304 replies to this topic

[Orion]

Brother Fakhruddin,

I have a few questions. So let me start with the first one.

-Is it true that Dawoodi Bohra followers are not allowed to read the translation of Quran, even if they dont understand Arabic?

WS

[Fakhruddin]

Orion, on 05 October 2009 - 11:14 AM, said:

Brother Fakhruddin,

I have a few questions. So let me start with the first one.

-Is it true that Dawoodi Bohra followers are not allowed to read the translation of Quran, even if they dont understand Arabic?

WS

Salam
Brother Orion,
I hope you understand, that i am not a scholar in religious study and don't have good writing skills. I will try to give reply to best of my knowledge. Inshallah. Any mistake or error, I seek forgiveness from Allah (SWT).

Ans: It is true that normal Bohra followers are told not to read the translated version of Quran-ul-Hakim. The main reasons are.
1. Arabic language is superior to all the languages and it is not possible to translate superior language to lower language with out losing its exact meaning.
2. Rasullah (SWT) at Gadeer-e-Khum announced, " I leave behind with you two things One Holy Quran and Alh-e-bait" Any one who follows them will be successful. Holy Quran is Sammit ( Non-Speaking) whereas Alhe-Bait is Natik (Speaking). That means Rasullah (SWT) left behind speaking and non-speaking quran.
Reason for Holy Quran (Non-speaking) to be applicable in all ages is that there has to be a speaking quran always along with it which are the Imams (s.a) in the line of Imam Hussain (s.a).
It is true that Holy quran has been in simple language, but it has a deeper and hidden meanings, which a Speaking Quran (Imam) or his representative(Dai) can interpret it. So a bohras are encourage not to read translated quran and try to understand them self and interpret it wrongly, but join Bohra sabaqs( Sermons) or schools such as MSB or Jameaya tus saifeeyah Surat or pakistan and to understand true precious words and meanings of Glorious Quran. In such schools the teachers are those who have been tested by Syedna himself.
3. I hope you must be aware, that many wrongdoings are happening in the world due to wrong translation or interpretation by people who think they have authority. But i question what is the authenticity of their authority, who has appointed them to interpret the Holy quran.
4. Even average bohri may not know arabic, but i bet majority of Bohra are aware the teachings of quran, There is special institute in Surat call Madah al Quran (http://mahadalquran.com/) where people from all the world come to learn and hifz quran, now a days majority of bohri kids knows volumes 28/29/30 by heart. Insahallah i will start hifz too.
5. Bohra's are rich in arabic poetry and volumes of arabic composes on Madeh, naat, Qasida, Marasia published every year is uncomparable. ( http://www.sautuliman.com/index.php )

So basically to interpret and understand the quran, Rasullah(swt) had joined Speaking quran (Alhe-e-bait) with Holy Quran, and thats why a person will be successful only if he follows both together. Buy following Holy quran and not following Alhe-e-bait he/she will be never be successful (Evident in the world). So Imam after Imam continued to guide Ummah and interpret quran, until 21st Imam went in to seclusion and appointed 1st Dai Syedna Zoeb in Yemen to hold his office,till the day of Judgement. So now Dai is the sole authority on interpretation of quran.

One day a person asked 51st Dai Syedna Taher Saifuddin, that when Rasullah (SWT) conquered Mecca, he told Maula Ali(s.a) to climb on to Kabba and destroy all the idols. Kabba doors are at a height and Maula Ali had nothing to climb on. seeing it Rasullah (swt) said come brother use my shoulder to climb and maula ali did the same.
A person asked syedna Taher saifuddin, doesn't it amount to disrespect of Rasullah (swt).
Sydena with great vigour said, No book can be kept on Holy Quran. Only a Quran be kept on Quran. Rasullah(swt)taught us quran and Maula Ali implemented it. Both are a true speaking quran. So wheres the disrespect.
Syedna went further and said, after when Maula Ali decide to come down from Kabba, he jumped. Maula Ali saw Rasullah (swt) smiling and he inquire. He said you went up on Messenger of Quran and you landed on wings of Jibreel ( deliverer of Quran).
Thank you
Alhamdollilah

[Orion]

Thanks for your reply.

-Is it true that Female Genital Mutilation (female circumcision) is widely practiced among Bohras?

WS

[Maula Dha Mallang]

respected brother farrukhdeen, two questions:

- what are the bohra views on azadari?
- is it true you reject the imams after imam jafar sadiq?

