neutralsage3, on 01 February 2011 - 06:58 PM, said:
Dear Prince Visram, Salamun Alaikum and Ya Ali Madad.
whats the ismaeli position on muta ? (and also the anal sex and masturbation , former is accepted by ithnashariya and latter by ahle sunna).
My question is purely for learning purpose and asked respectfully.
I abide be the following forum rules so plez stop deleting my membership:
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Salam alaykum,
May Allah Be your companion.
According to Qadi al-numan in his Da'a'im al-islam it is Forbidden,the Qadi also calls it ''Zina''.He quotes a Hadith From ali and Imam Jafar Al-Sadiq that Forbids it.
ismailiyyah do not Beleive muhammad al-nabi ever ordered muta.rather ibn abbas was mistaken on his interpretation on 4:24 and later his abbassid descendants -enemeis of the Fatimids-propogated muta in sunni books to make their grandfather look correct.
i shall mention ismaili''Refutation''to Muta.
Peace Be With You all.
neutralsage3, on 01 February 2011 - 06:58 PM, said:
Dear Prince Visram, Salamun Alaikum and Ya Ali Madad.
whats the ismaeli position on muta ? (and also the anal sex and masturbation , former is accepted by ithnashariya and latter by ahle sunna).
My question is purely for learning purpose and asked respectfully.
I abide be the following forum rules so plez stop deleting my membership:
Forum Terms & Rules
Please take a moment to review these rules detailed below. If you agree with them and wish to proceed with the registration, simply click the "Register" button below. To cancel this registration, simply hit the 'back' button on your browser.
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We Read in chp 10 Book of marriage Kitab al-Nikah pg 215 al-shurut fil nikah(The conditions in marriage)by qadhi numan-The Messenger of God:He Declared Temporary Marriage to Be Forbidden.
Ali(Õáì Çááå Úáíå æ Çáåý):He Said,A Valid Marriage with a Guardian and two witnesses,but no for one or two dirhams,or for one or Two Days.This is Debauchery(sifah)an is not a valid condition in marriage,
Jafar b.muhammad(Úáíå ÇáÓáÇãý):A man asked him about muta marriage,(The Imam)Saidescribe it to me'',The man Said:A man meets a woman and says ''i Shall marry you for this dirham or for two dirhams,for one communion or for one or two days''(the Imam )Said:This is unlawfull intercourse,and no one but a immoral person acts thus.
The Refutation of the muta marriage is contained in the quran,for God Says:And those who Guard their modesty-save from their wives or the that wich their right hand possess,For Then They Are not BlameWorthy.But Whomsoever Craveth Beyoind that,Such are the Transgressors(23:5-7)...
''that is a Excerpt From Qadi al-numan's Da'a'im al-islam.
Ali (Õáì Çááå Úáíå æ Çáåý ) said:
“The Messenger of Allah had forbidden Mutah on the day of Khaybar and had forbidden the eating of the meat of domestic camels.” [Bukhari, Muslim, Tirmizy, Ibn Majah, Nasa`i, Tahawy, Shafi’i, Bayhaqy, and Hazimy]
Ali (Õáì Çááå Úáíå æ Çáåý ) said to a man who was engaging in Mutah:
“You are a straying person, the Messenger of Allah has forbidden temporary marriage and the meat of domestic camels on the day of Khaybar.” [Muslim and Bayhaqy]
When Ali (Õáì Çááå Úáíå æ Çáåý ) was given the Caliphate, he thanked Allah Most High and praised Him and said:
“O people, the Messenger of Allah had permitted Mutah three times then forbade it. I swear by Allah, ready to fulfil my oath, that if I find any person who engages in temporary marriage without having ratified this with a proper marriage, I will have him lashed 100 stripes unless he can bring two witnesses to prove that the Messenger had permitted it after forbidding it.” [Ibn Majah]
Narrated Ali (Õáì Çááå Úáíå æ Çáåý ):
“Allah’s Messenger forbade the temporary marriage in the year of Khaybar.” [Sahih Muslim and Sahih Bukhari]
Narrated Ali (Õáì Çááå Úáíå æ Çáåý ):
“At the battle of Khaybar, the Prophet forbade the temporary marriage (i.e Mutah) of women, and the eating of the flesh of domestic asses.” [Sahih Bukhari, Sahih Muslim, Ahmad, An-Nasa’i, At-Termidhi and Ibn Majah have all collected it]
It was narrated from Ali (Õáì Çááå Úáíå æ Çáåý )that:
The Messenger of Allah forbade Mutah marriage and the meat of domestic donkeys at the time of Khaybar. According to another report, he forbade Mutah marriage at the time of Khaybar and he forbade the meat of tame donkeys. [Narrated by Bukhari, 3979; Muslim, 1407.]
neutralsage3, on 01 February 2011 - 06:58 PM, said:
Dear Prince Visram, Salamun Alaikum and Ya Ali Madad.
whats the ismaeli position on muta ? (and also the anal sex and masturbation , former is accepted by ithnashariya and latter by ahle sunna).
