219 replies to this topic

[shiasoldier786]

Ibrahim Nakhaee, on 01 February 2010 - 11:33 AM, said:

Can you even read and comprehend properly? I've already said I have no objections to his empowerment regardless of his leadership quality or the lack of it. Do you need a signed stamp paper from the courts or something? Sad thing is that you compare the mullahs to the Ahl al-bayt as if they are fulfilling their sunnah by tolerating the Green Movement. That's the weirdest thing I've read in a while. Is there an overwhelming army and a Muawiyah as leader in the Green movement?

Looking at the lives of the Aimmah and trying to learn from their decisions, is not the same as comparing ''mullahs to the ahlul bayt''. NOBODY here has ever compared the status of the Aimmah or the 12th Imam (ATF) to Imam Khamenei (HA). Why are people so desperate to allege something that no shia in the correct mind would say?

The Aimmah are over role models. Their lives are an example for us. Should our leaders stop looking up to them?  

And how do you suggest the Green movement to be dealt with? How did our Imams deal with their enemies? Was it not with love and kindness. Have you not read Imam Ali's letter to his governor Malik Ashter? Here is an extract:

'' Develop in your heart the feeling of love for your people and let it be the source of kindliness and blessing to them. Do not behave with them like a barbarian, and do not appropriate to yourself that which belongs to them. Remember that the citizens of the state are of two categories. They are either your brethren in religion or your brethren in kind. They are subject to infirmities and liable to commit mistakes. Some indeed do commit mistakes. But forgive them even as you would like God to forgive you. Bear in mind that you are placed over them, even as I am placed over you.''

I can show you a video in which Imam Khamenei (HA) tells a crowd of his followers, to not retaliate against anyone, even if they see them burning his, or Imam Khomeinis (HA) picture. Ofcourse, I'm sure you find this very incompetent of him.

Ibrahim Nakhaee, on 01 February 2010 - 11:33 AM, said:

Are there all munafiqs who fall asleep as Khamenai tells them in the mosque to rise up and do something about the Green movement? And if there are then thats also a medal on your chest - the loyal followers. Did you steal from and abandon Khamenai as Kufis did to Imam Hassan so he has to abandon all efforts against the Green Movement? No wonder you've learnt about the Ahl al-bayt from their "most righteous representatives", the mullahs, that you give such astonishing comparisons between them like a 5 year old. Get your historical facts straight first. You can read it from a book. Compromise with the Satan when Islam is threatened was NOT acceptable to Imam Hussain . Simple as that. Politics is mullah's hobby alone.

What about Imam Ali's compromise with those who had attacked Bibi Fatema (sa)?

It all depends on the situation. The Green movement in general do not pose a threat to Islam, and if some elements within them do, they are and will be dealt with accordingly. Comparing them with Yazid (la) is I must say, the weirdest thing I've heard in a while.  

Ibrahim Nakhaee, on 01 February 2010 - 11:33 AM, said:

But anyway, whats been taking your wali amr so long? Please tell him to rise up and take things into his own hands for the entire ummah. How many times do I have to repeat that sentence? As if its all depending on this kangaroo court and this childish debate on ShiaChat. As if something good will actually come out of it whenever this thing actually, if at all, happens. If you want to point out something then do it like men, stop complaining like little girls. Prove that you're today's standard bearing youth of Ghazi Abbas by being straight forward atleast. If I'm wrong I'm wrong, but do prove me wrong. Tell the holy Wali Amr Al-muslimeen to come down from his cross and set the world on the straight path. He has my sincerest prayers for him. We'll have plenty of time to deal with the Green movement afterwards.

Do we look like followers of Ibn Taimiyyah to you, that we will go around wanting to implement the Sharia by force everywhere? Though, the Islamic Republic, and the Wali Amr Al-Muslimeen have been supportive of Islamic organizations, be it Hamas or Hezbollah, in order to help oppressed Muslims against the enemies of Islam.

