159 replies to this topic

[Dino24]

I would like to ask all of the people who are stating that both men and women are equal but DIFFERENT with different roles asigned to them

what are these roles? and who asigned them and where are they written?

These so called roles do not exist, they are roles asigned to us by society NOT by god

I would like to see solid proof from the Quran stating women were created for a particular role that men were not.

I believe that God is all knowing and because of the situation of the Arabs of the time, certain verses were specifically for them. they were the ones who would have to spread the message of islam so it was critical for them to understand certain things and slowly bring justice to their society. anybody who claims EVERY verse in the quran is universal is wrong there are specific verses about a very very specific situation for a specific group of people or person. <- for example what about the verse in teh Quran stating it is ok to drink an intoxicating drink so long as you dont come to prayers drunk, of course this was only for them and later changed
or the verse where the arab said to his wife YOUR BACK IS LIKE MY MOTHERS BACK and the verse says when you state this it is offically a divorce so the prophet told him not to say this statement

and for anybody who says women hve been given beauty and men strength AR EYOU KIDDING ME there are so many unattractive WOMEN OUT THERE and really handsome men.

Edited by Zareen, 13 December 2009 - 04:38 AM.

[lion]

Dino24, on 13 December 2009 - 03:47 AM, said:

I would like to ask all of the people who are stating that both men and women are equal but DIFFERENT with different roles asigned to them

what are these roles? and who asigned them and where are they written?

These so called roles do not exist, they are roles asigned to us by society NOT by god

I would like to see solid proof from the Quran stating women were created for a particular role that men were not.

I believe that God is all knowing and because of the situation of the Arabs of the time, certain verses were specifically for them. they were the ones who would have to spread the message of islam so it was critical for them to understand certain things and slowly bring justice to their society. anybody who claims EVERY verse in the quran is universal is wrong there are specific verses about a very very specific situation for a specific group of people or person. <- for example what about the verse in teh Quran stating it is ok to drink an intoxicating drink so long as you dont come to prayers drunk, of course this was only for them and later changed
or the verse where the arab said to his wife YOUR BACK IS LIKE MY MOTHERS BACK and the verse says when you state this it is offically a divorce so the prophet told him not to say this statement

and for anybody who says women hve been given beauty and men strength AR EYOU KIDDING ME there are so many unattractive WOMEN OUT THERE and really handsome men.

Your claims can be easily refuted if you look at the animal species other than humans. Fore example, Study the Male Lion and the Female Lioness and you will understand. This is a biological fact that can not be debated.

[Abu Ali 2]

[quote name='Dino24' date='13 December 2009 - 03:47 AM' timestamp='1260694056' post='1996121']
I would like to ask all of the people who are stating that both men and women are equal but DIFFERENT with different roles asigned to them

what are these roles? and who asigned them and where are they written?[/quote]

Bismillah Ar'Rahman Ar'Raheem

" Men are the protectors and maintainers of women, because Allah has given the one more (strength) than the other, and because they support them from their means. Therefore the righteous women are devoutly obedient, and guard in
(the husband's) absence what Allah would have them guard." (4:34)

"And give the women their dower as a gift spontaneous"  (4:4)

" "Say to the believing men that they cast down their glance and guard their private parts; that is purer for them." (24:30)

" "Say to the believing women that they cast down their glance and guard their private parts and reveal not their adornment except such as is outward and let them cast their veils (khumar) over their bosoms and reveal not their adornment"  (24:31)

"And when you ask (his wives) for something you want, ask them from behind a curtain (hijab). That makes for greater purity for your hearts and theirs." (33:53)

" Mothers shall suckle their children for two whole years; (that is) for those who wish to complete the suckling. The duty of feeding and clothing nursing mothers in a seemly manner is upon the father of the child. No-one should be charged beyond his capacity. A mother should not be made to suffer because of her child, nor should he to whom the child is born (be made to suffer) because of his child. And on the (father's) heir is incumbent the like of that (which was incumbent on the father). If they desire to wean the child by mutual consent and (after) consultation, it is no sin for them; and if ye wish to give your children out to nurse, it is no sin for you, provide that ye pay what is due from you in kindness. Observe your duty to Allah, and know that Allah is Seer of what ye do." (2:233)

These are just a few, there are many more....

[quote]I would like to see solid proof from the Quran stating women were created for a particular role that men were not.
[/quote]

See above.

[quote]...anybody who claims EVERY verse in the quran is universal is wrong there are specific verses about a very very specific situation for a specific group of people or person[/quote]

" This Quran, behold, is no less than a reminder to all the worlds" 38:87

" .. this (Quran) is nought else but a reminder [from God] to all mankind." 68:52

" This [message] is no less than a reminder to all mankind" 81:27

So the Holy Quran is obviously a universal message sent to all mankind (by it's own admission). Of course, the Quran was also revealed in stages at a certain time and place for a specific situation, and understanding the context of the revelation is important. Each letter of the Holy Quran is filled with meaning, both for a specific situation that occurred during the lifetime of the Prophet Mohammad (a.s.) and for us today. Also, the Holy Quran contains verses both clear and ambigious (3:7), and noone understanding the meaning of the ambigious verses except the Prophet Mohammad (a.s.), his purified progeny (a.s.), and those who faithfully relate their traditions.