[Fakhruddin]

Orion, on 06 October 2009 - 03:25 AM, said:

Thanks for your reply.

-Is it true that Female Genital Mutilation (female circumcision) is widely practiced among Bohras?

WS

May i know what your name is and what you follow

[Fakhruddin]

maula dha mallang, on 06 October 2009 - 03:47 AM, said:

respected brother farrukhdeen, two questions:

- what are the bohra views on azadari?
- is it true you reject the imams after imam jafar sadiq?

For your answer to Azadari. Download at this link

listen and you will understand.
It is written by 51st Dai Syedna Taher Saifuddin.
Every bohri after every Farz Salaat does Matam of Imam Hussain and Imam Ali, with Marasia in recitation.

We don't reject Imam after imam Jafar Sadiq. We follow Imam Ismail, following is the list
Imams of Dawoodi Bohra

   1. Hasan ibn Ali - 625-670 (Imam - 660-670)
   2. Husain ibn Ali - 626-680 (Imam -670-680 )
   3. Ali ibn Husain -659-712 (Imam-680-712)
   4. Mohd. ul Bakir ibn Ali -676-743 (Imam 712-743)
   5. Jafer us Sadiq ibn Mohd ul Bakir 702-765 (Imam- 743-765)
   6. Ismail ibn Jafer 719/722-775 (Imam 765-775)
   7. Mohammad ibn Ismail 740-813 (Imam 775-813)
   8. Abdullah ibn Mohammad (Ahmed al wafi)766-829 (Imam 813-829)
   9. Ahmed ibn Abdullah (Mohammad al taqi)790‐840 (Imam 829‐840)
  10. Husain ibn Ahmed (Abdullah) (Imam 840‐909)
  11. Abdullah Al Mehdi ibn Husain (Abū Muḥammad ˤAbdu l-Lāh (ˤUbaydu l-Lāh) al-Mahdī bi'llāh) (909-934)
  12. Mohammed ul Qaim ibn Abdullah (Abū l-Qāsim Muḥammad al-Qā'im bi-Amr Allāh) (934-946)
  13. Ismail Al Mansoor ibn Mohammed(Abū Ṭāhir Ismā'il al-Manṣūr bi-llāh )(946-953)
  14. Maad‐nil Muiz ibn Ismail Al Mansoor(Abū Tamīm Ma'add al-Mu'izz li-Dīn Allāh )(953-975)
  15. Nizare nil Aziz ibn Moad‐al Moiz (Abū Manṣūr Nizār al-'Azīz bi-llāh )(975-996)
  16. Husainil Hakim ibn Nizare‐al Aziz (Abū 'Alī al-Manṣūr al-Ḥākim bi-Amr Allāh) (996-1021)
  17. Ali‐al Zahir ibn Husain‐al Hakim (Abū'l-Ḥasan 'Alī al-Ẓāhir li-I'zāz Dīn Allāh) (1021-1036)
  18. Maad‐al Mustansir ibn Ali ai Zahir(Abū Tamīm Ma'add al-Mustanṣir bi-llāh )(1036‐1094)
  19. Ahmed al Mustali ibn Maadenil Mustansir (al-Musta'lī bi-llāh )(1094‐1101)
  20. Mansuril Amir ibn Ahmed Al mustai( al-Āmir bi-Aḥkām Allāh) (1101-1130)
  21. Tayyeb ibn Aamir

Imam 1 to 7 are known to all Islam, Imam 11 to 21 are the same Imam which are narrated in the history of Fatimid.

Edited by Fakhruddin, 06 October 2009 - 04:55 AM.

[shoelace]

jazakallah brother fakhruddin

[Maula Dha Mallang]

brother in the book "kitaab ul irshad" by sheikh mufeed, he lists according to some of the best and reliable hadiths available why the nass went to imam musa kazim , not hazrat ismail (who imam jafar sadiq loved dearly), why do ismailis reject these solid hadiths? and on what grounds?

[Fakhruddin]

maula dha mallang, on 06 October 2009 - 04:53 AM, said:

brother in the book "kitaab ul irshad" by sheikh mufeed, he lists according to some of the best and reliable hadiths available why the nass went to imam musa kazim , not hazrat ismail (who imam jafar sadiq loved dearly), why do ismailis reject these solid hadiths? and on what grounds?

