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Are Ismaili muslims?


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#101 Shia Shahid

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Posted 03 February 2010 - 03:49 PM

(salam)

Well back to the original topic: Ismailis. I don't meant this as any sort of fitna or sectarianism, but Ismailis in general have several beliefs that put them out of Islam.

1. Reincarnation
2. Their "Imam" can make anything halal or haraam that he wants, drinking, gambling, betting on horse races, they will still follow him and give him their money
3. They don't consider the Qur'an valid for all times
4. Various Ismaili groups don't seem to cohesively agree on Salat, Hajj, fasting, etc. but most alter them or do not practice them.
5. Many of the things they say about their "Imams" or Aga Khans border on shirk. And I mean real shirk, not the Wahhabi definition of shirk. He is like a cult Guru for them.
6. Numerology and other un-Islamic superstitions, everything (including prophets and Imams) comes in cycles of seven. So there is the potential for more prophets in their "future"! (Audhobillah...)

Here's something interesting I came across: once I was introduced to a guy who was supposedly Shia Muslim, but he said "however, I am Agha Khani". So I was like "I am Ithna Ashari" and then he got this half-confused, half-disgusted look on his face, as if he didn't know what REAL Shia are, and at the same time he was suspicious.

Now today the Ismailis are harmless, I'm not accusing them of betraying the Ummah or helping zionists or what have you. They mostly keep to themselves and have their own communities and networks. BUT, I doubt if we can call them Muslims even by a very loose definition. And they have no cohesive fiqh or qur'an sciences, they follow some very strange interpretations of Qur'an much like Bahais, Ahmadiyyas, and some extreme Sufi sects.
If at any time you find yourself admiring your own appearance, wealth, intelligence, or power, STOP and admire and worship Allah instead, for it was none but He that created you so, and put you there amidst all that you "have", and just for that He is worthy of all our gratefulness.

#102 macintoshtoffy

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Posted 03 February 2010 - 08:14 PM

View PostShia Shahid, on 03 February 2010 - 03:49 PM, said:

(salam)

Well back to the original topic: Ismailis. I don't meant this as any sort of fitna or sectarianism, but Ismailis in general have several beliefs that put them out of Islam.

1. Reincarnation
2. Their "Imam" can make anything halal or haraam that he wants, drinking, gambling, betting on horse races, they will still follow him and give him their money
3. They don't consider the Qur'an valid for all times
4. Various Ismaili groups don't seem to cohesively agree on Salat, Hajj, fasting, etc. but most alter them or do not practice them.
5. Many of the things they say about their "Imams" or Aga Khans border on shirk. And I mean real shirk, not the Wahhabi definition of shirk. He is like a cult Guru for them.
6. Numerology and other un-Islamic superstitions, everything (including prophets and Imams) comes in cycles of seven. So there is the potential for more prophets in their "future"! (Audhobillah...)

Here's something interesting I came across: once I was introduced to a guy who was supposedly Shia Muslim, but he said "however, I am Agha Khani". So I was like "I am Ithna Ashari" and then he got this half-confused, half-disgusted look on his face, as if he didn't know what REAL Shia are, and at the same time he was suspicious.

Now today the Ismailis are harmless, I'm not accusing them of betraying the Ummah or helping zionists or what have you. They mostly keep to themselves and have their own communities and networks. BUT, I doubt if we can call them Muslims even by a very loose definition. And they have no cohesive fiqh or qur'an sciences, they follow some very strange interpretations of Qur'an much like Bahais, Ahmadiyyas, and some extreme Sufi sects.

I understand some of your concerns but one also remember that the dogma that exists in both Sunni and Shia was formulated after Muhammad's death; the nature of the Qur'an, the nature of reality and so on. It would be incredibly unfair, therefore to 'kick' the Ismalis out on the contention that their practices don't line up with ones own. One should remember before passing judgement that it is plurality within the Ummah which gives it strength and as so long as Muslims respect each others views (within reason of course - views that result in violence aren't acceptable). The way I interpret the Qur'an would be totally different to the way you do but that doesn't make my interpretation any less valid just as your interpretation isn't any less valid from my point of view.

