helpers [in the cause] of God!" And so [it happened that] some of the children of Israel came to believe [in the apostleship of Jesus], whereas others denied the truth. But [now] We have given strength against their foes unto those who have [truly] attained to faith: and they have become the ones that shall prevail.

placid, on 21 July 2012 - 07:50 AM, said:

This confirmation is given in Surah 3:
2. God! There is no god but He, - the Living, the Self-Subsisting, Eternal.
3. It is He Who sent down to thee (step by step), in truth, the Book, confirming what went before it; and He sent down the Law (of Moses) and the Gospel (of Jesus)
4.  Before this, as a guide to mankind, and He sent down the criterion (of judgment between right and wrong). Then those who reject Faith in the Signs of God will suffer the severest penalty, and God is Exalted in Might, Lord of Retribution.

These ayat that you quote use the Arabic words 'Injeel' and 'Taurat'. The Injeel is not the New Testement. The Injeel is the revelation that was sent down by Allah(s.w.a) to Jesus(a.s) in the form of a book. The Injeel was given to the sucessor of Jesus (most Shia Scholars say this was Simon Peter) and at some point between this time and the time of Prophet Muhammad, this book was lost. Some followers of Jesus attempted to recreate some of this book from memory and some changed parts of it to suit their own desires. The 'Taurat' was the original revelation to Moses, it is not the Old Testament. The Injeel and Taurat don't exist anymore in their original forms (on Earth anyway that we know of). This is why it was necessary for Allah(s.w.a) to bring the Last Prophet, Muhammad(p.b.u.h) with the Quran in order to clarify the inconsistencies and inaccuracies that had crept into the (at one time) Divine Books.

Edited by Abu Hadi, 21 July 2012 - 10:15 AM.

[placid]

Hi Abu,

Thank you for your response, --- I wonder if you can help me by giving the references in the Quran of each verse you have given in Arabic and translated into English. --- I am familiar with some, but I want to check them all in the regular translations, as I usually do with Scripture.

However, I will answer your first and last statements together to start with.
Quote: 2:253.  Some of these apostles have We endowed more highly than others: among them were such as were spoken to by God [Himself], and some He has raised yet higher.' And We vouchsafed unto Jesus, the son of Mary, all evidence of the truth, and strengthened him with holy inspiration.

--- “all evidence of the truth, and strengthened Him with holy inspiration (the Holy Spirit).
--- This said that Jesus had all the knowledge from God.
I had written this answer in a post recently so I will add it here, to respond to your mention of the Injeel.

The other poster said:
Quote: The word used is injeel. It is foolish to assume that gospels are injeel.

My response: --- In Surah 3:48 it uses the word Gospel in this verse:
48. “And He will teach him the Scripture and wisdom, and the Torah and the Gospel,”

--- 7 out of the ten common translators use Gospel,
--- 1 uses the word Evangel, which also means ‘good news.’
Shakir uses Injeel: “And He will teach him the Book and the wisdom and the Taurat and the Injeel.”
Hilali Khan uses Injeel (Gospel): “And He (Allah) will teach him ['Iesa (Jesus)] the Book and wisdom, and the Taurat (Torah) and the Injeel (Gospel).”

--- Notice that it was God who taught Jesus the Book (OT), wisdom, the Torah, and the Gospel. --- There never was a book called the Injeel, because God revealed wisdom to Jesus through His intellect, did He not?
--- Is this not the same way that Muhammad was given the revelations from Gabriel, through his intellect? He then had to teach it to others who wrote it down, did he not?
It is understood that Matthew was the regular ‘recorder’ for Jesus and perhaps wrote even as Jesus spoke.

3:48. "And God will teach him the Book and Wisdom, the Law and the Gospel,
Shakir: And He will teach him the Book and the wisdom and the Taurat and the Injeel.

Then Jesus in turn taught all of the Gospel (Injeel) to the disciples. --- As it says in John 14:
25. “These things I have spoken to you while being present with you.
26 But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all things that I said to you.”

