133 replies to this topic

[DeeeeeBo]

Brothers and sisters, there has been a few heated debates and discussions recently here in regards to mut3a.

While many think i am against it, that indeed i am not, i have done it many times and i am not shy to mention it as it is halal.

What i dont like is when someone mentions that its not as easy as people think, and you should take into consideration the feelings of your wife, or female partner etc etc etc i get slaughtered with hadiths by one specific member, followed by his little gang of Mut3a loving sidekicks...

So the points i make is this.

Mut3a is halal yes, and it is encouraged by the Rasul and the Imams yes, but i believe its encouraged under certain circumstances. But then again say im wrong, and its a free for all, then will and do those who on this site, propose its use in all sorts of situations and encourage in a manner, like there is no tomorrow, then i would like to know if they do so with their own female members of family.

Yes that is an argument used by the sunnis against us, and im using it against you because it has a valid point. Mut3a is for use under certain cirumstances, not to simply go propose it , to go have sex with whoever you want, while technically THAT IS TRUE, then i wonder if those who speak of it sooo highly being the good Muslims they are, do so with their own family members

If so, then please may i approach a family member ?

I think this goes out to you know who

Hassan Haidar

14infallibles

Alimohammad40

Salams and thank you

Sorry if i have offended anyone !

[ImAli]

Might I add thank you Ya Aba 3abdillah for these links
http://ipsnews.net/n...sp?Idnews=49498

http://www.nytimes.c...st/08saudi.html

[DeeeeeBo]

Yeah sis, aids is a big issue that is always overlooked...

Its a massive problem in Pakistan aswell sis, most girls that i have done mut3a with were Pakistani girls.. they were taken advantage of via their husbands, divorced, dissatisfied with their sex lives !

Im not being racist , wallahi im not, im just stating a fact that most girls i have done mut3a with were indeed Pakistani.

These guys on here, dont realise the damage they are doing, especially to their own women, and according to their own women, lol they are 2 minute wonders, so it doesnt bother me. The upset Paki females there are that have been cheated on and abused via their horny mut3a loving husband, the more ill get dancing around me in circles !!!!

Its a shame really...

wallah it is

[macisaac]

I've noticed those who talk most about these things, for and against, tend to often be people who have never and will never engage in any of them. Or if I feel more cheeky, I might say talk all you like about getting 4 wives and a hundred mut`as, chances are you're just marrying your cousin and that's it...

[HellHound]

There needs to be an appropriate distinction made between Shias who shove Mutah down everyone's throats, and those Shias who DEFEND it against people who demonize and frown upon it. Haidar Husayn, 14infallibles, and Alimohammad40 belong in the latter category, and therefore should be exonerated from supposedly trying to enforce Mutah upon the masses (from what I read, that is what you are accusing them off, right Deeeebo?).

Also, questions such as "would you allow your own sisters/relatives to engage in Mutah?" etc. are not befitting of a learned Shia. I advise you refrain from posing such questions, because while Mutah is hala'al, it is not Wajib (again, I'm simply repeating what you have stated Deeeeebo), so it is ultimately up to the individuals if they wish to proceed with it.

EDIT: Before I am attacked from all sides for my views, let it be known that I have tried to contract Mutah twice in my life, albeit unsuccessfully, so please, save all your insults of me being a hypocrite.

Edited by Legio Invicta, 31 August 2011 - 04:25 PM.

[ImAli]

All I wish is that people would take a little bit of responsibility because a one hour mutah with the wrong person can destroy many lives.

[alimohamad40]

Lol that argument is lame

First when you say your sisters then it's not our authority to decide for our sisters so that's irralavent.
We can advice our sisters to choose a man who is submitted to the will of god and that submission will mean two things

That he believes in the law of god and encourages what god encourages
Two that he will not be the wasting type who will sample and throw away as the prophet warned from that.
This advice will guarantee that my sister is in a good hand and hence what type of marriage that will suit their situation will be a decision up to them wether muta or permanent I won't even put my nose in that.
The female is naturally monogamist so she would look for permanency and a religious man understands this and will not throw her away .

