472 replies to this topic

[JimJam]

Nader Zaveri, on 16 August 2011 - 06:52 PM, said:

I think you are having a little bit too much fun with this whole screen shot business. The reason why my blog "opens" with that post is because that is the last post that I've made on my blog (over 150+ posts). Since RamaDaan started, I haven't gotten around to making new posts and putting together my research.

You better put up some content fast man,blind justice is onto you.

Edited by JimJam, 17 August 2011 - 07:03 AM.

[Muntaqim Force]

Nader Zaveri, on 16 August 2011 - 06:52 PM, said:

I think you are having a little bit too much fun with this whole screen shot business. The reason why my blog "opens" with that post is because that is the last post that I've made on my blog (over 150+ posts). Since RamaDaan started, I haven't gotten around to making new posts and putting together my research.

Nader Zaveri, on 16 August 2011 - 06:52 PM, said:

I think you are having a little bit too much fun with this whole screen shot business. The reason why my blog "opens" with that post is because that is the last post that I've made on my blog (over 150+ posts). Since RamaDaan started, I haven't gotten around to making new posts and putting together my research.

Salaam

Brother Zaveri, first of all i want you to understand that i do not have anything personal against you nor did i said that you are anti shia agent . I expressed my doubt along with some screen shot facts. Tell me if i was wrong in developing this doubt!!!? I am sure you must have come across plenty of shia muslims doubting your character so this is not something new.

You said it was your research, well i went through your whole blog and all your research is about proving historical facts of shias wrong. Either their narrator or the mother of their Imam. As a shia why your research is not towards positive aspects of the teachings of Imams a.s . Why your research is not about science and Imams, Medicine and Imams, technology and Imams !!!!! Why your research is towards dividing shia islam!!!!!?

JazakAllah

[Muntaqim Force]

Salaam

Here is another of such thing which made me present these doubts. First let see what the great scholars of Shia Islam have their stance about the topic of Tahreef.

Whilst we find hadiths in both Shia and Sunni text implying that there might be some corruption of the Quran such traditions are rejected as unreliable and there remains a consensus among Shia and Ahle Sunnah about the completeness, purity and authority of the Holy Quran. Whilst this should not therefore be a topic of debate, we have still chosen to publish an article on this topic for two reasons:

• To clarify the naïve minds who read such traditions and fall into confusion.
  
• Nasibi attacks on the Shia belief in the completeness of Quran due to some weak traditions recorded in our text (Just as there in the authentic Sunni text).

We wish to make it clear from the outset that we had on numerous occasions shelved plans to publish this, since we feared the material being used as propaganda fodder for Jews and Christians. Unfortunately since such a fear didn’t hinder them in the slightest, they shamelessly continued producing materials on the Shia ‘belief’ in tahreef we were forced to refute them by highlighting tahreef traditions from the pen of the Sahaba and scholars they venerate.
(taken from answering.ansar)

Now look at the following Image;



When our scholars clearly refuted those hadiths about tahreef and they say not to talk about this topic then why on earth one Shia brother who is always active in anti shia propoganda brings this up here. Then keep on emphasizing with words "our hadith" 'our scholar".

May Allah reveal the truth to us

[Gypsy]

Muntaqim Force, on 17 August 2011 - 04:12 PM, said:

When our scholars clearly refuted those hadiths about tahreef and they say not to talk about this topic then why on earth one Shia brother who is always active in anti shia propoganda brings this up here. Then keep on emphasizing with words "our hadith" 'our scholar".

I don’t think there is anything wrong to speak about tahreef. A great majority of the Sunnis and nasibis think Shias have a separate Al-Quran. It’s always good to clarify what we really believe in.

I also don’t think Nader has presented himself as a scholar. He is just a man with a blog who is working independently without any guidance from a live-in scholar. His views don’t really represent the Shia mainstream scholarly views because he doesn’t really have that authority.

The best people who can tell you about the mainstream Shia views are the Shia scholars. And they should be referred to at all time.

[diracdeltafunc]

Anyways, going back to the topic : is it me or does the debate seem very one sided? I.e walid being in defence and refuting the claims of farid rather than quoting the blasphemous hadees narrated by abu huraira?