Rearding your grumblings about the Green movement, again, refer to imam Ali's letter to Malik Ashtar.

http://www.tebyan.ne....aspx?pid=27382

W.salaam

[Darth Vader]

Surely if we're true muslims albeit the predicted minority that'll stay on the right path till the end, then all who threaten us and our property are minions of Satan and therefore should be destroyed swiftly, while we have the chance to do so. The truth is that even "the representatives of Aimmah athaar" are not sure if they are what they claim to be. They are worried about international press which will never ever praise them or any of their policies and will simply sweep under the rug all their good deeds like the pure Satanists they are. They'll bash them always. So why worry about them? Do not force shariah upon munafiqeen laughibly like the followers of abdul wahab and ibn taymiyah, simply work on our survival instead. Enforce the law. Make Iran a super power. Make deals with your neighbors and be robust in preparing for whats coming. Imam Ali was told by the holy Prophet not to use the Zulfiqar since Islam was in its infancy. Therefore sadly that example won't do either. Shove the Green movement into jail for a good start. Or just let them be but don't allow them to break the law. Do not ignore the strengthening of the state. Don't be like the greedy selfish and munafiq politicians who are running most of the world's governments today. Only examplary leadership by men of examplary character is what the muslim ummah needs the most today. Why can't Iran be like China? Pakistanis are spoilt munafiqeen who like to steal from others and relax so we can't be hard working and progressed like China. We were born in the agonizing grip of Satan. But you're a free and concious nation. You were the region's only ancient super power so become a super power now, become examplary people and make us all proud. That's what I wish to see. If the mullah becomes a drag, a burden and stands in the way of that then uproot him with no remorse.

[Ali Fazel]

Ibrahim Nakhaee, on 01 February 2010 - 11:33 AM, said:

Can you even read and comprehend properly? I've already said I have no objections to his empowerment regardless of his leadership quality or the lack of it. Do you need a signed stamp paper from the courts or something? Sad thing is that you compare the mullahs to the Ahl al-bayt as if they are fulfilling their sunnah by tolerating the Green Movement. .........................................................

Ibrahim You seem to be one of those who hate Marjiyet (Akhbari)

Remember Imam Ali (A) found himself powerless in face of circumstances.
Many prophets (S) did.  What makes you think Sayyied Ali Khameini can perform any better than them?
He is not even a masoom like the fourteen Masooms(A).

Besides we have an army of Shaitans, who have surrounded us, poised with their guns drawn ready to unleash a hail of bullets and remove us from the face of this earth. --- Continuous plans are being drawn up to destroy us.

What we have is the best possible system - You have very little faith in prophet (sawws). - Did he not equate the Ulemah of his Ummah to Ambiah of bani Israel? Today, if Islam has been brought back from the graveyard,  it was the work of Imam Khomeini – When you see Shias standing strong in the face of aggression from the west, its because of people like Sistani, Hassan Nassrullah, and Sayyied Ali Khameini.

For the progress on the worldly scale (political grounds and establishment of Shia control on Shia lands), what credit can you give to the traitors -like the  Akhbari, Wahabi Shias, Moderized world craving people like Musavi, and critics like yourself?   NONE?   - What have you done for Islam and in the service for he advent of Imam Mahdi (ATF) - Can you list anything credible?

BTW - You can look down on discussions on Shia Chat - But know, that this is not an Islamic parliament, neither is it a body that makes decisions for the Muslim Ummah --- We are just here to discuss, learn, understand and exchange views - nothing else.


Don't take this as an attack or confrontation - I only hope you understand - this attitude ( i.e.  I know more than you and your Ulemah - I am more Holy than thou) does not suit us - We should join hands and confront our common enemies. Least we can do is, support our Ulemah in what ever capacity we can and refrain from attacking their character or ability.

Edited by Ali Fazel, 03 February 2010 - 08:40 AM.

[Darth Vader]

Quote

You have very little faith in prophet (sawws). - Did he not equate the Ulemah of his Ummah to Ambiah of bani Israel?

You have very little understanding and observation. If we have ambiya of bani israel among us, why is our species gradually degenerating into demons from hell itself by losing all morality and values? What the hell are they doing? You are naive because every person wearing a beard, a turban, an arabic gown, white clothes, and looks and speaks like a scholar or has a degree from some islamic institute is considered a scholar in your eyes and you are prepared to surrender yourselves to such people. What islamic university did Awais Al-Qarni , Abu Dharr Al-Ghifari or Bahlol Dana and countless many like him studied from? But no, you can only see turbans and qualifications. If they destroy your religion for you, you'll follow blindly, like in the case of a certain scholar in Iraq I've mentioned previously. He has all those pre-requisistes yet he is a . . .

