50 replies to this topic

[Shia96c]

My friend sent me this http://en.wikipedia....Iranian_denial. Does any one have any further information about this? I found it funny that he expects me to believe a guy named Ronen Bergman.

[Amir Kalil]

I read something about that before too
Not sure what the zionist state would get out of helping an Islamic republic that hates them and doesn't acknowledge their existence
So personally i find it hard to believe but you never know

[Basra]

Shia96c, on 14 February 2011 - 10:05 AM, said:

My friend sent me this http://en.wikipedia....Iranian_denial. Does any one have any further information about this? I found it funny that he expects me to believe a guy named Ronen Bergman.

Salamu alaikum, I am actually planning to write an in-depth article (or thread) on this topic.  You must have read my mind!  I am working on that article as we speak and I will post it in this section of the forums.  For now let me give you a good historical summary and refutation to the claim your friend sent you (via that Wikipedia link you provide).

After the Islamic Revolution of 1979 the West and the Zionists (who were very close allies with the deposed Shah) sought a way to regain some influence in Iran after being completely thrown out by the revolutionary Imam Khomeini .  The Americans and Zionist "Israelis" thought their best chance was to try to court what they termed "moderates" inside Iran (people the Americans and Zionist "Israelis" believed were anti-Khomeini), most Western historians who cover this period say that the political situation in Iran in this early period of the Revolutionary government (i.e. 1979 through early 1980s) was very confusing and Western/Zionist analysts weren't quite sure who had the power!  Remember Iran itself was beset with counter-revolutionaries like the MKO traitors (who eventually sided with Saddam al-Baathi in the Iran-Iraq war of 1980-1988) that were assassinating (or trying to assassinate) important Islamic government figures: see for example the assassination attempt against Imam Khamenei(ha) on June 27, 1981 and the second President of the Islamic Republic of Iran Mohammad-Ali Rajai who was assassinated by the MKO traitors on August 30, 1981.

MKO(la) traitor leader Massoud Rajavi(la) with his hero Saddam al-Baathi(la) in Baghdad, Iraq when the MKO(la) allied with Saddam al-Baathi(la)'s Iraq during the Iran-Iraq war of 1980-1988


Also you must remember that Imam Khomeini was diagnosed with cancer not long after the 1979 Islamic Revolution and that he underwent treatment that thanks to Allah(SWT)'s blessings sent his cancer into remission for another nearly ten years until he passed away on June 3, 1989.  Many Western analysts believed Imam Khomeini was going to pass away not long after the 1979 Islamic Revolution and that once Imam Khomeini was dead the Islamic Revolution would lose steam and Iran would fall back into the hands of people that would be under the influence of the Western imperialist powers.

As for the Iran-Iraq war, keep in mind the whole world (including the imperialist West) supported Saddam al-Baathi(la) during the Iran-Iraq war.
http://en.wikipedia....e_Iran–Iraq_war (American support for Saddam)

http://en.wikipedia....e_Iran–Iraq_war (British support for Saddam)

http://en.wikipedia....e_Iran–Iraq_war (Saudi support for Saddam)

http://en.wikipedia....e_Iran–Iraq_war (French support for Saddam)

http://en.wikipedia....e_Iran–Iraq_war (Italian support for Saddam)

http://en.wikipedia....e_Iran–Iraq_war (Soviet Union support for Saddam)

The Americans continually gave intelligence support to Saddam al-Baathi's Iraqi army giving them maps from US spy satellites of Iranian military positions, etc.  The huge US support for Saddam al-Baathi(la)'s Iraq really started in 1983 when the American imperialists started getting really scared that the Islamic Republic of Iran was going to actually win the Iran-Iraq war and topple Saddam(la)'s Baathist regime in Iraq.  This was a very close reality as the majority of the Iran-Iraq war, after the initial invasion of Saddam's Iraqi forces, saw Iran on the offensive and pushing into Iraqi territory.



As for foreign "support" for the Islamic Republic of Iran you need to again remember the Western imperialists thought Imam Khomeini was going to die soon after the 1979 Islamic Revolution (as he was being treated for cancer that thanks to Almighty Allah went into remission for ten years) and that they could undue the Islamic Revolution once the powerful figure Imam Khomeini was gone as they didn't think anybody among the Ulama would be able to fill Imam Khomeini 's shoes: thankfully later in 1989 when Imam Khomeini did pass away we had a great leader like Imam Ali Khamenei (ha) emerge!

Most foreign "support" for the Islamic Republic of Iran in the Iran-Iraq of 1980-1988 came in this general situation.  You also had what was called the Iran-Contra affair (http://en.wikipedia....n-contra_affair) wherein the West was selling weapons to people they thought of as "moderate" anti-Khomeini factions within Iran itself to in turn enable the US CIA to continue funding the Contra insurgency in Nicaragua against the popularly elected socialist Sandinista movement of Daniel Ortega: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FSLN also on the CIA backed Contra right wing rebels: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contras

The Iran-Contra affair was also important as the West was seeking Iran's influence on Shi'a Muslim Mujahideen in Lebanon; because Shi'a Muslim Mujahideen in Lebanon (calling themselves Islamic Jihad, many historians believe a nom de guerre for Hezbollah during the 1980s in the Lebanese civil war of 1975-1990) were holding Western people as prisoners accusing them of collaborating with the Western powers and Zionist "Israeli" occupation of Lebanon (side note the Lebanese civil war gets very confusing).

One of these individuals held by Hezbollah was: http://en.wikipedia....i/Benjamin_Weir
Another was: http://en.wikipedia....rry_A._Anderson

Quote- Terry A. Anderson (born October 27, 1947) is the best known, and longest held, hostage of a group of Americans believed to be captured by Shiite Hezbollah militants in an attempt to drive U.S. military forces from Lebanon during the Lebanese Civil War.

A good overall article: http://en.wikipedia...._hostage_crisis

Note the Iran-Contra affair was the following: http://en.wikipedia....n-Contra_Affair

Quote- The affair began as an operation to improve U.S.-Iranian relations. It was planned that Israel would ship weapons to a relatively moderate, politically influential group of Iranians, and then the U.S. would resupply Israel and receive the Israeli payment. The Iranian recipients promised to do everything in their power to achieve the release of six U.S. hostages, who were being held by the Lebanese Shia Islamist group Hezbollah, who in turn were connected to the Army of the Guardians of the Islamic Revolution. The plan deteriorated into an arms-for-hostages scheme, in which members of the executive branch sold weapons to Iran in exchange for the release of the American hostages.[3][4] Large modifications to the plan were devised by Lieutenant Colonel Oliver North of the National Security Council in late 1985, in which a portion of the proceeds from the weapon sales was diverted to fund anti-Sandinista and anti-communist rebels, or Contras, in Nicaragua.[5][6]
...

