42 replies to this topic

[apples69]

If a man is unable to find a muslim female for mutah, can the man do mutah with prostitute/escort (non muslim), is this halal or would it be classed as fornification and be wrong?

[Replicant]

http://www.tashayyu....ith-fornication

[apples69]

Replicant, on 02 January 2011 - 07:35 PM, said:

http://www.tashayyu....ith-fornication

in the uk, it is almost impossible to find the channels for mutah with a muslim lady, so in order to avoid the haram, i have been told that some scholars have said that it is permissable to have mutah with a lady who is known as a prostitue/escort (who receives money for the service) as long as you ready the mutah verse to her and explain that it is a temp marriage for say the 1hr or 2hr and then when she agree you can give the dowry

opinion amongst scholars is that its makrooh  to contract mutaah with a woman who is known for fornication (including prostitutes.)makrooh means its halal but not preferred.

some times a person is better off doing a makrooh than doing a haraam.  There is no sin in doing a makrooh act  and its not punishable however its not advised.

obviously the marriage to a prostitute is a last resort to avoid falling into haraam.

Grand Ayatollah Sayyad Mohammad Saeed Al- Hakeem  has allowed mutah with a prostitute if you cant find a muslim lady, see http://www.shiachat....h-a-prostitute/

i just want a clear verdict, is it halal if it is the only way for you to stop doing the haram, because i dont want to do mutah with a prostitute in the uk and then to realise its classed as fornication and not allowed, some people say its halal and some say its haram, so who do you follow?

Just wanted to add that Ayatullah Khamenei also allows marriage with a prostitute (though he labels it makrooh)

Q: Is it permissible to do mut‘ah with a woman who commits zinā or with a prostitute?
A: It is reprehensible to marry a woman who commits zinā, especially if she is known to be a prostitute

http://www.shiachat....__50__start__50

i know this topic has been posted before and i dont want to repeat the same things, can we have a yes or no on this so myself and others with the same question have a definite answer and wont keep asking the same question on mutah with a prositiute

http://www.leader.ir...ee/38/index.php

[awkwardsalafiLOL]

Brother please read this fatwa on mut'ah

http://www.islam-qa....porary marriage

[Bhooka_Bhairiya]

awkwardsalafiLOL, on 28 January 2011 - 06:48 PM, said:

Brother please read this fatwa on mut'ah

http://www.islam-qa....porary marriage

Sunni/salafi/wahabi junk is meaningless for us. Mutah is for MEN, not henpeck effeminates.

[Shay]

apples69, on 02 January 2011 - 07:15 PM, said:

If a man is unable to find a muslim female for mutah, can the man do mutah with prostitute/escort (non muslim), is this halal or would it be classed as fornification and be wrong?

[Edited Out] whats the world coming to if people are actually seriously asking questions like this!

http://www.who.int/h...e/en/index.html

[Ya Baqiyatullah (aj)]

I think this topic should be trashed

[Gypsy]

Maybe pause a little bit here and read

Qur'an 24:26

Quote

Yusuf Ali translation: "Women impure are for men impure, and men impure for women impure and women of purity are for men of purity, and men of purity are for women of purity . . ."
Marmaduke Pickthall translation: "Vile women are for vile men, and vile men for vile women. Good women are for good men, and good men for good women . . ."
M.H. Shakir translation: "Bad women are for bad men and bad men are for bad women. Good women are for good men and good men are for good women.

Sistani and Khamenei

Quote

Q40) Can a Muslim do Muta with a prostitute in order to satisfy his physical needs?
A40) Marrying a woman who is known publicly as an adulterer is not permissible as a measure of precaution except after repentance (tawbah).

http://www.alulbayt.com/rulings/11.htm

Quote

Marrying a Prostitute
Q: Is it permissible to do mut‘ah with a woman who commits zinā or with a prostitute?
A: It is reprehensible to marry a woman who commits zinā, especially if she is known to be a prostitute.

Scroll all the way to marriage
http://www.leader.ir...ex.php?catid=38

[macisaac]

Zareen, on 30 January 2011 - 11:22 AM, said:

Marrying a Prostitute
Q: Is it permissible to do mut‘ah with a woman who commits zinā or with a prostitute?
A: It is reprehensible to marry a woman who commits zinā, especially if she is known to be a prostitute.

Actually, that would be saying it's makrooh (i.e. not haram).

[BabyBeaverIsAKit]

^Really? That's not quite how I understand it. Someone might want to check. Dictionary.com definition of reprehensible: "deserving of reproof, rebuke, or censure; blameworthy."
If a man does mutah with a prostitute, he should do Muslim females a favor by not marrying one of them. That way, you will have saved a Muslim woman from getting STDs.

[macisaac]

While our selves might tell us one thing in regards to this (whether we think it is acceptable or not), determining the laws of the Shari`a doesn't work that way, i.e. they are not based on our own personal predilections and wants.  

Looking at the hadiths, I can understand why some fuqaha have said it would be permissible though makrooh.  That is, the fact of the woman being a fornicatress (doing the haram) not rendering the halal itself to be haram.  While married to her, in fact she would be being taken out of the haram for that time period.  So, fiqh-wise, they would say it is ja'iz.  This one here seems about the most explicit narration I know of on this one:


[ 26439 ] 3 ـ وبإسناده عن الحسن بن محبوب ، عن إسحاق بن جرير قال : قلت لابي عبدالله ( عليه السلام ) : إن عندنا بالكوفة امرأة معروفة بالفجور ، أيحل أن أتزوجها متعة ؟ قال : فقال : رفعت راية ؟ قلت : لا ، لو رفعت راية أخذها السلطان ، قال : نعم تزوجها متعة ، قال : ثم أصغى إلى بعض مواليه فأسر إليه شيئا ، فلقيت مولاه فقلت له : ما قال لك ؟ فقال : انما قال لي : ولو رفعت راية ما كان عليه في فتزويجها شئ إنما يخرجها من حرام إلى حلال .



