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The Alawites


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#76 Professor Higgins

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Posted 17 March 2012 - 03:24 PM

View Postsouth-lebanon, on 21 January 2012 - 06:42 AM, said:

.

The majority the muslim population of Sham was once upon a time shia. most were forced to convert to sunnis, while others deviated, and the 12ers moved to jabal3amal where they lived under persucution and neglect by the ruling authorities because of the pious views they held that the ruling sunnis always saw as a threat.
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That, my sir, is a barefaced lie.  Palestine, which was considered part of Sham, was always majority Sunni.  The majority Muslim population of al-Sham were Christians before converting to Islam.  Shi'ism was confined to Jabal Amel and the Alawite Mountains, and maybe a few Syrian cities ( including possibly Halab and Damascus).
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#77 south-lebanon

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Posted 17 March 2012 - 04:11 PM

unfortunatley for yourself, you are a typical sunni, you are neglegent when it comes to history, your probably one of those guys that thinks shiasm was spread from Iran to South-Lebanon, when infact it was the other way around.

Lebanon is not just part of  the cradle of civilisation, it is also part of the cradle of shiasm, there was a shia community in Lebanon even before karbala, the first muslim inhabitants of Lebanon were converted to shia by Imam Ali's close friend, abu dharr, that was prior to othman aka "mr dollars" exiling him to Lebanon thinking his cousin muawiyah can reign him in.


http://en.wikipedia....slam_in_Lebanon
Recent genetic testing has shown that nearly 40% of Lebanese Shi'a belong to the Y-DNA haplogroup J2. The J2 haplogroup is found at its highest frequency in the Fertile Crescent and Mediterranean regions, and has been considered the Y-haplogroup most characteristic of the Phoenicians.[1] Lebanese Shi'a are said to have been among the original inhabitants of the Kesrewan region in the Mount Lebanon District, and it is also known that many Shi'a Lebanese come from Christian and Pagan origins. They were converted at the hand of Abu Dharr al-Ghifari. Abu Dharr was the prophet's companion; he was known for his strict piety and his opposition to the caliph Uthman ibn Affan for his mishandling of power and wealth as a caliph. He was exiled by Uthman to Sham (modern day Syria and Lebanon), so that he would be under the eyes of Muawiya. That is when he converted the people of Lebanon to the Shi'a Muslim faith in the early 7th century AD. Later a Shi'a emirate was established in Keserwan. The growth of Shi'a Islam in Lebanon stopped around the late thirteenth century, and subsequently Shi'i communities decreased in size. This development may be traced to 1291, when the Sunni Mamluks sent numerous military expeditions to subdue the Shi'is of Kesrawan, a mountain region overlooking the coastal area north of Beirut. The first two Mamluk expeditions, sanctioned by the blood-thirsty jurist Ibn Taymiyyah the Takfiri, were defeated by the Shi'a in Keserwan. The third expedition, on the other hand, was overwhelmingly large and was able to defeat the Shi'a in Keserwan; many were brutally slaughtered, some fled through the mountains to northern Beqaa while others fled moving through the Beqaa plain, to a new safe haven in Jezzine. Keserwan began to lose its Shi'i character under the Assaf Sunni Turkomans whom the Mamluks appointed as overlords of the area in 1306. The process intensified around 1545 when the Maronites started migrating to Keserwan and Jbeil, encouraged by the Assafs, who sought to use them as a counterweight to the Shi'i Himada sheikhs who reemerged in Kesrewan. When in 1605 the Druze emir Fakhr al-Din Ma'n II took over Kesrewan, he entrusted its management to the Khazin Maronite family. The Khazins gradually colonized Kesrewan, purchasing Shi'i lands and founding churches and monasteries. They emerged as the predominant authority in the region at the expense of the Shi'i Hamedeh clan. By the end of the eighteenth century, the Khazins owned Kesrewan and only a few Shi'i villages survived. During the time of the Ottoman Empire the Shi'as suffered religious persecution and were often forced to flee their homes in search of refuge in the South. One example is the Lebanese city of Tripoli, which had formerly had a Shi'a Muslim majority. Many Lebanese Shi'a are rumored to have concealed their religious sect and acted as Sunni Muslims in fear of persecution. It is also rumored[by whom?] that some of the Shi'a permanently adopted the Sunni Muslim sect. The Ottomans and Druze were well allied and a Druze family seized power of Tripoli. Maronites who were persecuted by the Ottoman's and the Druze, sought refuge amongst the newly relocated Shi'a population in the South. Jezzine, once famously known



