16 replies to this topic

[ruru]

salamu alaykom.

if mut3a results in the woman falling pregnant is it considered haram ?
and her parents not knowing she has done mut3a ..

also, how could you deal with  a situation like this ?



i have asked a few religious people and they have told me it isn't haram considering you are islamically married temporarily but  i would really like some more information .


i appreciate any feedback
thanks a lot.

Salam

[Umm Sakina]

ruru, on 17 May 2011 - 05:13 AM, said:

salamu alaykom.

if mut3a results in the woman falling pregnant is it considered haram ?
and her parents not knowing she has done mut3a ..

also, how could you deal with  a situation like this ?



i have asked a few religious people and they have told me it isn't haram considering you are islamically married temporarily but  i would really like some more information .


i appreciate any feedback
thanks a lot.

Salam

[ruru]

^^ ?

[Maryammm]

salam, most marjas say that parental permission is required for a virgin girl(previously never been married) to engage in mut3a and that without that permission the mut3a wouldn't be valid. Sayed Fadhlallah(ra) only allows mut3a without parental permission for virgins, if there is no act that will take place that could cause future problems(i.e. full sexual intercourse or actions that would brake the hymen, or actions that would result in emotional relationship problems) This fatwa was in response to a young couple who wished to get married after university, but during the 3 years in university they did not wish to commit haram and were unable to get parental permission due to an understandable stigma with mut3a. If the girl is a divorcee or widow, then there is no need for parental permission for mut3a. Basically, if the mut3a was valid then the child is considered legitimate and should be treated as such inshallah. I would suggest that the father of the child should then contract a permanent marriage with the girl, in order to save her from the misunderstandings of the muslim society, however if she is non muslim, then a longer term mut3a would suffice until inshallah she may become convinced of Islam inshallah.

Salams and du'as  

[ruru]

Maryammm, on 17 May 2011 - 05:51 AM, said:

salam, most marjas say that parental permission is required for a virgin girl(previously never been married) to engage in mut3a and that without that permission the mut3a wouldn't be valid. Sayed Fadhlallah(ra) only allows mut3a without parental permission for virgins, if there is no act that will take place that could cause future problems(i.e. full sexual intercourse or actions that would brake the hymen, or actions that would result in emotional relationship problems) This fatwa was in response to a young couple who wished to get married after university, but during the 3 years in university they did not wish to commit haram and were unable to get parental permission due to an understandable stigma with mut3a. If the girl is a divorcee or widow, then there is no need for parental permission for mut3a. Basically, if the mut3a was valid then the child is considered legitimate and should be treated as such inshallah. I would suggest that the father of the child should then contract a permanent marriage with the girl, in order to save her from the misunderstandings of the muslim society, however if she is non muslim, then a longer term mut3a would suffice until inshallah she may become convinced of Islam inshallah.

Salams and du'as  

thankyou!

what if a younger women wasn't a widow, divorced, or a virgin ?

does a non virgin due to her past , need parental permission as well ?  considering her father obviously wouldn't know of the sin she had  committed in the past ?

Also what is your thought of how she would explain to her parents about the pregnancy ?sa

salam and thankyou for your help

[Zanadine]

ruru, on 17 May 2011 - 05:13 AM, said:

salamu alaykom.

if mut3a results in the woman falling pregnant is it considered haram ?
and her parents not knowing she has done mut3a ..

also, how could you deal with  a situation like this ?



i have asked a few religious people and they have told me it isn't haram considering you are islamically married temporarily but  i would really like some more information .


i appreciate any feedback
thanks a lot.