3 – And by his isnad from al-Hasan b. Mahbub from Ishaq b. Jarir.  He said: I said to Abu `Abdillah عليه السلام: Verily in Kufa there is a woman with us who is known for promiscuity.  Is it allowed to marry her in mut`a?  He said: So he said: Did she raise a standard?  I said: No, had she raised a standard the Sultan would have arrested her.  He said: Yes, marry her in mut`a.  He said: Then he listened to one of his slaves  (or, supporters, or, clients) and confided something to him.  So I met his slave and said to him: What did he say to you?  So he said: He only said to me: Even if she had raised a standard there would not be anything against the marriage. It only takes her out from a haram to a halal.

I'm not positive what raising a standard (i.e. a flag) would mean, but the context would seem to indicate to me it means she was a prostitute (e.g. the Sultan would arrest her).


Another one:


[ 26440 ] 4 ـ علي بن عيسي في ( كشف الغمة ) نقلا من كتاب ( الدلائل ) لعبدالله بن جعفر الحميري ، عن الحسن بن ظريف قال : كتبت إلى أبي محمد ( عليه السلام ) : قد تركت التمتع ثلاثين سنة ، ثم نشطت لذلك ، وكان في الحي امرأة وصفت لي بالجمال ، فمال قلبي اليها ، وكانت عاهرا لا تمنع يد لامس فكرهتها ، ثم قلت : قد قال الائمة ( عليهم السلام ) : تمتع بالفاجرة فإنك تخرجها من حرام إلى حلال ، فكتبت إلى أبي محمد ( عليه السلام ) أشاوره في المتعة وقلت : أيجوز بعد هذه السنين أن أتمتع ؟ فكتب : انما تحيي سنة وتميت بدعة فلا بأس ، وإياك وجارتك المعروفة بالعهر ، وإن حدثتك نفسك أن آبائي قالوا : تمتع بالفاجرة فانك تخرجها من حرام إلى حلال ، فان هذه امرأة معروفة بالهتك وهي جارة وأخاف عليك استفاضة الخبر منها . فتركتها ولم أتمتع بها ، وتمتّع بها شاذان بن سعد رجل من إخواننا وجيراننا فاشتهر بها حتى علا أمره ، وصار إلى السلطان وغرم بسببها مالا نفيسا وأعاذني الله من ذلك ببركة سيدي


4 - `Ali b. `Isa in Kashf al-Ghumma transmitting from the book ad-Dala’il of `Abdullah b. Ja`far al-Himyari (narrating) from al-Hasan b. Zharif.  He said: I wrote to Abu Muhammad عليه السلام: I had abandoned mut`a for thirty years, then I felt like doing that.  And there was a woman in the neighborhood who was described to me as beautiful, so my heart inclined to her.  But, she was an adulteress not preventing a toucher’s hand, so I disliked her.  Then I said: The Imams عليهم السلام have said: Marry the dissolute woman for verily you take her out from a haram to a halal.  So I wrote to Abu Muhammad عليه السلام taking his counsel in regards to the mut`a, and I said: Is it permissible after this age that I do mut`a?  So he said: You are only revivifying a sunna and making an innovation die, so there is no harm.  And beware you of your neighbor who is known for adultery.  And if your self told you that my fathers said: Do mut`a with the dissolute woman for verily you take her out from a haram to a halal, then this woman is known for disclosing and she is a neighbor, and I fear for you the spreading of the report from her.  So I left her and did not do mut`a with her.  And Shadhan b. Sa`d, a man from our brethren and neighbors, did mut`a with her, and he became famous with it (or, her) until his affair went up and reached the Sultan.  And because of it, he was fined with a costly property.  And Allah preserved me from that by the blessing of my master.


So again, it is showing permissibility even though the Imam advised against it in this case in order to protect his follower from the authorities.

However... it's also very clear from the ahadith that really one should be looking for a woman is both a mu'mina _and_ chaste.  So ethically speaking, while mut`a with the zaniyya would be considered halal and thus the person engaging in it is not committing zina themselves, still, one should look to marrying (ethically, ideally) pure women.  Such as:


[ 26433 ] 1 ـ محمد بن يعقوب ، عن محمد بن يحيى ، عن أحمد بن محمد ، عن محمد بن إسماعيل قال : سأل رجل أبا الحسن الرضا ( عليه السلام ) وأنا أسمع عن رجل يتزوج المرأة متعة ويشترط عليها أن لا يطلب ولدها ـ إلى أن قال : ـ فقال : لا ينبغي لك أن تتزوج إلا بمؤمنة أو مسلمة ، فإن الله عز وجل يقول : ( الزاني لا ينكح إلا زانية أو مشركة والزانية لا ينكحها إلا زان أو مشرك وحرم ذلك على المؤمنين ) .

ورواه الشيخ بإسناده عن أحمد بن محمد ، مثله ، إلا أنه قال : لا تتزوج إلا بمأمونة .

ورواه الصدوق بإسناده عن محمد بن إسماعيل ، مثله .



1 – Muhammad b. Ya`qub from Muhammad b. Yahya from Muhammad b. Isma`il.  He said: A man asked Abu ‘l-Hasan ar-Rida عليه السلام and I was listening, about a man who marries the woman in mut`a and puts a condition upon her that he will not seek her child – until he said: So he said: It is not appropriate for you to marry (anyone) but a mu’mina or a muslima, so verily Allah عز وجل  says “The fornicator does not marry but a fornicatress or an idolatress and the fornicatress is not married but to a fornicator or an idolator.  And that is forbidden upon the believers” (24:3)

And the Shaykh narrated it by his isnad from Ahmad b. Muhammad likewise except that he said: you do not marry (anyone) but a trustworthy woman.

And as-Saduq narrated by his isnad from Muhammad b. Isma`il likewise.

and


[ 26436 ] 4 ـ وعن علي بن إبراهيم ، عن محمد بن عيسى ، عن يونس ، عن محمد بن الفضيل قال : سألت أبا الحسن ( عليه السلام ) عن المرأة الحسناء الفاجرة ، هل تحب للرجل أن يتمتع منها يوما أو أكثر ؟ فقال : إذا كانت مشهورة بالزنا فلا يتمتع منها ولا ينكحها .


4 – And from `Ali b. Ibrahim from Muhammad b. `Isa from Yunus from Muhammad b. al-Fudayl.  He said: I asked Abu ‘l-Hasan عليه السلام about the beautiful dissolute woman, is it beloved [is it permissible – in al-Kafi] for the man to do mut`a with her for a day or more?  So he said: If she is famous with fornication, then do not do mut`a with her and do not marry her.