as a Shi'a capital in Lebanon, is now known as a major Christian city in the South. The Shi'is withdrew further south and eventually had to abandon even Jezzine, which until the mid-eighteenth century had functioned as a center of Shi'i learning in Lebanon.[2]
Although the Jabal 'Amil enjoyed a degree of autonomy in the eighteenth century, this ended with the Ottoman appointment of Ahmad al-Jazzar as governor of Sidon province (1775–1804). Jazzar crushed the military power of the Shi'i clan leaders and burned the libraries of the religious scholars using the Druze tribes established in the Shouf, mainly the strong Nakad family, allied to the Maan. He established a centralized administration in the Shi'i areas and brought their revenues and cash crops under his domain. By the late eighteenth century, the Shi'is of the Jabal 'Amil lost their independent spirit and adopted an attitude of political defeat. Al-Jezzar was nicknamed "the butcher" and a big population of the Shi'a were killed under his rule in Lebanon.
During most of the Ottoman period, the Shi'a largely maintained themselves as 'a state apart', although they found common ground with their fellow Lebanese, the Maronites; this may have been due to the persecutions both sects faced. They maintained contact with the Safavid dynasty, which they help establish the Shi'a Islam as the state religion of Persia. These contacts further angered the Ottoman Sultan, who had already viewed them as religious heretics. The Sultan was frequently at war with the Persians, as well as being, in the role of Caliph, the leader of the majority Sunni community. Shi'a Lebanon, when not subject to political repression, was generally neglected, sinking further and further into the economic background.


The Shi'i ulama of South Lebanon became famous not because of their activities in Ottoman Lebanon, but because of the role they played in spreading Shi'ism in Iran following the establishment of the Safavid state in 1501.
Towards the end of the eighteenth century the Comte de Volmy was to describe the Shi'a as a distinct society.[citation needed] The Sunni had attempted to resist the French mandate; and when they were defeated, refused to participate in the administration of what they considered to be an artificial political entity. Sunni opposition had aimed at the creation of a 'greater Syria', where the Shi'a would have been a permanent minority. In the new state of Lebanon they acquired both an independence and a far greater political significance in relation to the size of their community. This was further emphasized by French colonial policy, which sought to reach out to the Shi'a, with the intention of preventing a possible alliance with the Sunni

Edited by south-lebanon, 17 March 2012 - 04:15 PM.


#78 Professor Higgins

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Posted 19 March 2012 - 03:21 AM

I am not talking about Lebanon, I am talking about Palestine, can you show me any trace of Shia in Palestine in the last 1400 years ?
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#79 Professor Higgins

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Posted 19 March 2012 - 03:22 AM

Btw why do some Lebanese Shia claim they are originally from Yemen ?
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#80 ImAli

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Posted 19 March 2012 - 11:43 AM

View PostProfessor Higgins, on 19 March 2012 - 03:22 AM, said:

Btw why do some Lebanese Shia claim they are originally from Yemen ?

I guess it is possible some of them migrated...people migrate all of the time.

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#81 ShiaBen

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Posted 19 March 2012 - 12:07 PM

View PostProfessor Higgins, on 19 March 2012 - 03:22 AM, said:

Btw why do some Lebanese Shia claim they are originally from Yemen ?

Some of the oldest Shiite groups are from Yemen.

Perhaps that's the reason? Not sure.

#82 Propaganda_of_the_Deed

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Posted 19 March 2012 - 12:28 PM

View PostProfessor Higgins, on 19 March 2012 - 03:22 AM, said:

Btw why do some Lebanese Shia claim they are originally from Yemen ?

People as far as the Maghreb claim descent from Yemeni settlers - don't forget the oldest Arab civilization is from Yemen, let alone some of the oldest Shi'ite communities.

And there was a caravan trade route between Sham through to Yemen that pre-dated the time of the Prophet s.a.w aswell, going to Sham in the Summer and to Yemen in the Winter - there was bound to be some form of intermarriage as communities forged links and established relations I'm sure.

Edited by Propaganda_of_the_Deed, 19 March 2012 - 12:30 PM.

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#83 south-lebanon

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Posted 19 March 2012 - 02:04 PM

View PostProfessor Higgins, on 19 March 2012 - 03:22 AM, said:

Btw why do some Lebanese Shia claim they are originally from Yemen ?

