7 replies to this topic

[mehdi soldier]

The bible thumpers and the christian apologetics quickly jump to advertise that Jesus had prophesied his alleged death and "crucifixion" and "resurrection".
looking at the bible,one would see several instances were Jesus was said to have prophesied his alleged death and "crucifixion" and "resurrection".but it only takes one single verse (John 20:9;see below) to deny Jesus ever told anyone he was to "die and resurrect" and render the christian missionaries handicap!


Did Jesus forewarn the apostles of his death and resurrection?

Yes, he did:
Matthew 20:18-19
Behold, we go up to Jerusalem; and the Son of man shall be betrayed unto the chief priests and unto the scribes, and they shall condemn him to death, And shall deliver him to the Gentiles to mock, and to scourge, and to crucify him: and the third day he shall rise again.

Matthew 26:1-2
Jesus ,  said unto his disciples, Ye know that after two days is the feast of the passover, and the Son of man is betrayed to be crucified.

Matthew 26:31-32
Then saith Jesus unto them, All ye shall be offended because of me this night: for it is written, I will smite the shepherd, and the sheep of the flock shall be scattered abroad. But after I am risen again, I will go before you into Galilee.

Mark 8:31
And he began to teach them, that the Son of man must suffer many things, and be rejected of the elders, and of the chief priests, and scribes, and be killed, and after three days rise again.

Mark 10:33-34
Saying, Behold, we go up to Jerusalem; and the Son of man shall be delivered unto the chief priests, and unto the scribes; and they shall condemn him to death, and shall deliver him to the Gentiles: And they shall mock him, and shall scourge him, and shall spit upon him, and shall kill him: and the third day he shall rise again.

Mark 14:28
But after that I am risen, I will go before you into Galilee.
Luke 18:31-33
Then he took unto him the twelve, and said unto them, Behold, we go up to Jerusalem, and all things that are written by the prophets concerning the Son of man shall be accomplished. For he shall be delivered unto the Gentiles, and shall be mocked, and spitefully entreated, and spitted on: And they shall scourge him, and put him to death: and the third day he shall rise again.

No,He Did Not:
John 20:9
For as yet they knew not the scripture, that he must rise again from the dead.
WHAT ARE YOU TO BELIEVE? AND WHO IS LYING?
read more:
“the Christian God: Blood And Human Sacrifice”:
http://www.shiachat....96-easter-gift/

Edited by mehdi soldier, 14 August 2011 - 02:31 PM.

[Son of Placid]

LOLOLOLOLOLOL

Been running through that [Edited out] tall grass again?

[Note from mod: Please refrain from making racial inferences]

[AG15]

[Edited out]

[Note from mod: Please refrain from disrespecting the holy books of other faiths}

[Saintly_Jinn23]

Son of Placid, on 14 August 2011 - 10:56 PM, said:

LOLOLOLOLOLOL

Been running through that [Edited out] tall grass again?

AG15, on 16 January 2012 - 11:32 PM, said:

[Edited out]

Both you're comments are rude and defeat the purpose of the interfaith forums.

Anyway, Mehdi-Soldier, I fail to see the point you are making here. Normally, you have pretty good research, yet this seems rather...subpar considering it comes from you of all people...

[placid]

Quote: John 20:9
For as yet they knew not the scripture, that he must rise again from the dead.
WHAT ARE YOU TO BELIEVE? AND WHO IS LYING?

However, 20:8 and 9 are written after Jesus had risen from the dead, so the Scripture was fulfilled that He would rise from the dead.

8. Then the other disciple (John) who came to the tomb first went in also; AND HE SAW AND BELIEVED.
9. For as yet they did not know (understand) the Scripture, that He must rise again from the dead.

--- (Though Jesus had told them often, they did not understand it until it happened.)

[mehdi soldier]

Saintly_Jinn23, on 17 January 2012 - 01:25 AM, said:

Anyway, Mehdi-Soldier, I fail to see the point you are making here. Normally, you have pretty good research, yet this seems rather...subpar considering it comes from you of all people...

i beg to differ.the point is if Jesus had told his disciples what would happen there are many events that happened that showed the opposite of that.the question is were the disciples aware? or was Jesus himself aware?

take this for instance:

Mark 14:28
But after that I am risen, I will go before you into Galilee.

and now compare it to this:

John 20:9
For as yet they knew not the scripture, that he must rise again from the dead.

it is either Jesus made it known to them or he didnt.this is firstly a case of contradiction.secondly,it is an issue that can shake the very foundation of christian "salvation".

also,take in consideration the crying and pleading of Jesus for God to save his life in gethsemane.then also,how the disciples particularly the doubting Thomas thought they were seeing a ghost and disbelieved they were seeing Jesus after his alleged resurrection.he further on had to ask them to touch him and feel him and had fish and honeycomb to eat and prove he was the physical Jesus alive and well.

[Gypsy]

How did Christians start believing that Jesus died to atone their sins?

[mehdi soldier]

Gypsy, on 19 February 2012 - 08:52 AM, said:

How did Christians start believing that Jesus died to atone their sins?

Paul! Paul believes those who confess with words and believe that Jesus died for them,they have "salvation".that is all.you dont need to fast,or do any "good works" which he referred to as "filthy rags".

then the church fathers who held sway in the roman catholic church took up this and imposed it as was the case with the trinity and the formation of the bible by the early church fathers and their councils set up to deliberate in which they even used voting to pass their decisions.

historically there were church fathers who had their disagreed with the formation and adoption of the new doctrines and also there were early christians who neiither believed Jesus died for them nor did they believe he was god.this is history.searching only could give you a better insight into early christian history and how there were differences and how the less powerful were even oppressed to accept the "mainstream" beliefs under the roman empire which adopted christianity.