When you have an apparent contradiction like that on the surface at least in the akhbar (some saying you can do something, some saying don't do it), a common way of reconciling it is to say the act is permissible but makrooh, so perhaps that is why some fuqaha have ruled this way on this issue.

Precaution however, which some other fuqaha have ruled by, would tell you to stay away from it, and of course precaution is the safest path to take here.  Committing zina is extremely serious, and one does not want even if by accident to be engaging in it.  

BabyBeaverIsAKit, on 30 January 2011 - 11:37 AM, said:

^Really? That's not quite how I understand it. Someone might want to check. Dictionary.com definition of reprehensible: "deserving of reproof, rebuke, or censure; blameworthy."
If a man does mutah with a prostitute, he should do Muslim females a favor by not marrying one of them. That way, you will have saved a Muslim woman from getting STDs.

I'm pretty positive they are translating makrooh here as "reprehensible".  If they thought it was haram, they'd clearly say it is haram, not permissible, or what have you.  It's just the way jurists write these responses.  So maybe one would say he would appear to be trying to discourage it stating it's being makrooh, still, what is being said implicitly is that it is still ja'iz none the less.

Now... all that being said, there's the whole other issue in regards to the permissibility of marrying non-Muslim women period.  And for that there has been a lot of varying views, ranging from totally haram (even in mut`a) to permissible (even permanently).  And the discussion on that brings in a whole host of other proofs and arguments from the Quran and ahadith.

apples69, on 03 January 2011 - 05:38 AM, said:

in the uk, it is almost impossible to find the channels for mutah with a muslim lady

I don't live in the UK, and I doubt it's all that easy to contract, but I think it'd be an exaggeration to say it's impossible (or almost impossible).  And even if mut`a were "impossible", there is still permanent marriage of course.

Quote

i just want a clear verdict, is it halal if it is the only way for you to stop doing the haram

I realize this isn't answering your question, but how in the world is going with a prostitute the "only" way to stop doing the haram?  Self control while it might not be pleasant is not impossible.  And if someone is that desperate they go with a prostitute to save themselves from the haram, what will they do once their desires come back (as they will) after they've had their initial satisfaction?  Keep going back to hookers?  Is that the type of life one wants to live?

[amina1989]

macisaac, on 30 January 2011 - 12:08 PM, said:

While our selves might tell us one thing in regards to this (whether we think it is acceptable or not), determining the laws of the Shari`a doesn't work that way, i.e. they are not based on our own personal predilections and wants.  

Looking at the hadiths, I can understand why some fuqaha have said it would be permissible though makrooh.  That is, the fact of the woman being a fornicatress (doing the haram) not rendering the halal itself to be haram.  While married to her, in fact she would be being taken out of the haram for that time period.  So, fiqh-wise, they would say it is ja'iz.  This one here seems about the most explicit narration I know of on this one:


[ 26439 ] 3 Ü æÈÅÓäÇÏå Úä ÇáÍÓä Èä ãÍÈæÈ ¡ Úä ÅÓÍÇÞ Èä ÌÑíÑ ÞÇá : ÞáÊ áÇÈí ÚÈÏÇááå ( Úáíå ÇáÓáÇã ) : Åä ÚäÏäÇ ÈÇáßæÝÉ ÇãÑÃÉ ãÚÑæÝÉ ÈÇáÝÌæÑ ¡ ÃíÍá Ãä ÃÊÒæÌåÇ ãÊÚÉ ¿ ÞÇá : ÝÞÇá : ÑÝÚÊ ÑÇíÉ ¿ ÞáÊ : áÇ ¡ áæ ÑÝÚÊ ÑÇíÉ ÃÎÐåÇ ÇáÓáØÇä ¡ ÞÇá : äÚã ÊÒæÌåÇ ãÊÚÉ ¡ ÞÇá : Ëã ÃÕÛì Åáì ÈÚÖ ãæÇáíå ÝÃÓÑ Åáíå ÔíÆÇ ¡ ÝáÞíÊ ãæáÇå ÝÞáÊ áå : ãÇ ÞÇá áß ¿ ÝÞÇá : ÇäãÇ ÞÇá áí : æáæ ÑÝÚÊ ÑÇíÉ ãÇ ßÇä Úáíå Ýí ÝÊÒæíÌåÇ ÔÆ ÅäãÇ íÎÑÌåÇ ãä ÍÑÇã Åáì ÍáÇá .



3 – And by his isnad from al-Hasan b. Mahbub from Ishaq b. Jarir.  He said: I said to Abu `Abdillah Úáíå ÇáÓáÇã: Verily in Kufa there is a woman with us who is known for promiscuity.  Is it allowed to marry her in mut`a?  He said: So he said: Did she raise a standard?  I said: No, had she raised a standard the Sultan would have arrested her.  He said: Yes, marry her in mut`a.  He said: Then he listened to one of his slaves  (or, supporters, or, clients) and confided something to him.  So I met his slave and said to him: What did he say to you?  So he said: He only said to me: Even if she had raised a standard there would not be anything against the marriage. It only takes her out from a haram to a halal.

I'm not positive what raising a standard (i.e. a flag) would mean, but the context would seem to indicate to me it means she was a prostitute (e.g. the Sultan would arrest her).