[quote]for example what about the verse in teh Quran stating it is ok to drink an intoxicating drink so long as you dont come to prayers drunk, of course this was only for them and later changed/quote]

You are referring to 4:43 which states : "O YOU who have attained to faith! Do not attempt to pray while you are in a state of intoxication" The "intoxication" here does not refer to alchohol, which was forbidden BEFORE this surah was revealed (in Surah 2 (Al Baqurah), which was revealed BEFORE Surah 4 (Al Nisa)). The intoxication here refers to sleep, as many of the companions were coming to Fajr prayer (the morning prayer) while they were not fully awake.

[quote]or the verse where the arab said to his wife YOUR BACK IS LIKE MY MOTHERS BACK and the verse says when you state this it is offically a divorce so the prophet told him not to say this statement
[/quote]

" those among you who make their wives unlawful to them by Zihaar (i.e., by saying to them "You are like my mother's back,") they cannot be their mothers. None can be their mothers except those who gave them birth. And verily, they utter an ill word and a lie. And verily, Allaah is Oft-Pardoning, Oft-Forgiving. " 58:2

This was a practice of the Arabs in the days of ignorance, however, the point of the verse is also to explain to people that just by saying something it does not make it so (which a universal message, no just for the person or Arabs at the time).

[quote] and for anybody who says women hve been given beauty and men strength AR EYOU KIDDING ME there are so many unattractive WOMEN OUT THERE and really handsome men.[/quote]

Who is saying this?

[AleshiaJayne]

shiasoldier786, on 30 July 2009 - 02:40 PM, said:

There is equality, but both genders have their own responsibilities and priorities...

  Hi! Im actually a student, and I was told (by a christian professor) that in Islam, men are allowed to have up to 12 wives, and a slave girl, and women are not equal, and that the religion of Islam is all negative and no positive, he says it is a religion of hate.
I am a student of his, and I try to prove to him that the religion of Islam is positive.  He does not like me in his class because I am not christian, and because i believe in the prophet of Allah. he also said that Allah can be good one day and change his mind the next and punish anyone he chooses.
Please help me to prove thesem wrong! although i am a female, and not a shia, i believe in Allah, and i believe the christians should be punished for their selfishness and hypocracy!

ok, so men are superior to women in Islam, i dont care if thats true, BECAUSE ITS TRUE RIGHT HERE IN THE EDITED "UNITED" STATES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! The only difference is, is that Islam is a religion of honesty and purity.


Mod's Note: Since this is your first post, I am giving you are break. But please do not swear. This is an Islamic board.

Edited by Zareen, 14 December 2009 - 09:52 PM.
remove swear words

[133ali]

AleshiaJayne, on 13 December 2009 - 08:21 PM, said:

  Hi! Im actually a student, and I was told (by a christian professor) that in Islam, men are allowed to have up to 12 wives, and a slave girl, and women are not equal, and that the religion of Islam is all negative and no positive, he says it is a religion of hate.
I am a student of his, and I try to prove to him that the religion of Islam is positive.  He does not like me in his class because I am not christian, and because i believe in the prophet of Allah. he also said that Allah can be good one day and change his mind the next and punish anyone he chooses.
[color="#FF0000"]

Men are allowed upto 4 wives, but the westernisd men and women can carry on as many affairs as they can, without feeling guilty, and  
also to openly discuss the same in the media.

Islam is a religion of peace, submission to the will of god. As for islam being a religion of hate, and Allah can be good one day and bad
the next; well if he will care to look up the Old Testament, he will find a lot of things which is accepted and practiced by Muslims.

If he has a prejudiced mind, or bears enemity towards Islam, I am afraid, he will never be convinced otherwise, not even if an angel descends from heaven toc

[Envir-Islam]

AleshiaJayne, on 13 December 2009 - 08:21 PM, said:

  Hi! Im actually a student, and I was told (by a christian professor) that in Islam, men are allowed to have up to 12 wives, and a slave girl, and women are not equal, and that the religion of Islam is all negative and no positive, he says it is a religion of hate.
I am a student of his, and I try to prove to him that the religion of Islam is positive.  He does not like me in his class because I am not christian, and because i believe in the prophet of Allah. he also said that Allah can be good one day and change his mind the next and punish anyone he chooses.
Please help me to prove thesem wrong! although i am a female, and not a shia, i believe in Allah, and i believe the christians should be punished for their selfishness and hypocracy!

ok, so men are superior to women in Islam, i dont care if thats true, BECAUSE ITS TRUE RIGHT HERE IN THE EDITED "UNITED" STATES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! The only difference is, is that Islam is a religion of honesty and purity.