Arms transactions

Michael Ledeen, a consultant of National Security Adviser Robert McFarlane, requested assistance from Israeli Prime Minister Shimon Peres for help in the sale of arms to Iran.[25][26] At the time, Iran was in the midst of the Iran–Iraq War and could find few Western nations willing to supply it with weapons.[27] The idea behind the plan was for Israel to ship weapons through an intermediary (identified as Manucher Ghorbanifar)[3] to a supposedly moderate, politically influential Iranian group opposed to the Ayatollah Khomeni;[28] after the transaction, the U.S. would reimburse Israel with the same weapons, while receiving monetary benefits. The Israeli government required that the sale of arms meet high level approval from the United States government, and when Robert McFarlane convinced them that the U.S. government approved the sale, Israel obliged by agreeing to sell the arms.[25]

end quote.

A good academic link on the Iran-Contra affair  from America's Brown University:

http://www.brown.edu...tra-affairs.php

http://www.brown.edu...-background.php

Quote- Over the next few years, the situation further deteriorated and more hostages were taken. A religious fundamentalist group called the Islamic Holy War took hostage William F. Buckley, the Chief of the Central Intelligence Agency station in Beirut, Lebanon, in March 1984.  Over the following three years, more Americans were kidnapped.

By the mid-1980s, Iran sought to have nothing to do with the U.S. This was a very unusual position for the U.S. to be in, as typically the U.S. government was able to translate its financial wealth and military strength into influence over smaller countries around the world. Without the leverage they were used to having to assert authority in a region, top U.S. officials began examining alternative approaches to the U.S.’s relationship with Iran.

end quote.

http://www.brown.edu...hebeginning.php

Quote- The Beginning of the Affair
...
As the 1980s continued, the relationship between the U.S. and Iran worsened. In 1983, the U.S. was actively involved in preventing arms sales to Iran, a country it accused of supporting terrorists. The U.S. also used its influence to lean on countries that dealt with Iran. However, at the same time, National Security Council (NSC) members began to look into covert operations that could lead to a better relationship with Iran.

According to him, Adnan Khashoggi met with National Security Adviser Robert McFarlane beginning in 1983 to discuss U.S.-Iran relations. Meanwhile, former CIA Associate Director of Operations Theodore Shackley was introduced to General Manucher Hashemi, a former head of the Shah’s secret police, SAVAK. Hashemi then introduced Shackley to other Iranians, including Manucher Ghorbanifar and Hassan Karoubi, who became infamous during the ensuing investigation as the “first Iranian.”

In January 1984, McFarlane formally requested that the NSC examine how the U.S. could work to influence Iran, particularly a post-Khomeini Iran (the U.S. believed that he was close to death and that it would be easier to deal with the country after he died).  However, the report conveyed the sense that the U. S. was at an impasse in its relationship with Iran.

In 1985, Ghorbanifar and Khashoggi came into contact in Hamburg, Germany, and began devising the skeletons of the plan that would eventually become the Iran side of the Iran/Contra Affairs. Three Israelis were drawn into the discussion in the summer of 1985. A number of stories exist regarding the exact time, place, and specifics of these meetings. However, from these meetings came the idea to sell U.S. arms to Iran via Israel and the suggestion that, to gain the U.S.’s approval for the scheme, American hostages in Lebanon could be released.  At the same time this was happening, the NSC was searching for new ways to deal with Iran.

McFarlane met with Israeli David Kimche on July 3, 1985, who had been sent to the U.S. on behalf of the Israelis who had been involved in discussions with Khashoggi and Ghorbanifar.  Kimche presented their ideas to McFarlane had said that they were supported by both Iranian and Israeli officials.  Whether or not any of them had any official authority is unclear, but it seems unlikely. In a report to other top NSC advisers a few days later, McFarlane explained that Kimche had presented him with an opportunity to open dialogue with Iran. The Iranians wanted TOW missiles, and providing them would be an excellent way to improve  the U.S.’s relationship with the country. It could also likely lead to the release of the seven hostages held in Lebanon as Iran had influence over the terrorist groups who took the hostages.  In this report, McFarlane conveyed that Kimche was an emissary of the Israeli government—whether he actually believed this to be true is unclear. Secretary of State George Shultz and Secretary of Defense Caspar Weinberger voiced some opposition. However, McFarlane encouraged talks with Iran. Ghorbanifar put himself forward as a representative of the moderates in Iran who were interested in bettering relations with the U.S.  McFarlane, Ghorbanifar, and a variety of Israeli representatives began to formulate and refine a plan.

President Reagan’s Approval

On July 1, 1985, the New York Times quoted President Ronald Reagan: “The United States gives terrorists no rewards. We make no concessions, we make no deals.”  However, in August 1985, McFarlane visited Reagan in the hospital, where he was recovering from abdominal surgery, to talk about the deal in the works. The President approved the plan to allow Israel to sell approximately 100 American-made TOW antitank missiles to Iran, seeing it as a chance to improve relations with Iran and to gain the release of hostages. Israel would send Iran some of their American-made TOW missiles.  In exchange, the Iranians would release some, if not all, of the American hostages that they held. The U.S. would also send Israel replacement TOW missiles so that its arsenal would not be depleted. It is not entirely clear what was said during this discussion, as both Reagan and McFarlane have given varying accounts. However, soon after, the plan was put into motion. Iran, represented by Ghorbanifar, and Israel, represented by Kimche and Nimrodi, worked out the details of the plan.

Shipments Begin

On August 20, the first load of 96 missiles was sent to Iran from Israel, with Ghorbanifar and Khashoggi acting as financial intermediates.  However, no release of hostages followed. According to Ghobanifar, there had been a mix-up, but the hostages would be released if more missiles were sent, which Iran would pay for. President Reagan signed off on the second shipment from Israel, which consisted of 408 TOW missiles. On September 15, the day after the shipment arrived in Iran, Benjamin Weir, an American hostage, was released. It was at this point that Lieutenant Colonel Oliver North, the “principal action officer” for the NSC’s Contra dealings, was brought into the Iran dealings when McFarlane put him in charge of working with Kimche to figure out the logistics of getting Weir from Lebanon to the U.S. Though the very few people in the U.S. aware of the plan were angry that only one hostage had been released in exchange for 500 TOWs, McFarlane and others recognized other benefits they stood to gain from the trade. Additionally, all of the money transfers were being conducted by independent intermediaries––like Ghorbanifar and Khashoggi—instead of governments, which allowed for a great deal of flexibility. They were also determined to secure the release of more hostages.

end quote.

