~Ruqaya, on 02 September 2011 - 03:34 PM, said:
I would like to see what your definition of 'deception' is in that case.
If a man has a right to do something without telling anyone, then why would exercising that right constitute deception? You think of it as deception because you start from the assumption that the man has no such right. On the other hand, if a man has an agreement with his wife that he won't do muta while married to her, and then does, that is deception.
A woman has a right to her money. If she buys something without telling her husband, is that deception?
The amount of effort youve given to these subjects constitutes promotion of a concept you have.
Not at all. Promotion would be opening threads encouraging people to do this stuff, or at least explicitly promoting it in my posts. What I am doing is correcting incorrect information and attitudes being spread about Islam, to the best of my ability.
Your source for your assertion that its halal to force sex on a slave woman is not infallible for instance, so these concepts are up for debate within the larger framework, though you present them as infallible fact.
They are fact for anyone that wants to be consistent in his acceptance of ahadith. Let's say you have two hadith, with the same chain of narrators, and neither contradict the Qur'an. Both have the same number of similar ahadith to support them. Are you telling me it is consistent to accept one because you like it, or reject the other because you don't?
Regarding the specific instance of forcing slaves to have sex, everything is halal until proven haraam. So it's up to you (or someone else) to prove it is haraam, using the Qur'an and ahadith as sources. Personally, I think it is impossible to do this. However, you might have more success by looking at the fatwas of certain modern scholars. I'm not certain on this, but it is highly likely at least some of them will say that it is haraam, even if others (or maybe even the same ones!) will say it is not haraam to do it to your wife.
Seems weird to me, since at least there are well-known ahadith showing disaproval for those that have intercourse with their wives without forplay. Again, would be interesting to know if there are any regarding slaves.
Anyway, doesn't change the other aspects of slavery that you probably disagree with.
You are going further than simply stating that according to such and such ahadith something is halal, you are asserting that non of our opinions or views have any worth because we are not producing a ahadith with it, yet why do i need a hadith to justify every opinion i have in the world?
No, just the opinions that relate to islamic jurisprudence or beliefs. Otherwise, you could post the opinions of scholars. You can't go around saying things are halal or haraam based on your own personal desires. That is stricly forbidden in Islam.
like i said in this thread or another, i know over exercising can be bad for your health because i see the evidence for it, there is no ahadith that tells me that, its my empirical experience in the world that tells me. Why is my assertion that its wrong to force sex on someone and my evidence for that of no value?
Firstly, there are ahadith on moderation in various aspects of life, even worship.
Secondly, it is one thing to give your opinion that overexercising is bad for you health, and quite another to say that doing so is haraam without proof. If you want to say having many muta wives could potentially be damaging to a person's health, or that of his wife, if sufficient precautions aren't taken, and another to say that having several muta wives is haraam (directly contradicting several ahadith), or criticising those who do it (or promote it). If you are so concerned, you can advise to person, but you shouldn't attack them.
What many of you have missed is that the problem isn't so much with your concerns, which are understandable, as it is with your approach, which is unislamic.
And they serve beside Allah what can neither harm them nor profit them, and they say: These are our intercessors with Allah. Say: Do you (presume to) inform Allah of what He knows not in the heavens and the earth? Glory be to Him, and supremely exalted is He above what they set up (with Him). [Qur'an 10:18, Shakir translation]
Now, surely, sincere obedience is due to Allah (alone) and (as for) those who take guardians besides Him, (saying), We do not serve them save that they may make us nearer to Allah, surely Allah will judge between them in that in which they differ; surely Allah does not guide him aright who is a liar, ungrateful. [Qur'an 39:3, Shakir translation]