--- Not only did Jesus teach them, but the coming Holy Spirit would bring to their memory all that He said to them.

And again before He left them He said this in His prayer to God, in John 17:
6. “I have manifested Your name to the men whom You have given Me out of the world. They were Yours, You gave them to Me, and they have kept Your word.
7 Now they have known that all things which You have given Me are from You.
8 For I have given to them the words which You have given Me; and they have received them, and have known surely that I came forth from You; and they have believed that You sent Me.”

--- So, it remains that all Jesus received, He taught to the disciples, --- which is recorded in the Gospels according to the writers who wrote with slightly different emphasis.

--- Mathew wrote to the Jews, --- Mark wrote to the Romans (Mark and Peter were in Rome for years, so this incorporates Peters teaching as well) --- Luke wrote to the Greeks, --- and John later wrote his general Gospel for all.

There is the record in early Church writing that Matthew first wrote “The Sayings of Jesus,” in Aramaic, which I would believe to be Matthew 5, 6, and 7, which are really called ‘the sayings of Jesus.’ --- Then he wrote a Gospel in Aramaic, which would be incorporated in his later account in Greek, --- so I think we have it all recorded.

To have the most accurate account of Jesus’ words, they are written in Red in what is called the ‘Red Letter Edition.’ --- I use a New King James Red Letter Edition.
It makes it faster and easier to read, --- and makes it easy to check the actual words of Jesus.
--- I suppose the most accurate would be to read them in Greek.


Placid

[ateef]

Placid, take Good from whatever you get...And yes The bible Its a thing coming from a long time undergoing so many translations...\
Aramaic...Latin....Greek...Syriac..And etc etc///
So yes the damage has been made...But As I friend...i Would Like to suggest you is leave this and concentrate on learning whats important...Say The Aramaic language...You are Lucky..

There is the book Pes-s-h-i-taa... means staright....Still Avaliable...You might get to look in much deeper...

You Will come Across The Word >>> Aloah <<<< in It..And lots More...

Or you want the easy way...is Embrace Islam...And Know The Truth...And That's a Straight path...

Edited by ateef, 21 July 2012 - 01:43 PM.

[Abu Hadi]

placid, on 21 July 2012 - 01:01 PM, said:

Hi Abu,

Thank you for your response, --- I wonder if you can help me by giving the references in the Quran of each verse you have given in Arabic and translated into English. --- I am familiar with some, but I want to check them all in the regular translations, as I usually do with Scripture.

However, I will answer your first and last statements together to start with.
Quote: 2:253.  Some of these apostles have We endowed more highly than others: among them were such as were spoken to by God [Himself], and some He has raised yet higher.' And We vouchsafed unto Jesus, the son of Mary, all evidence of the truth, and strengthened him with holy inspiration.

--- “all evidence of the truth, and strengthened Him with holy inspiration (the Holy Spirit).
--- This said that Jesus had all the knowledge from God.
I had written this answer in a post recently so I will add it here, to respond to your mention of the Injeel.

The other poster said:
Quote: The word used is injeel. It is foolish to assume that gospels are injeel.

My response: --- In Surah 3:48 it uses the word Gospel in this verse:
48. “And He will teach him the Scripture and wisdom, and the Torah and the Gospel,”

--- 7 out of the ten common translators use Gospel,
--- 1 uses the word Evangel, which also means ‘good news.’
Shakir uses Injeel: “And He will teach him the Book and the wisdom and the Taurat and the Injeel.”
Hilali Khan uses Injeel (Gospel): “And He (Allah) will teach him ['Iesa (Jesus)] the Book and wisdom, and the Taurat (Torah) and the Injeel (Gospel).”

