129 replies to this topic

[s.fatima]

I’m nobody to judge. However, I will say that it is one’s responsibility to absorb all laws regarding the agreement. Someone who fails to understand will have to face consequences whether his intentions were pure or not.

It’s hard to determine in which areas or class Mutah is frequent. For accurate results, a statistical analysis would be required.

[MWO]

lol if all the laws aren't abided by, its not binding... simple as that

whether they call what they do legal under the umbrella of mutah is irrelevent because in Gods eyes, it is a sin what they are doing.

anyway back to the topic... i ask that same question i asked at the start... who cares? what does it matter how often or not it happens at a certain location? lol

Edited by MWO, 18 August 2011 - 04:14 AM.

[Anti-Logic]

Well the main points emerging form the discussions are  as follows:

1) that its done seldomly, yet we have more rumour on it rather than factual accounts in our community / surroundings / friends / associates.
2) the practice is uncommon throughout Shia populations - barring the Northern Pakistan faction.
3) Statistical analysis is needed, probably random discreet interviews, if we want to guage the extent of actual practice (and not intentions of people - which would be 90% )
4) it is not a distinctly identifiable pattern such as polygamy in arabs

Plus, what i noticed was that people are more concerned and aware of the terms and conditions of Mutah than Nikah

@ S. Fatima: All your points taken - Valid and rational. Behaviour, intentions and knowledge is most important which are the actual enables of the action.

[s.fatima]

Plus, what i noticed was that people are more concerned and aware of the terms and conditions of Mutah than Nikah

Anti-Logic: I would say the above statement is the most true. If you look back, I've projected similar views.

Side debate: Alright guys! I rest my case, lol!

[MWO]

i dont think its always the case..

the lebonese youth community in sydney are very open about this topic.. practice it commonly.. and infact boast about it

its almost become a competition for them who can do it the most etc..

they are all self titled "mutah kings" in fact lol

[Anti-Logic]

my my. So we have a pattern emerging. Northern Pakistan, Lebanese community in Sydney...where else do we have Mutah kings..(and queens too? )

Jokes apart - i think if one has the inclination for such a relationship and wants to be it legal and compliant with Islam - it is the most suited option. Mutual and respectful.

Edited by Anti-Logic, 18 August 2011 - 08:53 PM.

[s.fatima]

"Mutah Kings" ...? You have got to be kidding me! Interesting stuff.

[alimohamad40]

Salaam
where we are there is a great war against temporary marriage but the common thing between people is fornication.  I hardly know any one of the University from the so called Muslim community who did not enter into illegitimate relationships...  

One girl who wears hijab and allegedly from the shia community  Admits fornication with Mr A but when Mr A  proposed temporary marriage to her she got angry and wanted to break up with him and forced him to continue the fornication path.

my own experience when i was 19 (10 years ago)  when I told the girl that liked me about temporary marriage she was very angry and broke up with me because of that but she was whiling to do haraam and alhamdulillah i rejected and she probably went and took another boyfriend ( she also used to wear hijab)

people are hypocritical about it .

one brother mentioned that one way of misusing mutah is when they marry virgin girls without the permission of the parents.

the permission of the father is required if the girl is Not Rashida  ( can not manage her own money)

if the girl is rashida then the permission is only a precaution (Ehtyaat)

secondly the permission of the parents who reject mut3a all together is not required because they are committing Uthool and their authority is Null in that case
Uthool is to prevent the girl from marrying the suitable.
Rashida is the girl that can manage her own money accounts .

So yes people are abusing muta and the abuse of it is the lack of use of it .  obviously god sanctioned the law for a reason or not???  did he put the law to be applied or to stay as ink on paper ?
Did god sanction mut3a for no reason?

Then why the taboo and the Hush hush as you say?  why the shame from the hallal but no shame from the haraam?

