219 replies to this topic

[Socrates]

Muhammed Ali, on 20 August 2010 - 11:14 AM, said:

You are making the same mistake that I pointed out earlier. The word Hujjat can be used in different contexts. A Hujjat al-Islam may be a person who has enough knowledge to prove the truth about Islam whereas a Hujjat of Allah over the creation would be something of an entirely different level.

Anyhow I don't like how these titles are used for mediocre "scholars".



Is there anything wrong with being pro IRI?

Not at all. There is a problem with worshipping the country and believing it to be infallible though.

[Muhammed Ali]

Socrates, on 20 August 2010 - 11:15 AM, said:

Not at all. There is a problem with worshipping the country and believing it to be infallible though.

I can't disagree with what you wrote but you get some people who would rather see IRI become a secular state.

[Socrates]

Muhammed Ali, on 20 August 2010 - 11:19 AM, said:

I can't disagree with what you wrote but you get some people who would rather see IRI become a secular state.

They are wrong too. Extremes are always wrong, moderation is what our religion teaches us.

I have argued time and time again for a religious state, and I have no desire to see a secular state especially given the problems of the latter. But that does not mean I will accept every state claiming to be religious as the best one. Any state ruled by anyone other than infallible will always have problems and thus always room for improvement.

[Muhammed Ali]

Socrates, on 20 August 2010 - 11:21 AM, said:

Any state ruled by anyone other than infallible will always have problems and thus always room for improvement.

I would even go up to the extent of saying that any state that is ruled by an infallible but has fallibles in the administration or even amongst its citizens; will also have problems. The leader may not be blamed but the state will certainly not be a utopia. The anti IRI brigade don't seem to realise how difficult it is to rule a country.

[Nader Zaveri]

Muhammed Ali, on 20 August 2010 - 10:54 AM, said:

It's a common complaint of the Akhbaris: http://hubeali.com/a...s-On-Titles.pdf

This website is not an "akhbaree" website, nor does it even hold the same positions as the akhbarees in the past held. Please do not degrade the akhbaree and stoop them that low. This website is pure fitnah.

Edited by Nader Zaveri, 20 August 2010 - 11:40 AM.

[Muhammed Ali]

Nader Zaveri, on 20 August 2010 - 11:40 AM, said:

This website is not an "akhbaree" website, nor does it even hold the same positions as the akhbarees in the past held. Please do not degrade the akhbaree and stoop them that low. This website is pure fitnah.

Yes they are the modern day south asian type of akhbaris.

[ImamAliLover]

If he is the Wali Amr al-Muslimeen, then why doesn't he protect his Muslim subjects in Pakistan and all over the world?  Why only Iran (and sometimes Palestine)?

He's not the Wali Amr of the Muslimeen simply because he has no authority over Muslims anywhere other than Iran, nor does he even act like it.  Until the time that he acts like the Wali of all the Muslims, he is the Wali Amr of Iran (since that's the only place where is he the wali amr) and only Iran.

Edited by ImamAliLover, 13 July 2011 - 10:47 AM.

[baradar_jackson]

ImamAliLover, on 13 July 2011 - 10:45 AM, said:

If he is the Wali Amr al-Muslimeen, then why doesn't he protect his Muslim subjects in Pakistan and all over the world?  Why only Iran (and sometimes Palestine)?

He's not the Wali Amr of the Muslimeen simply because he has no authority over Muslims anywhere other than Iran, nor does he even act like it.  Until the time that he acts like the Wali of all the Muslims, he is the Wali Amr of Iran (since that's the only place where is he the wali amr) and only Iran.

Quote

هدف اين نيست كه ما انقلاب را به شكل متعارف در عرف سياسى و قاموس سياسى به اين كشور و آن كشور صادر كنيم؛ انقلاب چيزى نيست كه با ابزارهاى سياسى بشود آن را صادر كرد يا با ابزارهاى نظامى و امنيتى بشود آن را پيش برد؛ اين غلط است؛ ما از اول، اين راه را بستيم.