Also see: http://www.brown.edu...heexpansion.php

So as you see this was a secret deal between individuals in the US and Zionist "Israeli" governments and an individual named Manucher Ghorbanifar who was an Iranian expatriate who was living in France (specifically the city of Nice, France) and said he (that is Manucher Ghorbanifar) was close to anti-Khomeini "moderate" factions in Iran (also remember the Saudi arms dealer Adnan Khashoggi).  An expatriate is: "One who has taken up residence in a foreign country." or "One who has renounced one's native land."  This Manucher Ghorbanifar individual was very shadowy and claimed to have links inside Iran to again people the West and Zionist "Israelis" viewed as "moderates" whom they wanted to court: as the West and "Israelis" believed these "moderates" were anti-Khomeini and would undue the Islamic Revolution of 1979 as soon as Imam Khomeini passed away which Western analyst again thought was going to be very soon due to Imam Khomeini 's illness.

A crucial link on this Manucher Ghorbanifar individual: http://en.wikipedia....ehr_Ghorbanifar

Quote- Manucher Ghorbanifar (nickname "Gorba") is an expatriate Iranian arms dealer. He is best known as a middleman in the Iran-Contra Affair during the Ronald Reagan presidency.[1] He re-emerged in American politics during the lead-up to the 2003 invasion of Iraq during the first term of President George W. Bush as a back-channel intelligence source to certain Pentagon officials who desired regime change in Iran.[2]
...
Ghorbanifar home town: Nice, France
Ghorbanifar religion: Agnostic
...
French-Lebanese hostage crisis
Ghorbanifar has been suspected of being a former French DGSE informer, and allegedly accompanied Jean-Charles Marchiani, the right-hand man of former French Interior Minister Charles Pasqua, during his meetings with the deputy Iranian foreign minister to negotiate the release of the French hostages in Lebanon in the mid-1980s.[4]

end quote.

Picture of this Manucher Ghorbanifar, an Iranian exile who was living in France in the 1980s.  



Another individual involved in all this confusing, backdoor/shadowy dealings was a very wealthy, influential Saudi arms dealer (who still is alive today, just like Manucher Ghorbanifar is) named Adnan Khashoggi (he is mentioned in the Brown University articles on the Iran-Contra affair).

http://en.wikipedia....Adnan_Khashoggi

Quote- Adnan Khashoggi (Arabic: عدنان خاشقجي‎, IPA: [ʕædˈnæːn xæːˈʃuqdʒiː]; born 25 July 1935) is a Saudi Arabian arms-dealer and businessman. He is also noted for his engagements with high society in both the Occident and Arabic-speaking worlds, and for his involvement in the Iran–Contra and Lockheed bribery scandals[citation needed], and numerous other affairs. He was considered the richest man in the world in the 1980s.
...
Khashoggi was born in Mecca, the son of Muhammad Khashoggi, a medical doctor of Spanish, Basque and Turkish[1] ancestry who was King Abdel Aziz Al Saud's personal physician. The family name means spoonmaker (Kaşıkçı)[2] in Turkish. The family moved from the Iberian Peninsula and settled in Saudi Arabia. Adnan Khashoggi's sister Samira Khashoggi Fayed married Mohammed Al-Fayed and was the mother of Dodi Fayed.

Khashoggi was educated at Victoria College in Alexandria, Egypt, California State University, Chico, Ohio State University, and Stanford University in Palo Alto, California, USA. Khashoggi later left his studies in order to seek his fortune in business.

end quote.

Photo of Saudi arms dealer Adnan Khashoggi:



In conclusion, all of this was individual to individual and was Western/Zionist circles trying to arm anti-Khomeini "moderate" factions within the Islamic Republic of Iran in this confusing period of the 1980s which saw not only Imam Khomeini 's illness but also the Iran-Iraq war (1980-1988) and also the situation of Western prisoners (i.e. "hostages") held by Hezbollah in Lebanon during the Lebanese civil war (1975-1990).  As for Ronen Bergman he has no sources and is not to be taken seriously, much the same as Trita Parsi in his weak book that many scholars from all different points of view (anti-Zionists all the way to Zionist supporters) have questioned and refuted.

I also just found another interesting link which details how the Zionist "Israeli" arms industry was selling weapons (via different channels) to both Iran and Iraq to try to keep the war going longer and weaken both sides even more.  Keep in mind the world of international arms dealing is very complex and shady; many times countries don't know the exact origin of the weapons they are buying they just deal with shady arms dealers like that Adnan Khashoggi Saudi arms dealer I mentioned earlier.

An interesting Hollywood movie that shows this is the 2005 American movie "Lord of War" starring American actor Nicholas Cage as a shadowy, very wealthy arms dealer around the world; Nicholas Cage's character in this film is based on a combination of many real life international arms dealers.

http://en.wikipedia....iki/Lord_of_War



Now the historical link I was speaking of: http://www.gwu.edu/~...SAEBB/NSAEBB82/

Quote- ...
Document 1: United States Embassy in Turkey Cable from Richard W. Boehm to the Department of State. "Back Up of Transshipment Cargos for Iraq," November 21, 1980.

Shortly after the beginning of the Iran-Iraq war, the U.S. embassy in Ankara reports that Turkish ports have a backlog of goods awaiting transshipment to Iraq, and that a substantial amount of Israeli goods transit Turkey for "Islamic belligerents," including Israeli chemical products for Iran. It remarks on "Israeli acumen" in selling to both Iran and Iraq.

end quote.

http://www.gwu.edu/~...BB82/iraq01.pdf A PDF file of this American intelligence document, point 5 of this document again states: "He admired Israeli business acumen in selling to both sides" (i.e. to both Iran and Saddam's Iraq).

The word "acumen" is defined as: "keen insight; shrewdness: remarkable acumen in business matters."

Edited by Basra, 14 February 2011 - 02:01 PM.

[Basra]

As to the issue of where the Islamic Republic of Iran obtained the majority of their weapons and supplies for the war against Saddam's Iraq (i.e. the Iran-Iraq war of 1980-1988).  Iran was faced with economic sanctions from the imperialist United States of Amerikkka and the Amerikkkans did everything they could do to stop Iran from obtaining weapons and spare parts for the war of defensive against Saddam's Baathist invasion; see the imperialist US program called Operation Staunch that sought to blockade Iran and not allow them get weapons to defend themselves from the US puppet Saddam al-Baathi(la): http://en.wikipedia....eration_Staunch

Most sources tell us Iran received arms in this war period against Saddam(la) mostly from North Korea, Libya, Syria, and China.  North Korea (on top of giving Iran support on their own) acted as a source for China to secretly sell weapons and supplies to Iran.  A last note is North Korea was very important in giving Iran help in developing a strong ballistic missile program, insha'Allah.  North Korea has been a very good ally standing with Iran.

http://www.abc.net.a.../24/2936414.htm N Korea seeks $75 trillion in compensation

Always remember Saddam al-Baathi was a imperialist US puppet, armed and supported by the US.