Mod's Note: Since this is your first post, I am giving you are break. But please do not swear. This is an Islamic board.

I think whom ever your teacher is, is just someone who that can not except the religion. I know a few of them. Best thing is ti true to get pass the class and never talk to him again. No matter how hard you try he will not chnage his mind, based on the info you proved he has chosen his side.

I do not think Christians shoulde be punished. They have not done anything wrong other then praise their lord.

the united states may have its issues but it is what ever. All counties are the same. Just be glad we are not in France and forbidden to wear our scaves (if you happen to wear one)

Hope all is well,
Drema

[unity1]

Salam

is an apple and an orange the same, similar, equal!  While they are both fruit, both from a tree and both good for you.  They each have their advantages
or assets as well as shortcomings.  That is why Allah has blessed us with different fruits that blossom at different times of the year.

Now, is a lioness the same as a lion, no where other than in the human kingdom is there such contention!  Why?  Mostly because in other
groups, whether that be food items or animals there are pre-defined roles and everyone goes about their daily routine based upon those
pre-programmed definitions, expectations and assigned tasks.

Only in the human race we are given a brain to think, ponder and question.  It is unfortunate that we spend this unparalleled blessing towards such
menial, futile and juvenile endeavors as equality of two distinctly different, yet each invaluable in it's own way and for it's own uniqueness.

Ma salaama
Unity1

[Gypsy]

AleshiaJayne, on 13 December 2009 - 08:21 PM, said:

  Hi! Im actually a student, and I was told (by a christian professor) that in Islam, men are allowed to have up to 12 wives, and a slave girl, and women are not equal, and that the religion of Islam is all negative and no positive, he says it is a religion of hate.
I am a student of his, and I try to prove to him that the religion of Islam is positive.

Since he is your professor, you get to ask him questions. Just ask him to show you where in the Quran it says Muslim men are allowed to marry 12 wives. Then ask him to show you the exact verse in the Holy Quran that is negative or hateful. Of course you can tell him that you have not come across anything bad/negative from the Holy Book. Since he is ignorant (like you describe), he might not even realize that Islamic teaching is based on the Scripture.

Edited by Zareen, 19 December 2009 - 05:23 PM.

[ananda.zahra]

Salam...

'why dont leave them different' (its a research book about equality of gender)

maybe im answering n maybe not
first have to state 'EQUAL'  is not the same as 'SAME'

Men and Women cant compare in the same field, simply because theyre totally different
as : theres no philosophical women, or theres no women ulama' or marja, or something like that.

In the past, we have to remember that women are not allowed to take further study, anywhere in this world, from islamic world, to the 'modern' west
marriages in the past were commence in early age, and women bind to their child, as soon as theyre born.
In one side they are not allowed to take advanced studies, and in another side, theyre too busy upbringing their child, and nurturing their family

SO, we could see that the above proof (theres no philosofical women what so ever) are not valid, and could not stated that one is superior completely with other according to these proof


Do you know that israel (nation) and Chinese (nation) were make experiment to make women equal in the same field as men?
They try to treated them the same completely, because doing so, will doubled the amount of workers (women and men, not men and some women)
Here is what they do :

1. they try to dis-encourage marriage
Why? Basically marriage are making women as slave (they thought). As soon as women binds in marriage, they could not be free to do another things
they will busy with household work, cooking etc. To do this, they encourage free sex, and even brings prostitute to the experimental community

2. they try to make women free from household work,
with community/public kitchen, laundries and apartements that very-very little, to minimize cleaning effort
This they hope to freed women from cooking for their family, and cleaning for them

3. They try to separated women from their child, and dis-encourage having child
by contraceptives to prevent pregnancy and make orphanage to take them They take the child from their family, or their parents and the nation 'nurture' them and bring the child up in the orphanage.
Completely separated from their family

With those above, they hope that women will excel in work for the community, and wont have anything to refrain herself from knowledge, and work, because she has time to do it

Is that what you want? women freed from anything that refrain her to excel herself in public?

YES, Women can became anything she want

full time scientist that devoted her whole life to it, full time artist that created many-many great paintings, full time writer that devoted her life to write and created so many great books

But, what about her life? i mean her family life?
who will take care of her when she was old? her children? then who take care of her children while she was working? the nannies?
what happens with the child's heart and mind? what  psychology say?

What about the humanity? will it continue if theres no women want to get married OR no women want to have children OR no women want a child as a burden (and leave them to nannies)?
I bet the result are disastrous

May I continue what happen with the nation's experiment please

1.  At first, it works. Women side by side with men, work together at the industry, excel at science field etc. But, how matter the nation try, more women prefers cooking, laundrying etc then men

2. As the time grows, the closeness in the orphanages, make more men and women (next generation) wants marriages. nothing could stop them, not even the police.
with marriages, come child, and more and more people want the child with them, because they dont want to repeat their cold and lonely life in orphanage.

