38 replies to this topic

[Awaiting_for_the12th]

Salam o Alikum,
i know this will sound really dumb, but from what i knew that smoking weed and its derivatives is not allowed in Islam... but last night i was talking to a shia brother who said that there is nothing wrong with it since it all comes under smoking.. so if kindly any brother can help me... i tried to look through different marja websites but cant find it and the search feature for shiachat is not working for me... i appreaciate it..
salams

[AlgerianShia]

nything that intoxicates ur mind is haram, end of story (smoek, liquid, or chocking urself til u get high)

[yassameen]

what i know : anything that cause alter in awarness is haram -except if it was taken as medicine-

as for smoking : if you think it could cause a damage to your health then it is haram

morally im sure it is not adviced but you must consult your marji'e regarding weed though i dont know of one that said it is ok  or left it to your own judgemnt

and ask also your friend or brother -if you contact him again- about his marji'e fatwa about it < if he is sure it is ok or he just make that assumption

[learniilm]

rballer, on 15 September 2009 - 04:50 PM, said:

Salam o Alikum,
i know this will sound really dumb, but from what i knew that smoking weed and its derivatives is not allowed in Islam... but last night i was talking to a shia brother who said that there is nothing wrong with it since it all comes under smoking.. so if kindly any brother can help me... i tried to look through different marja websites but cant find it and the search feature for shiachat is not working for me... i appreaciate it..
salams

BRO IT IS HARAAM! AND STRICTLY HARAAM. It does not fall under smoking as smoking is tobacco and weed/skunk/ganja are drugs.....Keep away from all this.!!

[Researcher]

'Intoxicant' means 'poison'.

Ganja, weed, bhang is not an intoxicant. Alcohol will kill you if enough of it (a very small amount) reaches your brain. Cannabis will not. There is no authority for the hypothesis that anything that alters your mind is haram. Many substances drunk, eaten or inhaled are mildly psychoactive. I'm not encouraging people to go and smoke weed, but if there's nothing in all the laws of Islam that single it out and define it specifically as an 'intoxicant' (which, medically, it's not) then you can't say it's haram.

[Irishman]

Researcher, on 21 September 2009 - 11:50 AM, said:

'Intoxicant' means 'poison'.

Ganja, weed, bhang is not an intoxicant. Alcohol will kill you if enough of it (a very small amount) reaches your brain. Cannabis will not. There is no authority for the hypothesis that anything that alters your mind is haram. Many substances drunk, eaten or inhaled are mildly psychoactive. I'm not encouraging people to go and smoke weed, but if there's nothing in all the laws of Islam that single it out and define it specifically as an 'intoxicant' (which, medically, it's not) then you can't say it's haram.

Drinking too much water can kill you also, as could consuming too much caffeine.

[Frosty]

AlgerianShia, on 15 September 2009 - 05:07 PM, said:

nything that intoxicates ur mind is haram, end of story (smoek, liquid, or chocking urself til u get high)

Laws pertaining to the prohibition of intoxicants were put into place because when your mind is foggy it can lead you to immoral deeds and so on. Cannabis doesn't intoxicate me nor impair my judgement or thinking, infact the effects I gain from cannabis have always been akin to tobacco just better. What then? If I don't become intoxicated is it still haram? Does anything that mildly changes one's consciousness fall under the intoxicant banner?

[Researcher]

Irishman, on 21 September 2009 - 12:20 PM, said:

Drinking too much water can kill you also, as could consuming too much caffeine.

You may be right - you're saying that the difference between medicine and poison is dosage. However in Islam there is an express prohibition on the consumption of alcohol but no such explicit prohibition on caffeine or cannabis or shrooms etc. So we have to apply the test of: is this thing toxic or is it safe? Alcohol would be considered toxic on the basis that your liver works very hard to get it out of your system after its been drunk. Your liver does not go into warp-drive to protect the organism when you smoke cannabis or drink water.

[yassameen]

Researcher, on 21 September 2009 - 12:41 PM, said:

You may be right - you're saying that the difference between medicine and poison is dosage. However in Islam there is an express prohibition on the consumption of alcohol but no such explicit prohibition on caffeine or cannabis or shrooms etc. So we have to apply the test of: is this thing toxic or is it safe? Alcohol would be considered toxic on the basis that your liver works very hard to get it out of your system after its been drunk. Your liver does not go into warp-drive to protect the organism when you smoke cannabis or drink water.

from where you get this idea that alcohol is haram cause it is toxic ?poision like ?

http://www.hajiabbas...kafi-6/325.html

what would make you -drunk like- if you consume it too much then the little amount of it is haram ! thats what we talk about when referring to drugs including marjuana not intoxication -poisioning-

[Irishman]

Researcher, on 21 September 2009 - 12:41 PM, said:

You may be right - you're saying that the difference between medicine and poison is dosage. However in Islam there is an express prohibition on the consumption of alcohol but no such explicit prohibition on caffeine or cannabis or shrooms etc. So we have to apply the test of: is this thing toxic or is it safe? Alcohol would be considered toxic on the basis that your liver works very hard to get it out of your system after its been drunk. Your liver does not go into warp-drive to protect the organism when you smoke cannabis or drink water.