[Saimaaa]

^ I think it has been decided that in the first phase Farid shall be presenting his arguments and Walid shall be defending. In the next phase , it shall be vice versa. The debate is really of a scholarly level and is going on in a well mannered fashion. Both the parties can learn from it alot. I remember once i read that if a man reads a book he starts speaking and if he reads a thousand , he gets silent.

Both the debaters are well learned and well mannered.Lets see what conclusion do they reach.

[Muntaqim Force]

Zareen, on 17 August 2011 - 06:11 PM, said:

I don’t think there is anything wrong to speak about tahreef. A great majority of the Sunnis and nasibis think Shias have a separate Al-Quran. It’s always good to clarify what we really believe in.

I also don’t think Nader has presented himself as a scholar. He is just a man with a blog who is working independently without any guidance from a live-in scholar. His views don’t really represent the Shia mainstream scholarly views because he doesn’t really have that authority.

The best people who can tell you about the mainstream Shia views are the Shia scholars. And they should be referred to at all time.

I agree with you 100% . But as you said we are suppose to speak about tahreef only to those Nasibis who accuse us but this shia brother is bringing the tahreef topic and discussing it among shias to show them that their books are bad, to show them that their scholar, great scholar such as Allama Majilis was wrong. That's why i felt like presenting this too.

I am very happy to know that Shias on this forum know from where to take religion and not from self proclaimed blog runner. So i do not need to work on this anymore. May Allah bless you always

JazakAllah

saima.bukhari, on 17 August 2011 - 06:29 PM, said:

^ I think it has been decided that in the first phase Farid shall be presenting his arguments and Walid shall be defending. In the next phase , it shall be vice versa. The debate is really of a scholarly level and is going on in a well mannered fashion. Both the parties can learn from it alot. I remember once i read that if a man reads a book he starts speaking and if he reads a thousand , he gets silent.

Both the debaters are well learned and well mannered.Lets see what conclusion do they reach.

loooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooool some people are sooooo shamless. And there is nothing to wonder about it too because they are following the foot steps of their fore fathers who killed Imam Hussain a.s and has no shame in calling themselves muslims.

[doobybrother]

Muntaqim Force, on 16 August 2011 - 02:57 PM, said:

Some about Mr debater

Are you nuts, whats non shia about his signature?

[Darth Vader]

Lord Botta is a dishonest non-muslim who has been comprehensively neutered here on Shiachat in the past. On one occasion, when I used Qur'an to defeat hi isnad/rijal hogwash, he replied: "Even Qur'anic verses have isnad." (He doubted the Qur'an and rejected its decision!). What a lame kafir.

As for the debate on that forum, I wouldn't go there for many obvious reasons. One being that I have no wish to leave my IP there and have those mercenaries of Satan on my back who are govt. and army intelligence minions here in Pakistan. There would be hell to pay if I have to shoot one of those jackals in self defense.

And like some people here have already stated, rijaal/isnad is old news, no one gets impressed by that self contradictory and bigotted CONJECTURE of the mullah any more.

Edited by Abu Dujana, 19 August 2011 - 06:34 AM.

[Muntaqim Force]

doobybrother, on 19 August 2011 - 06:03 AM, said:

Are you nuts, whats non shia about his signature?

Read the red note on Left side

Mind your language in future.

JazakAllah

[doobybrother]

Muntaqim Force, on 19 August 2011 - 09:48 AM, said:

Read the red note on Left side

Mind your language in future.

JazakAllah

Well thats stupid as well.

Jazakallah

[Muntaqim Force]

doobybrother, on 19 August 2011 - 01:08 PM, said:

Well thats stupid as well.

Jazakallah

Well of for you saying Ya Ali a.s infront of his enemies is stupid then i cannot help you and also i will not waste my time in debating about this matter. Some wise said, when a fool look at something all he perceives is foolishness and when some wise look at the same thing he comes up with explaining even the hidden meanings. Stupid perceives everything as stupidity and vise versa for wise man.

