20 replies to this topic

[Dar'ul_Islam]

اللهم صل على محمد وآله الطاهرين

This is simply a message to all Mu’mineen and Mu’minaat who participate in the Sunni-Shi`ah Dialogue of the forum. This specific forum used to be filled with good, intellectual conversations that would actually lead somewhere. Unfortunately many of those members have moved on (you know…to real life…). Recently, and by that I mean for several months, I’m all I’m seeing from my Shi’i Brothers and Sisters is “attacking” Sunnism and always trying to go prove something to Sunnis through use of their literature. Forgive me, but this is futile. These topics and posts don’t go anywhere. It is not our job to try to go and try to convert everyone who’s Sunni and happens to join the forum. Honestly, I believe it is more of a deterrent.

Please, no more topics where are trying to prove something to someone. We honestly shouldn’t be the ones starting topics in this section. If a Sunni brother or sister happens to have a question, then we will answer it – correctly – Insha’Allah. If they try to disprove us using our literature, we will respond to them, insha’Allah. Our faith and belief in Wilayah, Imamah, that set apart from others is not based in Sunnism being wrong. This faith stands on its own from its pillars – the Ahlulbayt .

I think it is unfortunate that many Mu’mineen’s imaan is based in Sunnism being wrong (honestly no offense intended to Sunnis) than just Shi’ah Islam being correct. We need to move on from this and know our own books, beliefs, history, fiqh. The liveliest and most active part of the forums should be the Shi’ah specific ones…not this one. If a curious non-Shi`ah comes in wanting to learn, insha’Allah we will help guide him to truth. If ignorant ones wander in here exposing their manifest traits, we will kindly direct him towards the door while answering his questions from the correct source (i.e. our books) because those are the books that really matter. If a Sunni, or perhaps those in between seeking haqq, want to know if we can show them things from Sunni books that push in the direction of the Imami creed, we will show them. However, they are not the basis of our creed or our imaan or why we are Shi’ah.

So please, Ya Ayyuha al-Adheena Aamanoo, let this be a place to respond to questions and inquiries from others and to explain our creed to them.

الحمد لله رب العالمين وصلى الله على سيدنا محمد وعلى اهل بيته المعصومين والمهديين

Edited by Dar'ul_Islam, 06 June 2011 - 03:14 PM.

[maqnouteh]

salam

True say that..In fact engaging in debates in such a manner only helps breed arrogance in our selves which shall in the end destroy one's Iman (May Allah protect us from this)

ws

اللهم صل على محمد وآله الطاهرين

Edited by maqnouteh, 13 May 2011 - 04:14 AM.

[akf]

I agree wholeheartedly, which is why I haven't been participating in this forum for a while. The only thing I want to add is that if you have no knowledge of a topic, don't try to debate about it. You'll just make us look ignorant.

This should be stickied.

Edited by akf, 13 May 2011 - 06:05 AM.

[murtaza2011]

Agreed!

[Your-Best-Friend]

Dar'ul_Islam,
Please remove "ALIF" from Alhamdulillaah (from arabic text at the bottom of your post).

[Dar'ul_Islam]

Dar, on 13 May 2011 - 03:13 AM, said:

ÇáÍãÏ ááå ÑÈ ÇáÚÇáãíä æÕáì Çááå Úáì ÓíÏäÇ ãÍãÏ æÚáì Çåá ÈíÊå ÇáãÚÕæãíä æÇáãåÏííä

Well, It won't let me edit. So I'll quote and edit =]

[macisaac]