--- Notice that it was God who taught Jesus the Book (OT), wisdom, the Torah, and the Gospel. --- There never was a book called the Injeel, because God revealed wisdom to Jesus through His intellect, did He not?
--- Is this not the same way that Muhammad was given the revelations from Gabriel, through his intellect? He then had to teach it to others who wrote it down, did he not?
It is understood that Matthew was the regular ‘recorder’ for Jesus and perhaps wrote even as Jesus spoke.

3:48. "And God will teach him the Book and Wisdom, the Law and the Gospel,
Shakir: And He will teach him the Book and the wisdom and the Taurat and the Injeel.

Then Jesus in turn taught all of the Gospel (Injeel) to the disciples. --- As it says in John 14:
25. “These things I have spoken to you while being present with you.
26 But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all things that I said to you.”

--- Not only did Jesus teach them, but the coming Holy Spirit would bring to their memory all that He said to them.

And again before He left them He said this in His prayer to God, in John 17:
6. “I have manifested Your name to the men whom You have given Me out of the world. They were Yours, You gave them to Me, and they have kept Your word.
7 Now they have known that all things which You have given Me are from You.
8 For I have given to them the words which You have given Me; and they have received them, and have known surely that I came forth from You; and they have believed that You sent Me.”

--- So, it remains that all Jesus received, He taught to the disciples, --- which is recorded in the Gospels according to the writers who wrote with slightly different emphasis.

Hi Placid,

According to every single commentator on the Quran, both Sunni and Shia (it is unanimous), the Injeel is the revelation given to Jesus(a.s) in written form. The reason why there are variant translation of the word 'Injeel' is because it is an Arabic word and there is no English equivalent word for it. There are many other words in the Quran which have no English equivalent (but that is another discussion).
That is why if you can only read the translation of the Quran and you cannot understand it in its original form (in Arabic) there will be many Quranic words and concepts that you will be confused about. That is why all muslims are encouraged to learn Arabic enough so that they can understand the basics of the Quran.

[Haydar Husayn]

placid, on 21 July 2012 - 07:50 AM, said:

All of those from the OT need to be asked of a Jewish scholar.
While Christians believe the whole Bible they are not interested in the original Semetic languages that were perhaps translated into Hebrew, then the OT translated into Greek, and the NT written in Greek, and then into English which was not yet known in Muhammad’s time.

Christian scholars are not interested in Hebrew? Where on earth did you get that idea from? Go to any Bible seminary, and they teach Hebrew and well as Koine Greek (the language the New Testament was written in).

Also, if you want to leave the OT completely in the hands of Jewish scholars when someone asks questions about it, then you should be consistent and not try to use the OT to make theological points yourself. So that means not trying to find prophesies of Jesus in the OT, for example in Isaiah 53, since Jewish scholars do not accept the Christian interpretation of those texts. Are you willing to do that?

[placid]

Hi Ateef,
Quote: And yes The bible Its a thing coming from a long time undergoing so many translations...\
Aramaic...Latin....Greek...Syriac..And etc etc///
So yes the damage has been made...But As I friend...i Would Like to suggest you is leave this and concentrate on learning whats important...Say The Aramaic language...You are Lucky..

Response: --- Actually the translations didn’t change the Scriptures, as any discrepancies were in that one language and weren’t carried one to another.
--- With each new translation they related back to the most ancient copies.
The Books of Moses were the same in Hebrew so if they were translated to another language, they may use different words or terms to explain it, --- but the next language went back to the Hebrew to translate from it again.
It is a wrong concept that there is corruption in the word of God, --- Our English Bibles, which were translated from the Hebrew and Greek are accurate, with the exception of choice of words of the translators.
In 625 AD Gabriel confirmed the former Scriptures as revelations from God, Surah 3:2-4-

It is the same in the various translations of the Quran, where the difference from Arabic to English is the choice of words of the translator, is it not?

Thanks for your thoughts but the ‘Truth’ is in the Bible, --- and the revelations in the Quran, is it not?

Quote: Or you want the easy way...is Embrace Islam...And Know The Truth...And That's a Straight path...

