384 replies to this topic

[Elvis_King]

Ask Allah ÓÈÍÇäå æÊÚÇáì why he didn't allow it.

LOL
It have to be some logical reasons, thats what Im asking.
I know its not allowed. but why?

Are you serious. Muta is just like nikah except that nikah is for unlimited duration, muta is for a specific time.

You seem either confused, ignorant, or are here to make a fool out of yourself thinking you can redicule an islamic ruling with your silly comments. Please research more on the topic if you are sincere on www.al-islam.org under marriage section.

Dont be rude man & calm down, I have heard it ,
why would I play arround?

Please research more on the topic if you are sincere on www.al-islam.org under marriage section

Will do!

Edited by Elvis_King, 28 August 2011 - 11:44 AM.

[Haydar Husayn]

Why isnt a women allowed to marry moore than 1?
any reason?

Many reasons no doubt, but one of them is that it would have made paternity impossible to establish before the advent of the DNA test. Also, the only real duty a wife has in Islam is to make herself available to her husband at all times. This wouldn't be possible if she had several husbands.

[Elvis_King]

Many reasons no doubt, but one of them is that it would have made paternity impossible to establish before the advent of the DNA test. Also, the only real duty a wife has in Islam is to make herself available to her husband at all times. This wouldn't be possible if she had several husbands.

Thank you very much!
For some people it isnt that easy to answer, instead they get aggressive and rude.
Mebers here should calm down, I see to much rude comments here on SC.

[ImAli]

Of course everyone failed to realize the meaning and nature of the post of DeeeeBo. I think DeeeeeBo was trying to make the point that all women should be valued as much as you value your sisters and mother. Most of you expect everyone to hold your wife, daughter, or sister in such a high regard and respect her but you don't do the same for other women. You all seem to need only a book or hadiths to dictate your lives and don't take into consideration the circumstances and future consequences of each unique situation. Deep down most of you know that although muta and polygamy is halal many things need to be taken into account. Unfortunately the only thing usually taken into account is that it is halal and the prophet or imams did it (forgetting to realize that these people had a wisdom and kindness that you will never possess). That is inconsiderate, destructive, and selfish thinking usually controlled by animal urges and over active hormones and if that is all that was needed to make such a huge decision that will affect so many people there wouldn't be any such thing as religious courts, scholars, sheiks, and ayatollas.

Edited by ImAli, 28 August 2011 - 03:40 PM.

[Haydar Husayn]

Of course everyone failed to realize the meaning and nature of the post of DeeeeBo. I think DeeeeeBo was trying to make the point that all women should be valued as much as you value your sisters and mother. Most of you expect everyone to hold your wife, daughter, or sister in such a high regard and respect her but you don't do the same for other women.

This is a popular assumption, but I don't see much evidence for it. It's rather insulting for you to assume people advocating muta or polygamy don't even bother to make the simple mental exercise of imagining what they would think if their mother, sister, or daughter was in that situation. It's also interesting that you equate advocating the legality of muta and polygamy with lacking in respect for women.

Unfortunately the only thing usually taken into account is that it is halal and the prophet or imams did it (forgetting to realize that these people had a wisdom and kindness that you will never possess).

Can we just put this non-argument to bed? The Prophet and the Imams didn't just do this for themselves, they allowed, and/or advised, their followers to do it. You also don't seem to understand that one of the main functions of the Prophet and the Imams was to give us an example to follow. If what you were saying about their status meaning they could do these things but not everyone else, I'm sure they would have said that somewhere, but they didn't.

[Ruq]

There are 2 issues, neither of which do him any favours. Either he is commiting adultery, or he has been lying and manipulative and put your relationship under grave danger. This is betrayal and extremely selfish, an honourable man would discuss things with you openly before taking any sort of action, even if he didnt care for you, he would still have that courtesy as you are sharing a home and life. Trust is extremely important in order for a relationship to be secure and stable. If trust is to be restored he will have to admit to his betrayal and be repentant, if he isnt prepared to mend it then this is what you will have for the rest of your life unless you take control and get yourself something better. I feel for you and i hope you can find a loving relationship.

but provided your husband has some kind of marriage contract with the other woman (permanent or temporary), you have to understand that he isn't doing anything wrong.