3. they get so tired with food from public kitchen, so they add their own kitchen to their homes.
with it, the public kitchen became useless, and nothing, including advancing recipes, etc could make people back to the public kitchen.
the public kitchen are lack in these thing 'closeness, love and warmth of homemade foods'

3.  with the above all, women choose to work at nearby kitchen, or laundry, or not at all, and choose to upbring and nurture their child

we can say that the two nation is failed with their try.
You could read it in 'membiarkan berbeda (just leave them different) by ratna megawangi

Why should we force women to be the same as men, or we force men to be the same as women?

Allah made us different, not because He is less knowing then us, but because He knows, this world needs balance

He made man that way, so man would go out and do something for their family to eat, or do something for the society
He made women the other way, so woman would nurture the child, and do the best for the family.

why its looks like unfair? why men seems to achieve greater success?
BECAUSE : the success of men is available to public eyes (he work in public), but the success of women is not available in public eyes
We have to remember that family is a cubic building to nation, and humanity. So, if the family is happy and child nurtured and educated properly, the nation will be a great nation, so is the humanity.
Women seems has so little part, but contrary to it, she has the BIGGEST PART of it.

We could see Allah praising men in one field, and praising women in other field.
So why dont leave them different, just as they are?

Wa-llaahu-a'lam

[ananda.zahra]

if you wish to know where to read the experiment here is the reference :

overall
David B Lynn "Cultural Experiment in Restructuring the Family, Tem got no clue where its been published

KIbbutz-Israel  Experiment :
1. Yonina Talmon : The Family  in a revolutionary movement-the case of the KIbbutz in israel in M.F.  NImoff, COmparative family systems (Boston : Houghton MIfflin Co. 1965
2. Rosanna Hertz "Family in the kibbutz : A review of Authority Relations and Women's Status,  in Herrriet Gross and Marvin SUssman (ed) : Alternatives to Traditional family LIving,  Marriage and Family  (New York Family review vol 5, no  2, Harworth Press 1982)
3. Melford E Spiro and Audrey G Spiro : Children of the KIbbutz : A Study in Child training and Personality (Cambridge MA Harvard University Press 1975)
4. Melford Spiro : Kibbuts : Venture in utopia (New York Shocken Press 1963)
5. Melford  Spiro : Gender and Culture : Kibbutz Women Revisited (DUrham  North California : Duke University Press, 1979
6.  LIonel TIger and Joseph Shepner 'Women in the KIbbutz '  (New York, Harcourt Brace Jovanovich 1975)

Chinese Experiment

1. Theodore His-en CHen "The new socialist Man" Comparative education Review XIII:1 February 1969, page 88
2. The result are  on UN-report : United Nations : The role of the family in development : four studies of the situation in Asia and the Pacific

Cuban Experiment

1.  Fidel Castro : Speech delivered on Santa Clara 9 December 1966 Women and The Cuban Revolutions, (New York Pathfinder press 1970) and Speech delivered at May 1st 1966 in KEnner and PEtras (ed) Fidel Speaks (New York Grove Press 1969) Speech at La VIllas
2. Wyatt MacGaffey and Clifford R Barnett : Cuba : Its People, its Society, its Culture (New Haven : Human Relations Area Files Press 1962 page 142-344
3. Marvin Leiner, Children are the revolutions : Day care in Cuba (New York Penguin Books, 1978 page 13

Further Readings :

Towards a New Psychology of Women (Boston, Beacon Press 1986), Jessica Benjamin, The Bonds of  Love (New York, Pantheon 1988), Carol GIlligan, In a different voice (Cambridge : Harvard university press), Sandra   LIpsitz Bern "The  Lenses of Gender

if you want to make a thesis or paper and you need list of books about this, i could type some more,but right now im tired..................................

[Abu Ali 2]

ananda.zahra, on 19 December 2009 - 07:06 PM, said:

Do you know that israel (nation) and Chinese (nation) were make experiment to make women equal in the same field as men?
[i]They try to treated them the same completely, because doing so, will doubled the amount of workers (women and men, not men and some women)

" The state does not need the family, because the domestic economy is no longer profitable: the family distracts the worker from more useful and productive labour. The members of the family do not need the family either, because the task of bringing up the children which was formerly theirs is passing more and more into the hands of the collective. In place of the old relationship between men and women, a new one is developing: a union of affection and comradeship, a union of two equal members of communist society, both of them free, both of them independent and both of them workers."

http://www.marxists....nism-family.htm

What is interesting is that both Marxism and Capitalism see the nuclear family as counterproductive to their aims (i.e., to make all citizens of the nation into "productive" labor that will enrich the nation). They had different strategies. The communists, however, were just more explicit about it (as you can see above). Capitalism, however, had the same goal (but with a different strategy). The champions of capitalism used (and still do) the "market" to convince women that you are inferior to men unless your production outside of the home is equal to a man. This puts women in the impossible position of trying to compete with men outside the home, while struggling with their own, God-given maternal instincts. The result is that all the natural family bonds (i.e., husband-wife, mother-child, etc.) are weakened to the breaking point.