Response: --- Good for you if you are walking the straight path of truth.

---The Quran also repeats the initiation, action, and end result of the walk of Faith for Christians, it is recorded in Surah 3:  
47. She said: "O my Lord! How shall I have a son when no man hath touched me?" He said: "Even so: God createth what He willeth: When He hath decreed a plan, He but saith to it, 'Be,' and it is!
48. "And God will teach him the Book and Wisdom, the Law and the Gospel,
49. "And (appoint him) an apostle to the Children of Israel, (with this message): "'I have come to you, with a Sign from your Lord, in that I make for you out of clay, as it were, the figure of a bird, and breathe into it, and it becomes a bird by God's leave: And I heal those born blind, and the lepers, and I quicken the dead, by God's leave; and I declare to you what ye eat, and what ye store in your houses. Surely therein is a Sign for you if ye did believe;
50. "'(I have come to you), to attest the Law which was before me. And to make lawful to you part of what was (Before) forbidden to you; I have come to you with a Sign from your Lord. So fear God, and obey me.
51. "'It is God Who is my Lord and your Lord; then worship Him. This is a Way that is straight.'"
52. When Jesus found Unbelief on their part He said: "Who will be My helpers to (the work of) God?" Said the disciples: "We are God's helpers: We believe in God, and do thou bear witness that we are Muslims. (Surrendered ones).
53. "Our Lord! we believe in what Thou hast revealed, and we follow the Apostle (Jesus); then write us down among those who bear witness."
55. Behold! God said: "O Jesus! I will take thee and raise thee to Myself and clear thee (of the falsehoods) of those who blaspheme; I will make those who follow thee superior to those who reject faith, to the Day of Resurrection: Then shall ye all return unto me, and I will judge between you of the matters wherein ye dispute.

For a Christian, --- does this not outline the Straight Path. --- Or, are you suggesting that I am wrong to follow Jesus?
--- And as a follower of Jesus like the Apostles were (v 52) then I guess I would be a Muslim (surrendered one), --- would I not?

--- Also in v 55 some translations read this way:
Sher Ali: Remember the time when Allah said' `O Jesus, I will cause thee to die a natural death and will raise thee to Myself,
Khalifa: Thus, GOD said, "O Jesus, I am terminating your life, raising you to Me,
Rodwell: Remember when God said, "O Jesus! verily I will cause thee to die, and will take thee up to myself.
--- I understand that the word in Arabic refers to physical death, --- so this also is in harmony with the words of Jesus that He would die, and rise again.


Placid

[placid]

Hi Abu,

Maulana Muhammad Ali Commentary on ‘the Injil’ Surah 3:3:
Quote: The word Injil does not signify, as supposed by Muir and others, the New Testament. According to the Holy Quran no Prophet, to whom any book was revealed, appeared after Jesus Christ, who, being the last of the Israelite Prophets, was granted a revelation called the Injil, which stands for the Evangel, or the Gospel and signifies ‘good tidings.’ The reason why Jesus’ revelation was called the Gospel or ‘good tidings’ is that it gave the glad news of the advent of the Last of the Prophets, which is variously described in Jesus’ metaphorical language as the advent of the Kingdom of God (Mark 1:15), the coming of the Lord (Matthew 21:40), the appearance of the Comforter (John 14:16), or the Spirit of Truth John 14:17. --- End of quote.

Certainly the Gospel or Injil could not refer to the New Testament, although there are quotes by Jesus through to the Book of Revelation.
Maulana seems to call it ‘a revelation’ to Jesus, --- which, he says, stands for the Evangel, or the Gospel and signifies ‘good tidings.’
--- And the ‘good tidings’ were that it gave the glad news of the advent of the Last of the Prophets, --- the advent of the Kingdom of God, --- the coming of the Lord, ---the appearance of the Comforter, the Holy Spirit of Truth.