#103 Shia Shahid

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Posted 04 February 2010 - 03:56 PM

View Postmacintoshtoffy, on 03 February 2010 - 08:14 PM, said:

I understand some of your concerns but one also remember that the dogma that exists in both Sunni and Shia was formulated after Muhammad's death; the nature of the Qur'an, the nature of reality and so on. It would be incredibly unfair, therefore to 'kick' the Ismalis out on the contention that their practices don't line up with ones own. One should remember before passing judgement that it is plurality within the Ummah which gives it strength and as so long as Muslims respect each others views (within reason of course - views that result in violence aren't acceptable). The way I interpret the Qur'an would be totally different to the way you do but that doesn't make my interpretation any less valid just as your interpretation isn't any less valid from my point of view.

Perhaps you have a good point, but when Ismailis twist the interpretation of the Qur'an verses to refer to the Fatimids or their own Agha Khans, that just starts to sound ridiculous. What's more, despite there being different "interpretations" of the Qur'an, really the only valid ones were those of the Prophet (saw) and the Ahlul bayt, who learned it from him. If you invent your own interpretation without proof, you are pretty much jumping into Hell-fire.

Now I'm OBVIOUSLY not calling for persecution or anything of the sort. What practical difference does it make if Ismailis are "kicked out"? They're free to live their secret lives. They are not exactly seeking unity with the rest of Islam the way Shias and some Sunnis are seeking mutual unity. They are a much more closed-off community. They don't give much importance to fasting, Hajj, etc. they act like heaven and hell are not real but metaphors for this world, they belive in reincarnation... WHAT PART OF THIS CAN BE CALLED ISLAMIC? Just because they claim to believe in 6 or 7 of the 12 imams, they are Shia Muslims? Well sorry, their BELIEFS are totally different from what the Imams themselves taught! Having some Imams does not means you share their beliefs or creed, look how Christians made Jesus into a god, did he believe in any of what they believe? Or was his name simply co-opted and abused???

Furthermore, Ismailis make the Agha Khan a central tenet of their faith, whatever happened to Allah and His messenger? Everything is centered around the current billionaire Agha Khan and his every desire. It's a big clue as to where Ahmadiyyas and Bahais got the inspiration for their own guru-worship. The Qur'an is not the measure (al-furqaan) for these people; it's simply a tool to be twisted and used to justify their own invented customs.

BTW, I also admit that some Shia traditions and a LOT of Sunni traditions are bid'ahs and not authentic, however we rarely see the Qur'an being distorted to justify any of them. For example no Shia ever claims that the term "al-Haqqah" in the Qur'an refers to matam and qama zani in Ashura! No Shia ever says "Imam Husayn is The Truth" like the Christians do with Isa (as). But Ismailis take a lot of verses out of context to imply cycles of 7, further prophets still to come, and their Aga Khans. They even interpret Sura al-Nasr to refer to Agha Khans as "the divine aid" (Nasr-Allah)

So as it stands, it's very PROBLEMATIC to consider them Muslims, I don't deny that SOME Ismailis may be close to Islam, they don't all think the same way after all, but the general Ismaili creed is in many ways diametrically opposed to Islam. Once again, I'm no fan of takfir, but consider that with their invention of their own ways and adoption of many non-Muslim beliefs as their own official doctrine, they have pretty much takfir-ed themselves.
If at any time you find yourself admiring your own appearance, wealth, intelligence, or power, STOP and admire and worship Allah instead, for it was none but He that created you so, and put you there amidst all that you "have", and just for that He is worthy of all our gratefulness.

#104 JimJam

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Posted 05 February 2010 - 03:48 AM

View PostShia Shahid, on 03 February 2010 - 03:49 PM, said:

(salam)

Well back to the original topic: Ismailis. I don't meant this as any sort of fitna or sectarianism, but Ismailis in general have several beliefs that put them out of Islam.