Another one:


[ 26440 ] 4 Ü Úáí Èä ÚíÓí Ýí ( ßÔÝ ÇáÛãÉ ) äÞáÇ ãä ßÊÇÈ ( ÇáÏáÇÆá ) áÚÈÏÇááå Èä ÌÚÝÑ ÇáÍãíÑí ¡ Úä ÇáÍÓä Èä ÙÑíÝ ÞÇá : ßÊÈÊ Åáì ÃÈí ãÍãÏ ( Úáíå ÇáÓáÇã ) : ÞÏ ÊÑßÊ ÇáÊãÊÚ ËáÇËíä ÓäÉ ¡ Ëã äÔØÊ áÐáß ¡ æßÇä Ýí ÇáÍí ÇãÑÃÉ æÕÝÊ áí ÈÇáÌãÇá ¡ ÝãÇá ÞáÈí ÇáíåÇ ¡ æßÇäÊ ÚÇåÑÇ áÇ ÊãäÚ íÏ áÇãÓ ÝßÑåÊåÇ ¡ Ëã ÞáÊ : ÞÏ ÞÇá ÇáÇÆãÉ ( Úáíåã ÇáÓáÇã ) : ÊãÊÚ ÈÇáÝÇÌÑÉ ÝÅäß ÊÎÑÌåÇ ãä ÍÑÇã Åáì ÍáÇá ¡ ÝßÊÈÊ Åáì ÃÈí ãÍãÏ ( Úáíå ÇáÓáÇã ) ÃÔÇæÑå Ýí ÇáãÊÚÉ æÞáÊ : ÃíÌæÒ ÈÚÏ åÐå ÇáÓäíä Ãä ÃÊãÊÚ ¿ ÝßÊÈ : ÇäãÇ ÊÍíí ÓäÉ æÊãíÊ ÈÏÚÉ ÝáÇ ÈÃÓ ¡ æÅíÇß æÌÇÑÊß ÇáãÚÑæÝÉ ÈÇáÚåÑ ¡ æÅä ÍÏËÊß äÝÓß Ãä ÂÈÇÆí ÞÇáæÇ : ÊãÊÚ ÈÇáÝÇÌÑÉ ÝÇäß ÊÎÑÌåÇ ãä ÍÑÇã Åáì ÍáÇá ¡ ÝÇä åÐå ÇãÑÃÉ ãÚÑæÝÉ ÈÇáåÊß æåí ÌÇÑÉ æÃÎÇÝ Úáíß ÇÓÊÝÇÖÉ ÇáÎÈÑ ãäåÇ . ÝÊÑßÊåÇ æáã ÃÊãÊÚ ÈåÇ ¡ æÊãÊøÚ ÈåÇ ÔÇÐÇä Èä ÓÚÏ ÑÌá ãä ÅÎæÇääÇ æÌíÑÇääÇ ÝÇÔÊåÑ ÈåÇ ÍÊì ÚáÇ ÃãÑå ¡ æÕÇÑ Åáì ÇáÓáØÇä æÛÑã ÈÓÈÈåÇ ãÇáÇ äÝíÓÇ æÃÚÇÐäí Çááå ãä Ðáß ÈÈÑßÉ ÓíÏí


4 - `Ali b. `Isa in Kashf al-Ghumma transmitting from the book ad-Dala’il of `Abdullah b. Ja`far al-Himyari (narrating) from al-Hasan b. Zharif.  He said: I wrote to Abu Muhammad Úáíå ÇáÓáÇã: I had abandoned mut`a for thirty years, then I felt like doing that.  And there was a woman in the neighborhood who was described to me as beautiful, so my heart inclined to her.  But, she was an adulteress not preventing a toucher’s hand, so I disliked her.  Then I said: The Imams Úáíåã ÇáÓáÇã have said: Marry the dissolute woman for verily you take her out from a haram to a halal.  So I wrote to Abu Muhammad Úáíå ÇáÓáÇã taking his counsel in regards to the mut`a, and I said: Is it permissible after this age that I do mut`a?  So he said: You are only revivifying a sunna and making an innovation die, so there is no harm.  And beware you of your neighbor who is known for adultery.  And if your self told you that my fathers said: Do mut`a with the dissolute woman for verily you take her out from a haram to a halal, then this woman is known for disclosing and she is a neighbor, and I fear for you the spreading of the report from her.  So I left her and did not do mut`a with her.  And Shadhan b. Sa`d, a man from our brethren and neighbors, did mut`a with her, and he became famous with it (or, her) until his affair went up and reached the Sultan.  And because of it, he was fined with a costly property.  And Allah preserved me from that by the blessing of my master.


So again, it is showing permissibility even though the Imam advised against it in this case in order to protect his follower from the authorities.

However... it's also very clear from the ahadith that really one should be looking for a woman is both a mu'mina _and_ chaste.  So ethically speaking, while mut`a with the zaniyya would be considered halal and thus the person engaging in it is not committing zina themselves, still, one should look to marrying (ethically, ideally) pure women.  Such as:


[ 26433 ] 1 Ü ãÍãÏ Èä íÚÞæÈ ¡ Úä ãÍãÏ Èä íÍíì ¡ Úä ÃÍãÏ Èä ãÍãÏ ¡ Úä ãÍãÏ Èä ÅÓãÇÚíá ÞÇá : ÓÃá ÑÌá ÃÈÇ ÇáÍÓä ÇáÑÖÇ ( Úáíå ÇáÓáÇã ) æÃäÇ ÃÓãÚ Úä ÑÌá íÊÒæÌ ÇáãÑÃÉ ãÊÚÉ æíÔÊÑØ ÚáíåÇ Ãä áÇ íØáÈ æáÏåÇ Ü Åáì Ãä ÞÇá : Ü ÝÞÇá : áÇ íäÈÛí áß Ãä ÊÊÒæÌ ÅáÇ ÈãÄãäÉ Ãæ ãÓáãÉ ¡ ÝÅä Çááå ÚÒ æÌá íÞæá : ( ÇáÒÇäí áÇ íäßÍ ÅáÇ ÒÇäíÉ Ãæ ãÔÑßÉ æÇáÒÇäíÉ áÇ íäßÍåÇ ÅáÇ ÒÇä Ãæ ãÔÑß æÍÑã Ðáß Úáì ÇáãÄãäíä ) .

æÑæÇå ÇáÔíÎ ÈÅÓäÇÏå Úä ÃÍãÏ Èä ãÍãÏ ¡ ãËáå ¡ ÅáÇ Ãäå ÞÇá : áÇ ÊÊÒæÌ ÅáÇ ÈãÃãæäÉ .

æÑæÇå ÇáÕÏæÞ ÈÅÓäÇÏå Úä ãÍãÏ Èä ÅÓãÇÚíá ¡ ãËáå .