We have a group here where one of the girls entered into muta with her current permanent husband and the community made that into a big scandal but her other companions chose your way (engagement without contract) for years and they were the ones condemning the one that contracted muta

One of them admitted that she fornicated during her haraam engagement period yet she was condemning the one that used muta for engagement.

So it seems like it's the signs of the end of the world where having a misses like what you have is hounarsble but having a wife is a shame???

And you keep repeating the word:
"your wife or your partner"

In Islam there is only your wife and your partner or your misses is offensive because it either means a fornication partner or a gay partner
So you tell us what's your partner?
If your engaged why have chosen the haraam way and not engaged using muta like any proper Muslim?
How long has this engagement been and is it really so superficial that it's halal to leave it without any marriage contract?

Edited by alimohamad40, 31 August 2011 - 04:43 PM.

[Ya Aba 3abdillah]

Haidar Husayn, 14infallibles, and Alimohammad40 belong in the latter category

Usually the most ardent cheerleaders of military are the ones that have never experienced war.
And the most passionate about joining the military are those that have been turned down, likely on more than one occasion.

It's their form of vengeance and rebellion
To the extent that it's become a paranoia.

[HellHound]

Usually the most ardent cheerleaders of military are the ones that have never experienced war.
And the most passionate about joining the military are those that have been turned down, likely on more than one occasion.

It's their form of vengeance and rebellion
To the extent that it's become a paranoia.

=_=
Qiyas
War is different from marriage (permanent/temporary)... wait what?

Just so you know, when I was turned down the second time, I didn't exactly give it up either... I'm still searching and hope to find a partner Inshallah, but the intense course-load this semester is drowning that priority to oblivion...

Edited by Legio Invicta, 31 August 2011 - 05:07 PM.

[alimohamad40]

Salaam
Macishac:
It's not relevant how many wives they will end up getting because the objective is not wife collection but it is to support what god supported and revive the disabled institutions which god sanctioned which will help normalize it for others and opens the halal doors consequently closing thousands of haraam doors that we witness around us.
If your aim is increasing your wives then advocating polygyny should be the last thing on your agenda because that repells girls away from you.
This proves that our objective is ideological and not for the sake of benefitting from the law.
Those who only want to benefit from the law will usually use secrecy and will not advocate and then when they die the wives will find out about eachother in the funeral.

Usually the most ardent cheerleaders of military are the ones that have never experienced war.
And the most passionate about joining the military are those that have been turned down, likely on more than one occasion.

It's their form of vengeance and rebellion
To the extent that it's become a paranoia.

This is true assuming the prime motive behind our behavior is the self intrest, ego and vengeance. While there could be percentages of those vices effecting my view but do they constitute the primary motive?
Offcourse some one who has been through a specific avenue will talk more about that avenue because he will gain more knowledge in that avenue which will make it his duty to communicate it.

[HellHound]

All I wish is that people would take a little bit of responsibility because a one hour mutah with the wrong person can destroy many lives.

Who is advocating such a Mutah?

[Ya Aba 3abdillah]

Offcourse some one who has been through a specific avenue will talk more about that avenue because he will gain more knowledge in that avenue which will make it his duty to communicate it.

So is that why you're a mut'a paranoid, an event that occurred in your life that made you obsessive.

ouwwww, do share the juicy details. What happened exactly, I'd really love to know, just to avoid. Come on, spill !

[alimohamad40]

No am proud to be obsessed with implementing the law of god and advocating it and muta is important because it has been disabled

Maybe more than 90% of the alleged muslims who were in my university or school ended up fornicating and this simple thing could have saved them
So how can you pretend that it's not important?
Just look for your own family . It will concern everyone .

[Ya Aba 3abdillah]

No am proud to be obsessed

Come on man, don't ignore the question, fill us in with the goss! What happened that made you obsessed? [Edited]

[jund_el_Mahdi]

Mut3a is halal yes, and it is encouraged by the Rasul and the Imams yes, but i believe its encouraged under certain circumstances. But then again say im wrong, and its a free for all, then will and do those who on this site, propose its use in all sorts of situations and encourage in a manner, like there is no tomorrow, then i would like to know if they do so with their own female members of family.

