133 replies to this topic

[ImAli]

May be a lame reason but I am sure anyone who has a disease passed to them wouldn't agree

[Haydar Husayn]

~Ruqaya, on 03 September 2011 - 09:31 AM, said:

if he's doing nothing wrong them why hide it?  the only way you example would be a fair comparison is if the wife was deliberately hiding her spending and doing something with her money that could threaten the security of the family. Deception is:

• misrepresentation: a misleading falsehood

He isn't doing something wrong, since it is allowed by Allah ÓÈÍÇäå æÊÚÇáì. The reason for not telling the first wife is it doesn't concern her. If she is pious, she won't mind, and if she is a jealous type it is better she doesn't know for the sake of herself and the family. Anyway, just because you don't mention something, it doesn't mean you are hiding it. The would presuppose that she has some fundamental right to be informed of such things, which she doesn't. On the other hand, she does have a right to know if her husband is going to take another permanent wife since that affects her islamic rights. What she doesn't have to right to do is stop him taking that second wife though.

Look, at the end of the day, if you just can't accept this stuff right now, leave it and come back to it some other time. Maybe you will have a different perspective, or have a deeper understanding. To focus too much on this issue might be counterproductive, and some things need time to sink in.

Quote

Regarding ahadith, if neithers evidence for truth is hugely convincing you should treat them with equal skepticism, the cosy one as well as the disturbing one.

What do you regard as evidence for its truth?

[ImAli]

Haider Husayn, on 03 September 2011 - 04:26 PM, said:

He isn't doing something wrong, since it is allowed by Allah سبحانه وتعالى. The reason for not telling the first wife is it doesn't concern her. If she is pious, she won't mind, and if she is a jealous type it is better she doesn't know for the sake of herself and the family. Anyway, just because you don't mention something, it doesn't mean you are hiding it. The would presuppose that she has some fundamental right to be informed of such things, which she doesn't. On the other hand, she does have a right to know if her husband is going to take another permanent wife since that affects her islamic rights. What she doesn't have to right to do is stop him taking that second wife though.

Look, at the end of the day, if you just can't accept this stuff right now, leave it and come back to it some other time. Maybe you will have a different perspective, or have a deeper understanding. To focus too much on this issue might be counterproductive, and some things need time to sink in.


What do you regard as evidence for its truth?

I don't see how some people don't realize where they will be forced to lie. Perhaps if the wife doesn't ask her husband why he didn't come home last night or why he doesn't take her places anymore it won't be a problem. Although most marriages I know if either one of them isn't home in bed every night questions will be asked.

[Haydar Husayn]

ImAli, on 04 September 2011 - 10:19 AM, said:

I don't see how some people don't realize where they will be forced to lie. Perhaps if the wife doesn't ask her husband why he didn't come home last night or why he doesn't take her places anymore it won't be a problem. Although most marriages I know if either one of them isn't home in bed every night questions will be asked.

Obviously if the man is directly asked by his wife, then he could be in a position to lie, which would be a different issue than simply not telling her. However, it is not necessary that this situation should ever arise. There are many people that have affairs that last many years without their wives/husbands becoming suspicious. Do you think they are all spending many nights away from their wives? Of course not. That would automatically attract suspicion. And many more men simply have short-term or one off affairs, which don't last long enough to attract any suspicion.

Also, the muta could last a relativly short duration. It doesn't have to be a long-running thing, that could make the wife suspicious. Remember though that Muslims should avoid suspicion.

Qur'an 49:12 O you who believe! avoid most of suspicion, for surely suspicion in some cases is a sin, and do not spy nor let some of you backbite others. Does one of you like to eat the flesh of his dead brother? But you abhor it; and be careful of (your duty to) Allah, surely Allah is Oft-returning (to mercy), Merciful. [Shakir]

Edited by Haider Husayn, 04 September 2011 - 10:36 AM.

[ImAli]

Haider Husayn, on 04 September 2011 - 10:36 AM, said:

Obviously if the man is directly asked by his wife, then he could be in a position to lie, which would be a different issue than simply not telling her. However, it is not necessary that this situation should ever arise. There are many people that have affairs that last many years without their wives/husbands becoming suspicious. Do you think they are all spending many nights away from their wives? Of course not. That would automatically attract suspicion. And many more men simply have short-term or one off affairs, which don't last long enough to attract any suspicion.