ÚÏÉ ãä ÃÕÍÇÈäÇ¡ Úä ÃÍãÏ Èä ãÍãÏ¡ Úä ÇÈä ÝÖÇá¡ Úä Úáí Èä ÚÞÈÉ¡ Úä ÃÈíå ÞÇá: ÓãÚÊ ÃÈÇ ÚÈÏÇááå Úáíå ÇáÓáÇã íÞæá: ÇÌÚáæÇ ÃãÑßã ááå¡ æáÇ ÊÌÚáæå ááäÇÓ ÝÅäå ãÇ ßÇä ááå Ýåæ ááå¡ æãÇ ßÇä ááäÇÓ ÝáÇ íÕÚÏ Åáì Çááå¡ æáÇ ÊÎÇÕãæÇ ÇáäÇÓ áÏíäßã ÝÅä ÇáãÎÇÕãÉ ããÑÖÉ ááÞáÈ¡ Åä Çááå ÊÚÇáì ÞÇá áäÈíå Õáì Çááå Úáíå æÂáå: " Åäß áÇ ÊåÏí ãä ÃÍÈÈÊ æáßä Çááå íåÏí ãä íÔÇÁ " æÞÇá: " ÃÝÃäÊ ÊßÑå ÇáäÇÓ ÍÊì íßæäæÇ ãÄãäíä " ÐÑæÇ ÇáäÇÓ ÝÅä ÇáäÇÓ ÃÎÐæÇ Úä ÇáäÇÓ æÅäßã ÃÎÐÊã Úä ÑÓæá Çááå Õáì Çááå Úáíå æÂáå¡ Åäí ÓãÚÊ ÃÈí Úáíå ÇáÓáÇã íÞæá: Åä Çááå ÚÒæÌá ÅÐÇ ßÊÈ Úáì ÚÈÏ Ãä íÏÎá Ýí åÐÇ ÇáÇãÑ ßÇä ÃÓÑÚ Åáíå ãä ÇáØíÑ Åáì æßÑå.

A number of our companions from Ahmad b. Muhammad from ibn Faddal from Ali b. ‘Uqba from his father.  He said: I heard Abu ‘Abdallah (Úáíå ÇáÓáÇã) saying: Make your affair for Allah and do not make it for the people. Whatever is for Allah then it is for Allah. And whatever is for people will not ascend to Allah.  Do not quarrel with the people about your religion because quarreling sickens the heart.  Allah ÚÒæÌá said to His Prophet Õáì Çááå Úáíå æÂáå  “Verily you do not guide whomever you love, but Allah guides whomever He wants” (28:56). “Would you compel the people until they be believers?" (10:99). Leave the people alone because the people have taken from people and you have taken from the Messenger of AllahÕáì Çááå Úáíå æÂáå  .  I heard my father (Úáíå ÇáÓáÇã) saying, "When Allah ÚÒæÌá writes for a servant to enter in this affair he will be faster to it than the bird to its nest."  (al-Kafi)

[Righteous]

SubhanAllah....love your post.....our job here is to answer and reach out not to diss people.....which i have been guilty of as well.

Will try to abide by it my brother.

[Dar'ul_Islam]

Thank you.

I advise all Mu'mineen and Mu'minaat to cease participating in current topics here that of this type and leave them for they are not doing anything productive at all.

[bi_ithnillaah]

We really need to get a like button on SC!

Good reminder for all of us brother. I also think this should be stickied~

[Abdaal]

Why don't you become a moderator  for this section ?

[IloveImamHussain]

Abdaal, on 15 May 2011 - 06:21 PM, said:

Why don't you become a moderator  for this section ?

Moderating the Shia-Sunni forum is a full time job - 24 hours a day, seven days a week.

It needs a team of dedicated, like-minded moderators, not just one.

[Abdaal]

He wants to shape shiachat to a new direction. Therefore, he should be delegated with this responsibility.

[asharp]

macisaac, on 13 May 2011 - 06:44 AM, said:

ÚÏÉ ãä ÃÕÍÇÈäÇ¡ Úä ÃÍãÏ Èä ãÍãÏ¡ Úä ÇÈä ÝÖÇá¡ Úä Úáí Èä ÚÞÈÉ¡ Úä ÃÈíå ÞÇá: ÓãÚÊ ÃÈÇ ÚÈÏÇááå Úáíå ÇáÓáÇã íÞæá: ÇÌÚáæÇ ÃãÑßã ááå¡ æáÇ ÊÌÚáæå ááäÇÓ ÝÅäå ãÇ ßÇä ááå Ýåæ ááå¡ æãÇ ßÇä ááäÇÓ ÝáÇ íÕÚÏ Åáì Çááå¡ æáÇ ÊÎÇÕãæÇ ÇáäÇÓ áÏíäßã ÝÅä ÇáãÎÇÕãÉ ããÑÖÉ ááÞáÈ¡ Åä Çááå ÊÚÇáì ÞÇá áäÈíå Õáì Çááå Úáíå æÂáå: " Åäß áÇ ÊåÏí ãä ÃÍÈÈÊ æáßä Çááå íåÏí ãä íÔÇÁ " æÞÇá: " ÃÝÃäÊ ÊßÑå ÇáäÇÓ ÍÊì íßæäæÇ ãÄãäíä " ÐÑæÇ ÇáäÇÓ ÝÅä ÇáäÇÓ ÃÎÐæÇ Úä ÇáäÇÓ æÅäßã ÃÎÐÊã Úä ÑÓæá Çááå Õáì Çááå Úáíå æÂáå¡ Åäí ÓãÚÊ ÃÈí Úáíå ÇáÓáÇã íÞæá: Åä Çááå ÚÒæÌá ÅÐÇ ßÊÈ Úáì ÚÈÏ Ãä íÏÎá Ýí åÐÇ ÇáÇãÑ ßÇä ÃÓÑÚ Åáíå ãä ÇáØíÑ Åáì æßÑå.

