132 replies to this topic

[baradar_jackson]

Seyyed Ali Khamenei is great. Because of this, he has many titles. These titles are reflective of our love for him. Some people dislike this. They say that he is not deserving of such love, or worse, that such love is blasphemy. Well I say we must disregard their words, and embrace our feelings of affection toward our fatherly leader. Vote for your favorite honorary title.

I only posted the four main ones. There are other, secondary ones. But those should not be put alongside the main ones.











SILMUN LIMAN SALIMAKUM, AGHA
HARBUN LIMAN HARABAKUM, AGHA

Ya Hagh

Edited by baradar_jackson, 14 February 2011 - 08:21 AM.

[Al-Englisi]

i perfer the leb title - Sayed al-Qaed. The english... 'The Leader' also sounds cool. But from the selection... Wali amr...

[hameedeh]

Rahbar HA

[Tigger]

Vali ol amr-e moslemin (Wali ul-Amr of all Muslims)

I'm curious about the use of the term "all muslims".  

In particular:

(1) does Khamenei consider himself to be the "Wali ul-Amr" of, say, Sunni muslims who live in Norway?

(2) does Khamenei NOT consider himself to be the "Wali ul-Amr"  of non-muslims who live in Iran?

Is it required of all muslims, no matter which sect they belong to or where they live, to consider Khamenei their "Wali ul-Amr"?  Likewise, is it permissible for all non-muslims (including non-muslims living in Iran) to NOT consider Khamenei their "Wali ul-Amr"?

[Gypsy]

Tigger, on 14 February 2011 - 10:03 AM, said:

Vali ol amr-e moslemin (Wali ul-Amr of all Muslims)

I'm curious about the use of the term "all muslims".  

In particular:

(1) does Khamenei consider himself to be the "Wali ul-Amr" of, say, Sunni muslims who live in Norway?

(2) does Khamenei NOT consider himself to be the "Wali ul-Amr"  of non-muslims who live in Iran?

Is it required of all muslims, no matter which sect they belong to or where they live, to consider Khamenei their "Wali ul-Amr"?  Likewise, is it permissible for all non-muslims (including non-muslims living in Iran) to NOT consider Khamenei their "Wali ul-Amr"?

1. No.
He is not even wali al-amr of Shia Muslims who is not connected to Iran

http://www.shiachat....i-not-wali-amr/

[shiasoldier786]

Hassan Nasrallah talking about a Greater Islamic Republic, under the Leadership of the Wali e Faqih.

[hameedeh]

baradar_jackson said:

SILMUN LIMAN SALIMAKUM, AGHA
HARBUN LIMAN HARABAKUM, AGHA

baradar, when you come back on, please translate that.

[macisaac]

baradar_jackson, on 14 February 2011 - 08:14 AM, said:

SILMUN LIMAN SALIMAKUM, AGHA
HARBUN LIMAN HARABAKUM, AGHA

My God....  have you people no shame?  Are you really trying to invent  a new religion?

Hameedeh, on 14 February 2011 - 10:59 AM, said:

baradar, when you come back on, please translate that.

It's taken part of Ziyarat `Ashura addressed to Imam al-Husayn and applied it instead to Khamanei.  I already knew they were trying to compare him to Amir al-Mu'mineen , to being the na'ib of the Imam , and other heretical blasphemies, but this one is new to me.

[Bhooka_Bhairiya]

macisaac, on 14 February 2011 - 12:16 PM, said:

My God....  have you people no shame?  Are you really trying to invent  a new religion?






It's taken part of Ziyarat `Ashura addressed to Imam al-Husayn and applied it instead to Khamanei.  I already knew they were trying to compare him to Amir al-Mu'mineen , to being the na'ib of the Imam , and other heretical blasphemies, but this one is new to me.

But..but...isn't he the amirul momineen? Show some respect to the Imam of our time.

[Ibn Abdullah]

macisaac, on 14 February 2011 - 12:16 PM, said:

My God....  have you people no shame?  Are you really trying to invent  a new religion?

What's wrong with this statement? What are you on about "invent a new religion"; just stay out of it. You people can't let followers of Sayyid Khamenei have one civilised thread to enjoy without coming in unwelcome and dirtying it up. You are free to your opinion but all you people seem to want is to make everybody else as miserable as you are.

