472 replies to this topic

[macisaac]

Sayyed Ali, on 27 December 2012 - 01:29 PM, said:

Today Wasil wrote in his Forum:

And the rest of the quote above...

Quote

I don't care what people think and i will never associate with today's shias again. my friends here (on this forum) are enough : zulfeqar, ibn hasan, iniesta .. that's it .. the rest of ghulat and ignorants can go f***** themselves

Whatever dude...

[Darth Vader]

Pimples, dude. I will hang out with my Wahabi homies and play basketball. Because, pimples. Yeah.

[Dar'ul_Islam]

Did I just see taraddi to Shaykhayn and `Aa'isha? Fear Allah, brothers and sisters. Fear Allah and cling tight to tabarra'.

في امان الله

[Al-Afasy]

See you in Hell.

[Vigilare]

Al-Afasy, on 27 December 2012 - 11:03 PM, said:

See you in Hell.

Are you planning to be there also or something?

[Al-Afasy]

Vigilare, on 27 December 2012 - 11:19 PM, said:

Are you planning to be there also or something?

No, but you can say hi for me right?

Edited by Al-Afasy, 27 December 2012 - 11:22 PM.

[Vigilare]

Al-Afasy, on 27 December 2012 - 11:22 PM, said:

No, but you can say hi for me right?

Ah...so you're assuming he'll definitely be going hell, and you're assuming I'll be going hell to and finally assuming you wont be going hell.  That's a lot of assumptions for someone who doesn't know what tomorrow will bring.

[Al-Afasy]

Vigilare, on 27 December 2012 - 11:29 PM, said:

Ah...so you're assuming he'll definitely be going hell, and you're assuming I'll be going hell to and finally assuming you wont be going hell.  That's a lot of assumptions for someone who doesn't know what tomorrow will bring.

You think Allah (swt) would want a Najis Sheikhain lover in Paradise?

Edited by Al-Afasy, 27 December 2012 - 11:33 PM.

[Vigilare]

Vigilare, on 27 December 2012 - 11:29 PM, said:

Ah...so you're assuming he'll definitely be going hell, and you're assuming I'll be going hell to and finally assuming you wont be going hell.  That's a lot of assumptions for someone who doesn't know what tomorrow will bring.

Al-Afasy, on 27 December 2012 - 11:33 PM, said:

You think Allah (swt) would want a Najis Sheikhain lover in Paradise?

Excellent rebuttal there.

By the way, since you implied I'll be joining him (coupled with calling me a kafir yesterday) you must have learnt to be so judgemental from somewhere, but it's definitely not from the Prophet or the Ahlul-Bayt .

[Dar'ul_Islam]

[ 10751 ] 3 ـ وبإسناده عن الحسين بن سعيد ، عن النضر ، عن يحيى الحلبي ، عن ابن مسكان ، عن إسماعيل الجعفي قال : قلت لابي جعفر ( عليه السلام ) : رجل يحب أمير المؤمنين ( عليه السلام ) ولا يتبرأ من عدوه ويقول : هو أحب إلي ممن خالفه ، فقال : هذا مخلط وهو عدو ، فلا تصل خلفه ولا كرامة إلا أن تتقيه .
ورواه الصدوق بإسناده عن إسماعيل الجعفي ، مثله ، إلا أنه قال : لا تصل وراءه .

3 – And by his isnad form al-Husayn b. Sa`id from an-Nadr from Yahya al-Halabi from Ibn Muskan from Isma`il al-Ju`fi.  He said: I said to Abu Ja`far عليه السلام: A man who loves Amir al-Mu’mineen عليه السلام but does not do bara’a from his enemies, and he says: He is more beloved to me from those who opposed him.  So he said: This is a confused (person) and he is an enemy, so do not pray behind him, not at all, unless you fear him.
And as-Saduq narrated it by his isnad from Isma`il al-Ju`fi likewise, except that he said: Do not pray behind him.

Sahih, by the way.

في امان الله

[Vigilare]

Dar, on 28 December 2012 - 05:14 PM, said:

[ 10751 ] 3 ـ وبإسناده عن الحسين بن سعيد ، عن النضر ، عن يحيى الحلبي ، عن ابن مسكان ، عن إسماعيل الجعفي قال : قلت لابي جعفر ( عليه السلام ) : رجل يحب أمير المؤمنين ( عليه السلام ) ولا يتبرأ من عدوه ويقول : هو أحب إلي ممن خالفه ، فقال : هذا مخلط وهو عدو ، فلا تصل خلفه ولا كرامة إلا أن تتقيه .
ورواه الصدوق بإسناده عن إسماعيل الجعفي ، مثله ، إلا أنه قال : لا تصل وراءه .

3 – And by his isnad form al-Husayn b. Sa`id from an-Nadr from Yahya al-Halabi from Ibn Muskan from Isma`il al-Ju`fi.  He said: I said to Abu Ja`far عليه السلام: A man who loves Amir al-Mu’mineen عليه السلام but does not do bara’a from his enemies, and he says: He is more beloved to me from those who opposed him.  So he said: This is a confused (person) and he is an enemy, so do not pray behind him, not at all, unless you fear him.
And as-Saduq narrated it by his isnad from Isma`il al-Ju`fi likewise, except that he said: Do not pray behind him.