1 – Muhammad b. Ya`qub from Muhammad b. Yahya from Muhammad b. Isma`il.  He said: A man asked Abu ‘l-Hasan ar-Rida Úáíå ÇáÓáÇã and I was listening, about a man who marries the woman in mut`a and puts a condition upon her that he will not seek her child – until he said: So he said: It is not appropriate for you to marry (anyone) but a mu’mina or a muslima, so verily Allah ÚÒ æÌá  says “The fornicator does not marry but a fornicatress or an idolatress and the fornicatress is not married but to a fornicator or an idolator.  And that is forbidden upon the believers” (24:3)

And the Shaykh narrated it by his isnad from Ahmad b. Muhammad likewise except that he said: you do not marry (anyone) but a trustworthy woman.

And as-Saduq narrated by his isnad from Muhammad b. Isma`il likewise.

and


[ 26436 ] 4 Ü æÚä Úáí Èä ÅÈÑÇåíã ¡ Úä ãÍãÏ Èä ÚíÓì ¡ Úä íæäÓ ¡ Úä ãÍãÏ Èä ÇáÝÖíá ÞÇá : ÓÃáÊ ÃÈÇ ÇáÍÓä ( Úáíå ÇáÓáÇã ) Úä ÇáãÑÃÉ ÇáÍÓäÇÁ ÇáÝÇÌÑÉ ¡ åá ÊÍÈ ááÑÌá Ãä íÊãÊÚ ãäåÇ íæãÇ Ãæ ÃßËÑ ¿ ÝÞÇá : ÅÐÇ ßÇäÊ ãÔåæÑÉ ÈÇáÒäÇ ÝáÇ íÊãÊÚ ãäåÇ æáÇ íäßÍåÇ .


4 – And from `Ali b. Ibrahim from Muhammad b. `Isa from Yunus from Muhammad b. al-Fudayl.  He said: I asked Abu ‘l-Hasan Úáíå ÇáÓáÇã about the beautiful dissolute woman, is it beloved [is it permissible – in al-Kafi] for the man to do mut`a with her for a day or more?  So he said: If she is famous with fornication, then do not do mut`a with her and do not marry her.


When you have an apparent contradiction like that on the surface at least in the akhbar (some saying you can do something, some saying don't do it), a common way of reconciling it is to say the act is permissible but makrooh, so perhaps that is why some fuqaha have ruled this way on this issue.

Precaution however, which some other fuqaha have ruled by, would tell you to stay away from it, and of course precaution is the safest path to take here.  Committing zina is extremely serious, and one does not want even if by accident to be engaging in it.  



I'm pretty positive they are translating makrooh here as "reprehensible".  If they thought it was haram, they'd clearly say it is haram, not permissible, or what have you.  It's just the way jurists write these responses.  So maybe one would say he would appear to be trying to discourage it stating it's being makrooh, still, what is being said implicitly is that it is still ja'iz none the less.

Now... all that being said, there's the whole other issue in regards to the permissibility of marrying non-Muslim women period.  And for that there has been a lot of varying views, ranging from totally haram (even in mut`a) to permissible (even permanently).  And the discussion on that brings in a whole host of other proofs and arguments from the Quran and ahadith.



I don't live in the UK, and I doubt it's all that easy to contract, but I think it'd be an exaggeration to say it's impossible (or almost impossible).  And even if mut`a were "impossible", there is still permanent marriage of course.



I realize this isn't answering your question, but how in the world is going with a prostitute the "only" way to stop doing the haram?  Self control while it might not be pleasant is not impossible.  And if someone is that desperate they go with a prostitute to save themselves from the haram, what will they do once their desires come back (as they will) after they've had their initial satisfaction?  Keep going back to hookers?  Is that the type of life one wants to live?

macisaac, on 30 January 2011 - 12:08 PM, said:

While our selves might tell us one thing in regards to this (whether we think it is acceptable or not), determining the laws of the Shari`a doesn't work that way, i.e. they are not based on our own personal predilections and wants.  

Looking at the hadiths, I can understand why some fuqaha have said it would be permissible though makrooh.  That is, the fact of the woman being a fornicatress (doing the haram) not rendering the halal itself to be haram.  While married to her, in fact she would be being taken out of the haram for that time period.  So, fiqh-wise, they would say it is ja'iz.  This one here seems about the most explicit narration I know of on this one:


[ 26439 ] 3 Ü æÈÅÓäÇÏå Úä ÇáÍÓä Èä ãÍÈæÈ ¡ Úä ÅÓÍÇÞ Èä ÌÑíÑ ÞÇá : ÞáÊ áÇÈí ÚÈÏÇááå ( Úáíå ÇáÓáÇã ) : Åä ÚäÏäÇ ÈÇáßæÝÉ ÇãÑÃÉ ãÚÑæÝÉ ÈÇáÝÌæÑ ¡ ÃíÍá Ãä ÃÊÒæÌåÇ ãÊÚÉ ¿ ÞÇá : ÝÞÇá : ÑÝÚÊ ÑÇíÉ ¿ ÞáÊ : áÇ ¡ áæ ÑÝÚÊ ÑÇíÉ ÃÎÐåÇ ÇáÓáØÇä ¡ ÞÇá : äÚã ÊÒæÌåÇ ãÊÚÉ ¡ ÞÇá : Ëã ÃÕÛì Åáì ÈÚÖ ãæÇáíå ÝÃÓÑ Åáíå ÔíÆÇ ¡ ÝáÞíÊ ãæáÇå ÝÞáÊ áå : ãÇ ÞÇá áß ¿ ÝÞÇá : ÇäãÇ ÞÇá áí : æáæ ÑÝÚÊ ÑÇíÉ ãÇ ßÇä Úáíå Ýí ÝÊÒæíÌåÇ ÔÆ ÅäãÇ íÎÑÌåÇ ãä ÍÑÇã Åáì ÍáÇá .



3 – And by his isnad from al-Hasan b. Mahbub from Ishaq b. Jarir.  He said: I said to Abu `Abdillah Úáíå ÇáÓáÇã: Verily in Kufa there is a woman with us who is known for promiscuity.  Is it allowed to marry her in mut`a?  He said: So he said: Did she raise a standard?  I said: No, had she raised a standard the Sultan would have arrested her.  He said: Yes, marry her in mut`a.  He said: Then he listened to one of his slaves  (or, supporters, or, clients) and confided something to him.  So I met his slave and said to him: What did he say to you?  So he said: He only said to me: Even if she had raised a standard there would not be anything against the marriage. It only takes her out from a haram to a halal.