1. Reincarnation
2. Their "Imam" can make anything halal or haraam that he wants, drinking, gambling, betting on horse races, they will still follow him and give him their money
3. They don't consider the Qur'an valid for all times
4. Various Ismaili groups don't seem to cohesively agree on Salat, Hajj, fasting, etc. but most alter them or do not practice them.
5. Many of the things they say about their "Imams" or Aga Khans border on shirk. And I mean real shirk, not the Wahhabi definition of shirk. He is like a cult Guru for them.
6. Numerology and other un-Islamic superstitions, everything (including prophets and Imams) comes in cycles of seven. So there is the potential for more prophets in their "future"! (Audhobillah...)

Here's something interesting I came across: once I was introduced to a guy who was supposedly Shia Muslim, but he said "however, I am Agha Khani". So I was like "I am Ithna Ashari" and then he got this half-confused, half-disgusted look on his face, as if he didn't know what REAL Shia are, and at the same time he was suspicious.

Now today the Ismailis are harmless, I'm not accusing them of betraying the Ummah or helping zionists or what have you. They mostly keep to themselves and have their own communities and networks. BUT, I doubt if we can call them Muslims even by a very loose definition. And they have no cohesive fiqh or qur'an sciences, they follow some very strange interpretations of Qur'an much like Bahais, Ahmadiyyas, and some extreme Sufi sects.


So I came across this prayer of theirs

An Ismaili Prayer and Ginan to the current Imam


Our Lord Nur Mawlana Shah,

Karim al-Husayni Hazar Imam!

We humble students pray to thee:

Give us your divine guidance to discharge our duties!

Give us the courage and strenght to obey the holy firmans!(1)

Our saviour,

have mercy upon us

and bless us with the holy Nurani Didar(2) in this world

and the next.



There is no salvation without our imam.

O ‘Ali! O ‘Ali! (3)

Better than written guidance, (4)

we have the living imam. (5)

O ‘Ali! O ‘Ali!

All-wise, omniscient, sinless.



The imam will give the kingdom to his followers

and they will rule until eternity.

Pay dashond

and obey his incarnation.

After these good deeds the soul attains salvation.

Pay your tithes to our teacher, the imam;

it will help you to secure salvation, bliss and happiness.

Without it you may be reborn 10,000 times.

O believers!

Pay your dues to our Lord accurately.

You will be doubly rewarded for all the things you offer.

O believers!

Come to the jamatkhana

and drink the water of purity.



While serving him devoutly

we recognize him as imam.

Only those who give all the dashond which they owe,

only those who sacrifice all they possess with love,

only they are the true believers.



He is true and just.

He is pure and sinless.

He is our gracious Lord,

sustainer of creation.

He is the judge of judgement,

the maker of us all.

Serve the imam,

we are his servants.

There is no salvation without the imam.

He is all in all.

O ‘Ali!



O Karim al-Husayni! Forgive our sines. Ameen.

O Karim al-Husayni! Fulfil our wishes. Ameen.

O Karim al-Husayni! Remove our troubles. Ameen.

O Karim al-Husayni! Overcome the enemies of our faith. Ameen.

O Karim al-Husayni! Grant us a temporal and spiritual glimpse. Ameen.

O Karim al-Husayni! Grant us health for our sick. Ameen.

O Karim al-Husayni! Grant is goodness to know you and belive in you. Ameen.

O Karim al-Husayni! Keep us perfect in partaking in sukrit and in paying dashond. Ameen.

O Karim al-Husayni! Make the community prosperous by giving them long life, wealth and children. Ameen.

O Karim al-Husayni! Please bless those that give money generously. Ameen.



(1) These are the religious teachings of the imam which are binding upon all Ismailis. Only the firmans of the living imam or imam of the time are authoritative. This allows the imam of the time to adapt the faith to new times and situations without being hampered by tradition.

(2) This is the Ismaili hajj. Everyone should seek to see the imam both in person and spiritually.