The same can be said of caffeine. A few cups will do no harm, the same as small quantities of alcohol.

[Researcher]

yassameen, on 21 September 2009 - 02:57 PM, said:

from where you get this idea that alcohol is haram cause it is toxic ?poision like ?

http://www.hajiabbas...kafi-6/325.html

what would make you -drunk like- if you consume it too much then the little amount of it is haram ! thats what we talk about when referring to drugs including marjuana not intoxication -poisioning-

I said alcohol is haram because it's expressly prohibited, not because it's toxic. Alcohol is not haram on account of it being an intoxicant, but on account of that Allah has prohibited it. He has not prohibited other drugs like coffee or cannabis. YOU have prohibited those other drugs and justify it with whatever reasoning, not Him.

Irishman, on 21 September 2009 - 03:05 PM, said:

The same can be said of caffeine. A few cups will do no harm, the same as small quantities of alcohol.

That's exactly my point. Alcohol is haram because Allah has forbidden it, but caffeine is not haram even though the body might reject it like poison. As Muslims, we drink coffee because it is not haram, and abstain from alcohol because it is haram. It has nothing to do with the substance's effect on the body. It has everything to do with the injunctions of Allah.

[Mr. Anteater]

Researcher, on 21 September 2009 - 03:09 PM, said:

I said alcohol is haram because it's expressly prohibited, not because it's toxic. Alcohol is not haram on account of it being an intoxicant, but on account of that Allah has prohibited it. He has not prohibited other drugs like coffee or cannabis. YOU have prohibited those other drugs and justify it with whatever reasoning, not Him.

That's exactly my point. Alcohol is haram because Allah has forbidden it, but caffeine is not haram even though the body might reject it like poison. As Muslims, we drink coffee because it is not haram, and abstain from alcohol because it is haram. It has nothing to do with the substance's effect on the body. It has everything to do with the injunctions of Allah.

Anything that harms your body is against ISLAM. These things all harm your brain and cause you to behave differently. They are all morally and ethically wrong. Unless you use it as medication then it is haraam.

[avjar7]

عن الامام الكاظم عليه السلام : ان الله لم يحرم الخمر لاسمها ولكن حرمها لعاقبتها فما كان عاقبة الخمر فهو خمر

Imam al-Kadhim said: Verily Allah has not forbidden khamr because of its name, rather He has forbidden it because of its outcome, so what has the outcome of khamr, then it is khamr.

Edited by avjar7, 22 September 2009 - 09:16 AM.

[Maryaam]

avjar7, on 22 September 2009 - 08:53 AM, said:

Úä ÇáÇãÇã ÇáßÇÙã Úáíå ÇáÓáÇã : Çä Çááå áã íÍÑã ÇáÎãÑ áÇÓãåÇ æáßä ÍÑãåÇ áÚÇÞÈÊåÇ ÝãÇ ßÇä ÚÇÞÈÉ ÇáÎãÑ Ýåæ ÎãÑ

Imam al-Kadhim said: Verily Allah has not forbidden khamr because of its name, rather he has forbidden it because of its outcome, so what has the outcome of khamr, then it is khamr.

+1

[Researcher]

Farhadfarsi83, on 22 September 2009 - 05:40 AM, said:

Anything that harms your body is against ISLAM. These things all harm your brain and cause you to behave differently. They are all morally and ethically wrong. Unless you use it as medication then it is haraam.

It is not established that coffee or cannabis harms the body or brain. No doubt, in sufficiently large quantities it will damage the brain, as will, for example, 'safe' foodstuffs like nutmeg or sage. It is a question of dosage.

Quote

Imam al-Kadhim said: Verily Allah has not forbidden khamr because of its name, rather He has forbidden it because of its outcome, so what has the outcome of khamr, then it is khamr.

OK. So what he said is, methanol, freon and other such poisons, having the same effect on the body as ethanol alcohol that is drunk, are equally haram. However coffee and cannabis have completely different effects from khamr. Perhaps to a simple or primitive people, it may have seemed that anything that raised endorphin levels had the same outcome as khamr. However we know now that exercise raises endorphin levels in a completely different way from alcohol, and likewise with caffeine stimulating the brain, and cannabis activating completely different brain receptors than both.