Edited by Basra, 18 February 2011 - 02:39 AM.

[Shia96c]

Thanks for the awesome reply, a lot more information then I was expecting!

[Dhulfikar]

Israel support Iran? I can't even imagine that.

Edited by Zufa, 20 February 2011 - 08:04 AM.

[Shervin]

Iran will destroy Israel, you can imagine that.

[Basra]

Also read these recent links refuting a recent propaganda claim made against the Islamic Republic of Iran by the Zionists and Wahhabi presses.

http://www.maskofzio...propaganda.html
Ofergate: The Latest Zionist Propaganda Blitz Against Iran
by Jonathan Azaziah

Also see: http://www.presstv.i...ail/182350.html

Edited by Basra, 01 September 2011 - 11:56 PM.

[satyaban]

Shia96c, on 14 February 2011 - 10:05 AM, said:

My friend sent me this http://en.wikipedia....Iranian_denial. Does any one have any further information about this? I found it funny that he expects me to believe a guy named Ronen Bergman.

You know those Jooos, anything to make a buck.

Ronen Bergman


From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Jump to: navigation, search
Ronen Bergman (born June 16, 1972) is an Israeli investigative journalist and author. He is Currently a senior political and military analyst for Yedioth Ahronoth,^[1] Israel’s largest-circulation daily.
Mr. Bergman has written for The New York Times, the Wall Street Journal, Foreign Affairs, and Newsweek in the United States, and for The Times, The Guardian, the Frankfurter Allgemeine Zeitung, and the Sueddeutsche Zeitung in Europe. He is also interviewed frequently by the media in the United States and Europe, and his work is often quoted in Middle Eastern newspapers in Arabic and Persian.
He has published four books in Hebrew, which were all well received, and which topped Israeli non-fiction best-seller lists. His books cover corruption in the Palestinian Authority, the 1973 Yom Kippur War, the Iranian nuclear project, and Israeli POWs and MIAs.
A translation of his third book, 'The Secret War with Iran', was published by Simon & Schuster in 2008. The book appeared in the Boston Globe’s recommended reading list for summer 2009.
He is a regular co-anchor of a daytime news and current affairs magazine on Israeli TV. He often appears on major U.S. broadcasting networks and the BBC, and is a frequent guest on Al-Jazeera.
Mr. Bergman lectures frequently to academic and military audiences, as well as to the general public. He has been a guest lecturer at academic forums at major universities in Israel and abroad, including Princeton, Yale, Columbia, New York University, Oxford, and Cambridge, and at military and intelligence forums in Israel, the United States and England.

[Basra]

satyaban, on 01 September 2011 - 11:58 PM, said:

You know those Jooos, anything to make a buck.

Ronen Bergman


From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Jump to: navigation, search
Ronen Bergman (born June 16, 1972) is an Israeli investigative journalist and author. He is Currently a senior political and military analyst for Yedioth Ahronoth,^[1] Israel’s largest-circulation daily.
Mr. Bergman has written for The New York Times, the Wall Street Journal, Foreign Affairs, and Newsweek in the United States, and for The Times, The Guardian, the Frankfurter Allgemeine Zeitung, and the Sueddeutsche Zeitung in Europe. He is also interviewed frequently by the media in the United States and Europe, and his work is often quoted in Middle Eastern newspapers in Arabic and Persian.
He has published four books in Hebrew, which were all well received, and which topped Israeli non-fiction best-seller lists. His books cover corruption in the Palestinian Authority, the 1973 Yom Kippur War, the Iranian nuclear project, and Israeli POWs and MIAs.
A translation of his third book, 'The Secret War with Iran', was published by Simon & Schuster in 2008. The book appeared in the Boston Globe’s recommended reading list for summer 2009.
He is a regular co-anchor of a daytime news and current affairs magazine on Israeli TV. He often appears on major U.S. broadcasting networks and the BBC, and is a frequent guest on Al-Jazeera.
Mr. Bergman lectures frequently to academic and military audiences, as well as to the general public. He has been a guest lecturer at academic forums at major universities in Israel and abroad, including Princeton, Yale, Columbia, New York University, Oxford, and Cambridge, and at military and intelligence forums in Israel, the United States and England.

He has no sources and is refuted by even other Zionist "Israeli" academics.  I have shown that everything was in relation to the Iran-Contra affair (where Iran was getting some weapons in return for helping free some Western prisoners held in Lebanon), etc.  You are easily refuted.

Edited by Basra, 02 September 2011 - 12:04 AM.

[DeeeeeBo]

Yeah i remember doing a fair bit of research into this, and reading plenty of books about this topic...

My conclusion was pretty much the same as yours, while im not doubting your views on arming "moderates" to overthrow the IRI after Khomeinis death, but one thing i find strange is how TOW missiles would help them do so !

The war was as you mentioned, simple

It was to get both states to slaughter each other, while making big big dollars off it... Prices were inflated to stupid amounts, as they are in these situations, but because of the massive sanctions facing Iran, they were paying like hundreds of thousands for wheels, to use on their airplanes when normally it would of been 10-20 thousand !

It was as you said a massive scheme. Hell even the satellite imagery given to saddam via the americans and soviets were alot of the times, incorrect, which was just leading them into slaughter !

It was financed and dragged on for song long, to create more fitna and destroy Islam ! plain and simple, if Iran and Iraq were to unite, that would be a massive Shia superpower that would control half of the worlds oil n gas ! that is a big no no, and this is why the Saudis n Khaleej puppets funded saddam heavily !

In the end it was there to destroy people, and it did nothing but rape Iraq of its wealth, only to be destroyed over and over for the next 20 years by the West !

Iran on the other hand, played their cards right and are reaping the benefits now ! Iran could of easily fallen for the trap set for them when the taliban killed i dont know how many diplomats in 98 but the best thing for them is to sit put !

Salams

[570]

nice thread. some wahhabbis use this issue to spread their propagandas

DeeeeeBo, on 17 September 2011 - 07:33 PM, said:

but one thing i find strange is how TOW missiles would help them do so !

me too, since they are anti tank missiles, these missiles seems useless for "moderates" to overthrow IRI

[Basra]

DeeeeeBo, on 17 September 2011 - 07:33 PM, said:

Yeah i remember doing a fair bit of research into this, and reading plenty of books about this topic...