(3) Every imam is Allah’s Noor which first manifested itself as Ali the first imam of this cycle. So every imam is Ali.

(4) This refers to the Koran.

This was taken from this site here



I guess they themselves conform what you said about them.
May Allah make them, and us too, true followers of the true Imams.

Posted Image

Imam Jafar Sadiq (as) said, "Why do you strut proudly on this earth? You can neither dent the ground or pierce the sky."
Goddamnit, you tell me, does this guy LOOK like a true successor to Imam Hussain (as) and Imam Sajjad (as)?? Not to me he doesn't.

He has neither their modesty, nor their humility. Imam Ali (as) during his reign as Khalifa used to wear a tattered shirt covered in patches, and used to speak out against the materialistic lifestyle of his citizens,the Imams lived lived among the people, so much so that in the end the Abbasids had to put them under house arrest to try and separate them from the public.
But their Fatmids "imams" during their reign lived in luxury & isolation, by the Ismailis own narration of history, giving only glimpses of themselves to only their most fanatical & dedicated followers
Nagar Nagar
Gali Gali

Ali! Ali!
Ali! Ali!

#105 Shia Shahid

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Posted 09 February 2010 - 08:57 PM

View PostJimJam, on 05 February 2010 - 03:48 AM, said:


Posted Image

Imam Jafar Sadiq (as) said, "Why do you strut proudly on this earth? You can neither dent the ground or pierce the sky."
Goddamnit, you tell me, does this guy LOOK like a true successor to Imam Hussain (as) and Imam Sajjad (as)?? Not to me he doesn't.

He has neither their modesty, nor their humility. Imam Ali (as) during his reign as Khalifa used to wear a tattered shirt covered in patches, and used to speak out against the materialistic lifestyle of his citizens,the Imams lived lived among the people, so much so that in the end the Abbasids had to put them under house arrest to try and separate them from the public.
But their Fatmids "imams" during their reign lived in luxury & isolation, by the Ismailis own narration of history, giving only glimpses of themselves to only their most fanatical & dedicated followers

You make a GREAT point brother. They are a shirk cult, and their leader is a wealth-flaunting guru like Benny Hinn or L. Ron Hubbard. Look at the Scientologists' videos of their speeches in their "celebrity center", everything there is gold-plated and shiny, it's all about greed. And the GURU is their object of worship. Not God. They don't have a fixed, unchangeable holy text, no Qur'an, no sunnah, it's all about their GURU and whatever he says goes, and he gets 1/4 of all their earnings for his PERSONAL use. If the Agha Khan is so "charitable" as his Ismaili cultists claim, he should sell all that fancy clothing and furniture, and give the money to the poor. He should help those suffering in Palestine, not try to be all buddy-buddy with Reagan and Bush, living in US Embassies and State Department-owned mansions.

He talks empty talk about peace and spirituality, but never has the beizehs to criticize international Zionism.
If at any time you find yourself admiring your own appearance, wealth, intelligence, or power, STOP and admire and worship Allah instead, for it was none but He that created you so, and put you there amidst all that you "have", and just for that He is worthy of all our gratefulness.

#106 s.a.b

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Posted 17 March 2010 - 07:31 PM

are Ismailis and kadiani same??? if not then who are kadianis?

(wasalam)
Every day is Ashura and every land is Karbala


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#107 JawzofDETH

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Posted 18 March 2010 - 04:03 PM

View Posts.a.b, on 17 March 2010 - 07:31 PM, said:

are Ismailis and kadiani same??? if not then who are kadianis?

(wasalam)

No, Qadianis believe in a false prophet after khatamin-nabiyeen Muhammad (pbuh),
therefore they are not muslims.

Isma'ilis on the otherhand, some are muslims and some have heretical beliefs.
So it depends.

Was-Salaam

Depiction of Black (Safavid) Shi'ism below:

Posted Image

Causing the beauty to whither, making the ugly into slaves.
Corrupting and destroying all (good and evil) in it's path.
The progeny of Kufah and their legacy.