I'm not positive what raising a standard (i.e. a flag) would mean, but the context would seem to indicate to me it means she was a prostitute (e.g. the Sultan would arrest her).


Another one:


[ 26440 ] 4 Ü Úáí Èä ÚíÓí Ýí ( ßÔÝ ÇáÛãÉ ) äÞáÇ ãä ßÊÇÈ ( ÇáÏáÇÆá ) áÚÈÏÇááå Èä ÌÚÝÑ ÇáÍãíÑí ¡ Úä ÇáÍÓä Èä ÙÑíÝ ÞÇá : ßÊÈÊ Åáì ÃÈí ãÍãÏ ( Úáíå ÇáÓáÇã ) : ÞÏ ÊÑßÊ ÇáÊãÊÚ ËáÇËíä ÓäÉ ¡ Ëã äÔØÊ áÐáß ¡ æßÇä Ýí ÇáÍí ÇãÑÃÉ æÕÝÊ áí ÈÇáÌãÇá ¡ ÝãÇá ÞáÈí ÇáíåÇ ¡ æßÇäÊ ÚÇåÑÇ áÇ ÊãäÚ íÏ áÇãÓ ÝßÑåÊåÇ ¡ Ëã ÞáÊ : ÞÏ ÞÇá ÇáÇÆãÉ ( Úáíåã ÇáÓáÇã ) : ÊãÊÚ ÈÇáÝÇÌÑÉ ÝÅäß ÊÎÑÌåÇ ãä ÍÑÇã Åáì ÍáÇá ¡ ÝßÊÈÊ Åáì ÃÈí ãÍãÏ ( Úáíå ÇáÓáÇã ) ÃÔÇæÑå Ýí ÇáãÊÚÉ æÞáÊ : ÃíÌæÒ ÈÚÏ åÐå ÇáÓäíä Ãä ÃÊãÊÚ ¿ ÝßÊÈ : ÇäãÇ ÊÍíí ÓäÉ æÊãíÊ ÈÏÚÉ ÝáÇ ÈÃÓ ¡ æÅíÇß æÌÇÑÊß ÇáãÚÑæÝÉ ÈÇáÚåÑ ¡ æÅä ÍÏËÊß äÝÓß Ãä ÂÈÇÆí ÞÇáæÇ : ÊãÊÚ ÈÇáÝÇÌÑÉ ÝÇäß ÊÎÑÌåÇ ãä ÍÑÇã Åáì ÍáÇá ¡ ÝÇä åÐå ÇãÑÃÉ ãÚÑæÝÉ ÈÇáåÊß æåí ÌÇÑÉ æÃÎÇÝ Úáíß ÇÓÊÝÇÖÉ ÇáÎÈÑ ãäåÇ . ÝÊÑßÊåÇ æáã ÃÊãÊÚ ÈåÇ ¡ æÊãÊøÚ ÈåÇ ÔÇÐÇä Èä ÓÚÏ ÑÌá ãä ÅÎæÇääÇ æÌíÑÇääÇ ÝÇÔÊåÑ ÈåÇ ÍÊì ÚáÇ ÃãÑå ¡ æÕÇÑ Åáì ÇáÓáØÇä æÛÑã ÈÓÈÈåÇ ãÇáÇ äÝíÓÇ æÃÚÇÐäí Çááå ãä Ðáß ÈÈÑßÉ ÓíÏí


4 - `Ali b. `Isa in Kashf al-Ghumma transmitting from the book ad-Dala’il of `Abdullah b. Ja`far al-Himyari (narrating) from al-Hasan b. Zharif.  He said: I wrote to Abu Muhammad Úáíå ÇáÓáÇã: I had abandoned mut`a for thirty years, then I felt like doing that.  And there was a woman in the neighborhood who was described to me as beautiful, so my heart inclined to her.  But, she was an adulteress not preventing a toucher’s hand, so I disliked her.  Then I said: The Imams Úáíåã ÇáÓáÇã have said: Marry the dissolute woman for verily you take her out from a haram to a halal.  So I wrote to Abu Muhammad Úáíå ÇáÓáÇã taking his counsel in regards to the mut`a, and I said: Is it permissible after this age that I do mut`a?  So he said: You are only revivifying a sunna and making an innovation die, so there is no harm.  And beware you of your neighbor who is known for adultery.  And if your self told you that my fathers said: Do mut`a with the dissolute woman for verily you take her out from a haram to a halal, then this woman is known for disclosing and she is a neighbor, and I fear for you the spreading of the report from her.  So I left her and did not do mut`a with her.  And Shadhan b. Sa`d, a man from our brethren and neighbors, did mut`a with her, and he became famous with it (or, her) until his affair went up and reached the Sultan.  And because of it, he was fined with a costly property.  And Allah preserved me from that by the blessing of my master.


So again, it is showing permissibility even though the Imam advised against it in this case in order to protect his follower from the authorities.

However... it's also very clear from the ahadith that really one should be looking for a woman is both a mu'mina _and_ chaste.  So ethically speaking, while mut`a with the zaniyya would be considered halal and thus the person engaging in it is not committing zina themselves, still, one should look to marrying (ethically, ideally) pure women.  Such as:


[ 26433 ] 1 Ü ãÍãÏ Èä íÚÞæÈ ¡ Úä ãÍãÏ Èä íÍíì ¡ Úä ÃÍãÏ Èä ãÍãÏ ¡ Úä ãÍãÏ Èä ÅÓãÇÚíá ÞÇá : ÓÃá ÑÌá ÃÈÇ ÇáÍÓä ÇáÑÖÇ ( Úáíå ÇáÓáÇã ) æÃäÇ ÃÓãÚ Úä ÑÌá íÊÒæÌ ÇáãÑÃÉ ãÊÚÉ æíÔÊÑØ ÚáíåÇ Ãä áÇ íØáÈ æáÏåÇ Ü Åáì Ãä ÞÇá : Ü ÝÞÇá : áÇ íäÈÛí áß Ãä ÊÊÒæÌ ÅáÇ ÈãÄãäÉ Ãæ ãÓáãÉ ¡ ÝÅä Çááå ÚÒ æÌá íÞæá : ( ÇáÒÇäí áÇ íäßÍ ÅáÇ ÒÇäíÉ Ãæ ãÔÑßÉ æÇáÒÇäíÉ áÇ íäßÍåÇ ÅáÇ ÒÇä Ãæ ãÔÑß æÍÑã Ðáß Úáì ÇáãÄãäíä ) .