My conclusion was pretty much the same as yours, while im not doubting your views on arming "moderates" to overthrow the IRI after Khomeinis death, but one thing i find strange is how TOW missiles would help them do so !

The war was as you mentioned, simple

It was to get both states to slaughter each other, while making big big dollars off it... Prices were inflated to stupid amounts, as they are in these situations, but because of the massive sanctions facing Iran, they were paying like hundreds of thousands for wheels, to use on their airplanes when normally it would of been 10-20 thousand !

It was as you said a massive scheme. Hell even the satellite imagery given to saddam via the americans and soviets were alot of the times, incorrect, which was just leading them into slaughter !

It was financed and dragged on for song long, to create more fitna and destroy Islam ! plain and simple, if Iran and Iraq were to unite, that would be a massive Shia superpower that would control half of the worlds oil n gas ! that is a big no no, and this is why the Saudis n Khaleej puppets funded saddam heavily !

In the end it was there to destroy people, and it did nothing but rape Iraq of its wealth, only to be destroyed over and over for the next 20 years by the West !

Iran on the other hand, played their cards right and are reaping the benefits now ! Iran could of easily fallen for the trap set for them when the taliban killed i dont know how many diplomats in 98 but the best thing for them is to sit put !

Salams

Good points, the main thing I was mentioning though was how the imperialist US was working with an expatriate Iranian arms dealer Manucher Ghorbanifar (http://en.wikipedia....ehr_Ghorbanifar) who was (and think still is) living in France: as the go between for all these dealings (that allegedly involved some weapons being shipped via Zionist "Israel").  The main thing the US regime was noting is that Manucher Ghorbanifar was anti-Khomeini and that is why they could work with him because he allegedly had "connections" inside Iran to some Iranian people who allegedly opposed the new Revolutionary Islamic Republic government (that is "moderates" within the government and military itself).  Thus the US analysts were saying while they were giving weapons to Iran they were meaning for them to be direct towards "moderates" within the country that could play a role in the government and work against Imam Khomeini .  You have to understand this period was very chaotic and there were armed groups like the MKO terrorists martyring different Islamic Republic government figures and leaders.  And even beyond this Western academics note that there were internal power struggles in Iran mostly between Imam Khomeini and Islamic based people and more leftist individuals that had supported the 1979 Islamic Revolution but then didn't want an Islamic Republic they wanted debauchery of a secular rule, etc.

аli, on 05 October 2011 - 07:09 AM, said:

nice thread. some wahhabbis use this issue to spread their propagandas


me too, since they are anti tank missiles, these missiles seems useless for "moderates" to overthrow IRI

Salam, one thing you have to keep in mind is that the imperialist US was trying to play on any potential disunity within the new Iranian government at that point.  Iran was chaotic at that point, in the early days of the Revolution in the early 1980s.  You have serious counter-revolutionary movements and terrorist groups like the US/formerly Saddam backed MKO that was actively targeting and even martyring (assassinating) Islamic Republic leaders and officials.  On top of this as I've already mentioned the US analyst's reports mention that they saw "dissension" within the Islamic Republic government and that there were the presence of "moderates" (within the new Iranian government and military, some new people and some hangers on from the Shah's time who were trying to adapt to a new reality in Iran in their careers, etc) who opposed Imam Khomeini and his closest followers (the Revolutionary Guards, etc).  It gets even more complex when we note that Imam Khomeini was in ill-health throughout much of the 1980s, and thanks to Allah(SWT)'s mercy he was allowed to live all the way until 1989.  The US analysts' note in their reports from that time that Imam Khomeini was in ill-health (having survived cancer I believe for nearly 10 years) and that the US regime officials thought they could try to undue the Islamic Revolution after the passing of Imam Khomeini .  As again the US government analysts didn't believe there was any figure who could replace a revolutionary icon like Imam Khomeini in Iran.  Basically the US analysts said once Imam Khomeini passed away (which was only a matter of time because of his age and health) the Islamic Revolution would lose steam and could be overcome by "moderates" (a mix of leftists, secularists, MKO people, hangers on from the Shah, etc).  Thankfully Imam Ali Khamenei (HA) came to the leadership role and cemented the Islamic Revolution for good: insha'Allah.

A very good article on a recent situation (and this situation we are discussing). http://www.maskofzio...propaganda.html

Edited by Basra, 05 October 2011 - 04:14 PM.

[Professor Higgins]

Yes, Iran helped Israel with intelligence to destroy Iraqi nuclear programme especially the OSIRAQ  nuclear reactor which was attacked both by Iran and Israel.  Iran also bought weapons from US on the sly.

The Beirut kidnappings were done by Iran so that the international community puts pressure on Kuwaiti Government who had sentenced 17 Iraqi Da'wa Party terrorists to death for the attempted 1983 Kuwait bombing which was planned to eradicate Kuwait from the face of the earth. These Iraqi Da'wa Party terrorists ( lead by the terrrorist leader Nouri al Maliki) were targetting Kuwait for supporting Iraq with financial aid. These Dawa Party are traitors to Iraq, thats why we supported People's Mujahideen of Iran and the ledaer Massoud Rajavi, who is the legitimate President of Iran.

Edited by Professor Higgins, 06 October 2011 - 04:44 AM.

[The Canuck]

Quote

Yes, Iran helped Israel with intelligence to destroy Iraqi nuclear programme especially the OSIRAQ nuclear reactor which was attacked both by Iran and Israel. Iran also bought weapons from US on the sly.

The Beirut kidnappings were done by Iran so that the international community puts pressure on Kuwaiti Government who had sentenced 17 Iraqi Da'wa Party terrorists to death for the attempted 1983 Kuwait bombing which was planned to eradicate Kuwait from the face of the earth. These Iraqi Da'wa Party terrorists ( lead by the terrrorist leader Nouri al Maliki) were targetting Kuwait for supporting Iraq with financial aid. These Dawa Party are traitors to Iraq, thats why we supported People's Mujahideen of Iran and the ledaer Massoud Rajavi, who is the legitimate President of Iran.

LOL Israel did not need intelligence from Iran to take out Iraq's well known nuclear facility.  Your blind following and complete biased behaviour is vintage imbecile.

If you're talking about the Saddam-Iran war from 1980-1988.  The USA supported Saddam full out, they even saved him militarily.  The USA actually tried to put a strangle hold on Iran and prevent Iran from gaining any ground during that war.  One of the things Iran did to release that strangle hold was to use the hostage taking situation to negotiate an arms/supply deal.  Iran was getting their supplies from the black market, While the USA was still trying to prevent them.  In the end it didn't benefit Iran, they only received two plane loads of equipment that didn't really help.  It was mentioned that the USA used supplies that were stored in an Israeli warehouse and logistically transferred from there.  Did it make a difference in the war? no not at all.