NEVER AGAIN!


#108 89jghur32

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Posted 18 March 2010 - 04:05 PM

Qadianis are an off-shoot of Sunni Islam.  I don't know much about them.
Imam Muhammad al-Baqir (as) said, "Refrain from deliberating in Allah. Rather when you desire to contemplate over His greatness, contemplate over the greatness of His creation."

#109 Fakhruddin

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Posted 18 March 2010 - 11:03 PM

QUR’AN AND ISMA‘ILI TA’WIL


Qur’an is divine but its interpretation is human and hence there have been different interpretations of various Qur’anic verses. The differences in interpretation of the Qur’anic verses was not a later development but began shortly after the death of the Holy Prophet (pbuh). Different prominent companions of the Prophet began to differ from each other and with the passage of time these differences also deepened in their scope. There were various reasons for these differences. First and foremost was of course the differences due to understanding. Any text, and much more so the divine text which also tends to be symbolic, is understood depending on ones own mental and intellectual capacity. Also, the understanding of these verses depends on ones own personal or family background; the tribal background and the community ethos also would play an important role.

The Muslims were also embroiled in political disputes with the passage of time and these disputes also got reflected in interpretation of the Qur’anic verses. The disputing parties tried to legitimise their respective positions through either hadith or interpretation of the Qur’anic verses which suited their position. Also, many sects came into existence in the early period of Islam itself and every sect tried to prove its authenticity by interpreting the Qur’anic verses in keeping with their doctrines. The formation and doctrinal differences of these have been dealt with in various early books like Al-Farq bayn al-Firaq of Baghdadi and others. Each of these sects tried to interpret various Qur’anic verses in their own way. And it became impossible to resolve both political as well as doctrinal differences. There also evolved differences between the jurists (fuqaha’). These jurists also interpreted the Qur’anic verses in keeping with their understanding of juristic issues. Thus within the Sunni Islam there developed four major schools of fiqh (jurisprudence). The same is true of hadith literature with which we will deal with in another paper.

Among other reasons for different interpretations of the Qur’anic verses the sectarian differences play most important and interesting role. In fact it will be no exaggeration to say that among other reasons the sectarian differences played very significant role in differing interpretation of the Qur’anic verses. And among other sectarian differences the differences between Sunnis and Shi‘as assumed much more controversial role. No other two sects of Islam have differed as much as the Sunnis and Shi‘as in understanding and interpretation of certain Qur’anic verses. It was on account of this that the Sunni corpus of hadith developed separately from that of Shi‘as.

The Shi‘as also subsequently sub-divided into number of subsects the main division being between the Ithna Asharis and Isma‘ilis. The Isma‘ilis developed their own independent interpretation of the Qur’anic verses which radically differs from not only the Sunni interpretation but also the mainstream Shi‘a interpretation. It is the Isma‘ili interpretation that we would deal with in this paper. We have broadly referred to the Isma‘ili doctrines in one of our earlier papers. We would briefly summarise it here for ready reference of our readers.

The Isma‘ilis branched off from the Ithna Ashari Shi‘as on the question of succession to the fifth (and according to the Ithna Asharis the sixth) Imam Ja‘far al-Sadiq. It should be noted that the doctrine of imamah is very central to the Shi‘a Islam as the doctrine of Khilafah is to the Sunni Islam. According to the Shi‘a belief the imam must belong to the progeny of Fatima and ‘Ali and thus son will always succeed the father. This doctrine remains central whichever the Shi‘a sect. And most of the differences among the Shi‘a sub-sects, though not always, have been on the question of succession as to which son succeeded the previous Imam.