A number of our companions from Ahmad b. Muhammad from ibn Faddal from Ali b. ‘Uqba from his father.  He said: I heard Abu ‘Abdallah (Úáíå ÇáÓáÇã) saying: Make your affair for Allah and do not make it for the people. Whatever is for Allah then it is for Allah. And whatever is for people will not ascend to Allah.  Do not quarrel with the people about your religion because quarreling sickens the heart.  Allah ÚÒæÌá said to His Prophet Õáì Çááå Úáíå æÂáå  “Verily you do not guide whomever you love, but Allah guides whomever He wants” (28:56). “Would you compel the people until they be believers?" (10:99). Leave the people alone because the people have taken from people and you have taken from the Messenger of AllahÕáì Çááå Úáíå æÂáå  .  I heard my father (Úáíå ÇáÓáÇã) saying, "When Allah ÚÒæÌá writes for a servant to enter in this affair he will be faster to it than the bird to its nest."  (al-Kafi)

+1

[hameedeh]

Thank you, Br. Dar'ul_Islam, for the excellent reminder. I have seen people, even a moderator, use language including the word stupid when answering a non-Shia. We need to be respectful to all people who come to ShiaChat, not insulting.

[Wahhabism4All]

Dar, on 13 May 2011 - 03:13 AM, said:

This is simply a message to all Mu’mineen and Mu’minaat who participate in the Sunni-Shi`ah Dialogue of the forum. This specific forum used to be filled with good, intellectual conversations that would actually lead somewhere. Unfortunately many of those members have moved on (you know…to real life…). Recently, and by that I mean for several months, I’m all I’m seeing from my Shi’i Brothers and Sisters is “attacking” Sunnism and always trying to go prove something to Sunnis through use of their literature. Forgive me, but this is futile. These topics and posts don’t go anywhere. It is not our job to try to go and try to convert everyone who’s Sunni and happens to join the forum. Honestly, I believe it is more of a deterrent.

If a curious non-Shi`ah comes in wanting to learn, insha’Allah we will help guide him to truth. If ignorant ones wander in here exposing their manifest traits, we will kindly direct him towards the door while answering his questions from the correct source (i.e. our books) because those are the books that really matter. If a Sunni, or perhaps those in between seeking haqq, want to know if we can show them things from Sunni books that push in the direction of the Imami creed, we will show them. However, they are not the basis of our creed or our imaan or why we are Shi’ah.

As a Sunni, I have spent more than a year from participating on this website since I originally joined, but I logged in once again after reading your post. I am replying to confront your hypocrisy. I recall when I first joined, you were one of the most active members in answering my questions of Shiism (only questions, I had no doubts in my beliefs). I specifically recall you telling me that you want me to reach "haqq" or the truth (Shiism in your view). The same words are being uttered by you years later about Sunnis finding haqq in Shiism. You were very helpful in sharing Shiite links and trying to explain Shiism to me. However, as soon as I started challenging Shiite beliefs with intelligence, you grew upset. You then private messaged me asking me why I had joined this website. It was clear, you were only accommodating when I had questions in your hopes of converting me to Shiism. Your accommodation ran out, as soon as you realized I was not a gullible person and hence you sent me that private message, in which disagreements followed.

Let no Sunni be in doubt that this user, 'Dar'ul_Islam', has his main objective of converting new Sunni members with questions in this forum. This will be most rewarding to him - teaching other's about 'haqq'. It looks like arrogance is still with him.

