294 replies to this topic

[Shi3i4lyfYouTube]

Salam Alaykum
Video on Youtube. Recommended.
Please share your views. I would love to see non-Muslim views of
these quotes.

Thank you!

Here is the link:

[Son of Placid]

What does Thulfiqar mean?

[titumir]

The views will not be pretty. Non Muslims believe that our Prophet(PBUH) was a violent terrorist who forced people to convert to Islam by the sword, and that is why Islam was/is as successful as it is. They get taught this in their churches and temples and synagogues.

[.IceMan.]

[Son of Placid]

titumir, on 10 August 2011 - 02:55 PM, said:

The views will not be pretty. Non Muslims believe that our Prophet(PBUH) was a violent terrorist who forced people to convert to Islam by the sword, and that is why Islam was/is as successful as it is. They get taught this in their churches and temples and synagogues.

Actually I've never heard a word out of a Minister or Paster. Christians believe Jesus was the last so anything after is false, no fuss, just false. Islam gets a bad rep from terrorists. no surprise there.

[Shi3i4lyfYouTube]

Son of Placid, on 10 August 2011 - 01:14 PM, said:

What does Thulfiqar mean?

Thulfiqar literally means "The double-edged"
Imam Ali's sword.

titumir, on 10 August 2011 - 02:55 PM, said:

The views will not be pretty. Non Muslims believe that our Prophet(PBUH) was a violent terrorist who forced people to convert to Islam by the sword, and that is why Islam was/is as successful as it is. They get taught this in their churches and temples and synagogues.

Clearly, there should be some kind of change of heart, since their own scholars and historians (from the West), gave testimony to the beautiful nature of his [pbuh&hf] character..?

[Son of Placid]

Thanks, I figured it was something like that.

If you're the average Christian you don't care. They say a lot of nice things about Ghandi too but Christians stopped at Jesus.

I've gained a lot more respect for Muhammad and Imam Ali since being here. It's not the average Christian thing to do.

[ImAli]

The one that most Christians like to throw around is pedophile

[SatanicToast]

Although the typical view of a Christian has already been discussed here, I wonder if Jews are different in their perspective. Even if it's to a slight amount, maybe to a more neutral view?

[Son of Placid]

ImAli, on 11 August 2011 - 01:42 PM, said:

The one that most Christians like to throw around is pedophile

Sorry but the multi wife thing doesn't go over well in the West. Females under 18 are considered "jail bait". Some may find that hard to deal with.
Muhammad poses no threat to those that know better but the average Christian believes his religion leads to terrorism, some are louder than others.
I've challenged a few on their "anti Islam" opinions on Christian sites. Only one site hasn't booted me. Christian sites don't have a Muslim/Jewish/Christian debate area.

[ImAli]

Son of Placid, on 12 August 2011 - 12:20 AM, said:

Sorry but the multi wife thing doesn't go over well in the West. Females under 18 are considered "jail bait". Some may find that hard to deal with.
Muhammad poses no threat to those that know better but the average Christian believes his religion leads to terrorism, some are louder than others.
I've challenged a few on their "anti Islam" opinions on Christian sites. Only one site hasn't booted me. Christian sites don't have a Muslim/Jewish/Christian debate area.

They like to throw around Aisha and exaggerate about how young she was. They like to take quite a few years off of her and say she was 3. They just love to throw that one out. Too bad most of them don't realize their grandmothers a few generations back were probably like 11 when they married and most likely had a husband quite older. You also never find them talk about the difference in age of Mary and Joseph, for those of you who don't know who Joseph is....he is the husband they believed Mary to have (they say Joseph was around 40 and Mary no older than 14)..........if you try to bring that up they will respond with, "Oh, it was just different times."

Edited by ImAli, 12 August 2011 - 07:20 AM.

[placid]

Hi Shi,

I have watched the video twice to read the message, then three more times to try to understand the connection of the video to the message.