The Hanafiyas believed that It was Ali’s son Muhammad bin Hanifa who succeeded as Imam. Similarly the Zaidi Shi‘as believed that it was Zaid, the son of Imam Zain al-Abidin who succeeded him. The Zaidi Shi‘as are found mostly in the Yemen. Similarly, the Isma‘ili Shi‘as believe that it was Isma‘il who succeeded Imam J‘afar al-Sadiq whereas the Ithna Asharis believe that it was Musa Kazim who became imam after Imam Ja‘far al-Sadiq. The chain of imamah as far as the Ithna Asharis are concerned stopped with the seclusion of the 12th imam whose reappearance is awaited by them. And as far as the Isma‘ilis are concerned the office of imama continued in the progeny of Isma‘il and the 21st imam Taiyyib went into seclusion. But unlike the Ithna Asharis the Isma‘ilis do not believe that 21st imam will reappear; they, on the other hand, believe that the imama continues in his progeny and that the imam of the time from his progeny will appear one day. It is also to be noted that the Isma‘ilis also split on the question of succession of imama after Imam Mustansir billah. A section of the Isma‘ilis believed that Mustansir had nominated his younger son Must‘ali as his successor and the other section believed that Nizar, his elder son, was nominated as Mustansir’s successor. And Imam Taiyyib belongs to the Must‘alian stream.

Here in this paper we will be dealing mainly with the interpretation of the Qur’an by the Isma‘ilis before the split between the Musta‘lians and the Nizaris. The Druzes are also basically Isma‘ilis and we will deal with Druzes in a separate paper. The Druzes split off from the Isma‘ilis after the death of Imam Hakim. The Druzes developed their own interpretation of the Qur’an which again radically differs from the mainstream Isma‘ilis.

The Isma‘ilis, like all other Shi‘as believe in the hidden meaning of the Qur’an which they refer to as ta’wil. In the tafsir literature of Sunni Islam the words tafsir and ta’wil are used almost synonymously. But in the Shi‘a Islam both have distinct meaning. Tafsir in Shi‘a Islam refers to the manifest meaning of the Qur’an and ta’wil refers to its hidden meaning. The Sunnis and Shi‘as differ on the meaning of the sixth verse of the chapter three i.e. the chapter on “Ali Imran”. According to the Sunni commentators this verse means that “None knows its interpretation (ta’wil i.e. the hidden meaning) save Allah and the rasikhun fi’ al‘ilm (i.e. those firmly rooted in knowledge) say: We believe in it, it is all from our Lord.” Thus according to the Sunni commentators of the Qur’an Allah alone has the knowledge of ta’wil and the Rasikhun fi’ al-‘ilm (i.e. the great ‘Ulama) do not possess that knowledge and they only believe that it is known only to Allah.

The Shi‘ahs, on the other hand, believe that the knowledge of ta’wil is possessed by the al-rasikhun fi’ al-‘ilm also and these rasikhun in ‘ilm are nothing but the imams from the progeny of Fatima and ‘Ali. Not only Allah but the holy Prophet (pbuh), his legatee (wasi) and imams from his progeny also possess the knowledge of ta’wil. Now the most important question is what is this ta’wil?. In the Isma‘ili literature it is also referred to as ‘ilm al-ladunni which passes orally from Prophet to his wasi and from wasi to imam and from one imam to another.

But if we go historically then one finds the exposition of ta’wil literature much later i.e. during the Abbasid period, in fact, after the controversy about the appointment of Isma‘il and the subsequent split in the Shi‘a community. The hidden meaning of the Qur’anic verses is attempted by the Isma‘ili imams and da‘is (i.e. missionaries and summoners to the Isma‘ili faith) after the spread of Greek knowledge in the Islamic world. We have already written about The Rasa’il Ikhwanus Safa i.e. the Epistles of the Brethren of Purity in a separate paper. These epistles are of great importance in the Isma‘ili literature. These epistles though do not attempt exposition of ta’wil systematically but do contain elements of it and could be taken as the beginning of the exposition of the discipline of ta’wil. Its fifty-third epistle supposedly deals with this.