The only problem I have with this addition to our doctrine is that it will probably affect me adversely. I do not intend to look up to or obey dishonest, money grubbing mullahs like Sajid Naqvi. Sitting in their 100,000$ vehicles with black screens and robbing people in the name of religion. I am from Pakistan and Khamenai won't be affecting my life in any event. He doesn't even reply to my e-mails regarding problems we face here like Parachinar and other discrimination. Doesn't matter if you count me in this ummah or not. But the corrupt mullahs here will surely take advantage of such a new law and will only increase our suffering.

I firmly believe that ony the awaited Imam will affect the entire ummah. Scholars are not meant for such a global thing nor are they capable for it. But still, go ahead and make him what you want to. Akhbari or not, this much should be common sense. When I see a scholar who is as impressive in action as well as his speech, I'll gladly start following him till death but until then I'll spare myself such foolishness. There are none such in Pakistan atleast, nor India. You see, India is a secular nation with their sword at the throats of the minorities. And Pakistan is a bigotted Sunni puppet state in serious turmoil. I doubt Khamenai or their local representatives can help us in any way but I hope anyway so please do go ahead with it.

Quote

What have you done for Islam and in the service for he advent of Imam Mahdi (ATF) - Can you list anything credible?

I haven't done any good deed to dangle it infront of people for worldly gain or good reputation in the eyes of people like your scholars and other people like to. I have done things for the pleasure of God alone and I will save the details of the services I have done and am doing for Islam. None of your business. No offense.

Edited by Ibrahim Nakhaee, 03 February 2010 - 01:48 PM.

[Ali Fazel]

Ibrahim Nakhaee, on 03 February 2010 - 01:36 PM, said:

You have very little understanding and observation. If we have ambiya of bani israel among us, why is our species gradually degenerating into demons from hell itself by losing all morality and values? ..............................................................

First ---- The way you are complaining about our Marjas - and Wali-e-faqih Sayyied Ali Khameini - you probably expect him to do miracles -- Even Nabi Nuh (A) with 1150 years of his life was not able to change the people.

You brother say, I have very little knowledge - but is it too difficult for you to understand that The ambiah of bani Israel could not rule the people. Musa (A) prayed to Allah to distance him from the Israelite. Most of the ambiah were tortured, belied or imprisoned. Hadret Isa (A) was betrayed and after his demise they distorted the religion too.

Even Ali (A) struggled all through his life to change people, and yet look at the state. Most were not even loyal to him. They even turned against Imam Hassan (A) immediately after his demise (after Imam Ali (A) passed away). Even Prophet Muhammad could not command complete loyalty. They refuse to give him pen and paper on his last moments. And immediately after his demise they rejected the leader he had chosen for them and elected their own -   WHY DON’T YOU ACCUSE PROPHET (SAWWS) OF FAILING IN HIS MISSION like you accuse Khameini?

WHAT DO YOU EXPECT FROM KHAMEINI?  Miracles?

Quote

I haven't done any good deed to dangle it in front of people for worldly gain or good reputation in the eyes of people like your scholars and other people like to. I have done things for the pleasure of God alone and I will save the details of the services I have done and am doing for Islam. None of your business. No offense.

Finally - What you have done with your Amaals in the way of Allah (SWT) (salaat, fasting, khairat) is not a gain for this Ummah - Since you are attacking the marjiyet and wali-e-faqih - It is my business to ask you, "What have you done for this Ummah" --- If not, what right have you to criticize them?

Could you established an Islamic government - NO
Could you hold Ders-e-kharij and create high ranking Ulemah --- NO
Could you handle the rebellion (like the deceptive green movement in Iran supported by the enemies)    --- NO
Could you mobilize millions to face the enemy - Like Imam Khomeini did and Khameini commands today.  - No
Do you even have the ability to raise 40 people to follow you ---- NO

BUT YOU THINK ARE QUALIFIED TO CRITIZE THEM  - Does that make sense to you, brother?

My advise.
Stay within your status and recognize the level of your own ability and Ilm.
Do not try and advise or criticize those who have more knowledge than you - Instead learn from them.