I had three different girls in the past inviting me to haraam like lets go for holiday and spend the time in hotel lets hold hands and kiss , lets talk and talk and spend time alone  and each one of them i proposed marriage  and that was the break up between us because they got offended...

its funny how the haraam is not offensive for them but the hallal is offensive !!!!

alhamdulillah I was protected from falling into fornication or what they were asking for even though i spent many years alone but that loneliness is much nicer than what they are asking for...

as one of the brothers said previously that most of these people are like the emu that puts its head in the sand while Kumar is fooling around with their daughters. ( No my daughter doesn't do like that)

Edited by alimohamad40, 19 August 2011 - 06:12 AM.

[hossein]

No, but having girlfriends is!

[Anti-Logic]

Quite a discovery! very well said Ali. The abuse is from not using the option. Still dont understand why they broke off, when you suggested Mutah. Maybe because they didnt want to be called wives at that time, and wanted an open door relation.

May I ask where you from and where did these instances happen (and which country's native were these ladies) - just for knowledge.

[ßÑíã]

Regarding Mut'ah, judging from my experiences and of course the mind scheme of mostly females in the shia community, i find it really pathetic how it is looked down upon and attacked in defence of their "dignity", my question to those with this very mind scheme is: If the purest of all women Fatimah Al Zahra did in no way think of Mut'ah as "degrading", or "desperate" or even "disgusting", then who are these low life women to speak about it in such regards?, and when someone stands up in haq and is against what they are saying, their reply is their lack of "akhlaq" in some cases, oh excuse me, didn't you just insult one of the mercies that Allah S.W.T has bestowed upon mankind, and didn't you just insult the sunnah of Rasool Allah ? therefore who are you to speak of akhlaq.

The females from this sect need to stand up and explain to us why this occurs so much in the school of the Ahlul-Bayt , because seriously, for the shia men in the western countries who are trying to remain within the boundaries of halal, this is really unbearable to witness .

[s.fatima]

There may be a well aware man who may never consider Mutah. However, that has nothing to do with his knowledge and everything to do with his background. Society has a vital contribution in shaping one's standpoint. The truth of the matter is that culture tends to be more dominant than religion. Wrong, but true.

[ßÑíã]

Well said, its not a sexist thing as even some guys don't agree with it, but i hear negative comments mostly from females. Don't get me wrong or anything, whether an individual would or wouldn't do Mut'ah is completely up to them, but the criticism and the negative comments need to stop. In all honesty, only the true believers would not let their culture dominate their religion.

Edited by ßÑíã, 20 August 2011 - 12:51 AM.

[s.fatima]

Would you say, negative comments come more from the elder generation? I've felt that the youth is quite accepting. =)

[ßÑíã]

You'll be surprised, some youths call it bull****, and what amazes me is they have no logical evidance or argument to back them up. Elder generations also degrade it, surprisingly, after all the knowledge and maturity they possess...

[s.fatima]

Of course, they wouldn't have logical evidence. C'mon, they're up against Allah! =)

[ßÑíã]

s.fatima, on 20 August 2011 - 01:06 AM, said:

Of course, they wouldn't have logical evidence. C'mon, they're up against Allah! =)

I'm impressed to see a female hold this view

[s.fatima]

My oh my, shall I be flattered or offended? =) Being a feminist, I take pride in defending my kind. Man puts together a society, woman molds herself accordingly. Basically, she is a mere reflection of his ideology. In simple words, she was taught to say "no" to Mutah. So there's no need to get angry/judgmental after facing rejection 3 or 4 times. After all, her decision was influenced by you. Again, I am speaking for the ladies who will not consider Mutah.

[alimohamad40]

Salaam

Anti-Logic, on 19 August 2011 - 08:06 PM, said:

Quite a discovery! very well said Ali. The abuse is from not using the option. Still dont understand why they broke off, when you suggested Mutah. Maybe because they didnt want to be called wives at that time, and wanted an open door relation.