Sahih, by the way.

في امان الله

Thanks. If I was cynical I'd say what a convenient narration, and how it's amazing that sunnis have similar narrations about those who don't love the Shaykhayn.

But I'm not that cynical.

One person says another person is going hell because that person apparently doesn't do tabarra the way he should and fanboys jump with joy without thinking about the implications of that.

Thank Allah 'shias' think so differently to those judgemental wahabis.

[Haydar Husayn]

Vigilare, on 28 December 2012 - 07:42 PM, said:

Thanks. If I was cynical I'd say what a convenient narration, and how it's amazing that sunnis have similar narrations about those who don't love the Shaykhayn.

But I'm not that cynical.

One person says another person is going hell because that person apparently doesn't do tabarra the way he should and fanboys jump with joy without thinking about the implications of that.

Thank Allah 'shias' think so differently to those judgemental wahabis.

It's not so much that he isn't doing tabarra the way he should, but that he openly expresses love for these people. At the very least, he should refrain from saying anything one way or the other. But you can't hold both the position that `Ali was the rightful successor, appointed by the Prophet , and that Abu Bakr and `Umar were good people.

[Vigilare]

Haydar Husayn, on 28 December 2012 - 08:31 PM, said:

It's not so much that he isn't doing tabarra the way he should, but that he openly expresses love for these people. At the very least, he should refrain from saying anything one way or the other. But you can't hold both the position that `Ali was the rightful successor, appointed by the Prophet , and that Abu Bakr and `Umar were good people.

Actually he should refrain from announcing anything about his beliefs, because they seem to change often.

But as a matter of principle, I don't think it's right what Al-Afsay said, and clearly he implied I'd be going hell too.  Now that doesn't actually bother me because I've had sunnis tell me I'll be going hell too so to me they're just different sides of the same coin, but I find it interesting how judgemental some shias are.

But I have more important things to tend to, such as changing nappies and making sure the little one burps properly, so I'll leave it at that.

[Al-Afasy]

Vigilare, on 27 December 2012 - 11:41 PM, said:

Excellent rebuttal there.

By the way, since you implied I'll be joining him (coupled with calling me a kafir yesterday) you must have learnt to be so judgemental from somewhere, but it's definitely not from the Prophet or the Ahlul-Bayt .

You didn't answer my question, why would Allah (SWT) want such a person in paradise?

[Hannibal]

I would ask the brothers here to refrain from being Allah's representatives and assuming that they know what He will do and not do on Yawm al-Qiyama with particular individuals  who are around us today. What we know is that Allah (swt) deals with every individual on their own while taking into consideration their particular circumstances and that he is the Most Merciful of all.

Edited by Hannibal, 30 December 2012 - 02:41 PM.

[MAFHHM]

Hannibal, on 30 December 2012 - 02:40 PM, said:

I would ask the brothers here to refrain from being Allah's representatives and assuming that they know what He will do and not do on Yawm al-Qiyama with particular individuals  who are around us today. What we know is that Allah (swt) deals with every individual on their own while taking into consideration their particular circumstances and that he is the Most Merciful of all.

Brother were you not supposed to release two articles in the summer debunking the ja'maah's hadith science, and enlightening ours ? Summer is long past. It's Winter now, and I'm freezing.

Edited by MAFHHM, 30 December 2012 - 03:37 PM.

[Al-Afasy]

Hannibal, on 30 December 2012 - 02:40 PM, said:

I would ask the brothers here to refrain from being Allah's representatives and assuming that they know what He will do and not do on Yawm al-Qiyama with particular individuals  who are around us today. What we know is that Allah (swt) deals with every individual on their own while taking into consideration their particular circumstances and that he is the Most Merciful of all.

Seeing as you have a history of being a self-hating Imami, I don't think you'd see a problem with a Najis Sheikhain lover being in Paradise as well.

Stop the neutrality act, you're really not good at pulling it off.

Edited by Al-Afasy, 30 December 2012 - 07:37 PM.

[Gypsy]

Hannibal, on 30 December 2012 - 02:40 PM, said:

I would ask the brothers here to refrain from being Allah's representatives and assuming that they know what He will do and not do on Yawm al-Qiyama with particular individuals  who are around us today. What we know is that Allah (swt) deals with every individual on their own while taking into consideration their particular circumstances and that he is the Most Merciful of all.

Even so, it's better to warn the non-Shias about their worthless belief (being rejectors of ahl al-bayt) before it's too late. Right now, the confused Sunnis still have a chance to get back on the right path of ahl al-bayt.

[Vigilare]

Gypsy, on 30 December 2012 - 10:22 PM, said:

Even so, it's better to warn the non-Shias about their worthless belief (being rejectors of ahl al-bayt) before it's too late. Right now, the confused Sunnis still have a chance to get back on the right path of ahl al-bayt.

Yes, and the best way to do this apparently is to tell them they're going hell (!).