I don't know much about the details, but i can tell you We can prove with much solid proof and a guarantee that Nass went to Imam Ismail.
I will ask one of our amils and revert to you.

[Maula Dha Mallang]

Fakhruddin, on 06 October 2009 - 05:22 AM, said:

I don't know much about the details, but i can tell you We can prove with much solid proof and a guarantee that Nass went to Imam Ismail.
I will ask one of our amils and revert to you.

ok brother appreciated. when i get home tonight ill scan the relevant parts of the book for you as well, i would like to see proofs that nass went to hazrat ismail....the akhbar are very clear and unanimous it went to imam musa kazim , what can you use to refute them?

[AbdullaQ]

Never knew about this before. Very informative thread, I will keep observing. May Allah guide us all onto his straight path.

[Marbles]

Fakhruddin, on 06 October 2009 - 04:48 AM, said:

For your answer to Azadari. Download at this link

listen and you will understand.
It is written by 51st Dai Syedna Taher Saifuddin.
Every bohri after every Farz Salaat does Matam of Imam Hussain and Imam Ali, with Marasia in recitation.

We don't reject Imam after imam Jafar Sadiq. We follow Imam Ismail, following is the list
Imams of Dawoodi Bohra

   1. Hasan ibn Ali - 625-670 (Imam - 660-670)
   2. Husain ibn Ali - 626-680 (Imam -670-680 )
   3. Ali ibn Husain -659-712 (Imam-680-712)
   4. Mohd. ul Bakir ibn Ali -676-743 (Imam 712-743)
   5. Jafer us Sadiq ibn Mohd ul Bakir 702-765 (Imam- 743-765)
   6. Ismail ibn Jafer 719/722-775 (Imam 765-775)
   7. Mohammad ibn Ismail 740-813 (Imam 775-813)
   8. Abdullah ibn Mohammad (Ahmed al wafi)766-829 (Imam 813-829)
   9. Ahmed ibn Abdullah (Mohammad al taqi)790‐840 (Imam 829‐840)
  10. Husain ibn Ahmed (Abdullah) (Imam 840‐909)
  11. Abdullah Al Mehdi ibn Husain (Abū Muḥammad ˤAbdu l-Lāh (ˤUbaydu l-Lāh) al-Mahdī bi'llāh) (909-934)
  12. Mohammed ul Qaim ibn Abdullah (Abū l-Qāsim Muḥammad al-Qā'im bi-Amr Allāh) (934-946)
  13. Ismail Al Mansoor ibn Mohammed(Abū Ṭāhir Ismā'il al-Manṣūr bi-llāh )(946-953)
  14. Maad‐nil Muiz ibn Ismail Al Mansoor(Abū Tamīm Ma'add al-Mu'izz li-Dīn Allāh )(953-975)
  15. Nizare nil Aziz ibn Moad‐al Moiz (Abū Manṣūr Nizār al-'Azīz bi-llāh )(975-996)
  16. Husainil Hakim ibn Nizare‐al Aziz (Abū 'Alī al-Manṣūr al-Ḥākim bi-Amr Allāh) (996-1021)
  17. Ali‐al Zahir ibn Husain‐al Hakim (Abū'l-Ḥasan 'Alī al-Ẓāhir li-I'zāz Dīn Allāh) (1021-1036)
  18. Maad‐al Mustansir ibn Ali ai Zahir(Abū Tamīm Ma'add al-Mustanṣir bi-llāh )(1036‐1094)
  19. Ahmed al Mustali ibn Maadenil Mustansir (al-Musta'lī bi-llāh )(1094‐1101)
  20. Mansuril Amir ibn Ahmed Al mustai( al-Āmir bi-Aḥkām Allāh) (1101-1130)
  21. Tayyeb ibn Aamir

Imam 1 to 7 are known to all Islam, Imam 11 to 21 are the same Imam which are narrated in the history of Fatimid.

Good thread. I have a few questions.

1) Is Tayyeb ibn Aamir, the 21st Imam in the list, the same you regard as Imam Mahdi in occultation?

2) You number Imam Hassan bin Ali as 1. Should he not come at 2nd with Imam Ali as 1st?

3) All Shia sects, except Zaidi Shias, agree on Imams up till Imam Jafar Sadiq. I want to know where do you part ways with Aga Khani/Nizari Ismai'lis on the matter of Imamate. As it is, Aga Khani Ismai'lis believe that they have physically present, infallible Imam in their midst.