If there is a choice between chance of committing zina or a halal channel through mut3a, the decision is clear. However, I agree this should be the case really only if 3aqd al qiran (nikah) is not possible at the present time for the individual, which for many would be the case. Allah made mut3a halal from his rahma, because He knew the desires and physical feelings HE created and put in us as humans, and created it as a channel of release from falling into fornication.

[Awaiting_for_the12th]

In Islam there is only your wife and your partner or your misses is offensive because it either means a fornication partner or a gay partner
So you tell us what's your partner?
If your engaged why have chosen the haraam way and not engaged using muta like any proper Muslim?
How long has this engagement been and is it really so superficial that it's halal to leave it without any marriage contract?

i was about to say the same thing. Engagement has no basis in islam, yet he is talking about something that is halal. Straight up hypocrisy. The best way to answer a question like this is If Imam is present right now, whose relationship is valid: the one who has done mutah, or the one who is engaged?
And I am not sure why you are explaining your experience of mutah. You said women were taken advantage of and abused. Yet, you still did mutah with them, so i mean TECHNICALLY you are taking advantage of them too when they are most vulnerable. Its easy to point at their husbands that they took advantage, yet you did the same thing when they were weak. I cant believe with what face you said it how you did mutah with them, its a shame.
So Technically what their husbands did was wrong and left them alone and did mutah, so when they left their wives, I did the same exact thing.

[macisaac]

I don't think the OP is criticizing mut`a (as he said he's practiced it himself a number of times), more the phenomenon of there being a whole lot of talk and not a lot of action.

[La fata illa Ali]

I don't think the OP is criticizing mut`a (as he said he's practiced it himself a number of times), more the phenomenon of there being a whole lot of talk and not a lot of action.

LOL, so lets get organized and get this thing going!

[Haydar Husayn]

And who are the ones starting all these threads again?

[Darth Vader]

I get so ridiculed by some of the best, ordinary Shia friends I've ever met in real life when, at times, I mention that I'm in need of mut'a. It all boils down to tradition. Mut'as don't happen in Pakistan, period. Why? Primarily, because non-prostitute women are simply "not into it", despite being zealous Shia and all. So I have to live with blue balls, take NSAIDs to relieve the pain in my groin and take it like a man. Oh but why am I whining again. This world is full of such [Edited Out]. All these laws and "sustenances" and "eases", weren't really worth wiping the sweat off the head in the first place and then everything has been defiled by Satan and this world has become hell itself these days due to constant persistent foreign indoctrination infiltrating into each and everything in our lives.

[jund_el_Mahdi]

I get so ridiculed by some of the best, ordinary Shia friends I've ever met in real life when, at times, I mention that I'm in need of mut'a. It all boils down to tradition. Mut'as don't happen in Pakistan, period. Why? Primarily, because non-prostitute women are simply "not into it", despite being zealous Shia and all. So I have to live with blue balls, take NSAIDs to relieve the pain in my groin and take it like a man. Oh but why am I whining again. This world is full of such [Edited Out]. All these laws and "sustenances" and "eases", weren't really worth wiping the sweat off the head in the first place and then everything has been defiled by Satan and this world has become hell itself these days due to constant persistent foreign indoctrination infiltrating into each and everything in our lives.

It's too bad a culture shuns a lawful and encouraged act in Islam. Once culture begins to supercede Islam, drop it off at that point immediately.

You need to get married, ASAP brother...

[HellHound]

I get so ridiculed by some of the best, ordinary Shia friends I've ever met in real life when, at times, I mention that I'm in need of mut'a. It all boils down to tradition. Mut'as don't happen in Pakistan, period. Why? Primarily, because non-prostitute women are simply "not into it", despite being zealous Shia and all. So I have to live with blue balls, take NSAIDs to relieve the pain in my groin and take it like a man. Oh but why am I whining again. This world is full of such [Edited Out]. All these laws and "sustenances" and "eases", weren't really worth wiping the sweat off the head in the first place and then everything has been defiled by Satan and this world has become hell itself these days due to constant persistent foreign indoctrination infiltrating into each and everything in our lives.