[Gypsy]

Vigilare, on 31 December 2012 - 07:38 PM, said:

Yes, and the best way to do this apparently is to tell them they're going hell (!).

Why not?

If you reject ahl al-bayt, then you are jeopardizing your akhira. This is a serious matter and people need to be reminded, even the Shias.

[Abul Hussain Hassani]

MAFHHM, on 30 December 2012 - 03:30 PM, said:

Brother were you not supposed to release two articles in the summer debunking the ja'maah's hadith science, and enlightening ours ? Summer is long past. It's Winter now, and I'm freezing.

I heard from some brothers that member 'Hannibal' himself doesn't belief in Hadith Science, Shia or Sunni. So how can such a person, who rejects Hadith Science, write article in refutation of Sunni Hadith Science. Strange!

[Dar'ul_Islam]

Abul Hussain Hassani, on 01 January 2013 - 10:39 AM, said:

I heard from some brothers that member 'Hannibal' himself doesn't belief in Hadith Science, Shia or Sunni. So how can such a person, who rejects Hadith Science, write article in refutation of Sunni Hadith Science. Strange!

Incorrect. He does not believe rijal and investigation of asanid bring certainty and that it is not the sole determiner of accepting or rejecting akhbar - and this is actually the most prevalent view amongs Sunni and Shi'i scholars of the non-Salafi variety.

في امان الله

[Ibn-Ahmed Aliyy Herz]

Imam an Nawawi said: “the majority of Muslim scholars and leading authorities (al- muhaqqiqun wal-aktharūn) held that unless the Sahih is of the mutawātir category, it shall remain probable and can never attain the level of certainty”.

Imam al-Bayhaqi : “The perspicuous scholars (Ahl al-nazar) among our [Ash`ari or Shafi`i] companions relinquish the use of lone-narrated reports as proofs in the divine Attributes if such reports do not have a foundation in the Qur'an or in scholarly consensus. Instead, they interpret them figuratively.”

Khateeb Al Baghdadi  says: “Khabar al-Āhād is where one of the conditions of mutawātir is missing even if a group narrated this report…they provide an obligation to act upon them, but are not obligatory of ‘ilm (do not provide certainty).”


Al Juwayni says: “Akhbār āhād provide necessity for actions, but do not provide necessity in ‘ilm because a mistake is possible”.

Al-Ghazaali in his first Usūl work al-Mankhul, written at the age of 26, said: "Some claim that Khabar ul-Ahaad imply certainty. This is impossible.” Many years later, in his other very famous work on Usūl (but not only other work on Usūl) he said in Al- Mustasfa: "Khabar Al-Ahaad does not imply certainty. This is a basic fact of its definition."

Ibn `Abd al-Barr states in his book At-Tahmid (1:7) the position of the Ahl Us Sunnah Wal Jamaah: “What the majority of the people of knowledge believe is as follows: Some hold that the lone-narrated hadith make practice obligatory but not knowledge (yûjib al-`amal dûna al-`ilm). This is the position of al-Shafi`i and the vast majority of the jurists and the scholars of principles (Usūl ul-Fiqh). To them, the lone-narrated hadith does not make knowledge obligatory by itself and except on oath, providing definite preclusion of falsehood, and if there is no disagreement concerning it.”

Al Qurtubi said: “The Ahkaam of the shariah can be taken by ghalabat ad-Dhann (preponderant knowledge), as is engendered by forms of Qiyas and Khabar Wahid.”


Imam Ibn Humām said: “The majority of scholars and muhadditheen mentioned that Khabar al-Wāhid doesn’t provide certainty without other indications, and that with them it could provide ‘ilm but not necessarily indisputable certainty”.

Imam al-Suyuti in volume two of his book "The Precision in the Sciences of the Quran", comments in the chapter entitled `The Single and Odd Readings' that ahad reports , even if the narration is authentic, cannot be taken as an evidence in the matter of belief, or in the foundations of the deen (i.e. Islam); as the Quran is the source of the sources and is concerned with the creed, obliging belief in it, then tawatur becomes a condition for confirming it. Hence solitary reports will not be taken as evidence.

Imam Alaa’ al-Din al- Samarqandi [d. 540 / 1145] (RH) said: “And from the āhād, if they are concerned with actions then they are a proof (Hujjah) but if they are concerned with ‘Aqeedah then they are not a proof (hujjah) for belief as they don’t give rise to certainty.”



Imam al Bazdawi (RH) said: “The Wahid provides necessity in actions but not with ‘ilm (certain knowledge), and we explained that mashoor doesn’t provide ‘ilm, so āhād or Wahid certainly does not. The Wahid does, however, have possibility and he who denies this has misguided his mind and himself.”

Abul Hussain Hassani, on 01 January 2013 - 10:39 AM, said:

I heard from some brothers that member 'Hannibal' himself doesn't belief in Hadith Science, Shia or Sunni. So how can such a person, who rejects Hadith Science, write article in refutation of Sunni Hadith Science. Strange!

He never said he didn't believe in hadith science,he said that khabar ahad as well as rijal does not bring yaqeen.

Also to answer your question,someone can say to you that X person is not a christian,yet he is still refuting it. So your statement isn't sensible.