4) Is Dai-e-mutlaq infallible like Imams or can he sin?

Thanks

[Fakhruddin]

maula dha mallang, on 06 October 2009 - 05:32 AM, said:

ok brother appreciated. when i get home tonight ill scan the relevant parts of the book for you as well, i would like to see proofs that nass went to hazrat ismail....the akhbar are very clear and unanimous it went to imam musa kazim , what can you use to refute them?

Brother have you downloaded the link of marasia i gave you..

[Maula Dha Mallang]

Fakhruddin, on 06 October 2009 - 07:05 AM, said:

Brother have you downloaded the link of marasia i gave you..

no brother, theres no sound on my work pc (i dont bring in earphones), ill download it tonight inshallah

[Fakhruddin]

Marbles, on 06 October 2009 - 06:12 AM, said:

Good thread. I have a few questions.

1) Is Tayyeb ibn Aamir, the 21st Imam in the list, the same you regard as Imam Mahdi in occultation?

2) You number Imam Hassan bin Ali as 1. Should he not come at 2nd with Imam Ali as 1st?

3) All Shia sects, except Zaidi Shias, agree on Imams up till Imam Jafar Sadiq. I want to know where do you part ways with Aga Khani/Nizari Ismai'lis on the matter of Imamate. As it is, Aga Khani Ismai'lis believe that they have physically present, infallible Imam in their midst.

4) Is Dai-e-mutlaq infallible like Imams or can he sin?

Thanks

Answering you.
1. Yes Tayyeb ibn Aamir, the 21st Imam went in to occultation, but its is not Tayyeb ibn Amir himself which is present on the face of earth today, it is his progency which is the Imam of our time which is in seclusion, son after son the chain has continuoued.But we considered our current Imam as Imam Tayyeb ibn Tayyeb(s.a).
After Imam Ismail, Imam Mohammed went into seclusion, 8. Abdullah ibn Mohammad (Ahmed al wafi)766-829 (Imam 813-829)
9. Ahmed ibn Abdullah (Mohammad al taqi)790‐840 (Imam 829‐840)10. Husain ibn Ahmed (Abdullah) (Imam 840‐909)also remained in seclusion, after which 11. Imam Mehdi zuhoored in Maghreb as per prophecy of Rasullah (s.a), that after 300 years sun will rise in Maghreb, and established Fatimid Empire.

2. Imam Ali is the Wasi and Wali of Mohammed Rasullah (s.a)where as Imam Hassan bin Ali is only the Imam.

3. We differ from Nizari from Imam Ahmed al Mustali ibn Maadenil Mustansir (al-Musta'lī bi-llāh )(1094‐1101)
they followed Nizar. Thats why we called Shia Ismaili Mustali Dawoodi Bohra muslim.
4. I wouldn't answer, because i can't explain my thaughts in english.

[Maula Dha Mallang]

Fakhruddin, on 06 October 2009 - 07:24 AM, said:

1. Yes Tayyeb ibn Aamir, the 21st Imam went in to occultation, but its is not Tayyeb ibn Amir himself which is present on the face of earth today, it is his progency which is the Imam of our time which is in seclusion, son after son the chain has continuoued.But we considered our current Imam as Imam Tayyeb ibn Tayyeb(s.a).
After Imam Ismail, Imam Mohammed went into seclusion, 8. Abdullah ibn Mohammad (Ahmed al wafi)766-829 (Imam 813-829)

brother please can you provide evidence for this statement? which hadith are you relying on?

[macisaac]

Here's some quick, random questions.

How do you explain the fact that `Ubaydullah "al-Mahdi" had claimed he was a descendant of `Abdullah b. Ja`far, not of Isma`il b. Ja`far?

How about the about-face (one of many) where the da`wa had originally claimed that Muhammad b. Isma`il was the Qa'im in ghayba, to then claiming that it was all a ruse, and that in fact one of the da`is himself was the Imam, splitting the movement in two between those upholding the original doctrine, and those following the new?

What about the fact that Nizar had been appointed by his father al-Mustansir as the imam, but then the child Musta`li was put on the throne (his older brother imprisoned) by al-Afdal (Sunni wasn't he) with the latter essentially running the show?

The possible insanity of al-Hakim, how do you explain that?