æÑæÇå ÇáÔíÎ ÈÅÓäÇÏå Úä ÃÍãÏ Èä ãÍãÏ ¡ ãËáå ¡ ÅáÇ Ãäå ÞÇá : áÇ ÊÊÒæÌ ÅáÇ ÈãÃãæäÉ .

æÑæÇå ÇáÕÏæÞ ÈÅÓäÇÏå Úä ãÍãÏ Èä ÅÓãÇÚíá ¡ ãËáå .



1 – Muhammad b. Ya`qub from Muhammad b. Yahya from Muhammad b. Isma`il.  He said: A man asked Abu ‘l-Hasan ar-Rida Úáíå ÇáÓáÇã and I was listening, about a man who marries the woman in mut`a and puts a condition upon her that he will not seek her child – until he said: So he said: It is not appropriate for you to marry (anyone) but a mu’mina or a muslima, so verily Allah ÚÒ æÌá  says “The fornicator does not marry but a fornicatress or an idolatress and the fornicatress is not married but to a fornicator or an idolator.  And that is forbidden upon the believers” (24:3)

And the Shaykh narrated it by his isnad from Ahmad b. Muhammad likewise except that he said: you do not marry (anyone) but a trustworthy woman.

And as-Saduq narrated by his isnad from Muhammad b. Isma`il likewise.

and


[ 26436 ] 4 Ü æÚä Úáí Èä ÅÈÑÇåíã ¡ Úä ãÍãÏ Èä ÚíÓì ¡ Úä íæäÓ ¡ Úä ãÍãÏ Èä ÇáÝÖíá ÞÇá : ÓÃáÊ ÃÈÇ ÇáÍÓä ( Úáíå ÇáÓáÇã ) Úä ÇáãÑÃÉ ÇáÍÓäÇÁ ÇáÝÇÌÑÉ ¡ åá ÊÍÈ ááÑÌá Ãä íÊãÊÚ ãäåÇ íæãÇ Ãæ ÃßËÑ ¿ ÝÞÇá : ÅÐÇ ßÇäÊ ãÔåæÑÉ ÈÇáÒäÇ ÝáÇ íÊãÊÚ ãäåÇ æáÇ íäßÍåÇ .


4 – And from `Ali b. Ibrahim from Muhammad b. `Isa from Yunus from Muhammad b. al-Fudayl.  He said: I asked Abu ‘l-Hasan Úáíå ÇáÓáÇã about the beautiful dissolute woman, is it beloved [is it permissible – in al-Kafi] for the man to do mut`a with her for a day or more?  So he said: If she is famous with fornication, then do not do mut`a with her and do not marry her.


When you have an apparent contradiction like that on the surface at least in the akhbar (some saying you can do something, some saying don't do it), a common way of reconciling it is to say the act is permissible but makrooh, so perhaps that is why some fuqaha have ruled this way on this issue.

Precaution however, which some other fuqaha have ruled by, would tell you to stay away from it, and of course precaution is the safest path to take here.  Committing zina is extremely serious, and one does not want even if by accident to be engaging in it.  



I'm pretty positive they are translating makrooh here as "reprehensible".  If they thought it was haram, they'd clearly say it is haram, not permissible, or what have you.  It's just the way jurists write these responses.  So maybe one would say he would appear to be trying to discourage it stating it's being makrooh, still, what is being said implicitly is that it is still ja'iz none the less.

Now... all that being said, there's the whole other issue in regards to the permissibility of marrying non-Muslim women period.  And for that there has been a lot of varying views, ranging from totally haram (even in mut`a) to permissible (even permanently).  And the discussion on that brings in a whole host of other proofs and arguments from the Quran and ahadith.



I don't live in the UK, and I doubt it's all that easy to contract, but I think it'd be an exaggeration to say it's impossible (or almost impossible).  And even if mut`a were "impossible", there is still permanent marriage of course.



I realize this isn't answering your question, but how in the world is going with a prostitute the "only" way to stop doing the haram?  Self control while it might not be pleasant is not impossible.  And if someone is that desperate they go with a prostitute to save themselves from the haram, what will they do once their desires come back (as they will) after they've had their initial satisfaction?  Keep going back to hookers?  Is that the type of life one wants to live?

macisaac, on 30 January 2011 - 11:30 AM, said:

Actually, that would be saying it's makrooh (i.e. not haram).

amina1989, on 01 February 2011 - 11:16 AM, said:

imagine a picture:married shia man with kids , has sex every day with new prostitute through excort agency.of course, he considers this totally islamic because these excorts are his wives in mutah marriage,he does not need to tell anything to his wife.Open up your eyes ,its not Islam but it is worst form of zinah because people who engage in it, do so in the name of Allah.Don't transgress Allah's laws,Allah knows everything.True Isla, can be like this when  a muslim man can have sex with endless number of prostitutes.

[hasanhh]

apples69, on 02 January 2011 - 07:15 PM, said:

If a man is unable to find a muslim female for mutah, can the man do mutah with prostitute/escort (non muslim), is this halal or would it be classed as fornification and be wrong?

  Assalamallikum

Besides those points made above, I'll add another one:  Prostitute means adultry or fornicator depending on whether the customer is or is not married, and homosexual if the customer is of the same sex.

I always maintain that a prostitute is an adultress and should be executed as such when you get a good conviction from a proper trial.

[siraatoaliyinhaqqun]

amina1989, on 01 February 2011 - 11:23 AM, said:

imagine a picture:married shia man with kids , has sex every day with new prostitute through excort agency.of course, he considers this totally islamic because these excorts are his wives in mutah marriage,he does not need to tell anything to his wife.Open up your eyes ,its not Islam but it is worst form of zinah because people who engage in it, do so in the name of Allah.Don't transgress Allah's laws,Allah knows everything.True Isla, can be like this when  a muslim man can have sex with endless number of prostitutes.

Salam

I understand ur frustration but the problem is neither is Islam anyone's playground nor there is any weight for a fallible opinion.

The purpose of mutah/or permanent marriage with a prostitute is mentioned below.