It starts with a post in the sand, and a banner.
Then, one hand touching others,
Then, a small group sitting down, and one teaching with dramatic gestures.
Then, a large group with turbans, --- showing obvious skepticism.
Then, the black robed leader with a long chain with a cross, and holding a large crucifix in his left hand
There is some private discussion.
There is obvious skepticism and disbelief among the congregation.
--- One in a brown robe teaches something, --- the black robed man, with crucifix in hand, listens.
Not sure what the dissenters are saying to the leader with the crucifix
The black robed leader keeps on preaching with the crucifix in his right hand --- obviously more dissent and more skepticism.
--- The one in the brown robe seems to try to calm the congregation
Then, the group goes out into the country.
First a boy running, --- then the man in the black robe sees someone.
He runs violently with the crucifix, --- another man joins him.
They run to where two people are approaching and it seems one is carrying a child, and two other small children are with them.
One man goes up, takes the child, and the man who had the child disappears.
Then, two hands in the position of prayer, then opening as though to receive something, --- and two small hands coming up between them.
It ends with the two men running, and with the crucifix held high

--- The cross and the crucifix are rejected by both Jews and Muslims, and the crucifix is the symbol of the Roman Catholic Church, --- so can you explain what it means, and how it goes together with the message of Muhammad as a Prophet to his people?

I have great respect for Muhammad and have read in the long intro of Mr Pickthall’s translation of the Quran, of his humble lifestyle, before God called him to be a Prophet to Arabia and bring the people out of idolatry and back to the worship of our One God. --- And how he remained humble in his service to God.
While Muhammad was reluctant at first, he was encouraged by his wife Khadijah who prayed for God’s guidance.
After he accepted, he was God’s messenger and Prophet to the people and through the conflicts with the idolaters and the Meccan army, who were the ‘self appointed’ guardians of the temple that housed some 360 idols, --- God gave Muhammad the victory.
He removed the idols and destroyed them and established daily prayers at the Kabah, the House of Prayer, --- where the idols had been.
At his final Pilgrimage he declared the victory, as idolatry had been removed from Arabia and he had declared a ’peace’ at the fulfillment of his Mission.
--- Shortly thereafter Muhammad died and while he appointed His son-in-law, Ali, to be his successor, Ali was rejected by others who sought the leadership.
Unfortunately the ‘peace’ didn’t prevail because within two years the Muslim factions were at war among themselves.

Nothing that happened after Muhammad’s death can be blamed on him as the Quran was to be the final word to follow.
--- I would like to discuss more, but I want to know what the video is supposed to be saying.


Placid

[titumir]

Quote

Unfortunately the ‘peace’ didn’t prevail because within two years the Muslim factions were at war among themselves.

Well if we look at European history we see that the entire Christian world was at constant war with each other for a long time, until finally in 1945 they were so battered that they decided to form the EU and never fight again. Actually it was due to the constant killing and intolerance that Europeans finally got fed up and separated Church and State, and gave equality and human rights to all.

A similar situation can be seen in Pakistan, where due to the extreme sectarian intolerance prevailing there, the majority of educated people support a secular system. Actually come to think of it I believe most people on shiachat.com will support a secular system in Pakistan. At least people wouldn't get bombed every day.

[placid]

Hi Shi,

Is there no explanation for the video?

[Shi3i4lyfYouTube]

placid, on 12 August 2011 - 07:36 AM, said:

Hi Shi,

I have watched the video twice to read the message, then three more times to try to understand the connection of the video to the message.

It starts with a post in the sand, and a banner.
Then, one hand touching others,
Then, a small group sitting down, and one teaching with dramatic gestures.
Then, a large group with turbans, --- showing obvious skepticism.
Then, the black robed leader with a long chain with a cross, and holding a large crucifix in his left hand
There is some private discussion.
There is obvious skepticism and disbelief among the congregation.
--- One in a brown robe teaches something, --- the black robed man, with crucifix in hand, listens.
Not sure what the dissenters are saying to the leader with the crucifix
The black robed leader keeps on preaching with the crucifix in his right hand --- obviously more dissent and more skepticism.
--- The one in the brown robe seems to try to calm the congregation
Then, the group goes out into the country.
First a boy running, --- then the man in the black robe sees someone.
He runs violently with the crucifix, --- another man joins him.
They run to where two people are approaching and it seems one is carrying a child, and two other small children are with them.
One man goes up, takes the child, and the man who had the child disappears.
Then, two hands in the position of prayer, then opening as though to receive something, --- and two small hands coming up between them.
It ends with the two men running, and with the crucifix held high

--- The cross and the crucifix are rejected by both Jews and Muslims, and the crucifix is the symbol of the Roman Catholic Church, --- so can you explain what it means, and how it goes together with the message of Muhammad as a Prophet to his people?