Why if Qadi Nu`man had access to an infallible imam, why then did he have to rely on Imami and Zaydi collections of hadiths to compile Da`aim al-Islam, and why no hadiths in that past Imam Sadiq ?

As you don't know who your imam is now, how do you fulfill the necessity of knowing the Imam of ones time, lest one die the death of Jahiliyya?

As to the infallibility issue, interesting dodge.  Yes, MdM, they're da`i mutlaq started claiming `ismat sometime in the 1800s.

[Fakhruddin]

maula dha mallang, on 06 October 2009 - 07:28 AM, said:

brother please can you provide evidence for this statement? which hadith are you relying on?

Imam Ismail (SA)

Allah commanded Rasulullah (SAW) to give the message that Ali ibn Abi Talib (SA) is the wali of Allah, the warrior of Islam, and the rightful successor and wasi of Mohammed (SAW). Rasulullah (SAW) performed nass on Ali ibn Abi Talib (SA) and declared him Amir ul Mumineen. He in turn performed nass on his son Imam Hasan (SA). The Imamate was transferred from him to his brother, Imam Husain(SA), and henceforth passed on from father to son. The seat of the Imamate is never empty.

Imam Jafar us Sadiq (SA), the fifth Imam, performed nass on his son Imam Ismail (SA), and informed his followers of the fact. During the time of Imam Sadiq (SA), Abu-d- Dawaniq persecuted the descendants of Amir ul Mumineen (SA) for fear of losing public support in favor of Imam Sadiq (SA). Deceptive and sly, he wrote to Imam Jafar us Sadiq (SA) extending warm hospitalities, and invited Imam Sadiq (SA) to send Imam Ismail (SA) to stay at his palace. Imam Jafar us Sadiq (SA), aware of the deceitful nature of Abu-d-Dawaniq, rather than sending his heir Imam Ismail (SA) into the clutches of the tyrant, journeyed to Iraq.

Upon Imam Sadiq’s (SA) return to Hijaz, he secluded his son Imam Ismail (SA) from the public eye for nearly a year and four months. Imam Ismail (SA) passed away in seclusion. Before passing away, Imam Ismail (SA) performed nass on his son Imam Mohammed (SA).

Imam Sadiq (SA), at the funeral verified that it was in fact Imam Ismail (SA), who had died by revealing the Imam’s face, and asked the public to testify whether or not it was his son, at which point they all attested to the fact that it was. Imam Ismail’s (SA) qabar mubarak is in Jannat ul Baqee, Al Medina.

History records that Imam Ismail (SA), after his death appeared in the city of Basara. A follower of Aimmat Tahereen (SA) saw the Imam (SA) and recognized him. He asked the Imam to cure him by placing his hand on his back, upon which the Imam did, and the man was cured. News of the miracle spread throughout Basara, and word spread that Imam Ismail (SA) was still alive. When the news reached the ears of Abu-d-Dawaniq, he called Imam Jafar us Sadiq (SA) and demanded an explanation. Imam Sadiq (SA) recounted the testimonies of the people who had been present at the funeral, by which he verified that he had in fact buried his son, Imam Ismail (SA).

The line of Imamate is never broken and has continued through Imam Mohammed bin Ismail (SA) after his father.

Brother I could only provide this as it is avaliable on net, otherwise i am not a student of Jameaa tus Saifiyah India in Surat, where experts are. Inshallah if happen to speak one of the amils i will get the scanned copy of the book.

But In bohra the branches of knowledge are Zahir books which need to be learned first and implemented and then Haqiqaat and tawil books which holds the secrets of creation and other stuff. But every bohra is under oath to not to publish haqiqaat and tawil books to unlearned person.

At one instance. During the time of Aurangzeb. Most cruel Mughal ruler, oppressed bohras in gujarat. Bohras where mascaraed and killed. We call Ahmedabad as small Karbala because of Huge massacre and shaheeds by the hands of Mughals. Vazir of Aurangzeb was a staunch enemy of 32nd Dai Syedna Qutubkhan Qutubuddin Shaheed. Rasullah (s.a) had prophesied that after 1000 years in the land of Hind, Our beloved will be shaheed as imam Hussain (s.a).
32nd Dai, was behead by Aurangezeb in sajjad to Allah. When they looted the syedna library, they came across such books, they had never heard or read off. One such book was Akle-Awaal. It is said that when vazir read that book he went mad.
So brother bear patience for my reply.