The Isma‘ili da‘is particularly Saiyyidna Yaqub al-Sijistani, Saiyyidna Ja‘far Mansur al-Yaman, Saiyyidna Qadi al-Nu‘man, Saiyyidna Hamiduddin Kirmani, Saiyyidna Muayyad Shirazi, Saiyyidna Hatim and several others have played great role in developing this unique discipline. It will be no exaggeration to say that ‘ilm al-ta’wil is really unique to the Isma‘ili sect and it was a grand attempt to synthesise the all available knowledge of the time - particularly the Greek knowledge popularised by the Abbasids through translations of the Greek classics into Arabic - with the Islamic teachings.

Of course the Isma‘ilis believe that the ‘ilm of ta’wil did not develop with the popularisation of the Greek knowledge but is part of the ‘ilm al-nubuwwat (i.e. the Prophetic knowledge) passed on from imam to imam as referred to earlier. But historically speaking we do not find its record before the Epistles of Ikhwanus Safa were compiled. One can say that this knowledge of ta’wil among the Isma‘ilis was reduced to writing only when faced with the challenge of the Greek knowledge. Ash‘aris among the Sunnis met this challenge by totally opposing the Greek philosophy (though using its tools to refute it) while the Isma‘ilis among the Shi‘as met this challenge by attempting a creative synthesis of the Greek knowledge including its cosmogony with the basic teachings of Islam. Thus the Ash‘aris and the Isma‘ilis carved out different ways of meeting the challenge of the Greek philosophy and its great impact on the Islamic world. This impact should not be underrated.

The Ismai‘ili ta’wil is based on reason. The word ta’wil in Arabic means to go to the first, primary or basic meaning of the word. According to the Isma‘ilis each and every verse of the Qur’an has basic meaning or hidden meaning apart from the manifest or secondary meaning. According to them a mu’min is one who knows and believes in the hidden or original meaning (batin) of the Qur’anic verses. The Isma‘ilis maintain that there is difference between a Muslim and a Mu’min. One who recites the kalima and performs all the manifest rituals (zahiri) like offering prayers, fasting, giving zakat, performing haj etc. is a Muslim. But a mu’min is more than being a Muslim. A Mu’min is one who not only performs the zahiri rituals but also believes in batin, the real, the original, the intended, meaning of these rituals.

The Isma‘ilis quote the verse 14 of the chapter 49 which reads as follows: “The dwellers of the desert say: We believe (amanna). Say: You believe not, but say, We submit (aslamna); and faith (iman) has not yet entered into your hearts.” Thus this verse, the Isma‘ili theologians point out, clearly makes distinction between Islam and Iman, between those who submit (Muslims) and those who believe Mu’min. Iman, according to them is not mere acceptance of what is manifest zahir but sincere belief in batin (the hidden, the original).

Before we proceed further it is necessary to throw light on what is batin or what is the way ta’wil is done? It is also important to note that ordinary people are not supposed to know the original meaning or the ta’wil. It is only the chosen few or the initiated who are entitled to know. The contents of ta’wil was kept a strictly guided secret even from ordinary believers. The reason was obvious. The Isma‘ilis were looked upon as heretics by the orthodox Muslims. Imam Ghazali also wrote a book on Batinis and condemned them. They were accused of believing in hulul and tanasukh i.e. belief in Imam being God and transmigration of souls though it is not true. Even Dr. Kamil Husain, who was chairman of the department of Isma‘ili Studies, Al-Azhar, Cairo, strongly refuted such allegations. But the Isma‘ilis were greatly misunderstood about their real beliefs.

The Isma‘ilis, for fear of such condemnations had to hide from general Muslims their beliefs in batini theology and reveal it only to the chosen or initiated few. The knowledge of batin was revealed to a person only after ensuring his/her sincerity and faithfulness. Even today the ordinary Bohras do not have any knowledge of ta’wil though there is no such fear as it prevailed in those days from the Sunni orthodox ‘ulama.