The USA backed Saddam throughout with full support, funding, supplies, and military logistic help, not to mention actually engaging militarily in support of Saddam.

The USA did not want to see Iran take power in the region.

[satyaban]

Professor Higgins, on 06 October 2011 - 04:43 AM, said:

Yes, Iran helped Israel with intelligence to destroy Iraqi nuclear programme especially the OSIRAQ  nuclear reactor which was attacked both by Iran and Israel.  Iran also bought weapons from US on the sly.

The Beirut kidnappings were done by Iran so that the international community puts pressure on Kuwaiti Government who had sentenced 17 Iraqi Da'wa Party terrorists to death for the attempted 1983 Kuwait bombing which was planned to eradicate Kuwait from the face of the earth. These Iraqi Da'wa Party terrorists ( lead by the terrrorist leader Nouri al Maliki) were targetting Kuwait for supporting Iraq with financial aid. These Dawa Party are traitors to Iraq, thats why we supported People's Mujahideen of Iran and the ledaer Massoud Rajavi, who is the legitimate President of Iran.

Huh?

[Basra]

Professor Higgins, on 06 October 2011 - 04:43 AM, said:

Yes, Iran helped Israel with intelligence to destroy Iraqi nuclear programme especially the OSIRAQ  nuclear reactor which was attacked both by Iran and Israel.  Iran also bought weapons from US on the sly.

The Beirut kidnappings were done by Iran so that the international community puts pressure on Kuwaiti Government who had sentenced 17 Iraqi Da'wa Party terrorists to death for the attempted 1983 Kuwait bombing which was planned to eradicate Kuwait from the face of the earth. These Iraqi Da'wa Party terrorists ( lead by the terrrorist leader Nouri al Maliki) were targetting Kuwait for supporting Iraq with financial aid. These Dawa Party are traitors to Iraq, thats why we supported People's Mujahideen of Iran and the ledaer Massoud Rajavi, who is the legitimate President of Iran.

Iran had nothing to do with the Zionist "Israelis" destroying the Osirak nuclear reactor in Iraq.  As others have already mentioned in this thread; everyone knew where the Osirak reactor was and what it was, so why on earth would "Israel" need Iran's "help" to bomb/destroy the Osirak reactor?!  The "source" for your false propaganda claim that Iran allegedly "helped" Zionist "Israel" with military intelligence on Osirak comes from one, lone, completely discredited individual: an "Israeli" named Ari Ben-Menashe who was a former "Israeli" government employee who has long since been recognized and confirmed as a teller of tall tales (i.e. a liar and myth-making opportunist).  All reputable journalists completely abandoned the claims of Ari Ben-Menashe when he flunked a lie detector test relating to what he claimed was his alleged involvement in the "Iran-Contra affair". http://en.wikipedia....e-detector_test

Hezbollah (backed by the Islamic Republic of Iran) targeted Westerners for kidnapping/capture in Lebanon for two main reasons; 1) because Western nations specifically the US and France were arming and supporting Maronite Christian militias and other enemies of Hezbollah in the Lebanese Civil War (1975-1990) that was still going on at this point.  And 2) Iran wanted Hezbollah to capture these Western individuals (specifically Americans and French) because Iran knew that both America and France were arming Saddam's Iraq in the Iran-Iraq war.

US support/arming of Saddam's Iraq: http://en.wikipedia....2%80%93Iraq_war

France supports/arms Saddam's Iraq: http://en.wikipedia....2%80%93Iraq_war

As for Kuwait, if Iran was supporting people to attack Kuwait this was done as you said because Kuwait was funding Saddam's illegal invasion/military aggression against Iran.  The Western captives taken in Lebanon had nothing to do with Kuwait, they were because Hezbollah knew the US and France were arming Maronite militias, including Lebanese Maronite Christians militias backed by the "Israelis" like the Phalange in the Lebanese Civil War (1975-1990); and also because Iran wanted to use Hezbollah as a instrument to strike at America and France (by having Hezbollah capture French and American nationals in Lebanon) because both the American and French government's were backing, arming, and supporting Saddam's Iraq against Iran in the Iran-Iraq War (1980-1988).

The MKO terrorists are nothing but a bunch of idiotic thugs (today funded by the CIA and Zionist "Israeli" Mossad) and Saddam supported them as well.  Just like Iran supported actual freedom fighters like the Iraqi Shi'a Muslim SCIRI (Supreme Council for the Islamic Revolution in Iraq) and long oppressed Iraqi Kurds who joined with Iran against the Iraqi Kurds hated/racist enemy Saddam.

Lastly, your claim that Iran was "buying weapons on the sly" from the US is devoid of all context, which my writing in this thread has provided (i.e. the whole "Iran-Contra affair", Oliver North, etc).  The US government made a point of trying to clamp down on all US companies that could possibly do deals with Iran (by selling them weapons, supplies, etc) these non-governmental US companies would deal with anyone provided they have the money (that is how street criminals and international arms dealers work they are not picky about who they deal with: see the Hollywood movie "Lord of War" starring Nicholas Cage for a fictional portrayal of this real life phenomenon http://en.wikipedia....iki/Lord_of_War).  The US goverment's attempts to ensure that US companies were not selling any weapons or supplies to the Islamic Republic of Iran during the Iran-Iraq War, was codenamed "Operation Staunch" by the US government. http://en.wikipedia....eration_Staunch

Let me give you just a summary of the "Iran-Contra affair"; in the mid 1980s Iran encouraged Hezbollah in Lebanon (who of course the Islamic Republic of Iran helped found, train and arm) to capture Western (particularly French and American) nationals in Lebanon during the Lebanese Civil War (which lasted again from 1975-1990).  The Iranians wanted French and American nationals as prisoners (via Hezbollah in Lebanon) for both leverage and punishment against the French and American government's for their (that is the US and France)'s arming and supporting of Saddam's Iraq against Iran in the then ongoing Iran-Iraq war; Hezbollah itself knew that both France and America were arming Hezbollah's enemies in Lebanon during the civil war: namely the Zionist "Israeli" backed right wing Maronite Christian Phalange fascist militia.  American government officials like Oliver North stepped in an worked out what became the "Iran-Contra affair" wherein the US government negoitated for Iran to use its influence (and one could say control) over Hezbollah in Lebanon, to have Hezbollah release these Western prisoners being then held in Lebanon.  In return for doing this Iran was allowed to purchase and paid some money for desperately needed American weapons (specifically TOW anti-tank missiles http://en.wikipedia....iki/TOW_missile) that were apparently shipped from the US to Iran via "Israel" (and the US then gave money to "Israel" as well).  The Contra part, of the "Iran-Contra affair", comes in because Oliver North was having the CIA redirect this secret money raised from these secret bribery weapons sales to Iran, into US support for the right wing CIA created Contra rebels in Nicaragua that were fighting the Socialist Nicaraguan government of the Sandinisitas who were led by Daniel Ortega.  The CIA was also involved in cocaine trafficking with the drug dealing Contras, to help fund the CIA backed Contra rebels in Nicaragua in this same 1980s period.

