47 replies to this topic

[slave.ofAllah]

What a blessing, I 'think' I may have arranged my first mut'ah contract, but since I don't know exactly the specifics please someone guide me in these circumstances. The girl's father is muslim, however she declares herself to be Christian(I think her parents are separated and she lives with her mother who is Christian, far away from her father). She is willing to do the contract.
Do we have to make the contract if we are just going to sit alone in a private place, park etc. or do you only do the Mut'ah when you are planning to definitely 'touch' the other person?
Also, Im pretty sure she has NEVER been married before but....she declares herself to be Christian, do I still have to get father's permission-provided she also doesn't live with him?
Do I need to fulfill any other obligations etc?

Edited by slave.ofAllah, 31 July 2011 - 11:04 AM.

[La fata illa Ali]

Morphed, on 31 July 2011 - 11:49 AM, said:

Have you considered stepping back and examining the precepts of a "religion" that sanctions thinly veiled allowances for prostitution under the guise of a "contract"?

Will you enter the terms of this contract on a hourly basis?

^ Shut up!


Im tired of this [Edited Out]!, Mutah is the sunnah u fool!


Brother slave.ofAllah, alhamdulilah, Allah (aj) has given you tawfeek to practice the sunnah!

Ignore this idiot above.

I am not a 100% sure but I think if she hasn't been married before then u need the father's permission. Also, do u do Taqleed??? I think only Fadhlulah says that you do not need the father's permission.

I believe Sistani may distinguish between a wholly indepedent girl and a girl dependent on her parents. Is this girl financially independent??? Or does she depend on her family for money?


Anyways good luck.

[TheASF]

i always wondered what this term, obligatory precaution, meant cuz it seemed like an oxymoron to me so heres syed sistanis fatwa for it:

If an A'lam Mujtahid gives a fatwa on some matter, his follower cannot act in that matter on the fatwa of another Mujtahid. But if he does not give a fatwa, and expresses a precaution (Ihtiyat) that a man should act in such and such a manner, for example if he says that as a precautionary measure, in the first and second Rak'at of the namaz he should read a complete Surah after the Surah of "Hamd", the follower may either act on this precaution, which is called obligatory precaution (Ihtiyat Wajib), or he may act on the fatwa of another Mujtahid who it is permissible to follow.
Hence, if he (the second Mujtahid) rules that only "Surah Hamd" is enough, he (the person offering prayers) may drop the second Surah. The position will be the same if the A'a lam Mujtahid expresses terms like Ta'mmul or Ishkal

So no matter which mujtahid you follow, all or most have called obligatory precaution on asking the father's permission so you could follow Ayatollah Fadhlallah's fatwa and not ask permission although its always better to go through with the parents. I mean say later on in the relationship you guys get serious and think of getting permanently married, you would have to tell your father you've been hiding this relationship from him or you would have to lie and say you never had a relationship. Either way you're in trouble, with the father in the former and with All-h in the latter. Also, I wouldn't want my daughter doing mut'ah behind my back so I would respect her father's right and position on wanting to know what goes on in his daughters' life.

Plus girls love it when you tell them how you respect their fathers rights

[La fata illa Ali]

SO SOLID SHIA, on 31 July 2011 - 12:38 PM, said:

^ is telling people to shut up and calling them fools the sunnah also You wasteman

kEEP YOUr tings inside your trousers fam and stop gettin excited.

Anyways  dude how old are you???

Not surprising coming from u. I know ur views on mutah.

[La fata illa Ali]

Mushu, on 31 July 2011 - 01:42 PM, said:

bruv come chatroom quickly

Call in the troops, Mushu is getting over powered!


hehehehehe

[89jghur32]

Morphed, on 31 July 2011 - 11:49 AM, said:

Have you considered stepping back and examining the precepts of a "religion" that sanctions thinly veiled allowances for prostitution under the guise of a "contract"?

Will you enter the terms of this contract on a hourly basis?

You can call any marriage prostitution then.  So, take your [Edited Out] elsewhere.

[ShiaMujahid]

"Do we have to make the contract if we are just going to sit alone in a private place, park etc. or do you only do the Mut'ah when you are planning to definitely 'touch' the other person?"


- i think you have to make the contract , even if you are just gonna hang out with her alone .
"Also, Im pretty sure she has NEVER been married before but....she declares herself to be Christian, do I still have to get father's permission-provided she also doesn't live with him?


-you don't need her father permission if she's independent ."refer to your marja"
"Do I need to fulfill any other obligations etc? "

-No.

and about la fata illa Ali   ""Im tired of this [Edited Out]!, Mutah is the sunnah u fool!"