Salam

Salaam un aliakum,

If you were a virgin.  you were supposed to get permission from father or your guardian.  If your totally an independant type financially and do not take permission from your parents or guardian due to ideological differences ..  then it might be a different case here.   but keeping them clueless about this relationship might not be a good idea.

at what stage is your pregnancy?  have you missed your period?  some marjas allow abortion in very early stages.  I have heard that Ayatollah Fadlala allows allows abortion in  early stages of pregnancy for extreme cases as permissable.  ( i heard not sure).  but if its true.. then you must act fast before the heart beat starts and it converts into fetus.  

the problem is that you and your partner in Muta have been reckless in regards to birth control.   Is the boy sunni or Shia?

Zanadine.

[ruru]

Zanadine, on 17 May 2011 - 06:40 AM, said:

Salaam un aliakum,

If you were a virgin.  you were supposed to get permission from father or your guardian.  If your totally an independant type financially and do not take permission from your parents or guardian due to ideological differences ..  then it might be a different case here.   but keeping them clueless about this relationship might not be a good idea.

at what stage is your pregnancy?  have you missed your period?  some marjas allow abortion in very early stages.  I have heard that Ayatollah Fadlala allows allows abortion in  early stages of pregnancy for extreme cases as permissable.  ( i heard not sure).  but if its true.. then you must act fast before the heart beat starts and it converts into fetus.  

the problem is that you and your partner in Muta have been reckless in regards to birth control.   Is the boy sunni or Shia?

Zanadine.

salam,
same question goes to you , what if she is a non virgin ?

a stage where she is not sure if pregnant or not and if she would not want to have an abortion, would it be haram ? and how could you break this type of news to family ?

the boy is a shiah of course.

thankyou so much for your feedback once again ..

[Zanadine]

ruru, on 17 May 2011 - 06:14 AM, said:

thankyou!

what if a younger women wasn't a widow, divorced, or a virgin ?

does a non virgin due to her past , need parental permission as well ?  considering her father obviously wouldn't know of the sin she had  committed in the past ?

Also what is your thought of how she would explain to her parents about the pregnancy ?sa

salam and thankyou for your help

the major problem with parents are that they don't understand many things.. specially living in the west ...  the children also should get them parents involved .. and the parents should also be understanding that the daughter/ son has biological needs... and there is a halaal option called "muta"  fixed time marriage/ temp marriage/ or contract marriage.  

I have a daughter .. I think about this and i try to keep myself very much involved and always on the look out for a nice boy for my daughter for nikah or muta.  as long as i check out the boy as being a good shia person.

[ruru]

Zanadine, on 17 May 2011 - 06:45 AM, said:

the major problem with parents are that they don't understand many things.. specially living in the west ...  the children also should get them parents involved .. and the parents should also be understanding that the daughter/ son has biological needs... and there is a halaal option called "muta"  fixed time marriage/ temp marriage/ or contract marriage.  

I have a daughter .. I think about this and i try to keep myself very much involved and always on the look out for a nice boy for my daughter for nikah or muta.  as long as i check out the boy as being a good shia person.

very true!!
parents are of course protective of their daughters and don't like the sound of them having physical contact with males until marriage.
Also "the family name reputation" bring a lot of stress to families. that is why i would like some feedback and thoughts/ideas on how to handle a situation like this with parents ?


thankyou

[Irishman]

ruru, on 17 May 2011 - 06:44 AM, said:

salam,
same question goes to you , what if she is a non virgin ?

a stage where she is not sure if pregnant or not and if she would not want to have an abortion, would it be haram ? and how could you break this type of news to family ?

the boy is a shiah of course.

thankyou so much for your feedback once again ..

From your next post, it looks like the lady in question is living in the West?. If so, she should go to a Pharmacy/Drugstore and buy a home test pregnancy kit. Very easy to use and generally very accurate. If its says she is pregnant, consult with a GP asap to confirm it ( GP will keep information private ). Finding out if she is pregnant is most important step at this point.

Edited by Irishman, 17 May 2011 - 06:59 AM.

[macisaac]

ruru, on 17 May 2011 - 06:44 AM, said:

same question goes to you , what if she is a non virgin ?