Edited by Ali Fazel, 03 February 2010 - 06:05 PM.

[Darth Vader]

You're making hogwash statements now. You're the pointless criticizer. The Prophet and Aimmah did exactly as Allah (swt) commanded them to. They weren't overpowered in the least, rather they followed instructions most patiently. It all had a purpose and that was to test humanity and create examples to follow and rules to remember for all mankind. The Prophet knew about Karbala through revelation and he knew about the past and future treacheries full well. In Kitab Sulaym he told Ali the rule of Allah (swt) for all ambiya and nations, how the Al-Mighty purifies his good people in this life through the evil munafiqeen who are empowered and who persecute and murder the pure slaves of Allah, so the munafiqeen may suffer eternally and the good people who suffer in this world may rejoice eternally as His guests.

This life is nothing but a short game and this world is absolutely worthless. Maula Ali used to divorce it three times each day. Yet his followers are so concerned about worldly affairs and have given up the matters of religion and their authority to the mullah, who is the contractor of religion while religion was intended for all people. Does Khamenai receive divine revelations too which he followed to tolerate the brigands? All he has to do is put the law breakers in jail. Why doesn't the state's law apply to the miscreants and what sort of sad mockery is this with such parables? Did Khamenai bring about the Iranian revolution? He is a different person. Where is it written to make shooras, pray tell? And if making a shoora is a good thing then why blame the ancient people who also followed a shoora instead? What good came out of it? Khamenai is not Khomeini.

And like I said, I do serve a little part of the ummah sincerely in utmost capacity and because I can not establish "an islamic government" ran by mullahs nor I'm interested in doing such a thing to eat khums and zakat money like mullahs do. Even if I have hundreds of followers I'd only sacrifice for them and rather look up to God alone for deliverance. Establishing peace for all living beings and managing their affairs are completely in His authority. We're all told to wait for the awaited Caliph of God and stay calm in this age of darkness "like a pregnant she camel" as Maula Imam Ali foretold us to. Iran had a revolution because of its nation who had the blessing of Allah in the shape of a good leader and now he is gone. If Iran is progressing admirably today then the credit goes to its hard working people. A government is there for the benefit, comfort and ease of the nation, its not something special or extraordinary if it fulfills its intended purpose. It is supposed to make the nation progress and to guard its interests and fulfill its responsibilities. Yes there are extremely corrupt puppet governments that become the nemesis of its people, like here in Pakistan for example, which is an extremely unfortunate occurence and a hinderance for the people and a very agonizing thing and a punishment. Our politicians, mullahs and organizations are corrupt because our society is corrupt which provides manpower to all departments. But still, we're surviving in Pakistan, we help each other and enjoy our company in our social circle of Shias and work for mutual benefit albeit on a much smaller scale than Iran. All thanks to God. We certainly don't need a corrupt mullah taxing us and pushing us around unnecessarily.

This entire planet belongs to God and Muslims are found in each nook and corner of it. Think outside Iran for a minute and consider the entire ummah when having such absurd ideas. Your shoora and innovative laws to empower the mullah means absolutely nothing for the entire ummah except Iranians themselves. Thats the bottomline you all fail to understand. And for Iranians its result can go either way according to what God wants since He is the ultimate authority. If this idea is implemented in Pakistan I'm 100% sure that corrupt mullah leaders like Sajid Naqvi will make us suffer even more.

Edited by Ibrahim Nakhaee, 04 February 2010 - 09:23 AM.

[Shiatullah]

http://www.theislami...qih/wilayat.htm

Ayatullah 'Ali Mishkini

Aaaaaand its all over.







Hasan Sajjad
President

[Ali Fazel]

Ibrahim Nakhaee, on 04 February 2010 - 09:19 AM, said:

You're making hogwash statements now. You're the pointless criticizer. The Prophet and Aimmah did exactly as Allah (swt) commanded them to. ………………………

Depends on what angle you look at it from – I agree with you on the above statement. Imam Ali (A) helped all the Ambiah and even advised them – He knew of all that was to happen until the day of judgment.  Prophet (sawws) said,  he was afraid to reveal the true merits of Imam Ali (A)  fearing that people would either start believing him as God or Son of God, just as the Christian attribute divinity to H Isa(A).