Muta isn't Sunnah it's just permissible , the prophet didn't practice it or any Imam .

Edited by ShiaMujahid, 31 July 2011 - 03:54 PM.

[slave.ofAllah]

Morphed, on 31 July 2011 - 03:13 PM, said:

That doesn't make sense, al.

Are you not aware of the dangers of blind allegiance to an ancient theocratic code?

Ok I will admit I havn't looked into the issue of Mut'ah deep enough, but in the past every time I've ignorantly questioned the slightest ruling over a scholar i end up getting proven wrong, so if all the scholars have ruled it permissble there definetely is enough evidence for it to be permissible. Secondly, I don't really see the alternative.....I could possibly fast for as long as possible until I find a permanent wife but that could possibly take years, and that would possibly weaken my body like a twig. And NO our intention is not to have sexual intercourse or anything, just that way I can meet up with her in private places. I don't see where all the negativity came from, isn't this a good way to keep everything halal if you want to get to know somebody and not engage in a forbidden look or forbidden talk prior to ask for her hand in marriage.
You people must review the way you think. Im assuming you guys are all perfect in lowering your gaze, prefect in being patient in finding a wife. Masha'Allah
"Do not make haram the good things which Allah has made halal for you"

SO SOLID SHIA, on 31 July 2011 - 01:37 PM, said:

MUSHU easy now babes whass goin on

Yeah this guy is evidently a young kid who has no guidance right now otherwise he wouldn't be coming on shiachat to ask people.  I personally would suggest that he gets to know himself better. Do you even know what you're doing aswell la fata with your mutah extravaganza excitedness...its all good to crack jokes about mutah and what not because its such a taboo subject, but youths who don't even know their strengths and weaknesses should be helped differently first...this stuff can be addressed also.

Anyways im not najaf.org ...apparently they have all the answers to lifes problems

What's wrong with coming on shiachat to ask people? Isn't this place for asking questions?.....so if you find a slight objection with a matter which the jurists/ahadith deem permissble, but you don't deem it permissible IT SUDDENLY BECOMES FORBIDDEN TO TALK ABOUT?
Get to know myself better, how and why?

[La fata illa Ali]

ShiaMujahid, on 31 July 2011 - 03:22 PM, said:

Muta isn't Sunnah it's just permissible , the prophet didn't practice it or any Imam .

You have to be very careful as Allah (aj) sends his lanat on the liars. I dont have the hadith with me but I hope someone with knowledge answers this uneducated claim. Of course they practised mutah!!!!

[89jghur32]

The Prophet [s] did practice mut`ah.  Look up his marriage with Sayyida Maria [r].

[HellHound]

Morphed, on 31 July 2011 - 03:13 PM, said:

That doesn't make sense, al.

Are you not aware of the dangers of blind allegiance to an ancient theocratic code?

I've reported your post.
You are not welcome in the section meant SPECIFICALLY for SHIAS. Why are you coming into an Islamic forum and criticizing an Islamic practice? Quit throwing around big words and get the hell out. The brother came here for advice from SHIAS, and SHIAS only. So get the hell out.

[shoelace]

stay away of girls and  Mutah....if u are under 18.

concentrate on studies.

and if you dont you will regret in your future.

Edited by shoelace, 31 July 2011 - 11:46 PM.

[slave.ofAllah]

shoelace, on 31 July 2011 - 11:44 PM, said:

stay away of girls and  Mutah....if u are under 18.

concentrate on studies.

and if you dont you will regret in your future.

lol I really disagree with this post.
If at the age of 18 I was able to do Mut'ah im sure it would have prevented me from engaging in many other sorts of mischief AND YES EVEN HELP ME CONCENTRATE ON STUDIES. Im sure many brothers agree.

Legio Invicta, on 31 July 2011 - 11:13 PM, said:

I've reported your post.
You are not welcome in the section meant SPECIFICALLY for SHIAS. Why are you coming into an Islamic forum and criticizing an Islamic practice? Quit throwing around big words and get the hell out. The brother came here for advice from SHIAS, and SHIAS only. So get the hell out.

iv reported him to

Edited by slave.ofAllah, 01 August 2011 - 01:47 AM.

[Nader Zaveri]

ShiaMujahid, on 31 July 2011 - 03:22 PM, said:

Muta isn't Sunnah it's just permissible , the prophet didn't practice it or any Imam .

The Prophet (SAWAS) did practice it, and it isn't just permissible in our hadeeth it is said it is MustaHab (recommended) to do it, rather it is makrooh (disliked) not to do at least one mut`a in your life.