It was  supposedly a pre-islamic migration

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marib_Dam

#84 Professor Higgins

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Posted 19 March 2012 - 02:11 PM

View Postsouth-lebanon, on 19 March 2012 - 02:04 PM, said:

It was  supposedly a pre-islamic migration

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marib_Dam


Strange. Yemenis are pretty dark but Lebanese are pretty fair.
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#85 Professor Higgins

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Posted 19 March 2012 - 02:13 PM

Quote

The current dam was financed by UAE founder Sheikh Zayed, whose tribe resettled from Marib to current UAE in about 17th century

Great !!!   Meet your cousins.
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#86 Professor Higgins

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Posted 19 March 2012 - 02:17 PM

However it is true that the Lebanese Shia do not have any Sunni antecedents, unlike the Iranians who were all converted ( many of them by force) in the 16th century by the bloodthirsty Safavids.  The conversion process in Iraq was not complete until 1920s in fact and it started in the 1800s.

In fact the Iranian Kings required scholars from Lebanon and Bahrain to teach the people about Shi'ism.
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#87 south-lebanon

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Posted 20 March 2012 - 06:47 AM

View PostProfessor Higgins, on 19 March 2012 - 02:11 PM, said:

Strange. Yemenis are pretty dark but Lebanese are pretty fair.

200BC is a very long time ago, this is the time that historians believe that the "Banu Amela" made the migration from Yemen to the areas that make up present day Lebanon. As stated above Lebanese shias are predominatly DNA J2 haplogroup which is the most common form found around the eastern mediteranean, So it shouldnt be entirly surprising if Lebanese shias have lost their Yemeni looks, but on the other hand you still do get some darker looking Lebanese shia's, which could of been from pre-islamic arab migration or even post-islamic arab migration.

View PostProfessor Higgins, on 19 March 2012 - 02:13 PM, said:

Great !!!   Meet your cousins.

Lebanese shia have a higher claim to fame than being realted to that poodle.

View PostProfessor Higgins, on 19 March 2012 - 02:17 PM, said:


The conversion process in Iraq was not complete until 1920s in fact and it started in the 1800s.

LOL,  you are a comedian  :)

Edited by south-lebanon, 20 March 2012 - 06:39 AM.


#88 ImAli

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Posted 20 March 2012 - 08:02 AM

View PostProfessor Higgins, on 19 March 2012 - 02:17 PM, said:

However it is true that the Lebanese Shia do not have any Sunni antecedents, unlike the Iranians who were all converted ( many of them by force) in the 16th century by the bloodthirsty Safavids.  The conversion process in Iraq was not complete until 1920s in fact and it started in the 1800s.

In fact the Iranian Kings required scholars from Lebanon and Bahrain to teach the people about Shi'ism.

Oh please.....there has been a sport of hunting shiites for nearly 1400 years. In fact my family is originally from a village in Syria right between Idlib and Aleppo....they had to leave or be hunted by the Ottomans over 300 years ago.

Edited by ImAli, 20 March 2012 - 08:03 AM.

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#89 Propaganda_of_the_Deed

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Posted 20 March 2012 - 08:37 AM

View Postsouth-lebanon, on 20 March 2012 - 06:47 AM, said:

View PostProfessor Higgins, on 19 March 2012 - 02:17 PM, said:

The conversion process in Iraq was not complete until 1920s in fact and it started in the 1800s.

In fact the Iranian Kings required scholars from Lebanon and Bahrain to teach the people about Shi'ism.



LOL,  you are a comedian  :)

He's not telling a joke actually.

From the book "The Shi'is of Iraq" by Yitzhak Nakash (I'm sure he got that info from here), states:

Quote

There is no evidence that would suggest that the Shi'is were ever close to forming the majority of the population in Iraq before the nineteenth or even twentieth century. Although conversion to Shi'ism took place in Iraq throughout Shi'i history, it was confined mainly to cities, where only a small fraction of the country's population lived. Occasionally, some Arab tribes were also converted to Shi'ism like the Bani Sulama, the Tayy, and the Sudan in the marshes near Khuzistan during the Musha'sha' Arab Shi'i dynasty of the fifteenth to sixteenth centuries. It was only following the massive conversion of the bulk of Iraq's nominally Sunni Arab tribes to Shi'ism mainly during the nineteenth century that the share of the Shi'is grew to its 1919 and 1932 estimates of 53 and 56 percent of the population, respectively.