I would also like to thank ShiaChat. Before I had joined this website, I was very unaware of Shiite beliefs and didn't know of the very strong differences between Ahl as-Sunnah and Shiism. Alhamdilillah, after having learned more of the Shiite beliefs, I understand how contrasting our views are.

Thank you Dar'ul_Islam, you have made me even more proud that I am following the true path - Ahl as-Sunnah.

[sa3sa3ah]

Dar, on 13 May 2011 - 03:13 AM, said:

Çááåã Õá Úáì ãÍãÏ æÂáå ÇáØÇåÑíä

This is simply a message to all Mu’mineen and Mu’minaat who participate in the Sunni-Shi`ah Dialogue of the forum. This specific forum used to be filled with good, intellectual conversations that would actually lead somewhere. Unfortunately many of those members have moved on (you know…to real life…). Recently, and by that I mean for several months, I’m all I’m seeing from my Shi’i Brothers and Sisters is “attacking” Sunnism and always trying to go prove something to Sunnis through use of their literature. Forgive me, but this is futile. These topics and posts don’t go anywhere. It is not our job to try to go and try to convert everyone who’s Sunni and happens to join the forum. Honestly, I believe it is more of a deterrent.

Please, no more topics where are trying to prove something to someone. We honestly shouldn’t be the ones starting topics in this section. If a Sunni brother or sister happens to have a question, then we will answer it – correctly – Insha’Allah. If they try to disprove us using our literature, we will respond to them, insha’Allah. Our faith and belief in Wilayah, Imamah, that set apart from others is not based in Sunnism being wrong. This faith stands on its own from its pillars – the Ahlulbayt .

I think it is unfortunate that many Mu’mineen’s imaan is based in Sunnism being wrong (honestly no offense intended to Sunnis) than just Shi’ah Islam being correct. We need to move on from this and know our own books, beliefs, history, fiqh. The liveliest and most active part of the forums should be the Shi’ah specific ones…not this one. If a curious non-Shi`ah comes in wanting to learn, insha’Allah we will help guide him to truth. If ignorant ones wander in here exposing their manifest traits, we will kindly direct him towards the door while answering his questions from the correct source (i.e. our books) because those are the books that really matter. If a Sunni, or perhaps those in between seeking haqq, want to know if we can show them things from Sunni books that push in the direction of the Imami creed, we will show them. However, they are not the basis of our creed or our imaan or why we are Shi’ah.

So please, Ya Ayyuha al-Adheena Aamanoo, let this be a place to respond to questions and inquiries from others and to explain our creed to them.

ÇáÍãÏ Çááå ÑÈ ÇáÚÇáãíä æÕáì Çááå Úáì ÓíÏäÇ ãÍãÏ æÚáì Çåá ÈíÊå ÇáãÚÕæãíä æÇáãåÏííä

Very nice and wise post BUT( and here it' a big "BUT"): The shia today are target of a huge propaganda by anti-shias where they invest billions and put all effort so that we are ridiculed and defamed and called kafir directly or indirectly .

Most active so-called sunnis here are people who think we should not exist in the first place  let alone have civilized discussion with us.

they quote weak sources to prove we are GHulat and Kafir and that we worship other than Allah.

Many people here don't consider us humans let alone Muslims and i don't want to cite names.

Even here then they don't shy away from saying we are followers of Ibn Saba (the cursed one) and this means we are Ghulat and Kafir even without them  being able to present a single proof .for it .

They are here on  A mission to distort tashayu and make it look like man-made madhab that has nothing to do with Islam.

I think a rule must be made where nobody : shia or sunni can present an argument that is not backed up by proof and references or links .

As for quoting Sunni sources then it's not futile at all but realistic and right because Sunni books are hujja on sunnis but our books and Hadiths are nothing for them. are you saying we must discuss with sunnis using our Hadiths ?? that would be

really unreasonable .

yes the purpose is not to convert people that's right! but haven't we got the right to defend ourselves . maybe it's peaceful here on shiachat compared to other forums and places but there's a world outside where our women are called prostitutes

where they are quoting their scholars like Al-alussi saying that shia women and wealth are Halal for sunnis . that  we must be killed because we are "Mushrik" and they even present corrupt Hadiths from their books (weak of course)

haven't we got the right to defend ourselves ??

yes we must stick to good manners but we must not keep silent !