Here is a SaHeeH hadeeth that says mut`a is mustaHab. This is a great chain by the way.

Taken from Al-Mufeed's Risaalah Al-Mut`ah
  عن أبي القاسم جعفر بن محمد بن قولويه عن أبيه عن سعد بن عبد الله عن أحمد بن محمد بن عيسى عن ابن أبي عمير عن هشام بن سالم عن أبي عبد الله ع قال يستحب للرجل أن يتزوج المتعة و ما أحب للرجل منكم أن يخرج من الدنيا حتى يتزوج المتعة و لو مرة
Abee `Abd Allaah said: "It is mustahab for the man that he marries (in) mut`a.  And I do not love that a man from you leave the world until he marries (in) mut`a, even if it is once.

Source:

• Al-Mufeed, Risaalah Al-Mut`ah, pg. 7, hadeeth # 1

And Here is the SaHeeH hadeeth where it is said that the Prophet (SAWAS) practiced mut`a and it is makrooh not to do it once in your life:

وَ رَوَى بَكْرُ بْنُ مُحَمَّدٍ عَنْ أَبِي عَبْدِ اللَّهِ ع قَالَ سَأَلْتُهُ عَنِ الْمُتْعَةِ فَقَالَ إِنِّي لَأَكْرَهُ لِلرَّجُلِ الْمُسْلِمِ أَنْ يَخْرُجَ مِنَ الدُّنْيَا وَ قَدْ بَقِيَتْ عَلَيْهِ خَلَّةٌ مِنْ خِلَالِ رَسُولِ اللَّهِ ص لَمْ يَقْضِهَا
And it is narrated from Bakr bin Muhammad from Abee `Abd Allaah (عليه السلام) said, I asked him about mut`a. And he (عليه السلام) said: “Verily, it is makrooh for a Muslim man that he leaves from this world and there remains upon him a habit from the habits of the Messenger of Allaah (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم), which he has not fulfilled.”

Source:

• al-Sadooq, Man Laa YaHDuruh al-Faqeeh, vol. 3, pg. 463, hadeeth # 4602
  Grading:
  
• al-Majlisi's Father said this hadeeth is SaHeeH (Authentic)
  --> RawDah al-Muttaqqeen, vol. 8, pg. 498

The tareeq (path) from al-Sadooq to Bakr bin Muhammad is SaHeeH per al-Khoei in his Mu`jam Rijaal al-Hadeeth, vol. 3, pg. 356, person # 1866:
و طريق الصدوق إليه: محمد بن الحسن - رضي الله عنه - عن محمد بن الحسن الصفار، عن العباس بن معروف و أحمد بن إسحاق بن سعد و إبراهيم بن هاشم، عن بكر بن محمد الأزدي و الطريق صحيح.

Edited by Nader Zaveri, 01 August 2011 - 02:07 AM.

[14infallibles]

slave.ofAllah, on 31 July 2011 - 03:49 PM, said:

Ok I will admit I havn't looked into the issue of Mut'ah deep enough, but in the past every time I've ignorantly questioned the slightest ruling over a scholar i end up getting proven wrong, so if all the scholars have ruled it permissble there definetely is enough evidence for it to be permissible. Secondly, I don't really see the alternative.....I could possibly fast for as long as possible until I find a permanent wife but that could possibly take years, and that would possibly weaken my body like a twig. And NO our intention is not to have sexual intercourse or anything, just that way I can meet up with her in private places. I don't see where all the negativity came from, isn't this a good way to keep everything halal if you want to get to know somebody and not engage in a forbidden look or forbidden talk prior to ask for her hand in marriage.
You people must review the way you think. Im assuming you guys are all perfect in lowering your gaze, prefect in being patient in finding a wife. Masha'Allah
"Do not make haram the good things which Allah has made halal for you"

Mashallah good point. This is one of the good ways mut`ah can be used as well
wassalam

[ShiaMujahid]

LA fata ella Ali "You have to be very careful as Allah (aj) sends his lanat on the liars. I dont have the hadith with me but I hope someone with knowledge answers this uneducated claim. Of course they practised mutah!!!! "


- Liars? lol i could be mistaken , Grow up and learn the ethics of speech ,your semi-insult comments aren't needed.

"The Prophet [s] did practice mut`ah. Look up his marriage with Sayyida Maria [r]. "

- Sayyida Maria was the prophets jarriyah."as it is known among muslims "

"Nader Zaveri"

-personally  i don't believe these hadeeths but im gonna ask/read about it anyway.