Imams Úáíåã ÇáÓáÇã have said: Marry the dissolute woman for verily you take her out from a haram to a halal.

So what do u do is look in to the chapter of iddah. Even if someone does zinah with a women and later wishes to marry her then she has to observe iddah as stated by imam reza asws to mamoon l.a.

Marriage to prostitute who is famous for prostitution is when she should become famous for thauba as she was famous for fornication as per a hadees from imam Sadiq asws.

So, a momin should look in to iddah for mutah/nikah before and after mutah with a prostitute so as to achieve the purpose rather than making it makruh or haram through his opinion. Ulemas won't do this for us; we should do it ourselves.

Ya Ali Madad

[Ali-Mohammed]

As Salamu...

Why not a mariage akhi ? Why ?

[Livindesert]

This whole "temporary marriage" looks like an cultural(not religious) excuse to have out of wedlock sex. If you "marry" someone for an hour or a week just for sex it is not really a marriage. God knows the heart and will see through this false marriage facade.

Bhooka_Bhairiya, on 28 January 2011 - 07:02 PM, said:

Sunni/salafi/wahabi junk is meaningless for us. Mutah is for MEN, not henpeck effeminates.

Real men have self control and can save themselves for their wives.

Edited by Livindesert, 15 March 2011 - 04:08 PM.

[akf]

Livindesert, on 15 March 2011 - 04:08 PM, said:

This whole "temporary marriage" looks like an cultural(not religious) excuse to have out of wedlock sex. If you "marry" someone for an hour or a week just for sex it is not really a marriage. God knows the heart and will see through this false marriage facade.

And what exactly is the difference between intercourse intra or extramaritally? There is no difference between the act itself except that God has allowed one and forbidden the other. In the same way, temporary marriage has been made halal by God and it's not for us to decide what is or isn't a "true" marriage.

[Livindesert]

akf, on 15 March 2011 - 05:14 PM, said:

And what exactly is the difference between intercourse intra or extramaritally? There is no difference between the act itself except that God has allowed one and forbidden the other. In the same way, temporary marriage has been made halal by God and it's not for us to decide what is or isn't a "true" marriage.

Would you allow your mother, sister or daughter to get a divorce from their husbands and perform mutah with different men every day or every hour?

Edited by Livindesert, 15 March 2011 - 06:18 PM.

[B-nCaesar]

Livindesert, on 15 March 2011 - 06:17 PM, said:

Would you allow your mother, sister or daughter to get a divorce from their husbands and perform mutah with different men every day or every hour?

not sure if bahaii

[Livindesert]

B-nCaesar, on 15 March 2011 - 06:19 PM, said:

not sure if bahaii

Could you use different words I do not understand your sentence.

[Fatima Hussain]

Livindesert, on 15 March 2011 - 06:17 PM, said:

Would you allow your mother, sister or daughter to get a divorce from their husbands and perform mutah with different men every day or every hour?

There's a six month waiting period for the woman after divorce or end of a marriage to make she is not with child. She cannot get married again until this waiting period is over.

Mutah marriage can used for beneficial things. Example: getting to know your fiancée without always having a mahram around or spending time with a person to decide if you want to have a permanently marry them. Since there is no dating in Islam and no free mixing between sexes...AND you must have enough money to pay for the expenses of the wife, nikah mutah is necessary, and in today's world. Often times people have natural urges, but cannot get married permanently due to certain circumstances. They must have a halal outlet so they don't fall into the haram.

[gogiison2]

from the book Temporary Marriage in Islamic Law:

It is recommended that a Muslim man conclude a temporary marriage only with a chaste
Muslim woman. Here by 'chaste' (afifa) the classical authors have in mind someone who has
never committed fornication and who follows the shari'a in her activities. More specifically,
the adjective denotes a woman who has observed the shar'i laws concerning marriage and in
general is honest and upright. The two attributes 'Muslim' and 'chaste' are derived from
sayings by two of the Imams: the Imam al-Rida was asked: 'Is it possible for a man to
conclude a temporary marriage with a Jew or a Christian?' He answered: 'I would prefer that
he engage in mut'a with a free Muslim woman.' [22] To a question about performing mut'a,
the Imam Ja'far replied: 'It is permissible. So marry none but a chaste woman, for God says, "
And those who guard their private parts" (23:5). Hence you should not put your private parts
where you do not feel safe with your dirhams.' [23]

also:


It is reprehensible for a man to conclude a marriage of mut'a with a fornicatress, by reason of
the Qur'anic verse: 'The fornicator shall marry not but a fornicatress or an idolatress, and the
fornicatress-none shall marry her but a fornicator or an idolator; that is forbidden to the
believers' (24:3). If a man should contract a temporary marriage with a fornicatress, it is his
duty to command her not to perform adultery. But this is not a necessary condition of the
marriage, by reason of the 'principle of correctness' as applied to the Muslim's act. [28]

Edited by gogiison2, 15 March 2011 - 10:08 PM.

[Livindesert]

ohhcuppycakee, on 15 March 2011 - 09:08 PM, said:

There's a six month waiting period for the woman after divorce or end of a marriage to make she is not with child. She cannot get married again until this waiting period is over.

Mutah marriage can used for beneficial things. Example: getting to know your fiancée without always having a mahram around or spending time with a person to decide if you want to have a permanently marry them. Since there is no dating in Islam and no free mixing between sexes...AND you must have enough money to pay for the expenses of the wife, nikah mutah is necessary, and in today's world. Often times people have natural urges, but cannot get married permanently due to certain circumstances. They must have a halal outlet so they don't fall into the haram.

Taking a possible wife for a test drive seems Haram to me. This is one idea that I do not see as coming from God.

[Fatima Hussain]

Livindesert, on 15 March 2011 - 10:51 PM, said:

Taking a possible wife for a test drive seems Haram to me. This is one idea that I do not see as coming from God.

Oh my God, test drive? I didn't mean they would have sex or anything like that!! I mean getting to know each other!

[B-nCaesar]

Livindesert, on 15 March 2011 - 10:51 PM, said:

Taking a possible wife for a test drive seems Haram to me. This is one idea that I do not see as coming from God.

you don't sound bahaai.

bahai people don't care about such petty matters.