Supporters of Sayyid Khamenei (HA) support him for a reason. It's just the same with any Marja3. If you are a follower of Sistani for example, wouldn't you agree that you are at peace with his friends and at war with his enemies? Because you believe Sistani or Khamenei or whomever else is on the true path of Shia Islam and naturally you would think their enemies are enemies of Islam (ENEMIES, not just people who disagree with them; but it seems you people have comprehension difficulties)

Stop trying to blow things out of proportion and cause fitna. Coming here and accusing us of such things, you are the one who should be ashamed of yourself and your ignorance.

Hameedeh, on 14 February 2011 - 10:59 AM, said:

baradar, when you come back on, please translate that.

It means "I am at peace with those who are at peace with you; and I am at war with those who are at war with you". It is talking about Sayyid Khamenei (HA) and I agree with the statement 100%

Edited by Ibn Abdullah, 14 February 2011 - 12:34 PM.

[Sadiq M...]

shiasoldier786, on 14 February 2011 - 10:25 AM, said:

Hassan Nasrallah talking about a Greater Islamic Republic, under the Leadership of the Wali e Faqih.

This video looks like it was taken back in the 80's, when Hezbollah was at its peak when it comes to revolutionary fervor. Since then the organisation has occasionally released a manifesto declaring openly its ideology and objectives, the latest of which was released in 2009.

The political system they envision for Lebanon is alot different today then it was in the 80's, so I don't see how that clip is relevant. It merely gives us an insight into their mentality during the initial stages of the organisations development.

http://www.scribd.co...-Manifesto-2009

[macisaac]

Ibn Abdullah, on 14 February 2011 - 12:32 PM, said:

Stop trying to blow things out of proportion and cause fitna. Coming here and accusing us of such things, you are the one who should be ashamed of yourself and your ignorance.

So it's no big deal to start taking ziyarat addressed to the Ma`sumeen and applying them to a fallible political leader?  And the rest of us are supposed to just sit back and be fine with that when you do these things in the name of our religion?  I guess to you folks that might be no big deal since you've already taken the talbiya addressed to Allah (labbayk Allahumma labbayk) and applied it him.

[Thurston]

Some of you Khamenei worshippers are beyond belief.

[Ibn Abdullah]

macisaac, on 14 February 2011 - 12:42 PM, said:

So it's no big deal to start taking ziyarat addressed to the Ma`sumeen and applying them to a fallible political leader?  And the rest of us are supposed to just sit back and be fine with that when you do these things in the name of our religion?  I guess to you folks that might be no big deal since you've already taken the talibiya addressed to Allah (labbayk Allahumma labbayk) and applied it him.

LOL you really are ridiculous! We are not "taking ziyarat" and "applying" it to Khamenei. The words in question are FROM ziarat Ashura but that's about as far as the connection goes. It's like poetry, and the words are meant to have a strength behind them that resonates from the well known lines of the ziarat. The words aren't divine. We aren't saying "Ya Khamenei seyyed al-shuhada". They are pretty common words but the poetic beauty of them comes from the Ziarat. I sincerely hope you are joking and your basic level of comprehension and understanding isn't really this low.

And what does the Talbiyah have to do with anything? Labbayka Ya Khomeini! Labbayka Ya Khamenei! Labbayka Ya Nasrallah! Labbayka ya Moqtada al-sadr! Is this what you have a problem with? Why are you so literalistic in everyting? Well "Ayatullah" is a title of Isa so therefore we should not apply it to our sholars. The title of "Sayyid" should therefore also be banned because only our Imams are "Sayyids". Do you see how you pick and chose what to follow based on your own hypocrisy and hate?

I bet you are also one of those people who hates Hezbollah (well obviously considering wilayat alfaqih is one of it's pillars and Hezbollah supporters "commit shirk" by saying "Labbayka ya Nasrallah!"). Maybe they shouldn't be called Hezbollah because "Hezbollah" is mentioned in the Quran.

Anyway I'm not going to argue with you because clearly you are just full of hate and discussing this further is only going to escalate the situation. Your stubbornness and close-mindedness means that only Allah can remove the hate that is in your heart and I pray that He does.

Thurston, on 14 February 2011 - 12:59 PM, said:

Some of you Khamenei worshippers are beyond belief.

Another perfectly fine thread ruined by rabid mouth-foaming haters who are hell bent on ruining peoples fun.

"Khamenei worshippers"....LOL.....like....who are you?


PLEASE MODS: Can't we just enjoy one thread without hate and fitna? Oh I'm sorry one of the fitna mongerers is an "admin". How did you get to be an admin of Shia chat? This isn't "lunatic tiny proportion extreme fringe beliefs chat". How is you being an admin fair?