مسئله‌ى جمهورى اسلامى، مسئله‌ى بازتوليد معارف والاى اسلامى است، تا مسلمانها احساس هويت كنند، احساس شخصيت اسلامى كنند، با تعاليم اسلام كه نجاتبخش بشريت است، آشنا شوند؛

Source: http://farsi.khamene...ontent?id=10432

It says:

The goal is not that we export the revolution to this country or that country in a standard form, with the intent to forge political systems in the mold of our own. Revolution is not something which can be exported through political means; it is not something that can be advanced through military or security forces. This is a false notion, and from the very beginning we made it clear that we would not follow such a path.

The purpose of the Islamic Republic is the propagation of the lofty principles of Islam in order that Muslims feel a sense of identity; in order that they feel a sense of having an Islamic character; in order that they become familiar with the teachings of Islam, which is the liberator of humanity.

Brother, for 15 years before the triumph of the revolution, do you know who was the rightful leader of Iran? Do you know who was the legitimate authority? It wasn't Mohammad Reza Shah. It was Imam Khomeini.

There is a difference between nominal political authority, and rightful authority. Also, note that there is a difference between "power" and "authority." Authority implies legitimacy; power does not. Just because the leader may not have power in many parts of the world, this does not mean he does not have authority.

Edited by baradar_jackson, 13 July 2011 - 02:54 PM.

[Ya Aba 3abdillah]

Other title includes Naqib al-Nuqaba.

[The Persian Shah]

Quote

If he is the Wali Amr al-Muslimeen, then why doesn't he protect his Muslim subjects in Pakistan and all over the world? Why only Iran (and sometimes Palestine)?

He's not the Wali Amr of the Muslimeen simply because he has no authority over Muslims anywhere other than Iran, nor does he even act like it. Until the time that he acts like the Wali of all the Muslims, he is the Wali Amr of Iran (since that's the only place where is he the wali amr) and only Iran.

Do you actually listen to his speeches, or is it that just because you haven't heard/seen anything, you've concluded incorrectly based on your ignorance? Did you listen to him after the Pakistan floods? Did you hear him after the Arab revolutions?

[titumir]

I love it how there are Muslims who will moan and complain all day long about Muslims being too lazy and corrupt.

Then when something like the Islamic Revolution happens, do these fancy intellectual Muslims join in or do any work? No! They sit back and criticize the new Islamic government. They don't do anything to actually make it better, but just sit back and compare it to Western countries which are 300 year old working democracies and complain.

Ayatollah Ali Khamenei IS the rightful Wali Amr Al Muslimeen because he has risen up to the challenge and taken it, while no one else had the courage. Now as long as he doesn't do anything clearly against Islam I believe that all Muslims must follow him. Any Muslim who says, "I don't support Iran because it is not perfect" is just a hypocrite. Now is not the time to bicker about but unite.

Dont ask what Ayatollah Khamenei has done for Muslims outside Iran. What have Muslims outside Iran done for Ayatollah Khamenei that he should help them? Is it fair that Muslims around the world shall sit on their asses and complain and Ayatollah Khamenei should do everything for them?

[Professor Higgins]

Wali Amr ?  Who's that ?   What the hell is that ?



More than 1 million  people have died since 1979, most of them Shia, and almost all of them Muslimeen, becoz of his and his Guru's attempts at "exporting the revolution".


They should rather concentrate on memorizing the Quran and debating on vexing and hair-splitting issues of Tahara, Nikah, Sawm, Salah, Riba, Ghusl, etc. than on politics.  The Hawzas are place for him, not any political office.

Edited by Professor Higgins, 25 October 2011 - 04:47 PM.

[Waiting for HIM]

titumir, on 16 July 2011 - 11:43 AM, said:

I love it how there are Muslims who will moan and complain all day long about Muslims being too lazy and corrupt.

Then when something like the Islamic Revolution happens, do these fancy intellectual Muslims join in or do any work? No! They sit back and criticize the new Islamic government. They don't do anything to actually make it better, but just sit back and compare it to Western countries which are 300 year old working democracies and complain.

Ayatollah Ali Khamenei IS the rightful Wali Amr Al Muslimeen because he has risen up to the challenge and taken it, while no one else had the courage. Now as long as he doesn't do anything clearly against Islam I believe that all Muslims must follow him. Any Muslim who says, "I don't support Iran because it is not perfect" is just a hypocrite. Now is not the time to bicker about but unite.