Also, the muta could last a relativly short duration. It doesn't have to be a long-running thing, that could make the wife suspicious. Remember though that Muslims should avoid suspicion.

Qur'an 49:12 O you who believe! avoid most of suspicion, for surely suspicion in some cases is a sin, and do not spy nor let some of you backbite others. Does one of you like to eat the flesh of his dead brother? But you abhor it; and be careful of (your duty to) Allah, surely Allah is Oft-returning (to mercy), Merciful. [Shakir]

Oh dear those affairs you are talking about go undetected because they feed off of lie after lie.

[Ruq]

Haider Husayn, on 04 September 2011 - 10:36 AM, said:

Qur'an 49:12 O you who believe! avoid most of suspicion, for surely suspicion in some cases is a sin, and do not spy nor let some of you backbite others. Does one of you like to eat the flesh of his dead brother? But you abhor it; and be careful of (your duty to) Allah, surely Allah is Oft-returning (to mercy), Merciful.

[Shakir]

Hehehe you little verse twister you. That is very sly i have to say. Even i know that is about accusing someone in public without evidence.

[alimohamad40]

Salaam
The above verse is about judging based on conjecture or suspicion .  Suspicion means when you don't have certainty of an information. This verse applies to a variety of legal aspects including the famous " a suspect is innocent until proven guilty" and the concept of the benefit of the doubt.  So if a husband stayed out late and straight away faced with the accusation of fornication or marriage it does fall under that category because her information is mere conjecture and has no certainty so i do not see how he twisted the verse adding to that there is another verse saying: "most of them follow not but suspicion and suspicion suffices not any thing from the truth"
I am myself against the secret marriages because at the moment our society needs the model so announcement becomes wajib in many cases
If asked by the wife either he will lie and lead a hypocritical life like a thief who is always wary!  Why put iyourself in such situation when your not doing anything wrong? what your doing is not  acrime so why you need to ihde it ??  to keep a shiny false picture of your reputation in the eyes of the corrupts?  your reputation is still shiny in the eyes of muslims because youve done nothing wrong by marrying again so why do you care for the approval of corrupted people and care to render your reputation shiny in their eyes?
Either he will lie or he will say " it's not your buisness it's my privacy" which will keep or raise her suspicion
I realized most people to keep secret not only they abandon the mustahab of announcement and/or the wajib of nahi an almunkar but they end up stepping on the equality as well in this process.
If his second wife is permanent it's part of equality to give her 1 day out of every 4 days (twice a week) which is a phenomena
If he gives her less it's not fair
The secret permanent wife also has the right to be public and not feel the pressure and stress of secrecy
she has the right to walk with her head high because she has done nothing wrong.
Imagine that people think she is un married and propose her or if they see the couple  together they will accuse them of indecency I've seen all this happen with these secret marriages and the couple will be in the weak position because they cant respond and say " WE are proudly married"  but they have to play the rat game of " no we are only having a professional discussion her by yourself in the park" or whatever desperate lie to preserve the secrecy.  
Marriage is a good thing and it's your right so do not feel like a thief about it. I understand that people keep secret afraid of the others but thats cowardly Do not live the lifestyle of the rat in order to satisfy other people and gloss a shiny image in their eyes which is a false image.  Had they known you have another wife they would disrespect and attack you.
You should never seek the approval of such people and if they approve of you know that something is wrong with you.
I have many cases where simply for saying i have another wife i got attacked and disrespected for no reason other than that but I don't go hiding infact i go announcing more and i am happy about the fact  that these corrupted people are angry at me because their approval  means am doing something wrong
this even happened in mosques where people claim to be muslims.


we can not promote a law by practicing it secretly and if your objective is just benefiting from the law  without promoting it then we have to safeguard our self from falling into the traps of the secrecy.

Edited by alimohamad40, 04 September 2011 - 11:47 PM.

[Kamranistan]

Funny thread

[Moslem]

Quite long lol. had me reading for some time.
Endgame: Mutah is sooo not popular in my country, Pakistan. I guess the elder people take joy in making us bleed blue