No, it means he isnt commiting adultery, it doesnt mean he isnt doing anything wrong.

[ImAli]

This is a popular assumption, but I don't see much evidence for it. It's rather insulting for you to assume people advocating muta or polygamy don't even bother to make the simple mental exercise of imagining what they would think if their mother, sister, or daughter was in that situation. It's also interesting that you equate advocating the legality of muta and polygamy with lacking in respect for women.
<p> </p>
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Can we just put this non-argument to bed? The Prophet and the Imams didn't just do this for themselves, they allowed, and/or advised, their followers to do it. You also don't seem to understand that one of the main functions of the Prophet and the Imams was to give us an example to follow. If what you were saying about their status meaning they could do these things but not everyone else, I'm sure they would have said that somewhere, but they didn't.

I very seriously doubt the Prophet and Imams meant for it to be abused the way it is today....in some parts it has turned into nothing less than legalized prostitution and it is disgusting. They meant for it to be done with care and unfortunately it usually isn't done with care....but instead it is done in a selfish and thoughtless manner.

[Haydar Husayn]

I very seriously doubt the Prophet and Imams meant for it to be abused the way it is today....in some parts it has turned into nothing less than legalized prostitution and it is disgusting. They meant for it to be done with care and unfortunately it usually isn't done with care....but instead it is done in a selfish and thoughtless manner.

Everyone says it is abused, but they never say how exactly. Reading the hadiths of the Imams on the subject, it seems to me that it would be pretty hard to 'abuse' muta.

[alimohamad40]

Salaam
Op
It's very strange how so many people here are telling you that the real problem is him not informing u!!! If he has married that girl in secret then he is not committing haraam but it's not the best option as Islam generally encourages the announcement of marriage but it's not compulsory on him to announce. In special case where second marriage is needed in the society to combat it's disablement under nahi an almunkar then he must announce otherwise he defeats his inteded purpose. However if he wants the marriage just for his own benefit then he is allowed to refrain from announcing it to protect hiself from the harm that others inflict on him but with this option he is not allowed to lie or to destroy the reputation of the secret wife or be injust to his permanent secret wife due to the secrecy.

Haidar Hussain
Brother the story of the honey conspiracy conflicts with the story of the secret muta of the prophet because they are both attributed to the same event. I have doubts that the prophet keeps secret when in Islam it's mustahab to announce the marriage and as we know the prophets do the mustahab. There might have been special circumstance that might have justified secrecy but in normal circumstances the prophet alway does the optimum mustahab option.

Edited by alimohamad40, 28 August 2011 - 06:17 PM.

[Haydar Husayn]

Haidar Hussain
Brother the story of the honey conspiracy conflicts with the story of the secret muta of the prophet because they are both attributed to the same event. I have doubts that the prophet keeps secret when in Islam it's mustahab to announce the marriage and as we know the prophets do the mustahab. There might have been special circumstance that might have justified secrecy but in normal circumstances the prophet alway does the optimum mustahab option.

Yeah, I was actually wondering about that. So do you consider the honey story to be the more likely? Because I would be leaning more towards the muta. Firstly because we know the muta was part of the Sunnah of the Prophet , but as far as I know we don't have any other reports of him doing it. Secondly, because it probably makes more sense that the Qur'an is speaking about the Prophet is refraining from doing muta, which we know is highly mustahab, to please his wives rather than just drinking some honey. As for the secrecy, is it really that important to announce mutas as opposed to permanent marriage?

Plus, we have the following hadith:

[ 26389 ] 2 ـ قال الصدوق : وقال الصادق ( عليه السلام ) : اني لاكره للرجل أن يموت وقد بقيت عليه خلة من خلال رسول الله ( صلى الله عليه وآله ) لم يأتها ، فقلت : فهل تمتع رسول الله ( صلى الله عليه وآله ) ؟ قال : نعم وقرأ هذه الآية : ( وإذ أسر النبي إلى بعض أزواجه حديثا ـ إلى قوله : ـ ثيبات وأبكارا ) .