Edited by Ibn Abdullah, 14 February 2011 - 01:15 PM.

[Gypsy]

Few weeks ago, I made a proposal to a number of moderators that we would need to divide the Iran forum into two. One sub-forum forum for the Iran loving crowd and another sub forum for the not so loving crowd. In this case, everyone can be happy discussing whatever he or she wishes without any interference from the other side.

My idea was rejected for being impractical.  

I don’t really know what can make everyone happy. If there is anti-Iran news, you guys are the first one to jump in defending whatever Iran does. If there is something objectionable coming out from Iran loving crowd, then the other side will jump in.

What do we do? Should people not be allowed to express their opinions? Do all of us need to agree with everything at all time?

[kadhim]

Quote

LOL you really are ridiculous! We are not "taking ziyarat" and "applying" it to Khamenei. The words in question are FROM ziarat Ashura but that's about as far as the connection goes. It's like poetry, and the words are meant to have a strength behind them that resonates from the well known lines of the ziarat. The words aren't divine. We aren't saying "Ya Khamenei seyyed al-shuhada". They are pretty common words but the poetic beauty of them comes from the Ziarat. I sincerely hope you are joking and your basic level of comprehension and understanding isn't really this low.

It's simply not appropriate.

[DoubleAgent4]

macisaac, on 14 February 2011 - 12:16 PM, said:

It's taken part of Ziyarat `Ashura addressed to Imam al-Husayn and applied it instead to Khamanei.  I already knew they were trying to compare him to Amir al-Mu'mineen , to being the na'ib of the Imam , and other heretical blasphemies, but this one is new to me.

+1

This is what happens when people from their marjas blindly to the extents that everything else is forgotten...

I voted for Agha as that's the only respect he's getting from me.

Edited by Hawraa29, 14 February 2011 - 04:09 PM.

[baradar_jackson]

macisaac, on 14 February 2011 - 12:16 PM, said:

My God....  have you people no shame?  Are you really trying to invent  a new religion?

I posted this with you in mind.  

And it's not just to express infatuation with the leader, by the way. There is a point to it too. The point being that, because characters like you are so unsavory, we may as well say "fanatical" things that cause you to levy the most vile accusations our way.

In this case, you are essentially accusing us of some combination of blasphemy and apostasy. Correct? I don't think there are many other ways to interpret the statement "trying to invent a new religion."

And I say that's a good thing that you are accusing us in this manner.

The day that macisaac praises the followers of Seyyed Ali Khamenei is the day we should re-assess our words and actions.

Ya Ali

Edited by baradar_jackson, 14 February 2011 - 05:19 PM.

[The Persian Shah]

Ibn Abdullah, very good reply. +1. Unfortunately, anyone here long enough will realise there is a not a single one of these threads which these small minds (mac) unable to grasp certain turths cannot not troll. Whenever some more knowledgeable poster enters the thread (not me), he immediately flees on the account of wasting time. There is without a shadow of doubt, no problem in the veracity of statements like being the na`ib of the Imam [AJTF], or being the amir of the momineen. The former being justified through the numerous textual injunctions, ahadith and tauqee of the Imam [AJTF] which delegates affairs to the `ulema after him in a general and universal way. The latter being justified by the very fact of actually being the ruler of a faithful nation. How is this heresy? macisaac knows these things well too, but as you said all his comments like to paint a straw man fallacious argument and only create fitna and confusion. He never enters discussion, arrogant takfir upon the rest of us Shia suffices for him. And unfortunately since gaining power, his extremist talibani ideology has manifested in action. Because he can't intellectually defend himself, he (and his ilk) thinks he can silence pro-IRI members and comments by threats ("warnings"), censoring threads/posts, putting me on mod preview for 3 months, vetoing users demands. All on the account of "posting heresy" (heresy according to his weird mind) - whilst simultaneously mocking the police of the IRI as being "over-intrusive"..

No matter how many times I am harassed for speaking out against these blatantly absurd actions, I will continue to fight for this truth, either until he stops being a taliban or at least leaves office and the rest of us in peace..

"Stop trying to blow things out of proportion and cause fitna. Coming here and accusing us of such things, you are the one who should be ashamed of yourself and your ignorance."

SILMUN LIMAN SALIMAKUM, AGHA
HARBUN LIMAN HARABAKUM, AGHA

LABBAYK KHAMENEI

[repenter]

shiasoldier786, on 14 February 2011 - 10:25 AM, said:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t4OISRvkVIw

Hassan Nasrallah talking about a Greater Islamic Republic, under the Leadership of the Wali e Faqih.