Oh you have no idea how much I share your sentiments brother... Though I have a slight chance at going for it since I'm in the States.

And who are the ones starting all these threads again?

[DeeeeeBo]

Sorry guys im at work at the moment but your goung to have to try a little harder then that !!! I shall answer your posts accordingly later on in about 8 hours when i get home !!!! Sorry guys

P.s alimohammad40 lol ohhh bro you have no idea how much of a fool you just made of tourself by bringing up that arguement about the term "missus" lol im going to crucify you in my reply lolhahaha but its a bit hard off an iphone !

Salams

[14infallibles]

As I have seen yet again, it is clear there are two sides here
one is referring to quran and hadith and is logically consistent
another is referring to cultural morals and is hiding behind personally attacks

and i ask Allah that He guides us all

[DeeeeeBo]

I've noticed those who talk most about these things, for and against, tend to often be people who have never and will never engage in any of them. Or if I feel more cheeky, I might say talk all you like about getting 4 wives and a hundred mut`as, chances are you're just marrying your cousin and that's it...

You couldnt of said it any better, i cant believe i ever argued with you in the past ! Forgive me brother, wallah, you have super a5laq and said my thoughts, but without the anger and vile language. Thank you

There needs to be an appropriate distinction made between Shias who shove Mutah down everyone's throats, and those Shias who DEFEND it against people who demonize and frown upon it. Haidar Husayn, 14infallibles, and Alimohammad40 belong in the latter category, and therefore should be exonerated from supposedly trying to enforce Mutah upon the masses (from what I read, that is what you are accusing them off, right Deeeebo?).

Also, questions such as "would you allow your own sisters/relatives to engage in Mutah?" etc. are not befitting of a learned Shia. I advise you refrain from posing such questions, because while Mutah is hala'al, it is not Wajib (again, I'm simply repeating what you have stated Deeeeebo), so it is ultimately up to the individuals if they wish to proceed with it.

EDIT: Before I am attacked from all sides for my views, let it be known that I have tried to contract Mutah twice in my life, albeit unsuccessfully, so please, save all your insults of me being a hypocrite.

Brother i would never insult you, nor call you a hypocrite. I am not and in no way saying or am against Mut3a, i am a Muslim, and a follower of Ahlul Bayt, i have zero problem with it brother.

The point i was trying to make, is that, when i read on other posts, these certain characters, abusing women on this forum, who are CLEARLY trying to show to them, that they ARE humans and DO have feelings, and that mut3a can, and WILL always have implications and should be used with caution. That is what they are implying, along with a heap of other points. In return what do they get ? pre copy n pasted hadiths, that these guys paste paste paste paste paste, to try humiliate and put them down.

I didnt see any females saying its haram

What i did see is that some like it some dont , and for those who dont, it does not make them a kaafir, or less holy then others. When the Imams talk about indulging in mut3a and how it is good for us, im sure they were referring to doing it so you do not fall into sin, NOT to go ahead and say that those who are not interested in it are useless and not decent Muslims. This is the point i was trying to make, yet instead i found myself having to repeat that , not only do i have no problem with Mut3a, but i found myself arguing and defending myself against alot of poeple who are so judgemental , it makes me sick, let alone the women here on this site, who should be respected and spoken to softly...

PLease brother go read another post, that a sister that i know that is anglican and a revert, and how she was slaughtered to bits, by these guys. Is that fair ? what is she going to think of us ? what if she turns away from Islam because she got the impression that we are nothing but a bunch of horny men, who dont care about bondship, we only care about our own lustlful feelings, and since its OK to do mut3a and have multi million marriages, then in turn it makes them feel worthless and creates distrust against us. This is not the way of the Shia of Ahlul Bayt !!! Its embarrising to be quiet honest.