2 – As-Saduq said: As-Sadiq عليه السلام said: Verily I dislike that the man should die and there remain upon him a habit from the habits of the Messenger of Allah صلى الله عليه وآله which he has not carried out. So I said: So did the Messenger of Allah صلى الله عليه وآله do mut`a? He said: Yes, and he recited this verse “And when the Prophet disclosed a matter to one of his wives” – until His saying – “previously married and virgins.” (66:3-5)

Yeah, I was actually wondering about that. So do you consider the honey story to be the more likely? Because I would be leaning more towards the muta. Firstly because we know the muta was part of the Sunnah of the Prophet , but as far as I know we don't have any other reports of him doing it. Secondly, because it probably makes more sense that the Qur'an is speaking about the Prophet is refraining from doing muta, which we know is highly mustahab, to please his wives rather than just drinking some honey. As for the secrecy, is it really that important to announce mutas as opposed to permanent marriage?

Plus, we have the following hadith:

[ 26389 ] 2 ـ قال الصدوق : وقال الصادق ( عليه السلام ) : اني لاكره للرجل أن يموت وقد بقيت عليه خلة من خلال رسول الله ( صلى الله عليه وآله ) لم يأتها ، فقلت : فهل تمتع رسول الله ( صلى الله عليه وآله ) ؟ قال : نعم وقرأ هذه الآية : ( وإذ أسر النبي إلى بعض أزواجه حديثا ـ إلى قوله : ـ ثيبات وأبكارا ) .

2 – As-Saduq said: As-Sadiq عليه السلام said: Verily I dislike that the man should die and there remain upon him a habit from the habits of the Messenger of Allah صلى الله عليه وآله which he has not carried out. So I said: So did the Messenger of Allah صلى الله عليه وآله do mut`a? He said: Yes, and he recited this verse “And when the Prophet disclosed a matter to one of his wives” – until His saying – “previously married and virgins.” (66:3-5)

Are there any in Shia books about the honey story?

[ImAli]

Everyone says it is abused, but they never say how exactly. Reading the hadiths of the Imams on the subject, it seems to me that it would be pretty hard to 'abuse' muta.

If you want to know what I am talking about why don't you read the unwanted child from mutah thread. After reading that thread you will know that this is what I am talking about when I say it should be done very carefully but instead it usually is done with careless intention. Of course you will disagree just for the sake of disagreement, but we all know too many idiots are partaking in the practice of mutah without being responsible.

[Haydar Husayn]

If you want to know what I am talking about why don't you read the unwanted child from mutah thread. After reading that thread you will know that this is what I am talking about when I say it should be done very carefully but instead it usually is done with careless intention. Of course you will disagree just for the sake of disagreement, but we all know too many idiots are partaking in the practice of mutah without being responsible.

That's a seperate issue, but I agree with you. Those that have mutas should fulfill their Islamic responsibilities in case a child is born.

[ImAli]

That's a seperate issue, but I agree with you. Those that have mutas should fulfill their Islamic responsibilities in case a child is born.

It is not a separate issue....it is a perfect example of mutah abuse.

[Haydar Husayn]

It is not a separate issue....it is a perfect example of mutah abuse.

So as long as men take their responsibilities towards their children, you are fine with muta then?

[ImAli]

So as long as men take their responsibilities towards their children, you are fine with muta then?

I won't do it, but if others want to do it I could care less.....AS LONG AS THEY ARE RESPONSIBLE. I see too many stupid kids wanting to do it and they don't think past 5 minutes. Just because something is halal doesn't mean it can't be abused or become a disaster.

[DeeeeeBo]

If people one this site are said to be 'pro-muta' based on some pretty mild comments, I can only imagine what you think of the words of the Imams

You know you started off by showing ikhla2 , but you seriously threw it all down the drain, with such a stupid statement/question !!!

You do not know anything about me. You didnt even take into consideration what i said, you merely saw me as in this case "anti-mut3a" , and started to do what most people do this days, start regurgitating hadiths like there is no tomorrow trying to justify your stance, on a topic that is blown out of proportion, and you have mis understood what i said.