Since the ‘message’ of the revelation was the ‘good news’ of these events that Maulana listed, --- it also included the coming of the promised Messiah, which Jesus was called also, in the Quran, --- and the ‘good news’ of salvation.

--- Do you know of anything else, --- perhaps a new teaching, that was included in the revealed Surahs in the Quran, that was not included in the Gospels?

[placid]

Hi Haydar,

I had said: --- While Christians believe the whole Bible they are not interested in the original Semetic languages that were perhaps translated into Hebrew,


Quote: Christian scholars are not interested in Hebrew? Where on earth did you get that idea from? Go to any Bible seminary, and they teach Hebrew and well as Koine Greek (the language the New Testament was written in).

Also, if you want to leave the OT completely in the hands of Jewish scholars when someone asks questions about it, then you should be consistent and not try to use the OT to make theological points yourself. So that means not trying to find prophesies of Jesus in the OT, for example in Isaiah 53, since Jewish scholars do not accept the Christian interpretation of those texts. Are you willing to do that?

Response: --- You misunderstood what I said. --- All of the work has been done to render all of the Bible in English so we don’t have to re-examine the ancient Scriptures and cultures, times and circumstances. --- That work has already been done by others, so we simply benefit from it..

--- I accept the OT as it is, --- as much as I can, by understanding, and the rest by Faith. --- As it was God’s word which was given to and through many authors over a period of about 1400 years,  
--- The Prophecies of Jesus in Isaiah are understood and preached by Messianic Jews as well, because they have accepted the truth of their promised Messiah being fulfilled in Jesus.

The NT is easy to understand, but even there, I don’t get concerned over the few discrepancies. It is the Message of both the OT and NT that is important.

--- If I was to get hung up on some point of controversy in the OT I could perhaps get out my Bible Dictionary which gives all kinds of ancient languages.
I could start with Hyroglifics  and the writings left behind carved in stone by the Hebrews in their wilderness wanderings, --- and go on to the Cuneiform character Alphabet from the Mesopotamian area, and follow through the clay tablets and come to the Akkadian form of the cuniform script, which was the ‘Lingua Franca’ of that day. The language of trade and diplomacy between Syria and Egypt.
A more important discovery was made at Ras Shamra, in the NW of Syria of the Ugaritic literature. This was written in a Canaanite dialect closely related to Proto Hebrew. --- and on --- and on ---

--- It is very simple, If you believe in God and His word, --- you trust Him, and His guidance.
And we need to thank God for all the benefits we have from the hard work of others.  

[Haydar Husayn]

placid, do you view the King James Bible translation to be as good as any other modern translation?

[Abu Hadi]

placid, on 22 July 2012 - 03:41 PM, said:

The NT is easy to understand, but even there, I don’t get concerned over the few discrepancies. It is the Message of both the OT and NT that is important.

If it is the word of Almighty God, then it shouldn't have any 'discrepencies'. Do you believe that God makes mistakes ?
Also, the discrepancies are more than a few.

[Alizee Sukeyna]

^^ Exactly. The discrepancies are plentiful and that is what concerns me.

[Son of Placid]

Ah yes, the Answering-Christianity.com bandwagon. You'll never drown if you stay that shallow.

Matthew and Luke go for a walk. A really big bird flys by at incredible speed. They go home, write about it. Matthew says "This gynormous bird swooped down, almost hit me on my right side, scared us both!" Luke writes, "This really cool strigiform swooped in close enough I could see it, went right by my left side, what an impressive wing span, Matt jumped."

Christians read it and know it was a bird. Muslims see one write gynormous, and the other write strigiform and say AHA! Right side, left side, WHAT A DISCREPANCY! Matthew said they were both scared, Luke said he was impressed, Matt was scared. (maybe similar facial expressions?)
Matt said right side, Luke said left, therefore we can't believe it was a bird because they don't agree. Nowhere is it mentioned the owl flew between them, and we'd rather not take that into consideration because we prefer the descrepancy.