This is why i mentioned the whole sister scenerio ! If they could encourage it so easily, then would they let me gain acess to their sisters ? its an honest question, and a moment of truth for them. I know the rules of Mut3a and so forth, and they need not respond to me about wisdom and if she agrees and parents consent blaa blaa blaa, i wasnt born in a tent.

It was a simple slap in the face, that even though they are willing to ram it down others throats and make females on this site feel
worthless treating them harshly and calling them "feminists"

do you think if Im Ali was a feminist she would be married ? and openly say they she loves her husband and kids ? if she WAS a feminist to the way they portrayed her, then im sure she wouldnt be here she would be out n about in some gay bar, with the rest of them... She doesnt deserve such disrespect, she is a good Shia sister, and deserves respect as most mothers do !

Sorry im not aiming anything at you brother im just trying to explain myself...

Lol that argument is lame

First when you say your sisters then it's not our authority to decide for our sisters so that's irralavent.
We can advice our sisters to choose a man who is submitted to the will of god and that submission will mean two things

That he believes in the law of god and encourages what god encourages
Two that he will not be the wasting type who will sample and throw away as the prophet warned from that.
This advice will guarantee that my sister is in a good hand and hence what type of marriage that will suit their situation will be a decision up to them wether muta or permanent I won't even put my nose in that.
The female is naturally monogamist so she would look for permanency and a religious man understands this and will not throw her away .

We have a group here where one of the girls entered into muta with her current permanent husband and the community made that into a big scandal but her other companions chose your way (engagement without contract) for years and they were the ones condemning the one that contracted muta

One of them admitted that she fornicated during her haraam engagement period yet she was condemning the one that used muta for engagement.

So it seems like it's the signs of the end of the world where having a misses like what you have is hounarsble but having a wife is a shame???

And you keep repeating the word:
"your wife or your partner"

In Islam there is only your wife and your partner or your misses is offensive because it either means a fornication partner or a gay partner
So you tell us what's your partner?
If your engaged why have chosen the haraam way and not engaged using muta like any proper Muslim?
How long has this engagement been and is it really so superficial that it's halal to leave it without any marriage contract?

Dear brother... LOL is what i would like to say, first and foremost !

You talk about religious men in here:

The female is naturally monogamist so she would look for permanency and a religious man understands this and will not throw her away .


Im confused, wallah, you have openly stated that you have married/contracted plenty of women over the years and divorced them... You also currently have a wife who is trying to find you other wives lol, bro best of luck , but im sure if you cant see by now that the problem is YOU, then there is definately something wrong. I didnt want to be so harsh towards you, but since you like to take words out of context and make me out to be some sort of western new age Islamic Devil, then i shall reply in the same manner that you have treated me !

As for the term Missus, Mrs whatever and however you want to say it or spell it.

Did it even occur to you what the term engagement may mean ? Do you know that in Arabic a "Benet" is a girl who is young, and still a virgin and a "Marra or Marteh" is a lady or a wife (non virgin) ??? This is the case with the word "Khateebteh" which translated = "Engaged" kicks in !!!!

Did it ever occur to you that i may not be with my "Partner/Mrs" at this very moment ? why should i call her my wife, when i have not been married yet ? ohhhh is this the part where you accuse me of doing more haram ? ok then, according to Islamic belief , one must have the consent of the father, to speak to someones daughter true or not ?

I have all consents, both families know, and everything is organised so when i DO see her again, i will GET MARRIED, and then call her MY WIFE.... Whats the point of doing so, when nothing has happened and im in a totally different country ? This is where people normally get to "know each other" and "understand each other" and talk, which eventually leads to marriage, if both are happy and get along. I think you should try this sometime, it may help you out, and lower your divorce rates brother....

So next time, instead of referring to fornication, when i clearly stated i have done mut3a before, why would i fornicate in a haram manner when mut3a is there ? isnt this what we are arguing about and you guys are shoving down everyones throat ? I dont know WHERE you got a "gay partner" from, but you can take that idea back to where ever you got it, and get your 2cent refund, because that was dumb as box of dead hair !!!!