May I ask where you from and where did these instances happen (and which country's native were these ladies) - just for knowledge.

with my case there were a few different stories , one of them was supposedly from the shia community with hijab on her head.  this was in university and the relation developed so i proposed temporary marriage in order to keep things hallal....   she was very offended and so was her mother...   but she wanted to continue the relation and i also didn't want to destroy the relation and tried to work around her ignorance so we debated and at the end I persuaded her to contract mut3a simply because I didn't use the word Mu3a but i used the word " Temporary marriage contract". apparently she had a phobia against the word mut3a and the funny thing is she admitted that she had a boyfriend before but she was a virgin...  she accepted and for a short time we were married but her mother and others influenced her in a negative way like " he tricked you  and maybe he wants to get into your pants or things like that" because to these people mut3a and marriage always means sex and they dont understand that the concept of marriage is alot more general.  For me it was actually to avoid haraam because she used to pressure me to be affectionate to her or hold hands or whatever so I was rejecting and I explained to her the reasons and told her that either we have a superficial relation until we get pemenant marriage or we contract temporary marriage.

after that day she broke the relationship and threw away her hijab and started ignoring me.  for many years i didnt know that i could end the relationship without her presence so when i knew i did so but it was few years after and i did it so she wouldn't fall into adultery
she claimed that she was tricked and she misunderstood the marriage contract .... so i said : if you truly within yourself misunderstood then for you marriage never happened and you wouldn't have to worry but if you understood then you have to end it.


The other ones were sunnies so i did not propose mut3a but i proposed marriage ...  but they just wanted to fool around so I told them off and off course they got offended and things ended there.

I live in Australia Melbourne where these things happened and am from iraq background and speak Persian as well as Arabic
the girl was from Lebanese family and the sunnie ones were from bangaladish and singapore

some other ones which were little more successful were afghani born muslim (shia) ,  Italian convert (sunnie) and Australian convert (sunnie) but still they had bad attitude towards polygyny and hence the relations did not last long.  They  claimed that their reasons were to do with sunnie and shia even though they hardly knew anything about the sects. In reality i think their real reasons were because they were jealous to be second wives even though they deny that and they say they support polygyny.   But in most of the cases it was some other person influencing them and saying to them to leave.
the italian and australian converts were second wives but the afgani was the only wife but she still had problems with  the idea of polygyny.

back to mut3a I guess everywhere people have similar attitudes towards this topic.  for example i heard that in iran a huge percentage of the youth fornicate before marriage and when interior minster said " open the doors of mut3a" there was a big backlash and attack on him.

Edited by alimohamad40, 20 August 2011 - 07:44 AM.

[ImAli]

It doesn't always have to be a bad thing or about sex. Because of the distance problem my husband and I did it a few days before we were to be really married so I could stay in his house.....but my mother in law still didn't let us alone together.......LOL

[ßÑíã]

s.fatima, on 20 August 2011 - 02:49 AM, said:

My oh my, shall I be flattered or offended? =) Being a feminist, I take pride in defending my kind. Man puts together a society, woman molds herself accordingly. Basically, she is a mere reflection of his ideology. In simple words, she was taught to say "no" to Mutah. So there's no need to get angry/judgmental after facing rejection 3 or 4 times. After all, her decision was influenced by you. Again, I am speaking for the ladies who will not consider Mutah.

Taught to say no by whom? Influenced by me or satan? When a female doesn't mind fornication, but does mind Mut'ah, the person judging her negatively has every right. Read what Ali said: the minister was attacked after saying: "open the doors of mut'ah", does this not frustrate you as a shia?. I can confidently say that Mut'ah is attacked more than fornication in todays world, people need to open their eyes.

Edited by ßÑíã, 20 August 2011 - 11:45 AM.

[s.fatima]

No! He has no right whatsoever to judge ANYBODY! If she chooses the wrong path then let Allah punish, do not attempt to do HIS job, for that is a sin in itself! You people are too quick in jumping to conclusions. It takes one "no" to stir up a lot of false accusations. Coming on here and writing wrongly about a girl, who according to you opposed Mutah, will not prove your superiority! In fact, portraying such a mentality ONLY points out your own flaws. She put the hijab on she took the hijab off yada yada yada...really?! Well, I could care less!!! Why don't you start worrying about your own actions for a change? Just because you are (so-called) knowledgeable about Mutah does not mean you understand the whole religion. Quite frankly, with such a mindset the only title you are probably eligible to earn is "Mutah King." Others should not be paying the price for your lack of self-respect.