Edited by Researcher, 22 September 2009 - 09:54 AM.

[Maryaam]

Researcher, on 22 September 2009 - 09:50 AM, said:

It is not established that coffee or cannabis harms the body or brain. No doubt, in sufficiently large quantities it will damage the brain, as will, for example, 'safe' foodstuffs like nutmeg or sage. It is a question of dosage.

I dont know about coffee - but there is lots of research on cannabis and they have lead to some fairly accepted conclusions.  For example, from:

http://www.betterhea...nabis_marijuana


Cannabis may also have additional effects on long-term users, including:
The risk of asthma, emphysema, shortness of breath, chest infections, and throat, mouth and lung cancers
Poor concentration, memory loss and learning difficulties
Depression of the immune system, which increases the risk of developing infections
Serious mental illness, such as schizophrenia.
Cancer-causing (carcinogenic) substances
Cannabis smoke has more tar and contains a higher concentration of certain cancer-causing (carcinogenic) agents than the smoke from tobacco.

Cannabis can cause psychosis
Research suggests that cannabis use can make existing psychotic symptoms worse. It may even bring on symptoms in people who are predisposed to psychosis if they have a personal or family history of the disorder.

It is also believed that cannabis use, especially if heavy and regular, may cause an individual to experience psychotic symptoms that can last for a few days. These episodes are often characterised by visual or aural (hearing-related) hallucinations.

Tolerance and dependence
A tolerance to cannabis can develop with regular use, which means the person has to take increasing quantities to get the same effect. Some people can become psychologically and/or physically dependent on cannabis.

[Researcher]

Maryaam, on 22 September 2009 - 09:54 AM, said:

I dont know about coffee - but there is lots of research on cannabis and they have lead to some fairly accepted conclusions.  For example, from:

http://www.betterhea...nabis_marijuana

Sorry, but that's a government propaganda 'factsheet' not scientific research. Governments lie through their teeth every single day to keep the population in check. The latest factsheet through my door was about the so-called 'swine flu'. I checked out Jane Burgermeister and came to my own conclusions without the government's so-called 'advice'. There has been a lot of scientific research that has proven that cannabis is safe, and should be legalised. If you want I can dig some of this out for you. However I'm not encouraging people to go out and smoke cannabis... just saying that it's not 'haram' within the meaning of Islam.

[Maryaam]

Researcher, on 22 September 2009 - 10:05 AM, said:

Sorry, but that's a government propaganda 'factsheet' not scientific research. Governments lie through their teeth every single day to keep the population in check. The latest factsheet through my door was about the so-called 'swine flu'. I checked out Jane Burgermeister and came to my own conclusions without the government's so-called 'advice'. There has been a lot of scientific research that has proven that cannabis is safe, and should be legalised. If you want I can dig some of this out for you. However I'm not encouraging people to go out and smoke cannabis... just saying that it's not 'haram' within the meaning of Islam.

I thought anything that was an intoxicant and that altered your perception of things was haram.

I studied/worked in a teaching hospital on a psychiatric ward as part of my internship and attended enough rounds presented by cutting edge experts in the area (neuropsychologists and psychiatrists) to know that there is a link between brain impact and cannabis. They are united in their belief that it is harmful.  It will also impact your breathing tubes more severely than regular cigarettes...burning off of cilia and 40X greater tar level to nicely cover your oxygen exchange surfaces within your lungs.

There is enough research at this point to take the harmful results quite seriously.  

I am sure there is lots of bunkum published that say that just about any foreign chemical you care to ingest through stomach, mucus membranes or whatever, is totally safe and some even say that it enhances your quality of life. Go ahead - enhance your life..

Your body operates within a delicate balance with a narrow range of operational parameters of functioning. Ingesting foreign substances very quickly upset that balance and brain chemistry has an extremely narrow mess up range. Cannabis is not a wise thing to be playing with. Fool yourself, but dont give out misinformation.

[Researcher]

Maryaam, on 22 September 2009 - 10:27 AM, said:

I am sure there is lots of bunkum published

I haven't even provided any sources or information at all, yet, and you've already dismissed it as 'bunkum'... This says a lot about your lack of objectivity and rationality.

Quote

that say that just about any foreign chemical you care to ingest through stomach, mucus membranes or whatever, is totally safe and some even say that it enhances your quality of life. Go ahead - enhance your life..

Thanks but I don't need your permission. In any case I don't really take cannabis.. if it's there (and it is perhaps up to twice a year) I will smoke, happily.