Only Islam gives both men and women guidance that will benefit their life in general, and not just educate them on how they can chain themselves to the millstone.

[ananda.zahra]

Abu Ali 2, on 20 December 2009 - 08:05 AM, said:

Capitalism, however, had the same goal (but with a different strategy). The champions of capitalism used (and still do) the "market" to convince women that you are inferior to men unless your production outside of the home is equal to a man. This puts women in the impossible position of trying to compete with men outside the home, while struggling with their own, God-given maternal instincts. The result is that all the natural family bonds (i.e., husband-wife, mother-child, etc.) are weakened to the breaking point.
Only Islam gives both men and women guidance that will benefit their life in general, and not just educate them on how they can chain themselves to the millstone.

Thats true.. and the capitalist are quite successful i think. More and more people has no interest in marriage, and more and more people sneer to marriage ideas.
and what i sadly review, result in  more and more child abandoned by their family, abused by their own parents, molested by their mother 'love patner', and considered as 'burden' not a lovely gift from God
as  an effect, less people interested to raise the child to became a good man/woman. they just want to get rid of the child as fast as they can, and social worker get very busy about it (and they should be)

And, thanks to the Hollywood films and what so called 'modern education' (sic) more people in the east country are worshipping the ideas of 'modern woman', working woman that 'equal' to man..
They blindly took the 'ideal' woman, without realizing that behind that ideas, more and more people has loosen family bonds, and more and more child get abandoned in their own family
BESIDES, they took their educational system, and thrown out their own educational system, without realizing that the former east knowledge is full of wisdom, and they now take an education without deep meaning, without wisdom, without knowing the purpose of life, or the meaning of life.

Now I could see the truth behind what my friend once told me in a closed discussion
"Maybe what  Allah and Rasul means when they said that the sign of the end of the world (Kiyamah) is when the sun rises in the west, is when most people think that we should follow the western people, because we think there rise the 'sun' of this zaman. As short, When we took west as inspiration.'

btw, sorry, i just see that the problem is about 12 wives, i have my answer about that. But i want to do research about it some more before answering.. i dont want to make you answer the professor without good knowledge, and end yourself in a deep pit of humiliation

Wa-laahu 'a lam

[ananda.zahra]

The 12 wives problem (am i late? sorry   very late i guess)
please if someone here has better knowledge, add here n there, i just cant bear to answer it myself, really

One aspect that always make people confuse, disturbed about our prophet, Rasulullah is the poligamy

for someone who has been raised in the Christian tradition with his ascetic ideals is a life of jesus's celibacy and monogamy, it would be difficult to understand that a prophet can get married and even have many wives
that for a start
indeed, one of the most common attacks directed at the prophet muhammad from early Middle Ages until today is lust and sexual crimes.
Not only non moslem  affected by this statement, but some muslims are affected too, and quite severe too i think.

eh, sorry lets begin from your question:
IS moslem man allowed to marry 12 wives ? the answer is no
then where is or what 12 all about?

Rasulullah married 12 wives. That is where you should know, and that is why your prof said that moslem  (man) could have 12 wives. but he is wrong
For all moslem, its 4 that is allowed, and thats maximal. You know, its a big leap. Because, preislamic arab used to married hundreds of woman. yes, hundreds
thats why we heard something like harem, to keep wives or woman.

OK, lets back to our beloved rasulullah, he married 12 woman, i will listed here with reason n all
but, dont forget, before khadijah died, rasulullah didnt married a single woman. he is stick to the monogamy. After her death, he married some woman :

1. khadijah. rasul was 25 years old when they married
         She is the first woman, and rasul practiced monogamy during her life. after her, he married other woman, but she is still his love one, and this lead to jealousy, including aisha
         one interesting statement from aisha  is still known : why are you still remember her? she is an old woman (etc)... and  rasul is quite angry with it
2. Saudah binti jam'ah rasul was then 55 years old (this is khadijah's testament)..
3. aisyah (this is our problem) theyre togehter at 2 after hijrah
        when Khadija died, Abu Bakr offered her daughter to become rasul's wife.This bid had to be accepted by the prophet, if not, bad luck will befall aisyah
         remember, at that time, pre islamic tradition still practiced, and woman were considered property that can be owned and if not useful, will be discarded. So you could imagine why Rasul accepted this
         remember the habits of the Arabs before Islam . They often killed their female children to avoid embarrassment
          