[macisaac]

Orion, on 06 October 2009 - 08:51 AM, said:

I am called Orion and I follow Shia Athna Ashari faith. Now could you please answer my question:

-Is it true that Female Genital Mutilation (female circumcision) is widely practiced among Bohras?

WS

You should refrain from this type of expression, as it is imitating what the kuffar say for something that is allowed in our religion:

http://www.tashayyu....le-circumcision

[macisaac]

Fakhruddin, on 06 October 2009 - 08:05 AM, said:

Imam Jafar us Sadiq (SA), the fifth Imam, performed nass on his son Imam Ismail (SA), and informed his followers of the fact.

Show us a single hadith that testifies to this.  Or, I'll save you the trouble: there are none.  Rather we see the nass went to his son, Imam Musa al-Kazhim .  Which of the many companions of Imam Sadiq believed in the imamate of Isma`il?  Out of the many prominent names we find amongst his disciples, which of them upheld this view?  Zurara, Muhammad b. Muslim, Aban b. Taghlib, Abu Basir al-Muradi, Hisham b. Salim, Hisham b. al-Hakam, `Abdullah b. Sinan, Mu`awiya b. `Ammar, and so forth.  Who can you point to any of such companions that believed this?  Rather, the ones we see upholding such a proto-Isma`ili view were the mal`un Khattabi sect.

Quote

The line of Imamate is never broken and has continued through Imam Mohammed bin Ismail (SA) after his father.

Please address the questions I asked above regarding your claims of an "unbroken line".

Quote

Brother I could only provide this as it is avaliable on net, otherwise i am not a student of Jameaa tus Saifiyah India in Surat, where experts are. Inshallah if happen to speak one of the amils i will get the scanned copy of the book.

But In bohra the branches of knowledge are Zahir books which need to be learned first and implemented and then Haqiqaat and tawil books which holds the secrets of creation and other stuff. But every bohra is under oath to not to publish haqiqaat and tawil books to unlearned person.

In other words, you're not allowed to read about your religion except for the very basic level stuff that the da`i might allow you (if that).  This is typical of the Bohris, where only the ruling members of the da`wa, largely composed of the da`i's own family, are allowed to read about your religion and its teachings, keeping not only us outsiders away from it, but even most of the Bohris themselves who remain in a state of forced ignorance about their deen.  Does this sound like Islam to you?

[Orion]

macisaac, on 06 October 2009 - 09:42 AM, said:

You should refrain from this type of expression, as it is imitating what the kuffar say for something that is allowed in our religion:

Ok, I will rephrase my question.

But could you cite any leading Marja who has allowed this. Thanks.

Edited by Orion, 06 October 2009 - 11:14 AM.

[Orion]

Fakhruddin, on 06 October 2009 - 04:37 AM, said:

May i know what your name is and what you follow

I am called Orion and I follow Shia Athna Ashari faith. Now could you please answer my question:

-Is it true that female circumcision is widely practiced among Bohras?

WS

[shoelace]

brothers lemme clear some thing...bro fakhruddin might not be able to answer all the question or bring refrences coz most of dawoodi bohra books are just with the royal family of syednaa sahaab and common bohra has limited excess to this information.

and to get excess to this information is little bit complicated...bohra's really need to print more books and has to give more excess to information to common people...i dont say they dont have proof for there claims but its not in reach of normal people except u go and study in jamea tus safiya (arabic UNI in INDIA)

[real0019]

Fakhruddin, on 06 October 2009 - 05:22 AM, said:

I don't know much about the details, but i can tell you We can prove with much solid proof and a guarantee that Nass went to Imam Ismail.
I will ask one of our amils and revert to you.

BTW, the claims of a few pro-Isma'ili orientalists do not count.

In other words, bring forward this 'solid proof' from the actual historical sources (i.e. ahadith).

[Orion]

shoelace, on 06 October 2009 - 12:52 PM, said:

brothers lemme clear some thing...bro fakhruddin might not be able to answer all the question or bring refrences coz most of dawoodi bohra books are just with the royal family of syednaa sahaab and common bohra has limited excess to this information.

and to get excess to this information is little bit complicated...bohra's really need to print more books and has to give more excess to information to common people...i dont say they dont have proof for there claims but its not in reach of normal people except u go and study in jamea tus safiya (arabic UNI in INDIA)

Questions I have asked so far have a simple "yes" or "no" answer.
I have not  asked for references.