You can read more from this chapter, as some of the book has been uploaded to Google Books:

http://books.google....epage&q&f=false

Read from page 25.

Also

Quote

Indeed the Safavid Shah Isma'il (and subsequent Persian rulers) invited Shi'ite `ulama (religious scholars) from Jabal `Amil in Lebanon and from Bahrain to Iran to enlist their aid in the formidable task of propagating the creed across the length and breadth of Sunni Iran.

http://www.nytimes.c...uller-arab.html

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"If you find yourself alone, riding in the green fields with the sun on your face, do not be troubled.

For you are in Elysium, and you're already dead!"



Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented.

~ Charles Patterson

#90 Professor Higgins

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Posted 20 March 2012 - 03:04 PM

Even until the 1970s some Shia tribes in Iraq had Sunni chiefs.

View PostImAli, on 20 March 2012 - 08:02 AM, said:

Oh please.....there has been a sport of hunting shiites for nearly 1400 years. In fact my family is originally from a village in Syria right between Idlib and Aleppo....they had to leave or be hunted by the Ottomans over 300 years ago.

That is the problem with these historical fairy tales, there is no historical evidence of these centuries-old massacres. We have evidence of recent Ottoman atrocities, like the Armenian and Assyrian genocides in 1915, the Toshet el-Nasara in Lebanon in the 1860s.

But all the historical accounts of Shias being killed and purged  for "1400 years" we do not have any material evidence, no historical record. And such accounts are always used to smear and discredit respected figures like our Caliphs (Omayyads), the Seljuqs, Salah al deen, etc. This only causes more fitnah.
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#91 ImAli

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Posted 20 March 2012 - 04:21 PM

View PostProfessor Higgins, on 20 March 2012 - 03:04 PM, said:

Even until the 1970s some Shia tribes in Iraq had Sunni chiefs.



That is the problem with these historical fairy tales, there is no historical evidence of these centuries-old massacres. We have evidence of recent Ottoman atrocities, like the Armenian and Assyrian genocides in 1915, the Toshet el-Nasara in Lebanon in the 1860s.

But all the historical accounts of Shias being killed and purged  for "1400 years" we do not have any material evidence, no historical record. And such accounts are always used to smear and discredit respected figures like our Caliphs (Omayyads), the Seljuqs, Salah al deen, etc. This only causes more fitnah.

I'm quite sure I know where my family came from and the reason they are where they are now....it isn't a fairy tale and it isn't an isolated case.

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#92 Professor Higgins

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Posted 20 March 2012 - 05:29 PM

View PostImAli, on 20 March 2012 - 04:21 PM, said:

I'm quite sure I know where my family came from and the reason they are where they are now....it isn't a fairy tale and it isn't an isolated case.

So was the story of their expulsion from Syria passed down from generation to generation ?
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#93 ImAli

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Posted 21 March 2012 - 11:04 AM

View PostProfessor Higgins, on 20 March 2012 - 05:29 PM, said:

So was the story of their expulsion from Syria passed down from generation to generation ?

No it wasn't.......our fathers, mothers, grandmothers, grandfathers, etc. were all lying ::sarcasm::

They were not expelled.....they fled. If they didn't flee they probably would have been killed.

Edited by ImAli, 21 March 2012 - 11:05 AM.

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#94 Professor Higgins

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Posted 21 March 2012 - 02:02 PM

View PostImAli, on 21 March 2012 - 11:04 AM, said:

No it wasn't.......our fathers, mothers, grandmothers, grandfathers, etc. were all lying ::sarcasm::

They were not expelled.....they fled. If they didn't flee they probably would have been killed.

Did they convert to Shiasim from Sunni ?
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#95 ImAli

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Posted 21 March 2012 - 04:19 PM

View PostProfessor Higgins, on 21 March 2012 - 02:02 PM, said:

Did they convert to Shiasim from Sunni ?

LOOOOL enough Higgens......and no they didn't convert hahahahaha.