Quote

Your body operates within a delicate balance with a narrow range of operational parameters of functioning.

Wow do you write scripts for Star Trek?

Quote

Ingesting foreign substances very quickly upset that balance and brain chemistry has an extremely narrow mess up range. Cannabis is not a wise thing to be playing with. Fool yourself, but dont give out misinformation.

How can you say something is 'misinformation' before anyone's ever seen, heard or read it?? You need to check a dictionary for the word 'prejudice'.
I'm now going to publish some credible information from scientists. Go and read a tabloid or something and just give me a moment...

Edited by Researcher, 22 September 2009 - 10:55 AM.

[Researcher]

Recent Research on Medical Marijuana
Cannabis and Driving - A Scientific and Rational Review
Cannabis Smoke and Cancer - Assessing the Risk
Cannabis, Mental Health and CONTEXT
Cannabis and Psychosis
Cannabis vs Tobacco as Cancer Causing Agents
Cannabinoids elicit antidepressant-like behaviour etc.
UK House of Lords Recommendation on Cannabis (Legalise)
Canadian Senate Report on Cannabis

[Maryaam]

Researcher, on 22 September 2009 - 10:40 AM, said:

I haven't even provided any sources or information at all, yet, and you've already dismissed it as 'bunkum'... This says a lot about your lack of objectivity and rationality.



Thanks but I don't need your permission. In any case I don't really take cannabis.. if it's there (and it is perhaps up to twice a year) I will smoke, happily.



Wow do you write scripts for Star Trek?



How can you say something is 'misinformation' before anyone's ever seen, heard or read it?? You need to check a dictionary for the word 'prejudice'.
I'm now going to publish some credible information that will show you up. Go and read a tabloid or something and just give me a moment...

Any substance user will defend (and even promote) their use of their substance of choice.  They become beligerant and irrational if pushed.

I worked and studied in this area while completing my MSc in Psychology. I have studied the research efforts of many and was supervised by experts in their field - both within the hospital and those who were brought in for consults and academics.

Smoke what you want. Believe what you want. My point was that you should not post misinformation.  However, judging from your post - you plan to do just that. Whatever.

[Researcher]

Maryaam, on 22 September 2009 - 10:55 AM, said:

Any substance user will defend (and even promote) their use of their substance of choice.  They become beligerant and irrational if pushed.

I worked and studied in this area while completing my MSc in Psychology. I have studied the research efforts of many and was supervised by experts in their field - both within the hospital and those who were brought in for consults and academics.

Smoke what you want. Believe what you want. My point was that you should not post misinformation.  However, judging from your post - you plan to do just that. Whatever.

Nice one, you had to post a response about 3 seconds before I posted my links.

By the way Psychology isn't a real science and I'm sorry but I don't take your MSc seriously.

Edited by Researcher, 22 September 2009 - 10:58 AM.

[Maryaam]

Researcher, on 22 September 2009 - 10:57 AM, said:

By the way Psychology isn't a real science and I'm sorry but I don't take your MSc seriously.

I am sure all those in the fields of brain and behaviour are crushed by your scholarly opinion.  

[Irishman]

shiatobe, on 22 September 2009 - 11:00 AM, said:

I agree with Researcher.

Cannabis, if taken in appropriate doses can be healthy for the human mind. I know in some labs scientist have treated kids with ADHD using cannabis -- test has proven that this helps them focus in school. Don't believe me, do your research.

So we are not at appropriate doses for cannabis?. How can one measure accurately the strength of cannabis, as they mainly come from illegal sources and there are many different plants with different strengths. Treating kids with an already existing medical disorder is different to putting cannabis into a normal working mind. Cannabis is a good painkiller for some medical conditions also, but there again, it is being used to treat something, and not as a recreational drug.

[Researcher]

Maryaam, on 22 September 2009 - 12:05 PM, said:

I am sure all those in the fields of brain and behaviour are crushed by your scholarly opinion.  

I don't mean to be mean, just that I'm aware of how the study of psychology has developed over time from a kind of belief system in its own right, and its current incorporation of medical science is a new thing. I'm not saying you're not a clever person for having achieved an accredited degree in your field, just that there is no basis for scientific completeness or reliability in psychology. For example, a current field of research in psychology is the matching of physiognomial characteristics to traditional categories of 'psychological illness', such as schizophrenia. That is surely fishing in the dark.. An important element missed out in the fields of 'brain and behaviour' is the spirit. The way I see it, religion and psychology head off in diametrically opposed directions.

Edited by Researcher, 22 September 2009 - 02:52 PM.