So i think that settles the whole, Mrs Missus whatever terminology. Oh one more thing, i thought this was an english website, do you have any other terms, i may use so i dont offend people and open up a barrage of judgemental accusations in the future ?

Please bro, just stop.

Usually the most ardent cheerleaders of military are the ones that have never experienced war.
And the most passionate about joining the military are those that have been turned down, likely on more than one occasion.

It's their form of vengeance and rebellion
To the extent that it's become a paranoia.

Did i ever tell you i love you ? seriously lol mafish mitlak ya Sheik el Chabab el tayoubeen !!!!!!

If there is a choice between chance of committing zina or a halal channel through mut3a, the decision is clear. However, I agree this should be the case really only if 3aqd al qiran (nikah) is not possible at the present time for the individual, which for many would be the case. Allah made mut3a halal from his rahma, because He knew the desires and physical feelings HE created and put in us as humans, and created it as a channel of release from falling into fornication.

Exactly brother, this is why i think it is there too..

You couldnt of said it any better !

i was about to say the same thing. Engagement has no basis in islam, yet he is talking about something that is halal. Straight up hypocrisy. The best way to answer a question like this is If Imam is present right now, whose relationship is valid: the one who has done mutah, or the one who is engaged?
And I am not sure why you are explaining your experience of mutah. You said women were taken advantage of and abused. Yet, you still did mutah with them, so i mean TECHNICALLY you are taking advantage of them too when they are most vulnerable. Its easy to point at their husbands that they took advantage, yet you did the same thing when they were weak. I cant believe with what face you said it how you did mutah with them, its a shame.
So Technically what their husbands did was wrong and left them alone and did mutah, so when they left their wives, I did the same exact thing.

Hmmm who said i took advantage of them when they were at the weakest ? maybe i did it YEARS after they got a divorce ? do you think i have lower myself to such tactics ? im a good looking bloke lol, i have charm, im funny, im religious and im caring. Besides it wasnt me who approached and opened up the mut3a talk, it was THEM, and i only did it out of precaution of falling into sin, as that is what it is there for.

If you have a problem with what i did and how i did it, then please PM Hassan Haidar, he has about 7 million hadiths on mut3a , im sure he could help me out and explain to you why its halal and encouraged

In regards to the word engagement ? could you guys seriously let go of it ? What i am doing is 110% halal, under the circumstances i am in, and if you want to take transiliteration of arabic words and meanings into consideration, then i believe "Engaged" is the most respectful term one could use. So get off my case !

As I have seen yet again, it is clear there are two sides here
one is referring to quran and hadith and is logically consistent
another is referring to cultural morals and is hiding behind personally attacks

and i ask Allah that He guides us all

Inshallah brother i hope He does guide us all...

But maybe you should read what i have posted, and see that what i am saying has NOTHING to do with cultural morals. Did you see me saying Mut3a is Haram ? find me one quote where i said that ? You need to think before you speak brother !

Now trod along my friend, because your insignificant in your arguments... You must be the short one out of the 3 lol always coming in last, for that cheap shot !!!!

As you said earlier bro, Inshallah i do see you on the day of judgement, for if i have hurt you i shall seek your forgiveness, but do not forget, that you have hurt me also, so you shall be seeking mine.

Get off your high horse and lay down and cool off...

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


In conclusion brothers and sisters i think i got my point across, and made a big enough fuss for everyone to understand, what the sisters have been facing on this site. I believe they should be treated with a little more respect, and those who rely on hadiths for every arguement and try to belittle people, putting words in their mouths, should either have to calm down a little bit, or i call on Moderators to fulfill their job, and Ban them. I cannot believe what has been said, and how people are using hadiths in a sly and hidden agenda to insult people who may have different views to them.

Please brothers, take it easy, esp on the ladies.

They are the flags of Islam, and deserve to be treated better.

Thank you

Salams