35 replies to this topic

[Ghorbat]

Salaam

If we were to take our principles from our prophet then shouldn't we also consider their implications and effects applicable in his time? From what I have read so far muta can be justified in a way but it can also be rejected if one wishes to. In the early Islamic periods they didn't have means of contraception such as condom coil pills etc, so it was inevitable to have babies (as it is with poor families in the third world countries in our time) which meant there would be children out of it left with or without mothers/fathers. Isn't it bad to deprive children of their parents?

People also justify muta by its convenience. Their argument is usually for not being financially stable or that not finished study etc. If muta procedure is so simple so is nikah's. Both can be done with recitation of few words. People seem to mistaken nikah with wedding. It appears to them that if they could not afford a wedding thus there is no nikah. WHY? I understand the case with widows and I don't want to criticize them if they were practising muta. What I want to ask is why would a young virgin man or woman would consider muta for sexual convenience when they can do the same thing with nikah. To me that seems more like western relationships where they stay boyfriend/girlfriend for a period of time and when they are "settled" then they consider marriage, and if not  then its not. Also, wouldn't a muslim person not feel ashamed knowing that their sisters/brothers or his past or future wife are sleeping with different people for just satisfying their sexual desires?

If Muta was so sacred then our prophet wouldn't have said to fast to control our sexual desires would he? and that divorce would not be the most hated act before Allah....? Also "lowering gaze".. etc.. it just don't add up for me.

[Janaat]

hey ghorbat

i feel the same way, i dont see a point of muta
and it seems like alot of men LOVE muta and misuse it, as in use for lust and simply satisfaction of sexual desires.
To me, muta seems like a loop hole, like probably alot of people do it to engage in extra-martial affairs and then justify sleeping with another women
by bringing forth the concept of mutah.
I also agree with you, i really want to know why students dont just do nikaah rather then this whole muta thing. Possibly because
they arent sure if they want to get married to this person and want to try a live in relationship first?
This thing just doesnt make sense, it seems more like a western approach, but I guess Allah(swt)
kind of knows what would potentially happen in the future. I mean at uni here in canada, alot of
students have sex on campus/in dorms without any maritial affairs and they sleep with like
a different person everyday. I guess, Allah(swt) knew these people do exist, so he tried
to make things easier for them by bringing in muta, which is for a limited time and a child born in muta
apparantly has the same rights as a child in a regular marriage. And then when a girl, engages in
muta she cant engage in another muta until like 2 cycles of her periods. I have read this and
I'm not entirely sure about it. But still, I mean lets say God introduced this concept to
prevent men from having illegal sex. But lets say, one day a man just cant
control his hormones, and wants to go to a prostitute, like at that very instance or
that time, how can he even find someone to do mutah with??? Like is it
even easy to find someone who will agree with temporary marriage
within the matter of hours??? I've read some people say you
can do muta with a non-muslim, and then again it just doesnt make any sense to me.

[Bonafide Hustler]

Some men might misuse mutah but be careful when you generalize.  I mean islamically, I can do mutah a gazillion times solely and strictly to satisfy my sexual needs.  Or am I reading it wrong? if not, to hell with women who frown upon mutah obsessed men.

[Bonafide Hustler]

Zahratul_Islam, on 05 December 2009 - 01:09 AM, said:

Also, don't expect me to not look down on you, frown, and judge you  

Expect nothing less in return.

[Bonafide Hustler]

Zahratul_Islam, on 05 December 2009 - 01:17 AM, said:

erm.. ok?  

Go to sleep.. typing this late is compromising the quality of your posts (yes that actually IS possible)

To think you ever thought my posts were even ever remotely quality material.  I am so flattered. Seriously.

[avjar7]

Some people can't get permanently married (students studying away from home, no job, no house, maybe are in a foreign country and can't legally get married) and have a hard time staying away from sin, so having a mut'ah with someone is a legal way to fulfill desire.  Even if it's only for a day, you get to know the person, so you are always on a basis to permanently marry in the future, and your desire is fulfilled, so you can feel better and lower your gaze and focus on other things rather than thinking about your desire.  Of course people would rather be in loving, stable relationships.

[Hamzas]

avjar7, on 05 December 2009 - 02:03 AM, said:

Some people can't get permanently married (students studying away from home, no job, no house, maybe are in a foreign country and can't legally get married) and have a hard time staying away from sin, so having a mut'ah with someone is a legal way to fulfill desire.  Even if it's only for a day, you get to know the person, so you are always on a basis to permanently marry in the future, and your desire is fulfilled, so you can feel better and lower your gaze and focus on other things rather than thinking about your desire.  Of course people would rather be in loving, stable relationships.