We must be like Hazrat Ibn abbas(ra) in debates where he always wins because of his great proofs and using what is hujja for the people against them .

We are the victims here not the Salafis and many sunnis and if you act like a victim then you will always be one .

jazakallah khairan

tc

[Abdaal]

Justice4all, on 05 June 2011 - 04:59 AM, said:

As a Sunni, I have spent more than a year from participating on this website since I originally joined, but I logged in once again after reading your post. I am replying to confront your hypocrisy. I recall when I first joined, you were one of the most active members in answering my questions of Shiism (only questions, I had no doubts in my beliefs). I specifically recall you telling me that you want me to reach "haqq" or the truth (Shiism in your view). The same words are being uttered by you years later about Sunnis finding haqq in Shiism. You were very helpful in sharing Shiite links and trying to explain Shiism to me. However, as soon as I started challenging Shiite beliefs with intelligence, you grew upset. You then private messaged me asking me why I had joined this website. It was clear, you were only accommodating when I had questions in your hopes of converting me to Shiism. Your accommodation ran out, as soon as you realized I was not a gullible person and hence you sent me that private message, in which disagreements followed.

Let no Sunni be in doubt that this user, 'Dar'ul_Islam', has his main objective of converting new Sunni members with questions in this forum. This will be most rewarding to him - teaching other's about 'haqq'. It looks like arrogance is still with him.

I would also like to thank ShiaChat. Before I had joined this website, I was very unaware of Shiite beliefs and didn't know of the very strong differences between Ahl as-Sunnah and Shiism. Alhamdilillah, after having learned more of the Shiite beliefs, I understand how contrasting our views are.

Thank you Dar'ul_Islam, you have made me even more proud that I am following the true path - Ahl as-Sunnah.

I agree with your statement. However, there are so many 12r post lanat on the 3 calipahs even though the rules on this site say otherwise. Most of the times there post are not even edited.
I remember when Aliya was made a mod on shiachat, I was shocked. This sister used to insult Bibi Ayesha left and right. When I insulted her on kr-hcy she became offended.
On the contrary, I realized that she kept the forums clean for a couple of years. She did a much better job then Abdul Hujjah who lost his mod position.
I personally believe 'Dar'ul Islam' will do a better job as compared to the mods who are in power now.
Of course we have brother 'Inshallah' who protect Sunnis to the same level he protect the 12rs. However, this site needs a lot of dedication to keep it clean, so I can't blame him for not always being there.

sa3sa3ah, on 05 June 2011 - 07:18 AM, said:

Very nice and wise post BUT( and here it' a big "BUT"): The shia today are target of a huge propaganda by anti-shias where they invest billions and put all effort so that we are ridiculed and defamed and called kafir directly or indirectly .

Most active so-called sunnis here are people who think we should not exist in the first place  let alone have civilized discussion with us.

they quote weak sources to prove we are GHulat and Kafir and that we worship other than Allah.

Many people here don't consider us humans let alone Muslims and i don't want to cite names.

Even here then they don't shy away from saying we are followers of Ibn Saba (the cursed one) and this means we are Ghulat and Kafir even without them  being able to present a single proof .for it .

They are here on  A mission to distort tashayu and make it look like man-made madhab that has nothing to do with Islam.

I think a rule must be made where nobody : shia or sunni can present an argument that is not backed up by proof and references or links .

As for quoting Sunni sources then it's not futile at all but realistic and right because Sunni books are hujja on sunnis but our books and Hadiths are nothing for them. are you saying we must discuss with sunnis using our Hadiths ?? that would be

really unreasonable .

yes the purpose is not to convert people that's right! but haven't we got the right to defend ourselves . maybe it's peaceful here on shiachat compared to other forums and places but there's a world outside where our women are called prostitutes

where they are quoting their scholars like Al-alussi saying that shia women and wealth are Halal for sunnis . that  we must be killed because we are "Mushrik" and they even present corrupt Hadiths from their books (weak of course)

haven't we got the right to defend ourselves ??

yes we must stick to good manners but we must not keep silent !