{{{"Jesus said"}}}, or was it the Spirit in Him? If the disciples didn't understand, or only understood one meaning their response would be different. They wrote what they saw. There was a dozen of them and in my experience on various boards and committees, a dozen people never agree on everything.

I've had Muslims tell me there are seven meanings to every ayat, but I have yet to have a Muslim explain more than one meaning. I've had a Muslim tell me there are many meanings to the one Arabic word mentioned in the Quran. Don't you find that a tad confusing?

The Quran is allowed 7 meanings nobody understands, yet they insist that the OT/NT have one meaning for everything or it's a descrepancy.
Are the 7 reports of Sodom and Gomorrah in the Quran the 7 meanings of the same story?

Do tell?

[iere]

Isaiah 28: 9-10
⁹ Whom shall he teach knowledge? and whom shall he make to understand doctrine? them that are weaned from the milk, and drawn from the breasts.

¹⁰ For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little:

[Abu Hadi]

Son of Placid, on 23 July 2012 - 02:24 AM, said:

Ah yes, the Answering-Christianity.com bandwagon. You'll never drown if you stay that shallow.

Matthew and Luke go for a walk. A really big bird flys by at incredible speed. They go home, write about it. Matthew says "This gynormous bird swooped down, almost hit me on my right side, scared us both!" Luke writes, "This really cool strigiform swooped in close enough I could see it, went right by my left side, what an impressive wing span, Matt jumped."

Christians read it and know it was a bird. Muslims see one write gynormous, and the other write strigiform and say AHA! Right side, left side, WHAT A DISCREPANCY! Matthew said they were both scared, Luke said he was impressed, Matt was scared. (maybe similar facial expressions?)
Matt said right side, Luke said left, therefore we can't believe it was a bird because they don't agree. Nowhere is it mentioned the owl flew between them, and we'd rather not take that into consideration because we prefer the descrepancy.

To illustrate my point, I will give an actual example from the New Testament. This example involves concrete facts which are not open to interpretation. We all know what geneology is. It is a discreet fact. It is simply as list of your father, then your father's father, then your father's, father's, father. etc. Everyone on earth understands this in the same way. So two geneologies of Jesus are given in the Bible, one in Luke 3:21 - 31 and one in Matthew 1:6-17. According to Luke, this is the geneology of Jesus

The Genealogy From Luke


1. David
2. Nathan
3. Mattatha
4. Menan
5. Melea
6. Eliakim
7. Jonan
8. Joseph
9. Juda
10. Simeon
11. Levi
12. Matthat
13. Jorim
14. Eliezer
15. Jose
16. Er
17. Elmodam
18. Cosam
19. Addi
20. Melchi
21. Neri
22. Salathiel
23. Zorobabel
24. Rhesa
25. Joanna
26. Juda
27. Joseph
29. Semei
30. Mattathias
31. Maath
32. Nagge
33. Esli
34. Naum
35. Amos
36. Mattathias
37. Joseph
38. Janna
39. Melchi
40. Levi
41. Matthat
42. Heli
43. Joseph
44. Jesus

And According to Matthew, this is the geneology of Jesus

1. David
2. Solomon
3. Rehoboam
4. Abia
5. Asa
6. Josaphat
7. Joram
8. Ozias
9. Joatham
10. Achaz
11. Ezekias
12. Manasses
13. Amon
14. Josias
15. Jechonias
16. Salathiel
17. Zorobabel
18. Abiud
19. Eliakim
20. Azor
21. Sadoc
22. Achim
23. Eliud
24. Eleazar
25. Matthan
26. Jacob
27. Joseph
28. Jesus

As you can see, there is not only a difference in the Names, but also in the amount of generations between David(a.s) and Jesus(a.s).
I have heard many explainations for this amoung Christians, even some say that they are tracing his lineage in different ways, one for Jews and one for Gentiles. Some Christians also say that this is irrelevant, because his father was God(astaghfirAllah). Either way, a person who examines the issue with a fair and clear mind can only come to a few conclusions when examining this fact in light of the claim by Christians that every word in the Bible is divinely inspired (i.e. God(s.w.a) wrote it thru using the pens of men)

1) Matthew's geneology was correct and inspired but Luke's wasn't
2) Luke's geneology was correct and inspired but Matthew's wasn't
3) Neither one was correct or inspired.
4) God(s.w.a) made a mistake(astaghfirAllah) and 'inspired' one author with the wrong geneology.