[HellHound]

ShiaMujahid, on 01 August 2011 - 04:51 AM, said:

LA fata ella Ali "You have to be very careful as Allah (aj) sends his lanat on the liars. I dont have the hadith with me but I hope someone with knowledge answers this uneducated claim. Of course they practised mutah!!!! "


- Liars? lol i could be mistaken , Grow up and learn the ethics of speech ,your semi-insult comments aren't needed.

"The Prophet [s] did practice mut`ah. Look up his marriage with Sayyida Maria [r]. "

- Sayyida Maria was the prophets jarriyah."as it is known among muslims "

"Nader Zaveri"

-personally  i don't believe these hadeeths but im gonna ask/read about it anyway.

The highlighted part is just astounding. It doesn't matter what you "personally" choose to believe; you are obligated to follow ahadith which have been given sahih gradings by our scholars, not half-assed cherry-picking like "I don't believe such and such".

Next you're gonna tell me you don't believe that listening to music is a sin, and even the ahadith which talk about it?

What has the world come to seriously... We let our prejudices and societal influences take precedence over the religion dictated by the Ahlul Bayt .

Edited by Legio Invicta, 01 August 2011 - 05:07 AM.

[ShiaMujahid]

We do not have unanimous agreement on many so called   Saheeh Hadeeths between Shia scholars , and that's why i said i'll ASK/READ about it "refer to "my" Scholars"

and btw God gave us something  called  "aql "and im not afraid to use it .

Edited by ShiaMujahid, 01 August 2011 - 05:18 AM.

[slave.ofAllah]

Im trying to brainstorm the possibilities for one to reject Mut'ah using pure logic:
-one has perfect control over their nafs as a result of fasting and eating minimal amounts of food, and no longer seeks bodily desires
-one finds it normal to interact with the opposite sex already so no longer worries about doing it the "correct way"
-one continues patiently, praying to Allah(swt) for marriage in the future, and thus remains content

Come on 'aql definitely tells us there must be a way for those who cannot get married to interact with the other sex. There is a hadith where Imam Ali(as) says if 'Umar never banned mut'ah there would have never been any adultery(something along those lines insha'Allah someone can get the actually hadith)

So those who claim logic/reason/'aql must fit into one of the above categories...

Edited by slave.ofAllah, 01 August 2011 - 05:34 AM.

[ShiaMujahid]

*sigh* we have no dissagreement that mutah is  Halal , The discussion went abit off topic "did the prophet and the imams practice it "

- you on the other hand by all means do what God made permissible for you.

[Nader Zaveri]

ShiaMujahid, on 01 August 2011 - 04:51 AM, said:

"Nader Zaveri"
-personally  i don't believe these hadeeths but im gonna ask/read about it anyway.

Do not think that the Hadeeth of the Prophet doing mut`a is just one, actually there are many many hadeeth that says that the Prophet practiced mut`a. And no scholars, who know `ilm al-hadeeth,  would doubt the authenticity of the two hadeeth I have provided.

slave.ofAllah, on 01 August 2011 - 05:31 AM, said:

Come on 'aql definitely tells us there must be a way for those who cannot get married to interact with the other sex. There is a hadith where Imam Ali(as) says if 'Umar never banned mut'ah there would have never been any adultery(something along those lines insha'Allah someone can get the actually hadith)

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From `Abd Allaah bin Sulaymaan said, I heard Abaa Ja`far, and he said that `Alee (Úáíå ÇáÓáÇã) said: “If it were not for what Banee al-KhaTTaab predated me with, none would do zinaa except wretched”

Source:

• al-Kulayni, al-Kaafi, vol. 5, pg. 448, hadeeth # 2
  Grading:
  
• al-Majlisi said this hadeeth is Majhool (Unknown)
  --> Mir'aat al-`Uqool, vol. 20, pg. 227

[Hassan kachal]

Legio Invicta, on 01 August 2011 - 05:05 AM, said:

The highlighted part is just astounding. It doesn't matter what you "personally" choose to believe; you are obligated to follow ahadith which have been given sahih gradings by our scholars, not half-assed cherry-picking like "I don't believe such and such".

Next you're gonna tell me you don't believe that listening to music is a sin, and even the ahadith which talk about it?

What has the world come to seriously... We let our prejudices and societal influences take precedence over the religion dictated by the Ahlul Bayt .

+1.

Also in Wisael as Shia, there is a riwayat that states that Imam Ali married a lady from kufa in Zawaj Mutah.

Too many akhis innovating in da deen blad, tryna make Islam a sunni ting.