Like Im Ali is saying, Mut3a within itself, is halal, there is nothing wrong with it, but do you think it is being practiced these days the way it should ?

another personal question, you do not have to answer me, but if you did, it would help greatly !!!

Are you married bro ? if so, would you do mut3a behind your wifes back ? just answer me that honestly ?

just because its halal, doesnt make it the right thing to do, somethings are halal, but when you abuse it, it becomes haram... As far as im concerned anything that harms the body, soul, and mind in Islam is forbidden. This is why alcohol is haram in the form on drinks, yet halal to clean your hands with and in medication !

Meat might be halal bro, but if you eat too much meat, dont exercise and sit around all day, you will eventually cause some type of harm to yourself, doesnt make meat haram does it ?

the word is moderation and circumstances. Throwing the "its halal" stamp of authority over it, does not give you the chance to do it.

Would you like it if your father was doing Mut3a with a lady ? while still married to your mother ? be honest with me !

Would you like it to happen to your sister ? what if the male she done it with was only using her ? she ends up being heart broken, the guy continues on, taking advantage of good decent Muslima sisters, only causing more damage then he did good, only to justify his act by throwing around hadiths !!!

Im not against mut3a, im not saying its haram, im not saying those who like it are devils, i just dont like how everything is mut3a mut3a mut3a its halal because its mut3a its ok because its mut3a, Imam so and so said its fine so ima do it...

So if according to hadiths bro, its fine so do you mind if i have your sisters email ?

im a really nice guy, i respect women, im actually engaged, but hey thats cool, im allowed to right ? i promise wallahi i wont treat her bad, im a good looking guy, with a bit of charm, i wont let her down wallah i wont

help a brother out, its what the Imams would want !!!!!

If thats ok with you of coarse ? im a Muslim, and according to Islam and Ahlul Bayt, to reject someone who is a decent Muslim, for no reason and not give him the chance, is considered haram, so if you are as true to your words as you claim, can i please approach your sister !

Thanks brother you have been really helpful !

Salams

[Haydar Husayn]

You know you started off by showing ikhla2 , but you seriously threw it all down the drain, with such a stupid statement/question !!!

You do not know anything about me. You didnt even take into consideration what i said, you merely saw me as in this case "anti-mut3a" , and started to do what most people do this days, start regurgitating hadiths like there is no tomorrow trying to justify your stance, on a topic that is blown out of proportion, and you have mis understood what i said.

And what was the substance of your post? That all pro-muta/polygamy people are hypocrites since in your opinion they wouldn't like their female relatives to be involved in such relationships, based on no more evidence than your own baseless assumptions?

Your sentence "gee no wonder why SUnnis are laughing at us, something that Allah Blessed us with, so we can cope in certain circumstances has been BLOWN out of proportion to fulfill mans sexual desires" clearly implies a degree of restrictiveness on the use of muta which is not supported by the narrations on the subject.

Like Im Ali is saying, Mut3a within itself, is halal, there is nothing wrong with it, but do you think it is being practiced these days the way it should ?

No, I don't think it is been practiced the way it should, but probably for different reasons than you.

another personal question, you do not have to answer me, but if you did, it would help greatly !!!

Are you married bro ? if so, would you do mut3a behind your wifes back ? just answer me that honestly ?

Sorry, I don't answer personal questions, since I prefer to debate ideas and not personalities. All I will say is I am not a hypocrite. I wouldn't advocate something as halal whilst making it haraam on myself.

just because its halal, doesnt make it the right thing to do, somethings are halal, but when you abuse it, it becomes haram...

What is abuse of muta according to you?

As far as im concerned anything that harms the body, soul, and mind in Islam is forbidden. This is why alcohol is haram in the form on drinks, yet halal to clean your hands with and in medication !

Under what circumstances would muta be forbidden?

Meat might be halal bro, but if you eat too much meat, dont exercise and sit around all day, you will eventually cause some type of harm to yourself, doesnt make meat haram does it ?

the word is moderation and circumstances. Throwing the "its halal" stamp of authority over it, does not give you the chance to do it.