Because you can have all the fun but not the hassle of a wife

[Shay]

avjar7, on 05 December 2009 - 02:03 AM, said:

Some people can't get permanently married (students studying away from home, no job, no house, maybe are in a foreign country and can't legally get married) and have a hard time staying away from sin, so having a mut'ah with someone is a legal way to fulfill desire.  Even if it's only for a day, you get to know the person, so you are always on a basis to permanently marry in the future, and your desire is fulfilled, so you can feel better and lower your gaze and focus on other things rather than thinking about your desire.  Of course people would rather be in loving, stable relationships.

But ummm you can still be properlyt married while being a student, not having a job etc?

On the flip side, isnt one of the conditions of the marriage is the ability to be financially stable enough to support a child that may be born out of the union? Cant really do that jobless.

[Maryaam]

Shay, on 28 December 2009 - 01:09 PM, said:

But ummm you can still be properlyt married while being a student, not having a job etc?

On the flip side, isnt one of the conditions of the marriage is the ability to be financially stable enough to support a child that may be born out of the union? Cant really do that jobless.

One would think so. But, too often, I dont think people think of these possibilities when they are blinded by the need for immediate gratification and are unable to see beyond the end of their ...ummm......nose.

[AlgerianShia]

Maryaam, on 28 December 2009 - 02:06 PM, said:

One would think so. But, too often, I dont think people think of these possibilities when they are blinded by the need for immediate gratification and are unable to see beyond the end of their ...ummm......nose.

mutah: no expencive maher, no expencive wedding, no expencive ring, no expencive etc, immediate "nose"

marriage: broke+ in debt + wait till after wedding to "nose".

i wonderrrr i wonderrrr which do i perfer hmmmmmmmm this is a tough one...

Edited by AlgerianShia, 28 December 2009 - 03:15 PM.

[Batool]

Hmmmm, is muta ALWAYS sexual? I've spoken to people, even on  this board  who have had non sexual mutas. Some (infact most of the people that have done muta that I have known) do muta to potential permanent marriage partners, in order to get to know one another and fill the gap between agreeing to marry and getting married. Obviously people could have nikkah and still get to know one another before living together but I think the thinking is that its better to walk away from someone you've had a non sexual  muta with rather than a non consumated nikkah followed by divorce (if you decide you don't actually like one another).
Another reason some people have non sexual mutas is if they need to spend time alone for whatever reason withe opposite sex, reasons being things like spending alot of  time studying together, or sharing accomodation.
In both cases muta could be avoided, as you don't have to have a muta to get to know your potential spouse, just keep your meetings and interactions Islamic, and in the second case maybe avoid those cases where you need to be alone with someone, but I guess people may be thinking why avoid these things if muta gives another solution to those issues.
I'm just making these points because people almost always assume that muta is for one thing and one thing only.

[Maryaam]

AlgerianShia, on 28 December 2009 - 03:11 PM, said:

mutah: no expencive maher, no expencive wedding, no expencive ring, no expencive etc, immediate "nose"

marriage: broke+ in debt + wait till after wedding to "nose".

i wonderrrr i wonderrrr which do i perfer hmmmmmmmm this is a tough one...

I understand the attraction to avoid unnecessary expense.

But..... I dont think I was clear about what I meant - I meant that you could end up with a great expense if you act on immediate desire only without thinking it through.... mutah could be a life long financial (which is what you want to avoid) committment to a child and not just a one night stand.

And also....
You are making an assumption that you will get away with a cheap mehr.... some women will demand a lot....but you could definitely shop around and find something in your price range.......

Edited by Maryaam, 28 December 2009 - 03:52 PM.

[Maryaam]

Batool, on 28 December 2009 - 03:17 PM, said:

I'm just making these points because people almost always assume that muta is for one thing and one thing only.

I agree.  

I think there is probably more non-sexual mutah (getting to know potential perma-spouse) in real life, but it doesnt seem to be something that is a something sought after by the cyber men demanding  mutah (on this forum) - it is just the opposite - married or no.

i would be interested in hearing from someone (male or female) who have done non-sex mutah - their experience and if it was worthwhile for them.

[Bonafide Hustler]

My cousins have done non sex mutah, its done in place of an engagement, there is a condition put on it for no physical contact, but it allows them to chill with each other before permanent marriage and get to know each other quite well.

[Maryaam]

Bonafide Hustler, on 28 December 2009 - 04:01 PM, said:

My cousins have done non sex mutah, its done in place of an engagement, there is a condition put on it for no physical contact, but it allows them to chill with each other before permanent marriage and get to know each other quite well.

So you think it is a good idea?  Were there any drawbaclks?  Did any not go forward with the nika?