She would only be considered a non-virgin for this purpose if her previous relationship had been through a halal marriage, not fornication.

[Maryammm]

ruru, on 17 May 2011 - 06:44 AM, said:

salam,
same question goes to you , what if she is a non virgin ?

a stage where she is not sure if pregnant or not and if she would not want to have an abortion, would it be haram ? and how could you break this type of news to family ?

the boy is a shiah of course.

thankyou so much for your feedback once again ..

Salam, I have not found a fatwa on sayed fadhlallah's website allowing abortion, however you can't follow his rulings unless you followed him whilst he was still alive... So from what I can tell you can't take his taqlid now anyway...
  Morally speaking it seems highly unfair to punish an unborn child for fear of embarrassment, just as the Qur'an tells us not to kill our daughters for fear of poverty. The ruling that I have mostly heard of amongst jurists is that abortion is only allowed in cases where the mother's health is at such a huge risk that it endangers her life, we have no way of knowing when a child's soul is breathed into them and regardless. depriving a child of the possibilty of fulfillment of life could be just as bad as taking it once the soul has been placed within them.
   I think the best thing to do is to try and be brave and approach the girl's parents, emploring them for forgivness and understanding, and ask for their help. Try and encourage the father of the child to take his responsibility and marry the mother permanently, unless as I stated previously she is ahlul kitab-in which case a more long term mut3a should be contracted with her with a view to encouraging her towards Islam and thus eventually making nikkah(permanent marriage) halal. It is a very sensitive subject and a difficult one to approach one's Muslim parents with, and possibly if you could get the father of the child on board first and then get him to come with his parents (assuming his parents and the girls are Muslim) to approach the girl's parents in order to officially propose for a permanent marriage(not necessarily stating that the reasons for marriage as pregnancy, only the mother and father of the unborn child need to know about that) If the girl's parents refuse, then she has a right to disobey them and go ahead and marry the father of her child, hopefully with the support of his parents and family at least inshallah, and within time, the forgivness and understanding of her parents inshallah.
Salams and du3as and may this matter be resolved to the best of conclusions inshallah  

[diracdeltafunc]

Zanadine, on 17 May 2011 - 06:40 AM, said:

Salaam un aliakum,

If you were a virgin.  you were supposed to get permission from father or your guardian.  If your totally an independant type financially and do not take permission from your parents or guardian due to ideological differences ..  then it might be a different case here.   but keeping them clueless about this relationship might not be a good idea.

at what stage is your pregnancy?  have you missed your period?  some marjas allow abortion in very early stages.  I have heard that Ayatollah Fadlala allows allows abortion in  early stages of pregnancy for extreme cases as permissable.  ( i heard not sure).  but if its true.. then you must act fast before the heart beat starts and it converts into fetus.  

the problem is that you and your partner in Muta have been reckless in regards to birth control.   Is the boy sunni or Shia?

Zanadine.

That is highly rude of you to ask that. You def owe her an apology.

[John Al-Ameli]

I understand your question, even if a woman was a widow or divorced.

For exampl, in Lebanon, she would be looked at weirdly in the society.

Although its normal and halal, but you each society look at things differently.

Just be careful

[macisaac]

Casper, on 19 May 2011 - 08:09 PM, said:

First time I've ever heard that, brother do you have a source for this?

It's the view of Sayyid Sistani.  From his Minhaj as-Saliheen:

مسألة 70 : المقصود بالبكر ـ هنا ـ من لم يدخل بها زوجها، فمن تزوجت ومات عنها زوجها أو طلقها قبل ان يدخل بها فهي بكر، وكذا من
ذهبت بكارتها بغير الوطء من وثبة أو نحوها، واما ان ذهبت بالزنا أو بالوطء شبهة فهي بمنزلة البكر على الاظهر، واما من دخل بها زوجها فهي ثيبة وان لم يفتض بكارتها على الاصح.