Quote

This life is nothing but a short game and this world is absolutely worthless. Maula Ali used to divorce it three times each day. Yet his followers are so concerned about worldly affairs and have given up the matters of religion and their authority to the mullah, who is the contractor of religion while religion was intended for all people. Does Khamenai receive divine revelations too which he followed to tolerate the brigands? All he has to do is put the law breakers in jail. Why doesn't the state's law apply to the miscreants and what sort of sad mockery is this with such parables? Did Khamenai bring about the Iranian revolution? He is a different person. Where is it written to make shooras, pray tell? And if making a shoora is a good thing then why blame the ancient people who also followed a shoora instead? What good came out of it? Khamenai is not Khomeini.

Now Look at this from another angle –  Our Imam’s are not with us. Our 12th Imam (A) is in ghaiba. So who do we have to guide us? Who would take control and establish a government that is Islamic in nature? -------   Do you think,  we should give up and hide in our houses and let the kuffar and Mushriqeen take over?

Imam Khomeini was the best thing we had – and today Sayyied Ali Khameini is the best thing we have. He dose not receive divine guidance like our Aiemah. ------- When Imam Ali (A)  was in Kufa while his governor Malik-e-Aster was ruling Egypt.  Do you think Malik-e-Aster had ilm-ul-Ghaib?

What the use of our Imam Mahdi (A)  to remain in Ghaibah?  He could have as well, gone to the 4th heaven and spend time with H. Isa (A) there.   WHY IS HE HERE  WHEN  HE IS NOT RULING THIS EARTH ? – All the controls on this earth are in the hands of worldly rulers ( good, bad, tyrants, evil and all). ---  The only reason (I can think of) for him to be on this earth  is, he monitors us and comes to our help from time to time. ---   Can you think of a better reason?

We should be happy that we have at least an (Islamic government) Islamic republic, whose head is an Ulemah. This is the nearest possible thing we can possible have to the government of Imam Mahdi (A). AND If our marja make mistakes,  Imam (A) will inshallah guide them.

Those who accuse Sayyied Ali Khameili of  not living up to the high standards (that they have in their imaginations), can they take over and do better ? ----- CAN YOU? So why are you complaining?

The point I made above is that  Allah(swt) gave mankind Free will. And prophets were not able to control the people neither was prophet (sawws) nor Ali (a). To do that they would have to take away the free will.   Allowing mankind the free will tied their hands – Thus the Divine plans were executed by our Aiemah – As you mentioned above

The main Question is, do you expect Khameini to perform better than Imam Ali (A)

Quote

…….. I'm interested in doing such a thing to eat khums and zakat money like mullahs do. Even if I have hundreds of followers I'd only sacrifice for them and rather look up to God alone for deliverance.

…………... We're all told to wait for the awaited Caliph of God and stay calm in this age of darkness "like a pregnant she camel" as Maula Imam Ali foretold us to.

Quote

……………………Our politicians, mullahs and organizations are corrupt because our society is corrupt which provides manpower to all departments. But still, we're surviving in Pakistan, we help each other and enjoy our company in our social circle of Shias and work for mutual benefit albeit on a much smaller scale than Iran. All thanks to God. We certainly don't need a corrupt mullah taxing us and pushing us around unnecessarily…………………………………….. Your shoora and innovative laws to empower the mullah means absolutely nothing for the entire ummah except Iranians themselves. That’s the bottom line you all fail to understand..

First, Remember you are making accusations. This is not a Ghiba, its much worst. Do you have any proof that Sayyied Ali Khameini is usurping Khums? If not you have committed a grave sin ( violation of hukuuk-un-naas)–-----   Allah can forgive the sins we do as disobediance to Him (huquuk-ul-lah) BUT He will never forgive hukuuk-un-naas.

Secondly, I see you think you could conduct yourself better than the Mujtahideen – While you do not even have the ilm they posses – Its like saying, “I do not know much about nuclear reactors but I could make one better than the nuclear scientist.”

Thirdly, you should know,  ‘charity begins at home’,  ‘You do not go and preach to others before preaching to you own family’, Clean you own house first before tending to others’. ---  So It should not surprise you if Sayyied Ali Khameini and the Irani Merjas attend to the problems of their own country first.