Which option would you like to take 1,2,3, or 4 ?
(BTW. if you are a Muslim or Christian, the correct option is 3. If a man was born of a virgin, how can he have a geneology thru his father ? )

The next example is from Genesis 1, the Old Testement. I will also compare this with what the Holy Quran says regarding creation of the heavens and the Earth. The bible passage is taken from New American Standard Version via Biblegateway.com

In Genesis 1:1-24, is the famous account of the creation of light and darkness, night and day, the heavens and the earth, animals and man. According to this account, creation (from the beginning until human beings) took place is six days. Now, in one sense this paradigm of six days is also stated in the Quran. In many places in the Quran, it states 'Allah created the heaven and the earth in six days'. So if you take the translation at face value, it would seem that the Quran and the Bible agree on this, but they don't. As always, as they say, the devil is in the details.

When the Quran mentions the term 'ayam' which roughly translates to 'days' in English, it is talking about six periods of time, not six 24 hours days. This concept is made very clear by other ayats in the Quran which speak of 'ayam' as a period of time, such as

وَيَسْتَعْجِلُونَكَ بِالْعَذَابِ وَلَن يُخْلِفَ اللَّهُ وَعْدَهُ وَإِنَّ يَوْمًا عِندَ رَبِّكَ كَأَلْفِ سَنَةٍ مِّمَّا تَعُدُّونَ (22:47)

And [so, O Muhammad,] they challenge thee to hasten the coming upon them of [God’s] chastisement: but God never fails to fulfill His promise - and, behold, in thy Sustainer’s sight a day is like a thousand years of your reckoning

يُدَبِّرُ الْأَمْرَ مِنَ السَّمَاء إِلَى الْأَرْضِ ثُمَّ يَعْرُجُ إِلَيْهِ فِي يَوْمٍ كَانَ مِقْدَارُهُ أَلْفَ سَنَةٍ مِّمَّا تَعُدُّونَ (32:5)
32:5 (Asad) He governs all that exists, from the celestial space to the earth; and in the end all shall ascend unto Him [for judgment] on a day the length whereof will be [like] a thousand years of your reckoning.


تَعْرُجُ الْمَلَائِكَةُ وَالرُّوحُ إِلَيْهِ فِي يَوْمٍ كَانَ مِقْدَارُهُ خَمْسِينَ أَلْفَ سَنَةٍ (70:4)

all the angels and all the inspiration [ever granted to man] ascend unto Him [daily,] in a day the length whereof is [like] fifty thousand years…

Whereas in Genesis 1, the author is clearly speaking about a 24 hour day. This is reinforced over and over again by the refrain, 'and there was morning, and there was evening, a () day'. Morning and Evening are concepts totally confined to the 24 hour day and due to the rotation of the earth in a definite period of time. Although the word 'day' in English can also mean a period of time, rather than a 24 hour day , for example the phrase 'Days of Yore', Genesis 1 is very clear that the author is speaking in terms of a 24 hour day with a morning and evening and not a period of time.

If you want to think that everything in the Universe, from the atom up till human beings, was created in 6 24 hour days(as some Christians still claim), then you would need to throw out the entire contents of many proven scientific concepts such as geological and astronomical concepts that are universally accepted by scientists and laypeople due to the preponderence of evidence.

Son of Placid, on 23 July 2012 - 02:24 AM, said:

{{{"Jesus said"}}}, or was it the Spirit in Him? If the disciples didn't understand, or only understood one meaning their response would be different. They wrote what they saw. There was a dozen of them and in my experience on various boards and committees, a dozen people never agree on everything.