If only more people joined under the same banner.

[Nader Zaveri]

Ibn Abdullah, on 14 February 2011 - 01:13 PM, said:

And what does the Talbiyah have to do with anything? Labbayka Ya Khomeini! Labbayka Ya Khamenei! Labbayka Ya Nasrallah! Labbayka ya Moqtada al-sadr! Is this what you have a problem with? Why are you so literalistic in everyting? Well "Ayatullah" is a title of Isa so therefore we should not apply it to our sholars. The title of "Sayyid" should therefore also be banned because only our Imams are "Sayyids". Do you see how you pick and chose what to follow based on your own hypocrisy and hate?

You do realize someone addressed our 6th Imaam as "Labbayk Ya Ja`far bin Muhammad Labbayk" (لَبَّيْكَ يَا جَعْفَرَ بْنَ مُحَمَّدٍ لَبَّيْكَ), and the Imaam was scared because of what the person has said to him . The Imaam went into sajdah and baraa'a (disassociated) himself from that comment.

The worse part is that people are doing this to a non-ma`soom! And what is even worse is those figures hear the people address them as such and they allow people to say this. Which is horrible.

Edited by Nader Zaveri, 14 February 2011 - 09:35 PM.

[Abdullah88]

The Persian Shah, on 14 February 2011 - 06:22 PM, said:

Ibn Abdullah, very good reply. +1. Unfortunately, anyone here long enough will realise there is a not a single one of these threads which these small minds (mac) unable to grasp certain turths cannot not troll. Whenever some more knowledgeable poster enters the thread (not me), he immediately flees on the account of wasting time. There is without a shadow of doubt, no problem in the veracity of statements like being the na`ib of the Imam [AJTF], or being the amir of the momineen. The former being justified through the numerous textual injunctions, ahadith and tauqee of the Imam [AJTF] which delegates affairs to the `ulema after him in a general and universal way. The latter being justified by the very fact of actually being the ruler of a faithful nation. How is this heresy? macisaac knows these things well too, but as you said all his comments like to paint a straw man fallacious argument and only create fitna and confusion. He never enters discussion, arrogant takfir upon the rest of us Shia suffices for him. And unfortunately since gaining power, his extremist talibani ideology has manifested in action. Because he can't intellectually defend himself, he (and his ilk) thinks he can silence pro-IRI members and comments by threats ("warnings"), censoring threads/posts, putting me on mod preview for 3 months, vetoing users demands. All on the account of "posting heresy" (heresy according to his weird mind) - whilst simultaneously mocking the police of the IRI as being "over-intrusive"..

No matter how many times I am harassed for speaking out against these blatantly absurd actions, I will continue to fight for this truth, either until he stops being a taliban or at least leaves office and the rest of us in peace..

"Stop trying to blow things out of proportion and cause fitna. Coming here and accusing us of such things, you are the one who should be ashamed of yourself and your ignorance."

SILMUN LIMAN SALIMAKUM, AGHA
HARBUN LIMAN HARABAKUM, AGHA

LABBAYK KHAMENEI

Salaam PersianShah

While 90% of what you said is correct and i am in agreement, however the title 'amir al momineen".  I think the imams (A) themselves specified this title is reserved for Amir Al momineen ali (A). So please do make a correction.
unless I'm mistaken of course..
with prayers

SILMUN LIMAN SALIMAKUM, AGHA

[Gypsy]

I have seen hadeeths forbidding anyone using the title of Amir ul Mu'mineen. The only person who can use this title is Imam Ali(as) because they was an order from the Imams of ahlul bayt or the Holy Prophet forbidding the usage of the title Amir ul Mu'mineen.

We have discussed this before
http://www.shiachat....er-ul-momineen/

Other links http://en.wikipedia....mir_al-Mu'minin

What about the rest of other titles and quotes from duas/ziyarahs? Are we allowed to use them at will since we are not explicitly forbidden from using them?

[baradar_jackson]

Time to revive an old video. Adorable (and porru) little girl recites a poem for the leader:



Ya Ali

[Tigger]

Since Khamenei calls himself the "Wali ul-Amr of all Muslims", what does he expect from the world's muslims?  For example, does he expect all muslims everywhere to consider him to be the highest religious authority on earth?  Under Iranian law, is there a punishment for muslims who refuse to acknowledge him as their leader?  Obviously, the vast majority of the world's muslims, and in all probability even the vast majority of the world's Twelver Shiites, do not consider him their leader, in either a religious or political sense.