Issue 70: The meaning of virgin here is one whose husband has not entered in her (i.e. had sexual intercourse with her).  So whoever was married and her husband died with her or divorced her prior to entering her, then she is a virgin.  And likewise is whoever's virginity left without intercourse from jumping and the like.  And as to what went out by fornication or by doubtful intercourse, then she is of the status of the virgin upon the most apparent.  And as to someone whose husband entered her then she is a non-virgin even if her virginity was not reached (?) upon the most correct.



(in the above, it looks like "virginity" is being equated with the hymen being intact in some cases.)

[Calm]

macisaac, on 19 May 2011 - 08:27 PM, said:

It's the view of Sayyid Sistani.  From his Minhaj as-Saliheen:

مسألة 70 : المقصود بالبكر ـ هنا ـ من لم يدخل بها زوجها، فمن تزوجت ومات عنها زوجها أو طلقها قبل ان يدخل بها فهي بكر، وكذا من
ذهبت بكارتها بغير الوطء من وثبة أو نحوها، واما ان ذهبت بالزنا أو بالوطء شبهة فهي بمنزلة البكر على الاظهر، واما من دخل بها زوجها فهي ثيبة وان لم يفتض بكارتها على الاصح.

Issue 70: The meaning of virgin here is one whose husband has not entered in her (i.e. had sexual intercourse with her).  So whoever was married and her husband died with her or divorced her prior to entering her, then she is a virgin.  And likewise is whoever's virginity left without intercourse from jumping and the like.  And as to what went out by fornication or by doubtful intercourse, then she is of the status of the virgin upon the most apparent.  And as to someone whose husband entered her then she is a non-virgin even if her virginity was not reached (?) upon the most apparent.

The correct translation -of the part in red- would be:  "Even if she her virginity* was not deflowered".

*virginity: referring to the physical virginity/hymen.

Edited by Calm, 19 May 2011 - 10:22 PM.

[Zanadine]

hasnain721, on 17 May 2011 - 09:37 AM, said:

That is highly rude of you to ask that. You def owe her an apology.

What was so rude about what i asked?

Maryammm, on 17 May 2011 - 09:19 AM, said:

Salam, I have not found a fatwa on sayed fadhlallah's website allowing abortion, however you can't follow his rulings unless you followed him whilst he was still alive... So from what I can tell you can't take his taqlid now anyway...
  Morally speaking it seems highly unfair to punish an unborn child for fear of embarrassment, just as the Qur'an tells us not to kill our daughters for fear of poverty. The ruling that I have mostly heard of amongst jurists is that abortion is only allowed in cases where the mother's health is at such a huge risk that it endangers her life, we have no way of knowing when a child's soul is breathed into them and regardless. depriving a child of the possibilty of fulfillment of life could be just as bad as taking it once the soul has been placed within them.
   I think the best thing to do is to try and be brave and approach the girl's parents, emploring them for forgivness and understanding, and ask for their help. Try and encourage the father of the child to take his responsibility and marry the mother permanently, unless as I stated previously she is ahlul kitab-in which case a more long term mut3a should be contracted with her with a view to encouraging her towards Islam and thus eventually making nikkah(permanent marriage) halal. It is a very sensitive subject and a difficult one to approach one's Muslim parents with, and possibly if you could get the father of the child on board first and then get him to come with his parents (assuming his parents and the girls are Muslim) to approach the girl's parents in order to officially propose for a permanent marriage(not necessarily stating that the reasons for marriage as pregnancy, only the mother and father of the unborn child need to know about that) If the girl's parents refuse, then she has a right to disobey them and go ahead and marry the father of her child, hopefully with the support of his parents and family at least inshallah, and within time, the forgivness and understanding of her parents inshallah.
Salams and du3as and may this matter be resolved to the best of conclusions inshallah  

but this kind of embarrassment sets a bad example.  I like Fadlala.. he was a bit radical in some of his fatwas.  Do you have the fawa.. may i see it/.