I've had Muslims tell me there are seven meanings to every ayat, but I have yet to have a Muslim explain more than one meaning. I've had a Muslim tell me there are many meanings to the one Arabic word mentioned in the Quran. Don't you find that a tad confusing?

Levels of meaning and contradiction are two completely seperate things. Yes, there are many things in the Quran which are difficult to understand and explain. That doesn't mean they are contradictions, they are just beyond the level of the understanding of most people.
For example the phrase in the Quran ' Rabil Al Amin'. It means 'Lord of All the Worlds'. We don't know what 'All the worlds' are, but it doesn't mean that they don't exist. It is a deficiency in our minds and in our abilities that limits our ability to understand phrases such as this, it is not a limitation the that phrase itself which is stopping us.

Son of Placid, on 23 July 2012 - 02:24 AM, said:

The Quran is allowed 7 meanings nobody understands, yet they insist that the OT/NT have one meaning for everything or it's a descrepancy.
Are the 7 reports of Sodom and Gomorrah in the Quran the 7 meanings of the same story?

Do tell?

Sodom and Gommorah are mentioned in 26 places in the Quran and I challenge you to find a contradiction, such as the ones I mentioned above, in any of them (or any other contradiction). If you cannot find one, then you must admit that it is from God(s.w.a), completely and totally.

Edited by Abu Hadi, 24 July 2012 - 06:53 AM.

[UmmAhmad]

Son of Placid, on 23 July 2012 - 02:24 AM, said:

Ah yes, the Answering-Christianity.com bandwagon. You'll never drown if you stay that shallow.

Matthew and Luke go for a walk. A really big bird flys by at incredible speed. They go home, write about it. Matthew says "This gynormous bird swooped down, almost hit me on my right side, scared us both!" Luke writes, "This really cool strigiform swooped in close enough I could see it, went right by my left side, what an impressive wing span, Matt jumped."

Christians read it and know it was a bird. Muslims see one write gynormous, and the other write strigiform and say AHA! Right side, left side, WHAT A DISCREPANCY! Matthew said they were both scared, Luke said he was impressed, Matt was scared. (maybe similar facial expressions?)
Matt said right side, Luke said left, therefore we can't believe it was a bird because they don't agree. Nowhere is it mentioned the owl flew between them, and we'd rather not take that into consideration because we prefer the descrepancy.

{{{"Jesus said"}}}, or was it the Spirit in Him? If the disciples didn't understand, or only understood one meaning their response would be different. They wrote what they saw. There was a dozen of them and in my experience on various boards and committees, a dozen people never agree on everything.

I've had Muslims tell me there are seven meanings to every ayat, but I have yet to have a Muslim explain more than one meaning. I've had a Muslim tell me there are many meanings to the one Arabic word mentioned in the Quran. Don't you find that a tad confusing?

The Quran is allowed 7 meanings nobody understands, yet they insist that the OT/NT have one meaning for everything or it's a descrepancy.
Are the 7 reports of Sodom and Gomorrah in the Quran the 7 meanings of the same story?

Do tell?

I didn't read all of your reply because you always have long drawn out ones. But these contradictions are far bigger then "a big bird". There are major differences in numbers, who the father was, who was where, who was guided by who, etc. Why don't you just face the truth?

[Son of Placid]

UmmAhmad, on 23 July 2012 - 06:55 PM, said:

I didn't read all of your reply because you always have long drawn out ones. But these contradictions are far bigger then "a big bird". There are major differences in numbers, who the father was, who was where, who was guided by who, etc. Why don't you just face the truth?

That was long and drawn out?
Once every so often somebody finds this list, posts it and expects Christians to answer each one by one while any attempt is rejected anyway.
I made some points, I asked some questions.
If you didn't even read that much why reply? See what I mean about shallow?