Edited by Ali Fazel, 04 February 2010 - 10:02 PM.

[comrade]

Ali Fazel, on 04 February 2010 - 09:54 PM, said:

First, Remember you are making accusations. This is not a Ghiba, its much worst. Do you have any proof that Sayyied Ali Khameini is usurping Khums? If not you have committed a grave sin ( violation of hukuuk-un-naas)–-----   Allah can forgive the sins we do as disobediance to Him (huquuk-ul-lah) BUT He will never forgive hukuuk-un-naas.

Brother, don't let it get to you.  It's unfortunate that some so-called "Shias" on this forum have no problem slandering and making accusations against the olema, all the while seeming to give kofr and munafiqeen a free pass, or in the case of some, as a form of guidance.  

I have non-Muslim friends who I have more in common with in some areas than the so-called "Shias" on this forum.  Now that is the really sad part.

[comrade]

Zahratul_Islam, on 06 February 2010 - 04:23 PM, said:

I don't mind your inaccurate, divisive and simplistic talking points. I just find it amusing how you like to play victim as soon as enough people call you out on your inaccuracy, divisiveness, or simplistic talking points. You call people who disagree with you and your idols "so called shias" and you level all sorts of accusations against them that you cannot possibly substantiate. Fine. Whatever. No one who matters takes that kind of mentality seriously. Just spare us all the little fit of drama where you lament the akhlaq of the "lesser" shias and leave to immerse yourself in conversations where you feel more at ease because no one among your charming circle of friends happens to disagree with you. No wonder you are so insufferable, apparently even your non muslim friends sound more Muslim™ than people on this site.

Just an observation.

I don't aim for the triumph of my own personal opinions. They are simply presented with the aim to know what Islam teaches, nothing more. Islam makes it clear what is a real Shia, and it surely isn't those who had distanced themselves from Muslim bin Aqeel or the ones who distance themselves from our olema, maraja, and vali-e-amr al muslimeen today. What Islamic justifications do you really have for turning away from their authority? Objectivity, that's all I really want.

So far only one side has actually given extensive references to Islamic traditions and Islamic scripture to back up a principle and notion. All I see from the other side is bitterness, self-logic, self-enlightenment, and subjective tirades.

When was the last time you or your clique of French revolutionaries quoted a verse of Qur'an or hadith to back up anything you say?

[comrade]

Zahratul_Islam, on 06 February 2010 - 05:58 PM, said:

My aim isn't to try and validate the utter nonsense you spew. I was just pointing out the amusing tendency you have to be divisive, simplistic and ignorant and then cry foul and play victim. I told you before Mahdaviat- engaging in the same pattern of behavior you accuse the insufferable intellectuals of engaging in doesn't make you look like a humble man dear- it makes you look like a hypocrite. A weak one at that.

Salaam to you to you too.  

Zahratul_Islam, on 06 February 2010 - 05:58 PM, said:

You have audacity to ask for objectivity while you lump critics of the IRI in with those who distanced themselves from Muslim bin Aqeel? Why don't you just draw analogies with yazeed himself and call it a day? Oh wait.. y'all have..

You are not living like Imam Aii and you are most certainly not fighting the battles of Imam Hussain, so do us all a favor and tone down the martyr mentality.

You aim to define a real shia based on what suits your political and ideological agenda. I disagree with a lot of members on this forum politically and ideologically, but I don't claim they are any less shia because they disagree with me (and my opinions are a lot more clued up than yours mind you). Cut out the "quest for truth" bs, you are so transparent that it is nothing short of ridiculous.

That is what I believe you and many other people's problem is.  You see Islam as a political entity as something only in the past, never in the present.  Something historical, never contemporary.  It is unfortunate that some people really have not contemplated the significance of the Islamic revolution and the Islamic Republic, and are so quick to distance themselves from it or spit on it if need be.  By Allah, it is unprecedented in history, making such a unique world awakening of Shias and Islam, a global change in world dynamics where the Shia had absolutely no voice in world affairs for centuries, and yet some of you are so quick to dump it in the trashbin.  By Allah, I am glad there are people in this world who will always carry that banner rather than throwing it away.