My question is purely for learning purpose and asked respectfully.
I abide be the following forum rules so plez stop deleting my membership:
Forum Terms & Rules
Please take a moment to review these rules detailed below. If you agree with them and wish to proceed with the registration, simply click the "Register" button below. To cancel this registration, simply hit the 'back' button on your browser.
Please remember that we are not responsible for any messages posted. We do not vouch for or warrant the accuracy, completeness or usefulness of any message, and are not responsible for the contents of any message.
The messages express the views of the author of the message, not necessarily the views of this bulletin board. Any user who feels that a posted message is objectionable is encouraged to contact us immediately by email. We have the ability to remove objectionable messages and we will make every effort to do so, within a reasonable time frame, if we determine that removal is necessary.
You agree, through your use of this service, that you will not use this bulletin board to post any material which is knowingly false and/or defamatory, inaccurate, abusive, vulgar, hateful, harassing, obscene, profane, sexually oriented, threatening, invasive of a person's privacy, or otherwise violative of any law.
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Nikāḥ al-Mut‘ah (Arabic: äßÇÍ ÇáãÊÚÉý marriage), or sigheh (Persian), is a fixed-term Marriage in Shi'a Islam. The duration of this type of marriage is fixed at its inception and is then automatically dissolved upon completion of its term. The marriage is contractual and is subject to renewal. Financial payments may be made between the couple, usually with the male paying the female known as mahr or dower.
Anyway:
1.Muta has a Neccassery Mahr(ãåÑý
2.Muta is Seen by most Muslims to Equal Prostitution,However Twelver shi'a Muslims Object Since a Wome PErforming Muta Musb Wait The Iddah Period.(ÇáÚÏÉý
Al Baqarah 2:234 If any of you die and leave widows behind, they shall wait concerning themselves four months and ten days: When they have fulfilled their term, there is no blame on you if they dispose of themselves in a just and reasonable manner. And Allah is well acquainted with what ye do. (Yusuf Ali)
3.Twelvers Will Claim Umar Banned muta,and not The Prophet so they Say,Muta Is Still Halal.
4 Sunnis,Zaydis,ad Isma'ilis and Ibadhis All Say The Quran 4:24 is ment for Mahr After Nikah and Not Muta.However Twelvers Claim it is Revealed For Muta:æóÇáúãõÍúÕóäóÇÊõ ãöäó ÇáäöøÓóÇÁÅöáÇóøãóÇ ãóáóßóÊú ÃóíúãóÇäõßõãú ßöÊóÇÈó Çááøåö Úóáóíúßõãú æóÃõÍöáóø áóßõã ãóøÇ æóÑóÇÁ Ðóáößõãú Ãóä ÊóÈúÊóÛõæÇú ÈöÃóãúæóÇáößõã ãõøÍúÕöäöíäó ÛóíúÑó ãõÓóÇÝöÍöíäó ÝóãóÇ ÇÓúÊóãúÊóÚúÊõã Èöåö ãöäúåõäóø ÝóÂÊõæåõäóø ÃõÌõæÑóåõäóø ÝóÑöíÖóÉð æóáÇó ÌõäóÇÍó Úóáóíúßõãú ÝöíãóÇ ÊóÑóÇÖóíúÊõã Èöåö ãöä ÈóÚúÏö ÇáúÝóÑöíÖóÉö Åöäóø Çááøåó ßóÇäó ÚóáöíãðÇ Íóßöíãð
And (alsWaalmuhsanatu mina alnnisa-iillama malakat aymanukumkitabaAllahi AAalaykum waohilla lakum ma waraa thalikum an tabtaghoo bi-amwalikum muhsineena ghayra musafiheena fama istamtaAAtum bihi minhunna faatoohunna ojoorahunna fareedatan wala junaha AAalaykum feema taradaytum bihi min baAAdi alfareedati inna Allaha kana AAaleeman hakeemano forbidden are) all married women except those whom your right hands possess (this is) Allah's ordinance to you,
and lawful for you are (all women) besides those, provided that you seek (them) with your property, taking (them) in marriage not committing fornication.