I have great respect for Muhammad and have read in the long intro of Mr Pickthall’s translation of the Quran, of his humble lifestyle, before God called him to be a Prophet to Arabia and bring the people out of idolatry and back to the worship of our One God. --- And how he remained humble in his service to God.
While Muhammad was reluctant at first, he was encouraged by his wife Khadijah who prayed for God’s guidance.
After he accepted, he was God’s messenger and Prophet to the people and through the conflicts with the idolaters and the Meccan army, who were the ‘self appointed’ guardians of the temple that housed some 360 idols, --- God gave Muhammad the victory.
He removed the idols and destroyed them and established daily prayers at the Kabah, the House of Prayer, --- where the idols had been.
At his final Pilgrimage he declared the victory, as idolatry had been removed from Arabia and he had declared a ’peace’ at the fulfillment of his Mission.
--- Shortly thereafter Muhammad died and while he appointed His son-in-law, Ali, to be his successor, Ali was rejected by others who sought the leadership.
Unfortunately the ‘peace’ didn’t prevail because within two years the Muslim factions were at war among themselves.

Nothing that happened after Muhammad’s death can be blamed on him as the Quran was to be the final word to follow.
--- I would like to discuss more, but I want to know what the video is supposed to be saying.


Placid

My apologies, Placid. I wasn’t informed of any updates to this thread via notifications. I had to check myself.
As for the details in the video itself, I chose those specific scenes from the “Lantern” movie because I thought they were very symbolic.

• The hand of the Holy Prophet touching fellow Muslims of various skin colours. This represents the unity of Muslims in Islam.
  
• Then to the scene of the Christian priests who were obviously (from the gesters and reactions), insulting the Holy Prophet. I chose this scene because it shows the Prophet in his actual nature. He reacts very calmly to insults and as you can see, it clearly shows him calming his companions as they were outraged.
  
• This whole scene was after the Holy Prophet gave all proofs to the Christian Priests that he is infact sent from God. They refused to accept it. So, he challenged them to “Mubahala” – an act in which 2 opposing parties pray to God to send a curse on the opposition and show who is on the truth and who is not. This is done with the consent and insistence of both parties. The scene basically shows them (the priests) bragging about them winning the Mubahala.

P.s. The Mubahala event has been mentioned in the Holy Quran. Refer to the “Mubahala” Ayah.
4.         As for the group of 5 coming to the challenge, it is none other than the Holy Prophet , Imam Ali, his wife Fatima Zahra and their 2 sons Hassan and Hussain peace and blessings be upon them all. They were slowly approaching the scene where the challenge took place, put a mat on the floor and sat to begin the Mubahala. The priests became very reluctant as they saw the light of God in this blessed 5, and they were sure that they would be the one to be cursed. So, one of them runs towards the Ahlulbayt to ask them not to begin the Mubahala.
The Holy Prophet was never reluctant at receiving the message from God. This is something that the Sunni brethren usually claim. They believe that the Holy Prophet was even ‘scared’ after seeing Jibra’el (a.s) … Something hard to accept.
The peace was broken right after Abu Bakr took the Khilafa for himself and waged a series of wars that lasted years on the companions who refused to accept him. The wars were collectively called “the wars of apostasy (riddah)”, as Abu Bakr claimed that his opposition have become apostates.
That is true, however, it would not be a reason to believe that the message of Islam was pointless. In the long run, people were united and inspired by the message of Islam. Even more than a millennium has passed. Look at Malcolm X and his view of Islam right before his converted. What inspired him to become a Muslim?

Peace.
Shi3i4lyf~

[placid]

Hi Shi,

I have been quite busy but I would like to comment further,

However, if it is to be a battle with 'swords,' --- we might as well leave it with my first comments about Muhammad.