[Qa'im]

Maryaam, on 28 December 2009 - 03:58 PM, said:

I agree.  

I think there is probably more non-sexual mutah (getting to know potential perma-spouse) in real life, but it doesnt seem to be something that is a something sought after by the cyber men demanding  mutah (on this forum) - it is just the opposite - married or no.

i would be interested in hearing from someone (male or female) who have done non-sex mutah - their experience and if it was worthwhile for them.

Yes, this is practiced a lot in the Arab Shi'i community, put in place instead of engagement to get to know the future spouse and leave the intercourse until permanent marriage.

[Maryaam]

Qa, on 28 December 2009 - 04:06 PM, said:

Yes, this is practiced a lot in the Arab Shi'i community, put in place instead of engagement to get to know the future spouse and leave the intercourse until permanent marriage.

wasalam
It must be successful then.

[Bonafide Hustler]

Maryaam, on 28 December 2009 - 04:04 PM, said:

So you think it is a good idea?  Were there any drawbaclks?  Did any not go forward with the nika?

Well I think it is yeah, since there is no  physical contact and if they were to do a proper permanent nikkah just to get to know each other, they would have to divorce if things didnt work out.  With mutah there is no divorce and within the conditions set, the couple can get to know each other without physical contact till their permanent union.  I am Pakistani so most from our community don't even know the meaning of the term let alone engage in the practice.  Its just that I have a few cousins who have grown up here and are from religious backgrounds that chose to exercise this option right before marriage and it worked well for them.

[Hussian]

Zahratul_Islam, on 05 December 2009 - 12:58 AM, said:

Why temporarily fulfill your sexual pleasures without any implications or serious responsibilities with someone you want to have sex with (but perhaps not see again ever after ) when you could just seriously commit yourself forever to a girl .

I wonder what could possibly motivate a man to do such a thing.. its mind boggling really.. I just cant put my finger on it..

Oh yes we are forgetting that critical part about them being irresponsible, lustful, and did I mention lustful? Thought I had..

With all due respect, are you calling people who do mutah irresponsible?

Edited by Hussian, 28 December 2009 - 05:03 PM.

[AlgerianShia]

Maryaam, on 28 December 2009 - 03:52 PM, said:

You are making an assumption that you will get away with a cheap mehr.... some women will demand a lot....but you could definitely shop around and find something in your price range.......

i dont like shopping....

Edited by AlgerianShia, 07 January 2010 - 07:35 PM.

[muhammed_1428]

I think the original post emphasised the fact that a Nikah isn't a wedding - there isn't a whole bunch of cultural celebrations one must partake in when doing a Nikah. Its a simple recital of words to your spouse, in the presence of witnesses under the conduction of an Imam, khalas. Yes there is a mahr etc, but with Nikah there's the months of preparation, invitations, venue, food, honeymoon, etc - the point of a Nikah is just to be Islamically married to your spouse, the marriage may very wel be consummated (with a walimah following as a Sunnah) although cultural traditions place restriction on this and the process lasts up to 6 months.

Some families choose to do Nikah if both sides believe there is a very good chance the couple will get along, but still place restrictions (for traditional purposes) on things like consummation etc. The Islamic matrimony gives the couple a chance to go on dates etc and get to know each other properly.

Then again - whats to stop them from consummating the marriage behind their parents' back? I mean if they're Islamically to do so under the rules of Nikah then why should the only reason be to stop them is that their parents wouldn't approve due to tradition? Even though Islamically, since they would've conducted a Nikah, its completely halal.

So I guess this is where mut3a can come in - in order to pick and choose certain conditions, one of which may very well that no consummation of the marriage is to take place, allowing the couple the freedom to get to know each other and honour their parents' requests that they do not get up to anything - and what would make them feel better about it is that this would now e a religous obligation since it was stipulated in a religous contract) rather than some traditional one that belong to their culture from 'back home'.

Then again - lets get real - we're all human. How many dates can you go out on with the opposite sex without getting up to absolutely anything whatsoever? When Bonafide Hustler mention his cousins having a non sex mut3a, and just chilling with each other, what does this involve? Going out on dates? Chilling at each other's houses with parents present? Did they never put themselves in a position where they may hug, or kiss, or hold hands? Was any of this allowed according to the mut3a?

Personally, I don't see the need for mut3a in a regular matrimony, where there are no special cases or circumstances. I'm quite confident that meetings may take place, and that perhaps the couple may even meet and get to know each other properly (on the phone or online) with proper permission (from the woman's father especially) by the potential husband. I reckon cultural traditions is what gets in the way of having a proper Islamic marriage (hence why some get uppity when they're asked why not do a simple nikah instead of mut3a), people seem to think mut3a is the new simpler nikah lol.