The US backed Saddam:



The US CIA's links with Saddam go all the way back to at least 1959, when the CIA trained/armed Saddam to carry out a failed assassination attempt on then Iraqi leader/anti-imperialist figure Abd al-Karim Qassim! http://www.informati...article2849.htm "Exculsive: Saddam was key in early CIA plot"

The Zionist "Israelis" sold weapons to Saddam's Iraq as well during the Iran-Iraq war. http://www.gwu.edu/~...SAEBB/NSAEBB82/ US agents admired "Israeli" businessmen and their business "acumen" (or "skill") in selling weapons to both Saddam's Iraq and Iran in this period (to get them to kill each other for the US and "Israel").  Side note in the world of international arms trade things are shady and a lot of stuff goes on where you cannot even trace were the weapons came from it is just all about money, and shady international arms dealers, etc.  And then imagine how much more complicated it gets when you throw in political intrigue.

Other Zionist "Israeli" support for Saddam's Iraqi military during the Iran-Iraq war included http://www.maskofzio...propaganda.html: The "Israelis" giving Saddam's Iraqi military: "assistance in piloting missiles against Iranian targets from the usurping Israeli entity’s Mossad".  Source for this information is a former Mossad operative named Victor Ostrovsky: The Other Side Of Deception: A Rogue Agent Exposes Mossad’s Secret Agenda by Victor Ostrovsky http://en.wikipedia....ictor_Ostrovsky

Also evidence shows that Saddam was collaborating with Zionist "Israel" against Syria in the Lebanese Civil War (1975-1990) as both Saddam and "Israel" had a common enemy in Hafez al-Assad led Syria (as the Baath in Iraq and the Baath in Syria are mortal enemies as I'm sure you know). In 1988 Saddam openly offered to collaborate with "Israel" to bring about the "liberation of Lebanon from Syrian occupation".  Note this was at the same time that "Israelis" soldiers still occupied south Lebanon, Hezbollah would force the "Israelis" out of all but Shebaa farms, Lebanon in 2000.

http://books.google....ration&f=false
See page 201 of this book "Saddam Hussein: a political biography" by "Israeli" Efraim Karsh

Edited by Basra, 07 October 2011 - 01:17 AM.

[Noah-]

Who cares if Israel got some infos on Saddam's nuclear sites and bombed it?

The good thing is that he was unable to build one. That might be the only good thing the apartheid state did in her history. What would have happened if Saddam obtained nuclear bombs? The first thing he would have done to kill millions of Shias in the south and millions of Sunni Kurds up in the north of the country. Anyone thinks that he could ever used them or demonstrated them against Israel or any Western country?

Just question yourself: What did Saddam do when he received bio and chemical weapons from his western masters? Who were the victims? Israelis or his own people and the Iranian Muslims?

This guy professor BS is a joke... I don't know why some posters waste time on his stupid remarks and try to convince this guy who has no logic and no value with pages and pages of arguments and discussions!!!!

Is he another [..Edited..] posing as an atheist Palestinian and attacking Shia Islam? Or simply an ignorant Arab who expects Shias on this forum (Persians, Pakistanis, Indians and other Shia Arabs who been the victims of Arab nationalism and fascism) to support his ideas regarding Saddam and Arab nationalism and insult religion.

The fool should realize that in last 70 years of 'Arab - Israeli' confrontations, the only time Arabs gained some dignity through any war against Israel was when the religious 'party of God' the Lebanese religious Hizbullah group backed by Iran fought like those during the battle of Karbala and brought victories and freedom to their neighborhoods... Not any secular-fascist Arab party or any Takfiri-Alqaida Salafist movement.

[Note from Mod: Post edited - Some people have taken offence to the word you have used to describe a religious group.]

Edited by Serenity`, 08 October 2011 - 01:51 AM.

[Basra]

Noah-, on 07 October 2011 - 01:49 AM, said:

Who cares if Israel got some infos on Saddam's nuclear sites and bombed it?

The point is the "Israelis" did not get (nor need) any such info from Iran to bomb the Osirak reactor in Iraq.  The only "source" for this claim about Iran allegedly giving intelligence information to "Israel" on the Osirak reactor (to allegedly "help" the "Israelis" strike and destroy it) was one "Israeli" individual named Ari Ben-Menashe, who was a former "Israeli" government official who is a confirmed liar (that has failed lie detector tests) http://en.wikipedia....e-detector_test.  This liar Menashe claimed Iran was working with the "Israelis" to destroy the Osirak reactor and allegedly agreed to allow "Israeli" planes to land in Tabriz, Iran if necessary.  This claim is again a complete fraud of this liar Ari Ben-Menashe who is an opportunist that has been revealed as a complete liar and fraud by his flunked lie detector tests on these issues: which he claimed to have had alleged "information" and "involvement" in.  They never happened and he is a liar.

Edited by Basra, 07 October 2011 - 02:46 AM.

[Noah-]

Basra, on 07 October 2011 - 02:42 AM, said:

The point is the "Israelis" did not get (nor need) any such info from Iran to bomb the Osirak reactor in Iraq.

I know bro, I understand that is totally nonsense and childish propaganda.  But, my point was that we do not have to proof anything in regard to that.

A bunch of puppet Zionist Arabs (aka puppet Wahabis and loser Marxist) are trying to accuse Iran of allying with Israel?

Lets say even if that was true, but still Iran as a non-Arab country and a Shia state has no obligation to sacrifice everything for the sake of Sunni Arab Palestine. What ever these Arab countries do to help their humiliated sisters and mothers in Palestine? Countries like Jordan? Morocco? Egypt? Saudi Arabia? UAE?

Iran is somehow responsible based on these unknown and wrong reports (after all these years of support to Lebanon and Palestine) but, Sunni countries such as Egypt, Morocco and Turkey who all have diplomatic relations and who contributed in direct killing and suffering of Palestinians are ignored. See the hypocrisy here!