         the problem is, that she is still very young when her father insisted rasul to marry aisha. So, she lived with rasul, waay afer the marriage, that is when she fully grown up. before that, she lived with her parents
         rasul refused to live with a Aishah as  a wife because she was still  too young
4. Hafsha, married 3 AH she was umar ibn khattab's daughter, and offered to rasul by umar  
5. Zainab, married by 3-4 AH she was widow of khuzaimah. She is stricken with poverty, and theres no way to help her except by marrying her at that time.
6. Ummu Salamah
     She was the daughter of Abu Ummayyah Sohail. When her husband passed away she was left with four children and had no means of maintenance. Sayyiduna Rasulullah (s), now 57 years
     old, married her in the month of Shawwal in 4 A.H.  She is very clever and a good strategic thinker
7. Zainab  She was the daughter of   bin Rabah and married Sayyiduna Zaid bin Harith ®, the adopted son of Sayyiduna Rasulullah (s).
    After her divorce, she married Sayyiduna Rasulullah (s) in 5 A.H., when he was 58 years old. IF  rasul didnt married her, then she will live as a humiliated ex-wife of former slave, and God knows what happen to suchwomen  
    at that time
8. Juwairiyah
     She was the daughter of Harith and was a widow. She was a captive of war and set free by  Rasulullah (s) who married her in 5 A.H.
     As a result of her marriage, the prisoners which belonged to her tribe were set free. This made many accept Islam.
9. Ummu Habibah
    She was the daughter of  Abu Sufyaan and a widow. Rasulullah (s) married her when she was 36- 37 years old in 6-7 A.H. This marriage also resulted in  Khalid bin Walid accepting Islam
10.  SAFIYAH
       She was a Jewess and taken captive during the Battle of Khaibar. Sayyiduna Rasulullah (s) married her in 7 A.H. This made a great impact on the Jews, with the result that many accepted Islam.
11.  MAYMUNA
    She was a widow.  Rasulullah married her in the month of Shawwal when she was 51 years old. Her marriage also drew many towards Islam.
12.  MARIA QIBTIYA
    She was given to  Rasulullah (s) as a gift by the Christian King of Egypt.

when you see, they are not married at the same time. All of them married with a reason.
some woman resent this, because many people think that marriage is a bond of love. yes, but, when you could save a life of a woman with her children with marry her, why not?
when you cant save her with other means, why not?

sorry, its another man turn to use this computer.. so bye bye i hope you could  read

'riwayat kehidupan nabi besar Muhammad SAW by hamid husaini
And  Muhammad is His messenger by Annemarie schimel'

[diddy]

i am boy but i think neither of them are superior to eachother they are both equals and are judged on good nd bad deeds thats my opion

[X Mona X]

I dont know about this... to be honest i think both genders are equal.. so called Muslim girls should really get facts right before they say something becuaseu can end up creating a huge debate.. which u do NOT want...


i think...

xxxx Allahfis

[jonrhaider]

Basim Ali, on 05 August 2009 - 07:09 AM, said:

,
               To further elaborate my point, I would quote 2 authentic references, which I got via the book 'Greater Sins'.
Allah, the Almighty has given men superiority over women and appointed them as the protectors of women. This is due to the fact that men have been provided by Allah (S.w.T.) with many qualities in great measure as compared to women, like strength, bravery etc. Further they spend their wealth upon their women. So the best women are those who are loyal to their husbands and obedient to their commands. They protect his property and their own chastity in the absence of their husbands. The Holy Prophet (S) has also said,

“Prostration of a human for another human being is not permitted. (If it had been) I would have ordered the wife to prostrate before her husband.”

(Wasa’il ul-Shia)

The Quran too says:
“Men are the maintainers of women because Allah has made some of them to excel others and because they spend out of their property; the good women are therefore obedient, guarding the unseen as Allah has guarded.” (Surah an-Nisā’ 4:34)

Men are hence, the maintainers, and women, the maintained. The superior maintains the inferior, always, just like Allah mantains us.


Basim Ali Jafri

I believe the quesiton of the thread is whether or not men are superior to women. While Imam Ali may have briefly and eloquently covered these three "deficiencies" possessed by women, he only did so because it was appropriate to warn about them on that specific occasion (after the battle of Jamal, caused by men's blind following of a woman's commands). It was therefore inappropriate and unnecessary to speak of the deficiencies of men (as the occasion did not call for such a sermon). This does NOT, however, mean that men posses no deficiencies. In fact, men are more likely to lust after women, men are more likely to act out of greed, and men are more likely to have anger management issues; additionally, men are more likely to act out of thirst for wealth and power (these are evident in historical accounts, and supported by gender psychology research).
So the the Imam's sermon from Nahj Al-Balagha (while a very good reference) does not show that men are superior to women. Perhaps men and women are not equal (as you've said) in the sense that they have their differences in qualities and responsibilities, NO human is "superior" to another human!