I want the truth and objectivity about things, I want to link the lessons of the past with the struggles of today.  We cannot be as great as these men, but we as sure have to try, or else their struggles have been for nothing.  They did it for all for us.  What did they die for?  Please tell me.  What did they die for?

Those who do not learn from history are condemned to repeat it.  

Zahratul_Islam, on 06 February 2010 - 05:58 PM, said:

What you mean to say is that only one side has interpreted Islamic tradition and scripture to back up an agenda under the cover of self righteousness. I have too much respect for the Holy Quran or our Imams to use them to prove Khomenei is the leader of all muslims and whoever disagrees isn't a real shia. You can keep that Islam, thanks.

Does that intense respect for the Qur'an and the Imams also apply to when you discuss fiqh, Shariah, political, criminal, and economic law as well?  Because I don't really see you using that for these matters either.  Everything is all your personal opinion and subjectivity.

Apparently those who actually try to use Islamic scripture for our political, social, and personal matters in Islam are just being self-righteous.  How dare they!

Zahratul_Islam, on 06 February 2010 - 05:58 PM, said:

Again, I really don't want to keep addressing your nonsense as if it has even an ounce of validity.. I just wanted to let you know that I find you very amusing.

Such bitterness and anger.  I thought Western liberalism made people residents of calmness and gave them a peace of mind.

Edited by Mahdaviat, 06 February 2010 - 06:19 PM.

[Nader Zaveri]

shiasoldier786, on 20 January 2010 - 01:29 AM, said:

^^ This vid says it all...

Wow pure blasphemy! So basically Al-Khamenei has been equated to Imaam `Alee ? Ghuluww (exaggerating) to non-ma`sooms is utter stupidity, heck, if you do ghuluww to the ma`sooms, you've been cursed, just to think to non-ma`sooms.

Edited by Nader Zaveri, 11 August 2010 - 12:17 PM.

[DoubleAgent4]

Khamenei is NOT Wali Amr Al-muslimeen. I have a couple of quotes that I will soon post up Inshallah regarding this whole issue.

[zzaveri]

Nader Zaveri, on 11 August 2010 - 12:16 PM, said:

Wow pure blasphemy! So basically Al-Khamenei has been equated to Imaam `Alee ? Ghuluww (exaggerating) to non-ma`sooms is utter stupidity, heck, if you do ghuluww to the ma`sooms, you've been cursed, just to think to non-ma`sooms.

Agreed!.

[shiasoldier786]

Nader Zaveri, on 11 August 2010 - 12:16 PM, said:

Wow pure blasphemy! So basically Al-Khamenei has been equated to Imaam `Alee ? Ghuluww (exaggerating) to non-ma`sooms is utter stupidity, heck, if you do ghuluww to the ma`sooms, you've been cursed, just to think to non-ma`sooms.

Where did you get this idea from man? Are you hearing stuff? Khamenei equated to Imam Ali in the video I posted? Whoaaa, relax, seems like you do have problems in understanding basic english.

[Nader Zaveri]

shiasoldier786, on 11 August 2010 - 12:42 PM, said:

Where did you get this idea from man? Are you hearing stuff? Khamenei equated to Imam Ali in the video I posted? Whoaaa, relax, seems like you do have problems in understanding basic english.

No one has a problem understanding english.

The hadeeth that was narrated by Nasrallaah said that Rasoolillaah (SAWAS) told `Ammaar that if everyone was on one side and Imaam `Alee was on the other side, go with Imaam `Alee . Now, Nasrallaah said, "if all the `ulemaa were on one side and Al-Khamenei was on the other, go with Al-Khamenei". If that isn't equating Al-Khamenei to Imaam `Alee then, I do not know what is.

He might as well say, "Al-Khamenei ma`a al-haqq, wa al-haqq ma'a al-khamenei".

Edited by Nader Zaveri, 11 August 2010 - 12:53 PM.

[DoubleAgent4]

Nader Zaveri, on 11 August 2010 - 12:53 PM, said:

No one has a problem understanding english.