Dont ask what Ayatollah Khamenei has done for Muslims outside Iran. What have Muslims outside Iran done for Ayatollah Khamenei that he should help them? Is it fair that Muslims around the world shall sit on their asses and complain and Ayatollah Khamenei should do everything for them?

That is because unfortunately majority of Muslims are Sunnis of Umer and Muawaiah.
To Sunnis who think ill of Iranian government, hear them praising Abbasids, Ottomans, Sauds, Salal ud Din, Saddam, Qadhafi, OBL, Mulla Umer and every other clown in between.
But when it comes to Iran, all they have to say is weird conspiracy theories. These Sunnis/Wahabis are getting what they deserve, treated as rabid dog of the humanity.

Some Shias also criticize, more likely out of ignorance and out of fashion.

Edited by Waiting for HIM, 26 October 2011 - 01:26 PM.

[bandekhoda]

Waiting for HIM, on 26 October 2011 - 01:24 PM, said:

Some Shias also criticize, more likely out of ignorance and out of fashion.

yeah it can't POSSIBLY be because the Iranian government and the rahbar actually make mistakes!

[baradar_jackson]

bandekhoda, on 27 October 2011 - 09:35 AM, said:

yeah it can't POSSIBLY be because the Iranian government and the rahbar actually make mistakes!

1) Distinction should be made between "Iranian government" and the Leader. "Iranian government" is made up of many officials, petty and large, who may or may not believe in Islamic government, in WF, and in the leadership of Seyyed Ali Khamenei!

2) Everyone makes mistakes. The question is: is that enough to warrant opposition? Who is more likely to make a mistake: me or you or some other illiterate person, or the Honorable Leader of the Revolution? That's what you hojjatiyehs as well as the Akhbari hippies always fail to recognize: the question of "does the Leader make mistakes" is irrelevant!

[bandekhoda]

baradar_jackson, on 27 October 2011 - 12:53 PM, said:

1) Distinction should be made between "Iranian government" and the Leader. "Iranian government" is made up of many officials, petty and large, who may or may not believe in Islamic government, in WF, and in the leadership of Seyyed Ali Khamenei!

The officials should abide by the constitution and should therefore believe in Islamic government, WF and leadership of Khamenei.

Quote

2) Everyone makes mistakes. The question is: is that enough to warrant opposition? Who is more likely to make a mistake: me or you or some other illiterate person, or the Honorable Leader of the Revolution? That's what you hojjatiyehs as well as the Akhbari hippies always fail to recognize: the question of "does the Leader make mistakes" is irrelevant!

I'm neither a Hojjatieh nor an Akhbari. I don't have a problem with the concept of WF if implemented correctly. My problem is with Khamenei who has created a system which is unable reform itself through criticism..and look how this mentality has been passed down to his followers; you must either be ignorant or doing it out of fashion if you criticize.

[Ya Aba 3abdillah]

bandekhoda, on 27 October 2011 - 01:46 PM, said:

Khamenei who has created a system

He created the system did he? Boy you really haven't a clue have you. I'm guessing he also created the Iranian constitution also. And quite possibly put the moon in orbit around the earth too.

[baradar_jackson]

Ya Aba 3abdillah, on 04 February 2012 - 03:06 PM, said:

He created the system did he? Boy you really haven't a clue have you. I'm guessing he also created the Iranian constitution also. And quite possibly put the moon in orbit around the earth too.

I swear I wanna blow my brains out any time an anti-WF Iranian begins talking about politics.

Because all you get is this same nonsense.

"Khamenei owns Farsi 1."
"Khamenei owns VOA."
"The Zionists own Farsi 1 and they started it so Iranians would stop watching VOA." (My personal favorite!!!!!!)
"Khamenei is Putin's puppet."
"Khamenei is Ahmadinejad's puppet."
"Ahmadinejad is Khamenei's puppet."
"Khamenei was installed by the Americans."
"Khamenei is in alliance with the Zionists."
etc...

I swear........... it's enough to drive a man insane.

Edited by baradar_jackson, 04 February 2012 - 07:52 PM.

[John Al-Ameli]

Down with the enemies of Welayat al Fakih

[Ali_Hussain]

RoAcHy, on 04 February 2012 - 10:01 PM, said:

Down with the enemies of Welayat al Fakih

I thought you'd been warned about this, it's:

Velayat e Faghih