shiasoldier786, on 20 August 2010 - 10:50 AM, said:
Nevermind Abdul Rahman, Im talking about using the attributes mentioned in the Quran about Allah (swt), which are used for masoooms. Allah is All-Just. Now, why dont you have a problem with people also calling the Imams "All-Just"?
Who calls the Imams "All-Just"? Doing so would be both kufr and shirk.
are the manifestation of justice because they are Allah's representatives. Please stop clinging to the straws.
Muhammed Ali, on 20 August 2010 - 10:54 AM, said:
It's a common complaint of the Akhbaris: http://hubeali.com/a...s-On-Titles.pdf
They need to prove that those are exclusive titles of the Imams [a] and before doing that they would need to show that those phrases were used as titles and not just as descriptions.
Some of their arguments are rather weak, for example they say that the words ulama/alim are exclusive to the Imams [a] because of the hadith:
Ali ibn Ibrahim has narrated from Muhammad ibn ‘Isa from Yunus from Jamil who has said the following: “I heard Imam abu ‘Abd Allah, saying, ‘People become of three groups: Scholars, those who learn and garbled ones. We are the scholars.
Our followers are the ones who learn. The rest of the people are garbled ones.”
However there are narrations where the Imams [a] use the word alim for fallibles too. The word ulama in the above mentioned hadith has been used in a particular context and those malang types are applying that contextual meaning to all other contexts. It's like when the sunnis take the hadith: "The ulama are the inheritors of the prophets and the prophets did not leave dihams and dinars .....", the sunnis wrongly generalise the restriction on prophetic inheritance.
Lets look at the titles that I mentioned:
Wali al Amr al Muslimeen : The master of the affairs of the believers.
Now lets go back to the Qur'an and see 4:59 where we know it refers to Ahlul Bayt
. It is our argument against the Sunnis that a non Masoom cannot be the master of the affairs.
Hujjat ul Islam : The proof of Islam
It is quite clear that hadith of the Prophet
if there was no Hujjat the world would perish - refers to the Masoomeen once again. Who else could dare to be the proof of Islam other than one without whom Islam would cease to exist?
Ayatollah : sign of Allah
I give you this one, as it could be used in a generic sense, as we are all signs of Allah as his creation.
As for the hadith you've posted, true I agree, but that was never my contention nor my argument.