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#96 Freeurmind

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Posted 25 May 2012 - 12:39 AM

View PostProfessor Higgins, on 19 March 2012 - 03:21 AM, said:

I am not talking about Lebanon, I am talking about Palestine, can you show me any trace of Shia in Palestine in the last 1400 years ?
Only one of the greatest muslim dynasties
http://en.wikipedia....timid_Caliphate

#97 Freeurmind

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Posted 25 May 2012 - 12:48 AM

View PostProfessor Higgins, on 19 March 2012 - 02:17 PM, said:

However it is true that the Lebanese Shia do not have any Sunni antecedents, unlike the Iranians who were all converted ( many of them by force) in the 16th century by the bloodthirsty Safavids.  The conversion process in Iraq was not complete until 1920s in fact and it started in the 1800s.

In fact the Iranian Kings required scholars from Lebanon and Bahrain to teach the people about Shi'ism.
Ohh my days, such lies !!
Iran was taken over and converted by Omar, so they were obviously not shia first.
But the mass population never accepted islam fully until they became shia. And this started to happen before the safavids, all the Safavid did was make shia islam the official religion, and they also mixed a lot of culture into their form of shia islam.

#98 MohsinQ

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Posted 25 June 2012 - 05:25 AM

Alright everybody. This is the latest news, 25 june 2012


The committee in Lebanon officially tasked with investigating the fate of Imam Musa Sadr denied that the body recently found in Libya belongs to Sadr.

According to a report carried by Al-Intiqad Daily, the committee issued a statement on Saturday, June 23, rejecting the recent remarks by head of Libya’s National Transitional Council Mustafa Abdul Jalil.

Abdul Jalil earlier this week said that Imam Musa Sadr’s body and remnants of his clothes have been found in Libya.

“We have discovered a mass grave and believe Imam Musa Sadr’s body might be among the bodies found there,” he said.

The committee said while it believes Sadr is alive, at the request of the Libyan side, it took part in carrying out DNA tests to determine whether the claim that the body belongs to Sadr is correct.

According to the committee, the outcome of the tests proved to contradict the claim.

Imam Musa Sadr and his two companions Sheikh Muhammad Yaqub and Abbas Badreddin disappeared in Libya in 1978 during a visit to the country. There have been a lot of efforts to determine their fate in the past three decades, efforts that have intensified since the fall of the former Libyan dictator Muammar Gaddafi.

http://www.shafaqna....-musa-sadr.html

#99 FirstofficerSam

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Posted 30 June 2012 - 06:14 PM

My wife is Alwaitte , and I'm shi3a , I don't understand them as we'll but their shahada is of ours ; Alwaittes do enjoy binge drinking and u'll b surprised , my wife quit after we got married but her dad and I cannot sit in the lounge room without him crackin a beer. They fast , and they go to hajj... They READ THE QURAN and they Worship Allah (S.W.T) , alot of sunnis make lies about the shia and allwaitte people claiming we worship imam Ali and we believe god made a mistake in chosing his prophet. But thats all sunni propganda to make us look like lunatics, so yeah I just wanted to share that bit with you, hahaha i double checked the quran my mother in law was reading isn't changed or had stuff added onto it. :D

Salams

#100 ya alii!!!

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Posted 03 July 2012 - 10:18 AM

View PostFirstofficerSam, on 30 June 2012 - 06:14 PM, said:

My wife is Alwaitte , and I'm shi3a , I don't understand them as we'll but their shahada is of ours ; Alwaittes do enjoy binge drinking and u'll b surprised , my wife quit after we got married but her dad and I cannot sit in the lounge room without him crackin a beer. They fast , and they go to hajj... They READ THE QURAN and they Worship Allah (S.W.T) , alot of sunnis make lies about the shia and allwaitte people claiming we worship imam Ali and we believe god made a mistake in chosing his prophet. But thats all sunni propganda to make us look like lunatics, so yeah I just wanted to share that bit with you, hahaha i double checked the quran my mother in law was reading isn't changed or had stuff added onto it. :D

Salams


thank you for straightening a few things up ! .. i respond to you in no way out of anger and or negativity, rather to insight the users on this forum . you proclaim that alawi's enjoy binge drinking , perhaps certain people do enjoy binge drinking , however do not get that mixed with the religious doctrine as i am  alawi and i will tell you that drinking is as haram as you would say . Their are many people who try to break up the ties between shia and alawi only to gain for themselves and weaken the followers of AHLUL BAIT .  i urge the users on this forum to disregard many of the comments that have been used to slander the name of the alawi's .

i for one come from a religious family where my uncle is a sheik , and never in my life have i heard  or been taught any of the things people say about us.



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