However, O have a dull ballpoint pen, which is modernized to a keyboard.

And one other thing I use is the Word of God, --- and a verse in Hebrews 4 says this:

12. For the word of God is living and powerful, and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the division of soul and spirit,
and of joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

[Reshad]

Shi3i4lyfYouTube, on 08 August 2011 - 09:06 AM, said:

Salam Alaykum
Video on Youtube. Recommended.
Please share your views. I would love to see non-Muslim views of
these quotes.

Thank you!

Here is the link:

I would just like to point out the fact that i have been surscribed tto you and youtube! nice to meat you here !

[Shi3i4lyfYouTube]

Reshad, on 22 August 2011 - 10:08 PM, said:

I would just like to point out the fact that i have been surscribed tto you and youtube! nice to meat you here !

It's an honour for me, brother
JazakAllah khair

[sloth]

titumir, on 10 August 2011 - 02:55 PM, said:

The views will not be pretty. Non Muslims believe that our Prophet(PBUH) was a violent terrorist who forced people to convert to Islam by the sword, and that is why Islam was/is as successful as it is. They get taught this in their churches and temples and synagogues.

This is true. I have been taught this as well. However I do not surrender to brainwash and decided to look into it for myself,
and now, actually today, I have converted to Islam im now a muslim =) ALHAMDULILLAH!

May Allah (swt) reward you all who supported me.

[ßÑíã]

JazakAllah for the above video brother, great work!, may Allah Almighty inspire you further =)

[ßÑíã]

placid, on 17 August 2011 - 07:30 AM, said:

And one other thing I use is the Word of God, --- and a verse in Hebrews 4 says this:

12. For the word of God is living and powerful, and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the division of soul and spirit,
and of joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

The moral of the above verse is correct, however i get the feeling that you're using it against us. The two-edged sword that belonged to Ali - Son of Abu Talib , is a sword that was and will only be used for justice. The owners that it was passed down to from Ali (including himself) were men that contained the most similar characteristics to Mohammed , out of all mankind. They are his successors, protectors of the message of God The All-Just, and also a link to the Apostle himself. In conclusion: Thulfiqar (the two-edged sword) was only used in accordance to the word of God Almighty.

Edited by ßÑíã, 23 August 2011 - 11:06 AM.

[s.fatima]

كريم, on 23 August 2011 - 10:59 AM, said:

The moral of the above verse is correct, however i get the feeling that you're using it against us. The two-edged sword that belonged to Ali - Son of Abu Talib , is a sword that was and will only be used for justice. The owners that it was passed down to from Ali (including himself) were men that contained the most similar characteristics to Mohammed , out of all mankind. They are his successors, protectors of the message of God The All-Just, and also a link to the Apostle himself. In conclusion: Thulfiqar (the two-edged sword) was only used in accordance to the word of God Almighty.

Well explained.

[ßÑíã]

s.fatima, on 23 August 2011 - 07:52 PM, said:

Well explained.

Thank you =).

[Jay]

Most of the negative imagery of our Prophet sourced by our enemies comes from Sunni Ahadith (blatant fabrications from the Ummayads). It's sad that Shi'ism isn't tapped much by non-Muslim criticism, we would have a stronger voice. Hopefully it'll get noticed more in the future.

[HellHound]

Jay, on 24 August 2011 - 11:09 PM, said:

Most of the negative imagery of our Prophet sourced by our enemies comes from Sunni Ahadith (blatant fabrications from the Ummayads). It's sad that Shi'ism isn't tapped much by non-Muslim criticism, we would have a stronger voice. Hopefully it'll get noticed more in the future.

There's a reason that the opposition keeps claiming the BS about Prophet Muhammad to be from "Mainstream" aka Sunni Islam... You are a 101% correct.

If the Jews and Christians learn more about Aal-e-Muhammad from the Shia perspective, there would be A LOT more positive views about the Prophet .
Also, Son of Placid, I read that you defend Islam on other forums. Thank you. I will remember you in my Salatul Layl tonight Inshallah.