Saudi Arabia, the custodian of holysshiitt and the protector of Zionists interests all did in its entire history has been to work against Palestine and against entire Arab interests but these people never pointed a finger against her. And when some Shias protest in Qatif, they are being labeled as Iranian agents and the dictator puppet government is backed up. And now considering all these, we don't need to proof anything to these losers. Even Palestinian citizens themselves, like this guy above selling their own families for a few dollars spying for Israeli forces in killing and arresting them on daily basis..

[Professor Higgins]

Noah-, on 07 October 2011 - 11:00 AM, said:

A bunch of puppet Zionist Arabs (aka puppet Wahabis and loser Marxist) are trying to accuse Iran of allying with Israel?

Lets say even if that was true, but still Iran as a non-Arab country and a Shia state has no obligation to sacrifice everything for the sake of Sunni Arab Palestine. What ever these Arab countries do to help their humiliated sisters and mothers in Palestine? Countries like Jordan? Morocco? Egypt? Saudi Arabia? UAE?
!

No, these countries did not do anything for Palestine, but the point is, Iraq did, under Saddam. Lets see what Nouri al Maliki will do in regards to Zionist except give a few lame speeches like these puppet Kings and dictators.

[Professor Higgins]

Noah-, on 07 October 2011 - 01:49 AM, said:

Who cares if Israel got some infos on Saddam's nuclear sites and bombed it?

The good thing is that he was unable to build one. That might be the only good thing the apartheid state did in her history. What would have happened if Saddam obtained nuclear bombs? The first thing he would have done to kill millions of Shias in the south and millions of Sunni Kurds up in the north of the country. Anyone thinks that he could ever used them or demonstrated them against Israel or any Western country?

Just question yourself: What did Saddam do when he received bio and chemical weapons from his western masters? Who were the victims? Israelis or his own people and the Iranian Muslims?

This guy professor BS is a joke... I don't know why some posters waste time on his stupid remarks and try to convince this guy who has no logic and no value with pages and pages of arguments and discussions!!!!

Is he another Hindo posing as an atheist Palestinian and attacking Shia Islam? Or simply an ignorant Arab who expects Shias on this forum (Persians, Pakistanis, Indians and other Shia Arabs who been the victims of Arab nationalism and fascism) to support his ideas regarding Saddam and Arab nationalism and insult religion.

The fool should realize that in last 70 years of 'Arab - Israeli' confrontations, the only time Arabs gained some dignity through any war against Israel was when the religious 'party of God' the Lebanese religious Hizbullah group backed by Iran fought like those during the battle of Karbala and brought victories and freedom to their neighborhoods... Not any secular-fascist Arab party or any Takfiri-Alqaida Salafist movement.

Iraq was going to be a nuclear superpower, Israel was damn scared, why else would they bomb the nuclear reactor ?  Out of sympathy for Kurds and Shi'ites ?  LOL.

Iraq was the foremost progressive, industrialized Arab country under Saddam, it was NOTHING  like Saudi Arabia or UAE, and btw we don;t have any issues with Shia but we do not like religious establishment interfering in internal affairs.  We are not atheist, we believe in Allah and Prophet , but we do not believe in political Islam and we also think Islam is not suited for a multi-religious society, we are against Mullah's influence in society.

And last time I checked Hezballah was also a secular party, they abandoned Islamism in 1990  Taif accords.

Edited by Professor Higgins, 07 October 2011 - 01:40 PM.

[Noah-]

Professor Higgins, on 07 October 2011 - 01:38 PM, said:

Iraq was going to be a nuclear superpower, Israel was damn scared, why else would they bomb the nuclear reactor ?  Out of sympathy for Kurds and Shi'ites ?  LOL.

Iraq was the foremost progressive, industrialized Arab country under Saddam, it was NOTHING  like Saudi Arabia or UAE, and btw we don;t have any issues with Shia but we do not like religious establishment interfering in internal affairs.  We are not atheist, we believe in Allah and Prophet , but we do not believe in political Islam and we also think Islam is not suited for a multi-religious society, we are against Mullah's influence in society.

And last time I checked Hezballah was also a secular party, they abandoned Islamism in 1990  Taif accords.

OK. That is non of my business man... I don't care about Iraq under Saddam and all that and if you want to turn Palestine into a porn industry, that is all your choice and the majority of Palestinians.. But, I guess they picked Hamas the Iranian ally over you all... And regarding Saddam, I only see him as a 'murtad communist' who turned against Islam and massacred millions of innocent people.

Now, why you are crying about Israeli attack here? ISRAEL BOMBED them in front of your eyes and publicly.. Why the so called regional supper power could not do any shtttt about it? Why you all Palestinian cowards and other Arab nationalists shttt your pants?

Why there was no retaliation against Israeli attack? Did you all hide under your burqas?

Lets see if Israel bombs Iran's nuclear facilities, then you can see what would be the reaction of Iranian government and Shia Islamists.. it will remove Israel from the face of the map all at once and for good.

Hizbullah is not only a religious group but it also depends and obeys WF... And I am sure you know what that means :- )

Edited by Noah-, 07 October 2011 - 05:33 PM.

[Akritas]

Israel supplied Iran with considerable amounts of weapons during the 1980's, particularly spare parts of aircraft, tanks and the like. At the time Israel was more worried about Iraq. It is closer and has actually sent troops to fight them in 1948 and 1973. Iran was fighting for its life against Iraq and wasn't in a position to say no to anybody offering it supplies. While neither of them liked the other even a little bit or want to admit to it cutting a deal worked for both at the time. Calling them "allies" would be a stretch but they did cut some deals.

I have no concrete data on what Iran may or may not have done before the Osriask raid.

[The Canuck]

Quote

Israel supplied Iran with considerable amounts of weapons during the 1980's, particularly spare parts of aircraft, tanks and the like. At the time Israel was more worried about Iraq. It is closer and has actually sent troops to fight them in 1948 and 1973. Iran was fighting for its life against Iraq and wasn't in a position to say no to anybody offering it supplies. While neither of them liked the other even a little bit or want to admit to it cutting a deal worked for both at the time. Calling them "allies" would be a stretch but they did cut some deals.

I have no concrete data on what Iran may or may not have done before the Osriask raid.

You're wrong, Israel did not supply anything at all.  If you're talking about the contra-affair incident, the US used 'some' supplies logistically from Israel in the amount of 2 cargo planes which was a fiasco deal brokered during the hostage crisis.  This was only because the US was using all means to block Iran from acquiring military supplies. That is the reason the hostage crisis was used as leverage.

That is the only so called 'deal' that occurred.  There was nothing else, so there wasn't anything 'significant' that Iran received at all.  Neither can this fit in the category of 'supporting' a country.   Please, get your facts straight.

wa salam.

Edited by Mujahid, 08 October 2011 - 01:40 AM.