JazakAllah

[Sheraz]

That debate site not working? Anyone know why?

[Muntaqim Force]

Sheraz, on 19 August 2011 - 01:48 PM, said:

That debate site not working? Anyone know why?

This Account Has Been Suspended . Devil and his army cannot stand the Zarb of Zulfiqar.

Edited by Muntaqim Force, 19 August 2011 - 01:59 PM.

[Saimaaa]

The forum is working again. The debate continues.......

[Haydar Husayn]

Muntaqim Force, on 17 August 2011 - 08:57 AM, said:

Salaam

Brother Zaveri, first of all i want you to understand that i do not have anything personal against you nor did i said that you are anti shia agent . I expressed my doubt along with some screen shot facts. Tell me if i was wrong in developing this doubt!!!? I am sure you must have come across plenty of shia muslims doubting your character so this is not something new.

You said it was your research, well i went through your whole blog and all your research is about proving historical facts of shias wrong. Either their narrator or the mother of their Imam. As a shia why your research is not towards positive aspects of the teachings of Imams a.s . Why your research is not about science and Imams, Medicine and Imams, technology and Imams !!!!! Why your research is towards dividing shia islam!!!!!?

JazakAllah

You really should do more research before posting your ridiculous accusations. I hope the following blog posts are pro-Shia enough for your tastes.

http://www.revivinga...ies-part-1.html
http://www.revivinga...heeah-book.html
http://www.revivinga...am-hussain.html
http://www.revivinga...l-bayt-and.html
http://www.revivinga...proud-shia.html
http://www.revivinga...f-judgment.html
http://www.revivinga...-of-fatima.html
http://www.revivinga...m-ali-imam.html
http://www.revivinga...asooma-qum.html
http://www.revivinga...or-killing.html

There are many more of course, but this should be sufficient. As to why he spends time on issues such as the mother of Imam Mahdi , perhaps it is because not everyone wants to believe in fairytales that have no basis in history. Also, how would you like it if someone said your mother was someone else than she really was? Would that make you happy, just because they said your mother was a Roman princess?

[Inglip]

the debate is heating up

[Al-Afasy]

Sheikh Farid will win! (inshallah of course)

[diracdeltafunc]

What a dissappointment it has turned out to be!! Walid has let the whole shia community down by withdrawing from the debate coz it would lead to "differences between the shias and sunnis"?! I mean come on! Didnt he think of this before he accepted the challenge?!

His decision reminds me of  the one made by abu musa ashari (la) for sifeen. Honestly what an insult ! Those wahabis only just need an excuse (as always) to point fingers @ us. Now they're like oh the coward couldnt defend so he ran away blah blah blah.

Edited by diracdeltafunc, 28 August 2011 - 06:53 PM.

[Haydar Husayn]

Yeah, completely ridiculous, but he seems to have an obsession with 'Shia-Sunni' unity.

[Al-Afasy]

haidar al karrar, on 28 August 2011 - 04:36 PM, said:

Sheikh Farid will win! (inshallah of course)

And Sheikh farid won!!!

Eid Mubarak folks!!

[pakistanyar]

well i didn't read much of it but i noticed he said he has a "teacher", before i think he was just a "independent" so i'm wondering what kind of teacher he has.

[Saimaaa]

Farid has won the debate !!

It was an interesting debate but Farid's arguments were really strong and i had the impression from the beginning that the Shia debater will back out eventually. Congratulations to the Sunnis , congratulations to Farid and Eid Mubarak everyone.

[zakzaki]

LOL who is this walid (sunni caliph name who killed Shias) representing Shias.  He is not even a known Shia let alone a Alim.  I guess it is all salafi makeup drama to cause fitna in Ramdan.
.

Edited by zakzaki, 29 August 2011 - 02:55 AM.

[Saimaaa]

^ Oh really ? Farid said in the debate thread there after the shia debater (by the way , Walid is not unknown. He has been posting here and running his own website) backed out and technically lost the debate that he would like some shia to continue it with him so why don't you volunteer for the debate lol? Even it is really hard to imagine that a copy paster like you will take part in such a scholarly debate.