I don't think I ever said anything about not doing things in moderation. Did I ever write that people should spend their whole time doing muta? I'm not even advocating people do it, even though the hadiths seem pretty clear on that, just defending it's absolute permissibility against efforts to restrict it into virtual non-existence.

Would you like it if your father was doing Mut3a with a lady ? while still married to your mother ? be honest with me !

What does this have to do with anything? Whether I would like it or not would in no way affect it's permissibility or desirability. However, let's say I didn't like it, I would have to force myself to accept it since I am a Muslim. Therefore I should accept what is acceptable to Allah, and not just what non-Muslim society finds acceptable. What kind of Muslim would criticise their father for doing something the Prophet did (muta while married) anyway?

Sometimes I wonder about some of you. You can't even do enough jihad an-nafs to put up with muta or polygamy, but you would no doubt tell people attracted to members of the same sex that they should control their desires. Halal and haraam have nothing to do with human desires.

Would you like it to happen to your sister ? what if the male she done it with was only using her ? she ends up being heart broken, the guy continues on, taking advantage of good decent Muslima sisters, only causing more damage then he did good, only to justify his act by throwing around hadiths !!!

No one is forced to do muta. If they aren't capable of handling the emotions that could arise after a muta expires, then they shouldn't do it. Virgin girls of a young age (who are most likely to be affect in the way you say) should also probably avoid muta.

Im not against mut3a, im not saying its haram, im not saying those who like it are devils, i just dont like how everything is mut3a mut3a mut3a its halal because its mut3a its ok because its mut3a, Imam so and so said its fine so ima do it...

The Imams didn't say it was just 'fine', they said it was highly recommended. Did you actually read those hadiths, or did you just skip over them? If they say it is highly recommended, then who are you to tell people to stay away from it?

So if according to hadiths bro, its fine so do you mind if i have your sisters email ?

im a really nice guy, i respect women, im actually engaged, but hey thats cool, im allowed to right ? i promise wallahi i wont treat her bad, im a good looking guy, with a bit of charm, i wont let her down wallah i wont

help a brother out, its what the Imams would want !!!!!

*Yawn*
Interesting that you are 'engaged', which means nothing in Islam. So you are busy opposing Islamic institutions, while being involved in a non-Islamic one.

If thats ok with you of coarse ? im a Muslim, and according to Islam and Ahlul Bayt, to reject someone who is a decent Muslim, for no reason and not give him the chance, is considered haram, so if you are as true to your words as you claim, can i please approach your sister !

Thanks brother you have been really helpful !

Salams

You seem confused. It is the girl's father or grandfather you need to be approaching for permission, not the brother. You can of course approach whoever you want, but I think you need to remind yourself that they don't need to accept. Also, if your attitude to muta and polygamy is any indication, you probably aren't on the level to assume you can't be rejected by the father (or indeed the girl) on Islamic grounds.

[jund_el_Mahdi]

A lot of people here seem to always overlook something when speaking about the "abuse of mut3a"...the woman also consents to it out of her own choice, no one is ever forced into it.

[alimohamad40]

Deebo
You say (my misses ) and so and so. If u believe in having a misses and a non-superficial engagement relation without any marriage contract then how do u have the face to stick ur nose in religion issues when your so distant from it?
Your post had no logical analysis nither textual references from the religion that u claim to follow. Logic for usool and text for foroo. Remember that in any country where people have legal dispute they refer back to the constitution and it's statutes and for a Muslim it's the aql and naql (mind reasoning and textual reference)

[MissShiaMuslim]

Deebo
You say (my misses ) and so and so. If u believe in having a misses and a non-superficial engagement relation without any marriage contract then how do u have the face to stick ur nose in religion issues when your so distant from it?
Your post had no logical analysis nither textual references from the religion that u claim to follow. Logic for usool and text for foroo. Remember that in any country where people have legal dispute they refer back to the constitution and it's statutes and for a Muslim it's the aql and naql (mind reasoning and textual reference)

sorry, im not involved in this conversation at all but let me say something, who are you to judge Deeebo on his iman? you dont know him, i do. Mashallah this guy has iman, but is also inbetween with the way he thinks, hes half morals and half religion. he will give advice on the religious aspect but also will empathise with her and help her that way. the way advice should be. he doesnt step out of the religious value whilst giving advice.
does every single post he submits have to have quotes from the quran or hadiths etc to back up advice? he isnt going agaisnt any islamic principle to place any sort of references to back himself up. he is simply stating an opinion and to me, that doesnt require any sort of reference.