To emphasize this further, I think it should be a burden on all of us to set the record straight, by pen, by voice and by deed, that Islam (and particularly the School of Ahlul Bayt) DOES NOT view men as superior to women, and such consideration is to be seen as descrimination on the basis of gender, no different than descrimination on the basis of race, nationality or hair color for that matter. It is baseless and unacceptable!

With all due respect to the brother or sister that posted this thread, it is regretful that such issues still raise wonders amongst us. The answer to this question SHOULD be intuitive, automatic, and immediately known without hesitation! It isn't so, because we lack a strong and coherent foundation in our view of society and individuals and their rights. Imam Khomeini (qs) once said that if you lack the knowledge to whether something is right or wrong, simply follow your conscience! I don't think I think sleep at night knowing that some man thinks he is SUPERIOR to my mother, sister or daughter, on the basis of her gender.

I hope my reply is taken warmly and doesn't offend anyone, as that surely is not my intention.

Sincerely
Jon R Haider

[naro]

It's so funny reading pages of people debating of the superiority of men or women when they don't even define superiority itself.

That's why it is an eternal debate and will remain eternal, because people are too stupid to even define what they're talking about.

Superiority in rights ? No
Superiority in spiritual achievement ? Yes
Superiority in muscles ? Yes
Superiority in hierarchy ? Yes
etc

Who cares about men being superior in such and such particular field ? Nobody

Only one thing matters : They both have the same rights, they both will be judged justly. Never will you hear : Oh you are a man ? You're free to enter Paradise ! And that's the only thing you should really worry about.

[jonrhaider]

naro, on 10 January 2010 - 12:37 PM, said:

It's so funny reading pages of people debating of the superiority of men or women when they don't even define superiority itself.

That's why it is an eternal debate and will remain eternal, because people are too stupid to even define what they're talking about.

Superiority in rights ? No
Superiority in spiritual achievement ? Yes
Superiority in muscles ? Yes
Superiority in hierarchy ? Yes
etc

Who cares about men being superior in such and such particular field ? Nobody

Only one thing matters : They both have the same rights, they both will be judged justly. Never will you hear : Oh you are a man ? You're free to enter Paradise ! And that's the only thing you should really worry about.

Unless a specific definition for superiority is mentioned, then the implication is that we are referring to the traditional definiition. What you mean to say is that we haven't referred to a specific area of life where the question is to be applied; which implies that we are talking about all areas of life, including all of the above (rights, phyical build, sprituality, hierarchy, whatever that means, etc...)
Muscles is probably the only area in which there is SOME truth as to men being "superior" to women, but even then that's a stretch. But as far as spirituality, and hierarchy, I must beg to differ. Men are no more superior to women than one race is superior to another.

And to answer your question as to who cares; I think we should all care, since there are some people out there who still think that it is okay to beat their wives, and aren't even charged with a crime. Some people possess a very ignorant perception of the relationship between men and women, and as a result of this perception, the women in their lives MAY be subject to abuse, domestic violence, or other forms of stripping her of her human rights.
That's why, in my opinion, it is extremely important to stress that there is no such superiority that men hold over women.

And in response to someone who cited the Qur'an as referring to men as the "maintainers" of women, then this is an invalid argument. God is our maintainer and is surely superior to us, but that's a false analogy. When a woman has professional career, as is common today, they aren't necessarily "maintained" by their men, so it is a question of every individual case. But when our parents get old and ill, and we are required to "maintain" them, this does not entail us superior.
"Maintaining" women is more of a burden on men than it is a claim to superiority!

Thanks for reading my response.

Jon R Haider

[NHGhauth]

Assalamualaykum warahmatullahi wabarakatuh

Dear Shaheen,

Men and women are never equal as one man equals two women, one man inherits twice of that of a woman and men are the leader of women.

What is the meaning of superior?

http://ardictionary.com/Superior/18927 gave 22 definitions of the word "superior' :-

1. More elevated in place or position; higher; upper; as, the superior limb of the sun; the superior part of an image.

You know Allah promised same rewards - He does not look at a person looks and gender but by the degree of eeman in the heart.

2. Higher in rank or office; more exalted in dignity; as, a superior officer; a superior degree of nobility.

You know Allah never state that men are more noble than women.

3. Higher or greater in excellence; surpassing others in the greatness, or value of any quality; greater in quality or degree; as, a man of superior merit; or of superior bravery.

You know that Allah has said that men has better merit than women.

4. Beyond the power or influence of; too great or firm to be subdued or affected by; with to.

Allah never said that influence of women are sometimes greater than that of men. E.g. Helen of Troy and Cleopatra.

5. More comprehensive; as a term in classification; as, a genus is superior to a species.

This is tricky. You know for sure that leadership yes men are above women but, leaders must be men of eeman, not your ordinary men in the street.

9. One who is above, or surpasses, another in rank, station, office, age, ability, or merit; one who surpasses in what is desirable; as, Addison has no superior as a writer of pure English.

You know that Allah never declare men are above women in anything at all.