The hadeeth that was narrated by Nasrallaah said that Rasoolillaah (SAWAS) told `Ammaar that if everyone was on one side and Imaam `Alee was on the other side, go with Imaam `Alee . Now, Nasrallaah said, "if all the `ulemaa were on one side and Al-Khamenei was on the other, go with Al-Khamenei". If that isn't equating Al-Khamenei to Imaam `Alee then, I do not know what is.

He might as well say, "Al-Khamenei ma`a al-haqq, wa al-haqq ma'a al-khamenei".

LOL... that's true.

[Maula Dha Mallang]

you know, sometimes you rabid pro khamenei spin doctors really would put abu hurraira to shame with the lengths you will go to and lies you will spout in order to defend your nonsense, cringe worthy, retarded and ignorant stance.

the only sensible question so far has come from brother nocturne. who asked what the *actual* office of "the supreme master" says. and here is a direct quote.

Quote

rom: "Istiftaa" istiftaa@wilayah.org
Subject: About calling "Imam" 9649e
Date: 29 Apr 2002

Question: 1) Is it for a muqallid permitted to call the vali-ul-amr with the title"imam" to train himself for the return of the pure Imam (bay he return soon) and to attach himself to this vali-ul-amr as much as possibel also in respect and love or does he need the special permission of the vali-ul-amr for using this title?
2) If one sees, that the true representnative of the prophetes house (ahl-ul-bait) umong us is called by some individuals not with the respect he should have, as he calls him "agha" or "the ayatollah" and so on, is it permitted to remind them with best words, that this person is as holy that our toungue should use better words for him?
3) If umong more than 60 Million iranians there is no single one to translate every complete speech of true representative of the 12th Imam for the non-farsi speaking muslims into english and they always only were provided with inclomplete summaries, is it than the duty fo the others to learn farsi, because they even want to understand each breath of this great imam?

Answer: 1) There is no objection in calling wali al-amr (the Leader of Muslims) with such a name since he is the Imam of the `ummah (the Islamic nation) and there is no need for permission.
2) There is no objection in calling him with the mentioned calling names as well.
3) If the recognition of the shar`i (Islamically legal) duty of the mukallaf (the obligee) would depend on such an act, it would become a sparing obligation (wajib kifa'i) (i.e. if it would be performed by one or some of the individuals, it would cease to be obligatory upon the others.

http://www.islam-pur...was/further.htm

go on. defend that.  








who wants a bet im about to get reported, the next 10 posts will be PMSy attacks on me and no one will answer? any takers?

[Muhammed Ali]

Nader Zaveri, on 11 August 2010 - 12:53 PM, said:

No one has a problem understanding english.

The hadeeth that was narrated by Nasrallaah said that Rasoolillaah (SAWAS) told `Ammaar that if everyone was on one side and Imaam `Alee was on the other side, go with Imaam `Alee . Now, Nasrallaah said, "if all the `ulemaa were on one side and Al-Khamenei was on the other, go with Al-Khamenei". If that isn't equating Al-Khamenei to Imaam `Alee then, I do not know what is.

He might as well say, "Al-Khamenei ma`a al-haqq, wa al-haqq ma'a al-khamenei".

Not quite. The words of Sayyid Nasrallah do not put Ayatullah Khamenei at the level of infallibility. At most they indicate that the verdict of Ayatullah Khamenei should be followed in matters of dispute.

[zzaveri]

Seriously they might as well start fabricating new hadith to prove Walayat-ul-Faqih to take it completely over the edge like "Ana madinatul ilm, wa Khamenei babuha"

The really sad thing is that some folks would actually adopt this as a slogan.  

[Nader Zaveri]

maula dha mallang, on 11 August 2010 - 01:56 PM, said:

go on. defend that.  

There is no way you can defend that. I remember pointing this exact answer from the same website in a thread. They have totally said "Move over Imaam Mahdee, here comes Al-Khamenei!".

Edited by Nader Zaveri, 11 August 2010 - 02:23 PM.

[Maula Dha Mallang]

can someone please answer whether it is obligatory to see khamenei as WF

[Nader Zaveri]

maula dha mallang, on 11 August 2010 - 02:23 PM, said:

can someone please answer whether it is obligatory to see khamenei as WF

Good Question. I am wondering the same.

And is there any fataawa from our scholars that say it is waajib to follow Al-Khamenei has your Wilaayah Al-Faqeeh.