Then as to those whom you profit by, give them their dowries as appointed; and there is no blame on you about what you mutually agree after what is appointed; surely Allah is Knowing, Wise.
— translated by M. H. Shakir
Twelvers Say ''Istimtatum bihi Minhunna''means ''Then as those whom you make muta By'''Whereas We Say Istimta means Benefit ,and the Verse means when You have Beenfitted with them,give them Their Ajer(Mahr),and that''there is no blame on you about what you mutually agree after what is appointed''does not Mean Extending the Muta contract but means here is no blame on Making future Plans.
Twelvers Will Say That Quran æóÂÊõæÇ ÇáäöÓóÇÁ ÕóÏõÞóÇÊöåöäøó äöÍúáóÉ ð ÝóÅöäú ØöÈúäó áóßõãú Úóäú ÔóíúÁ ò ãöäúåõ äóÝúÓÇ ð Ýóßõáõæå õõ åóäöíÆÇ ð ãóÑöíÆÇ ''4:4 wa aatun nisaa-a Saduqaatihin-na niHlah* fain Tibna lakum 'An shay'im minhu nafsan fa kuluuhu haniy-am mariy'aa ''
And give to the women (whom you marry) their Mahr (obligatory bridal money given by the husband to his wife at the time of marriage) with a good heart, but if they, of their own good pleasure, remit any part of it to you, take it, and enjoy it without fear of any harm (as Allāh has made it lawful). (An-Nisa 4:4)
contradicts Our Viewpoint since the Ayah 4:4 describes Mahr as a '''Free gift'''Whereas sura 4:24 Describes m,ahr as a '''Ujūrahunna Farīđatan ''Or Mahr Wich is Stipulated
Therefore 2:24 must Refer toa Different kind of Marriage.i.e Mutah
Our Answer :
Our Answer to this is the Reason the Mahr in 4:24 is Described as Ujuruhunna Faridatan is Because it is the Second Mahr After consumation wich is (Allahu alim)Optional
whereas the one mentioend in 4:4 is Wajib.
Both sunnis and shi'as beleive in the Obligatory and Optional Mahr's.
We say that :æóãóäú áóãú íóÓúÊóØöÚú ãöäúßõãú ØóæúáÇð Ãóäú íóäßöÍó ÇáúãõÍúÕóäóÇÊö ÇáúãõÄúãöäóÇÊö Ýóãöäú ãóÇ ãóáóßóÊú ÃóíúãóÇäõßõãú ãöäú ÝóÊóíóÇÊößõãõ ÇáúãõÄúãöäóÇÊö æóÇááøóåõ ÃóÚúáóãõ ÈöÅöíãóÇäößõãú ÈóÚúÖõßõãú ãöäú ÈóÚúÖ ò ÝóÇäßöÍõæåõäøó ÈöÅöÐúäö Ãóåúáöåöäøó æóÂÊõæåõäøó ÃõÌõæÑóåõäøó ÈöÇáúãóÚúÑõæÝö ãõÍúÕóäóÇÊò ÛóíúÑó ãõÓóÇÝöÍóÇÊ ò æóáÇó ãõÊøóÎöÐóÇÊö ÃóÎúÏóÇä ò ÝóÅöÐóÇ ÃõÍúÕöäøó ÝóÅöäú ÃóÊóíúäó ÈöÝóÇÍöÔóÉ ò ÝóÚóáóíúåöäøó äöÕúÝõ ãóÇ Úóáóì ÇáúãõÍúÕóäóÇÊö ãöäó ÇáúÚóÐóÇÈö Ðóáößó áöãóäú ÎóÔöíó ÇáúÚóäóÊó ãöäúßõãú æóÃóäú ÊóÕúÈöÑõæÇ ÎóíúÑ ñ áóßõãú æóÇááøóåõ ÛóÝõæÑ ñ ÑóÍöíã Wa Man Lam Yastaţi` Minkum Ţawlāan 'An Yankiĥa Al-Muĥşanāti Al-Mu'umināti Famin Mā Malakat 'Aymānukum Min Fatayātikumu Al-Mu'umināti Wa Allāhu 'A`lamu Bi'īmānikum Ba`đukum Min Ba`đin Fānkiĥūhunna Bi'idhni 'Ahlihinna Wa 'Ātūhunna 'Ujūrahunna Bil-Ma`rūfi Muĥşanātin Ghayra Musāfiĥātin Wa Lā Muttakhidhāti 'Akhdānin Fa'idhā 'Uĥşinna Fa'in 'Atayna Bifāĥishatin Fa`alayhinna Nişfu Mā `Alá Al-Muĥşanāti Mina Al-`Adhābi Dhālika Liman Khashiya Al-`Anata Minkum Wa 'An Taşbirū Khayrun Lakum Wa Allāhu Ghafūrun Raĥīmun
And whoever of you have not the means wherewith to wed free, believing women, they may wed believing girls from among those (captives and slaves) whom your right hands possess, and Allāh has full knowledge about your Faith, you are one from another. Wed them with the permission of their own folk (guardians, Auliyā' or masters) and give them their Mahr according to what is reasonable; they (the above said captive and slave-girls) should be chaste, not adulterous, nor taking boy-friends. And after they have been taken in wedlock, if they commit illegal sexual intercourse, their punishment is half that for free (unmarried) women. This is for him among you who is afraid of being harmed in his religion or in his body; but it is better for you that you practise selfrestraint, and Allāh is OftForgiving, Most Merciful. (An-Nisa 4:25)Refutes Muta ''Notice''Muĥşanātin Ghayra Musāfiĥātin Wa Lā Muttakhidhāti 'Akhdānin '''Not Lustfull Nor Taking Paramours.