We must be like Hazrat Ibn abbas(ra) in debates where he always wins because of his great proofs and using what is hujja for the people against them .

We are the victims here not the Salafis and many sunnis and if you act like a victim then you will always be one .

jazakallah khairan

tc

Its good we have some knowledgeable 12r Shias on this forum. The reason I am stating this is because when I quote sources such as the one the assassinate on the Mahdi, most 12rs have no answer. They can say this or that is made up. However, I can always respond back by posting a 12r alim on youtube referencing the same ahadith.

Edited by Abdaal, 05 June 2011 - 10:52 AM.

[Philip]

I think Dar'ul_Islams's post is a noble one with very good intentions .. Countering division and encouraging good conduct and manners. What is more important than that in Islam or?

[HellHound]

Justice4all, on 05 June 2011 - 04:59 AM, said:

As a Sunni, I have spent more than a year from participating on this website since I originally joined, but I logged in once again after reading your post. I am replying to confront your hypocrisy. I recall when I first joined, you were one of the most active members in answering my questions of Shiism (only questions, I had no doubts in my beliefs). I specifically recall you telling me that you want me to reach "haqq" or the truth (Shiism in your view). The same words are being uttered by you years later about Sunnis finding haqq in Shiism. You were very helpful in sharing Shiite links and trying to explain Shiism to me. However, as soon as I started challenging Shiite beliefs with intelligence, you grew upset. You then private messaged me asking me why I had joined this website. It was clear, you were only accommodating when I had questions in your hopes of converting me to Shiism. Your accommodation ran out, as soon as you realized I was not a gullible person and hence you sent me that private message, in which disagreements followed.

Let no Sunni be in doubt that this user, 'Dar'ul_Islam', has his main objective of converting new Sunni members with questions in this forum. This will be most rewarding to him - teaching other's about 'haqq'. It looks like arrogance is still with him.

I would also like to thank ShiaChat. Before I had joined this website, I was very unaware of Shiite beliefs and didn't know of the very strong differences between Ahl as-Sunnah and Shiism. Alhamdilillah, after having learned more of the Shiite beliefs, I understand how contrasting our views are.

Thank you Dar'ul_Islam, you have made me even more proud that I am following the true path - Ahl as-Sunnah.

Do us a favor and never return. Thanks. And also take your own arrogance and "true" path with you.

You know I used to think quite highly of Sunnis, despite the persecution I underwent for nearly 15 years in school, all because I was the only Shia. But I gotta wonder how exactly is it us who are being arrogant. I've been forced to change my views thanks to the arrogance and pride of your ilk. I once used to think the incident of the door was a complete fabrication, and I refrained from cursing the 3 and the 2 wives, all out of thinking that maybe, just MAYBE, I could be wrong. But I have seen the error of my ways.

Too long have we Shias been the one sugarcoating the relationship with Sunnis, with no sign of it bearing fruit. It's time we stop kissing the feet of those who praise the killers and persecutors of Ahlul Bayt . I understand what bro Darul Islam is trying to do here, and I definitely respect him for that. However, since his efforts are undermined by your likes, I will have to respectfully disagree on his stance. So yeah, go to hell "justice"4all.

Edited by Legio Invicta, 05 June 2011 - 11:31 AM.

[Dar'ul_Islam]

Justice4all, on 05 June 2011 - 04:59 AM, said:

Blah blah blah blah

That was quite some time ago and was in my era of being new to Shi'i Islam. I, like many others have experienced, when you find the truth like that you really just want everyone else to find it, too. So that was the reason I am so out there before. However, now, I see that people with closed hearts and minds are useless to talk to. So anyway, your recalling of this long passed event is irrelevant to today. I still don't think you really understand our beliefs or its origins, so I your opinions/views are not important to me.


Anyway, the point of this is that it is not our job to be here, for the Shi`ahs here, to just start posting topics to tryin "prove them wrong." Who cares. If they want to come and learn why we believe what we do we will present it to them. Using our ahadeeth and the Sunni ahadeeth that shows the same things.However, when we're attacked or whatever, we don't need the unknowledgeable members replying to them when they have no knowledge of our own texts. Especially the ones that lack any akhlaaq.

Anyway, I am deleting all the stupid/irrelevant posts in this topic and closing it as it seems to be treading very off course.

Ýí ÃãÇä Çááå