what an insult to say he is far from religion. astaghfirAllah. honestly the people on this forum are nothing but fake morons that sticky beak in peoples posts. this is about the SISTER wanting ADVICE. not having one up on each other in religion.

either stick to the subject or simply just dont post. its a serious issue were a sister really needs serious answers. inshaAllah you all realise what your doing and actually help this poor sister.

As Salaam Alaikum to all that read this post. I 'm the first wife and my husband has choses a co wife. I m having some problems with this. He has not married her yet, but they are spending the night together in a hotel alone. This is very hurtful to me because I ask him to wait until they are married before I have to start to share our time. Keep in mind I only found out about her a week ago by drving by a hotel and seen his car their. I was so hurt I havent been able to eat or sleep since this took place. some one plese help me understand. she has been spending time with my husband on some level since May 2011 and i just found out about her 8/23/11. in the above way. I dont think im being vauled and since Ive only been in the deen 3 years i have no clue if this is right please help someone with Quran or sunah referances to give be help

Salam sis.

Sorry i do not have much advice to give you, all i say is please talk to your husband, what he did was not right. I do not have any references to give you, but i do have my self respect and dignity which i go by. He should NEVER do what he did. Please talk to him and try to resolve the issue where you will feel comfortable about the situation and help you live a happy life and marriage.

i wish you all the best and inshaAllah Allah blesses you with a happy future.

I hope you find the right thing to you, both islamically and for yourself.

[Haydar Husayn]

Mashallah this guy has iman, but is also inbetween with the way he thinks, hes half morals and half religion.

Half morals and half religion? Says it all really.

[MissShiaMuslim]

Half morals and half religion? Says it all really.

once again over analysing everything that we write. dont you get what I said? he speaks from his HEART on what this sister should do. he DOESNT go out of the islamic VALUES to write a reference with what advice he gives her from his HEART.

get it now? or would you like me to open my oxford dictionary and rewrite it so im intellectually up to your standard? sir?

i totally forgot that a lot of people on this forum dont have hearts and simply cant write advice based upon it.

Edited by MissShiaMuslim, 29 August 2011 - 06:28 AM.

[Haydar Husayn]

once again over analysing everything that we write. dont you get what I said? he speaks from his HEART on what this sister should do. he DOESNT go out of the islamic VALUES to write a reference with what advice he gives her from his HEART.

get it now? or would you like me to open my oxford dictionary and rewrite it so im intellectually up to your standard? sir?

i totally forgot that a lot of people on this forum dont have hearts and simply cant write advice based upon it.

And when his 'heart' contradicts the religion, then what? Morality is not independent of the religion, it flows from it. To speak of them as if they are independent makes no sense, unless you are talking about a different morality than an Islamic one (and let's face it, most of you are).

[MissShiaMuslim]

And when his 'heart' contradicts the religion, then what? Morality is not independent of the religion, it flows from it. To speak of them as if they are independent makes no sense, unless you are talking about a different morality than an Islamic one (and let's face it, most of you are).

i never said he places his morals over the religion. if the heart contradicts religion, obviously religion comes first... what now your putting words in my mouth? tsk honestly is this whole argument even getting you anywhere?

[Haydar Husayn]

i never said he places his morals over the religion. if the heart contradicts religion, obviously religion comes first... what now your putting words in my mouth?

Well, the religion is contradicting a whole lot of hearts here, but I don't see you saying much to them about putting the religion first.

But going back to this distinction you made, where is the sense in it? If the religion contradicts morality/'the heart', then you choose the religion. And if they are in agreement, then it is still the religion. Therefore there is no distinction to be made for a Muslim.

tsk honestly is this whole argument even getting you anywhere?

It's virtually impossible to convince anyone of anything on a public forum, but it's possible that one or two people reading might rethink their views, Inshallah.