Whereas Muta is for the Satisfaction Of Lust.
''Wed them with the permission of their own folk (guardians, Auliyā' or masters) and give them their Mahr according to what is reasonable; they (the above said captive and slave-girls) should be chaste, not adulterous, nor taking boy-friends. '''''Now Muta needs No Wali,it Can be Done without The Permission of a Wali .And Muta Can Be Done With a Prostitute.
This Contradicts The Verse.
He also says: {And as for those of you who, owing to cir¬cumstances, are not in a position to marry free believing women, [let them marry] believing maidens} (Q. 4:25). If temporary marriage was permissible, it would not be a proof against the marriage of the community. Consequently, it would produce children who are from owned slaves. Nothing would distinguish these marriages except the condition of fear of constraint (al-`anat). He then says: {It is best for you to remain patient} (Q. 4:25).
Now,If Muta Were a Option,Allah Would not Tell The Beleivers To Practice Self-Restraint.
We Say The Abbassids Produced Hadith in favour Of Muta Because Abdullah Ibn abbas there Ancestor Beleived in Muta.
they Wanted To Force The Whole Ummah Into This View.
Pagan Origins Of Mutah
Ammianus Marcellinus
The following are taken from Ammianus Marcellinus' book "The Roman History, Book XIV.iv.1-7." (380 AD)
Book XIV.4:
At this time also the Saracens, a race whom it is never desirable to have either for friends or enemies, ranging up and down the country, if ever they found anything, plundered it in a moment, like rapacious hawks who, if from on high they behold any prey, carry it off with a rapid swoop, or, if they fail in their attempt, do not tarry. And although, in recounting the career of the Prince Marcus, and once or twice subsequently, I remember having discussed the manners of this people, nevertheless I will now briefly enumerate a few more particulars concerning them.
Among these tribes, whose primary origin is derived from the cataracts of the Nile and the borders of the Blemmyae, all the men are warriors of equal rank; half naked, clad in colored cloaks down to the waist, overrunning different countries, with the aid of swift and active horses and speedy camels, alike in times of peace and war. Nor does any member of their tribe ever take plow in hand or cultivate a tree, or seek food by the tillage of the land; but they are perpetually wandering over various and extensive districts, having no home, no fixed abode or laws; nor can they endure to remain long in the same climate, no one district or country pleasing them for a continuance.
Their life is one continued wandering; their wives are hired, on special covenant, for a fixed time; and that there may be some appearance of marriage in the business, the intended wife, under the name of a dowry, offers a spear and a tent to her husband, with a right to quit him after a fixed day, if she should choose to do so. And it is inconceivable with what eagerness the individuals of both sexes give themselves up to matrimonial pleasures.
But as long as they live they wander about with such extensive and perpetual migrations, that the woman is married in one place, brings forth her children in another, and rears them at a distance from either place, no opportunity of remaining quiet being ever granted to her. They all live on venison, and are further supported on a great abundance of milk, and on many kinds of herbs, and on whatever birds they can catch by fowling. And we have seen a great many of them wholly ignorant of the use of either corn or wine.
source:nabataea.net/arabia.html -
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