[alimohamad40]

s.fatima, on 20 August 2011 - 12:52 PM, said:

No! He has no right whatsoever to judge ANYBODY! If she chooses the wrong path then let Allah punish, do not attempt to do HIS job, for that is a sin in itself! You people are too quick in jumping to conclusions. It takes one "no" to stir up a lot of false accusations. Coming on here and writing wrongly about a girl, who according to you opposed Mutah, will not prove your superiority! In fact, portraying such a mentality ONLY points out your own flaws. She put the hijab on she took the hijab off yada yada yada...really?! Well, I could care less!!! Why don't you start worrying about your own actions for a change? Just because you are (so-called) knowledgeable about Mutah does not mean you understand the whole religion. Quite frankly, with such a mindset the only title you are probably eligible to earn is "Mutah King." Others should not be paying the price for your lack of self-respect.

you admit that your a femenist
but in your title you wrote islam ? how does that add up ?

what do you mean i have no right to judge? then howcome you have the right to judge me and judge many others ???
you mean we have no right to make a right judgment but only false judgments like yours are valid?
We all judge and Allah asks us to judge as it says in the quraan " whoever does nto judge by what Allah brought down then they are the kafirs"
and one of our 10 foroo3 aldeen is alwala walbaraa and enjoining good and forbidding evil they all involve judgment so on what grounds have you prohibited judgments? how would you forbid evil if you can not judge weather or not something is evil?
What does Wala (aligence) and baraa (disassociation) mean?  how do you do Baraa isnt Baraa a judgment? how could you disassociate from some one if you don't make a negative judgment on them?

anti logic asked for elaboration thats why I explained because he/ she is doing a study on the subject so real life examples would be useful for them

Edited by alimohamad40, 20 August 2011 - 01:07 PM.

[s.fatima]

alimohamad40, on 20 August 2011 - 12:57 PM, said:

you admit that your a femenist
but in your title you wrote islam ? how does that add up ?

Nice defense. Just a "FYI" I didn't read your full post. Next time when I have time to waste I'll make the effort. Thanks for helping me make a point.

By the way, where in the Quran does it say...humiliate a woman if she does not follow the rules? No body cares about your affairs on here.

Edited by s.fatima, 20 August 2011 - 01:14 PM.

[alimohamad40]

s.fatima, on 20 August 2011 - 12:52 PM, said:

Coming on here and writing wrongly about a girl, who according to you opposed Mutah, will not prove your superiority!

Who said i claim superiority??? how did you draw that conclusion?  i just condemned a behavior of a  third party without naming them so how does that equate to me claiming superiority?

s.fatima, on 20 August 2011 - 12:52 PM, said:

In fact, portraying such a mentality ONLY points out your own flaws.

how does the sins of  a third party points out my flaws???
i mean there are a million ways that my flaws could be identified but this is not one of them

s.fatima, on 20 August 2011 - 12:52 PM, said:

She put the hijab on she took the hijab off yada yada yada...really?! Well, I could care less!!! Why don't you start worrying about your own actions for a change?

you could care less about Hijab? why isn't hijab part of your religion? I mean i depends weather your a muslim or a feminist but if your a muslim then hijab is compulsory in that religion.

what pressed your button so hard about hijab is it that you don't wear it so you got very offended?

s.fatima, on 20 August 2011 - 12:52 PM, said:

Just because you are (so-called) knowledgeable about Mutah does not mean you understand the whole religion. Quite frankly, with such a mindset the only title you are probably eligible to earn is "Mutah King." Others should not be paying the price for your lack of self-respect.

LOL knowledgeable about muta and muta king lol
the worst lack of self respect is the lack of respect for god and his orders