14. the head of a religious community

You know that this is true but compulsorily must be men of eeman.

15. one of greater rank or station or quality

You know that Allah only says in leadership men are above women but Islam stated this is for also for men of eeman.

16. a combatant who is able to defeat rivals

You know that in these modern days, there are women who are superior to men in this regard.

20. of high or superior quality or performance; "superior wisdom derived from experience"; "superior math students"

You know that In view of today's context, the best students are women.

Definition 6, 7, 8, 10, 11, 12, 13, 17, 18, 19, 21 and 22 are irrelevant to the context.

Actually, for you to win this is for you to cite the fitrah of men an women. The rights of mothers on their children, in some ways 3 times more than men as fathers. The rights of maintenance over their male relatives. The right for them to hoard money, men must spend women keep for themselves. The mutaah (compensation for divorce), etc. Please find out about this to win the debate.

Good luck and wassalam.

[Shia Shahid]

I do not consider women "inferior" to men (contrary to the words of some intolerant sisters on these forums), however I do not think women are the equals of men in every way, nor should they be.

There are obviously some skills where women excel men and others where men excel women. Also different behaviors and thought patterns. What seems perfectly logical to a man will often come across offensive or selfish to a woman.

What's more, you have the whole logic vs. emotion thing. And guys, if you don't believe me, just TRY charming a woman with logic, or try to get her on your side by arguing with LOGIC, you won't get anywhere. But if you can appeal to her emotions or even her nafs with subtlety and suggestive talk, she is soon putty in your hands. Whereas men can EASILY be convinced with logic as long as it's straightforward and honest, and you don't have to talk all charming to get them to agree with you.

What's more, as for that whole "lots of women in hell" hadith, while I don't like that hadith, it's hard to disprove its authenticity. However, it does NOT mean women are worse or that your gender is what dooms you to punishment. Far from it. There are a few different versions of the hadith, according to which the women of Hell are either ungrateful to their husbands, or curse too much, or slander and backbite a lot. That is the reason for them being in hell, they have wronged others. NOT because they are women.

[7azeenah87]

Salam Alakum

Could it be because men are the providers for the women. For example the husband is to provide his wife with all the needs i.e. shelter, food, and other needs that come along. I personally can't see how it could be a bad thing if it is Allah (swt) who stated it, the verse can have many meanings and we are limited (knowledge wise). I don't really think the verse gives the man "power" to control the women like some may see it, I believe it wouldnt be fair if they women doesnt have a say in her life so to say. Maybe thats why she looked at the verse in a negative way?

I am sure the scholars have already discussed it...

Allah ya3lam

Wasalam

[IraqLives1]

7azeenah87, on 30 January 2010 - 09:22 PM, said:

Salam Alakum

Could it be because men are the providers for the women. For example the husband is to provide his wife with all the needs i.e. shelter, food, and other needs that come along. I personally can't see how it could be a bad thing if it is Allah (swt) who stated it, the verse can have many meanings and we are limited (knowledge wise). I don't really think the verse gives the man "power" to control the women like some may see it, I believe it wouldnt be fair if they women doesnt have a say in her life so to say. Maybe thats why she looked at the verse in a negative way?

I am sure the scholars have already discussed it...

Allah ya3lam

Wasalam

Agreed.

However, I beleive men have deficencies that may not be a deficeceincy for a woman..and vice versa.

[kaneez fizza]

[quote name='askari muslim' date='31 July 2009 - 08:40 PM' timestamp='1249053001' post='1938068']

[u]Final Proof[/u]
You know that women have been oppressed from old ages not men.If women were superior to men in intellect or strength than they would have oppressed men.Opression on women is the biggest proof that they are physically and mentally weak than men.


Salaam
The most pious of men were the Imams and they are referred to as Mazloom or oppressed.It is better in the eyes of Allah to be oppressed than be an oppressor.Men and women have different  roles.Allah has women with kindness,grace and jamaal,while men are endowed with jalaal.You cannot compare a ladle with a fork. Men and women have complementing roles in life.
Allah knows best.

[ali the lion]

Equal, same, superior, inferior, higher, lower are all confusing words to compare men and women by a mortal being, can only be judged by Allah. Different is the most correct word.

[mattbrowne]

I'd like to point out that 45 out of the 46 human chromosomes are the same between men and women. The male brain contains about 100 billion neurons with about 10000 connections each. The female brain contains about 100 billion neurons with about 10000 connections each. The male cerebral cortex contains about 11 billion neurons with about 10000 connections each. The female cerebral cortex contains about 11 billion neurons with about 10000 connections each. By comparison the cerebral cortex of a cat contains 300 million neurons.

Let's not overestimate the differences between men and women.

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Education is key as a holistic, transparent, dialog-oriented process --Queen Rania Al Abdullah
Great minds discuss ideas. Average minds discuss events. Small minds discuss people --Eleanor Roosevelt