According to the Isma‘ilis there is whole ideal system called mathal and here on earth there is a corresponding system called mamthul (representative of the ideal). To understand this it is necessary to know that Allah is a totally transcendent Being who cannot be comprehended by human mind at all. He transcends everything conceivable and is just incomprehensible. He has no attributes whatsoever. He is also not actively involved in creation of the universe. He only created the ‘uqul (intellects made of pure light). The intellects are fine beings made of light. The matter, as opposed to light, is kathif (i.e. heavy and dark) Allah or the Ultimate Being has no role in creation of matter. He is referred to by Saiyyidna Yaqub al-Sijistani as Mubd‘i al-Mubdi‘at (i.e. the Creator of the creators. His role ceased with creation of the ‘Uqul (i.e. the Intellects). Allah created only light, not darkness. One cannot attribute creation of darkness and kathafat (heaviness) to Him.

Matter was created by the tenth Intellect also called ‘ashir-i-mudabbir (i.e. the Tenth Intellect managing the universe). All the matter representing kathafat (heaviness and darkness). Since the Tenth Intellect (‘Ashir-e-Mudabbir) is responsible for creation of matter and this universe it is his responsibility to reconvert this darkness and heaviness into light (nur). The corresponding being on earth to the Tenth Intellect is the Prophet. Thus the Prophet is the mamthul of ‘Ashir-e-Mudabbir on earth. He assists him (i.e. the Tenth Intellect) in transforming the kathafat (darkness and heaviness) into latafat (nur).

The Prophet shows the right path to the people and has been described by the Qur’an as sirajan munirah (i.e. the lighted lamp) for this reason. He transforms the human beings into light (nur). After the Prophet it is the Imam who performs this function. And as there cannot be any Prophet after Muhammad (pbuh), he is succeeded by Imams from the progeny of Fatima, his daughter and ‘Ali, her husband. According to the Isma‘ili beliefs this earth can never remain without Imam, a spiritual guide, an active agent (mamthul of Ashir-e-Mudabbir) on earth. An Isma‘ili da‘i wrote an epistle Ithbat-ul-Imamah to prove this.

Thus Imam on earth is the representative of the Tenth Intellect and hence commands highest respect of the believers. He has all the attributes of the Tenth Intellect and since Allah has no attributes (He transcends all attributes and is beyond them), these attributes apply to the Tenth Intellect. Therefore Imam who is mamthul of the Tenth Intellect on earth also has these attributes on earth. It is this theory of attributes which was misunderstood by the opponents of the Fatimi Imams as the belief in hulul i.e. descent of God into the person of Imam. Dr.Kamil Husain has discussed this in detail in his Muqaddimah (introduction) to the Diwan of Saiyyidna Mua’yyad Shirazi. The person of Imam does not correspond to Allah but to the Tenth Intellect, as pointed out above.

The Isma‘ilis (also referred to as the Fatimids or those following the Fatimi Da‘wah) also believe in the cyclical theory of history. Since it is the duty of the Tenth Intellect to covert total darkness and kathafat in the universe into light in every cycle of history a portion of darkness is reconverted into light and these cycles will continue until entire matter is reconverted into mur (light) and there is no more kathafat in this universe.

In every cycle an Adam is created and the chain of prophethood ends with the last Prophet who is in turn succeeded by imams and lastly, in every cycle there appears what is known as Qa’im al-qiyamah (i.e. one who brings about the Day of Judgement, the Qiyamat). The cycle ends with the Qa’im al-Qiyamah and a definite portion of dark matter is converted into light in that cycle. Thus, according to this theory, these cycles will continue until there is no more matter in this universe and all matter there in is transformed into latafat i.e. light and it is light which will ultimately prevail. This, in short, is the Isma‘ili cyclical theory of history of this universe.

Some of the important books of ta’wil and batini ‘ulum are the Kitab al-Shawahid wa al-Bayan of Saiyyidna Mansur al-Yaman, Ta’wil al-Da‘a’im of Saiyyidna Qadi al-Nu‘man Rahat al-‘Aql by Saiyyidna Hamiduddin Kirmani, Al-Majalis of Saiyyidna Mua’yyad Shirazi etc. These books contain the highest achievements of the Isma‘ili or Fatimi missionaries as far as the knowledge of batin is concerned. We will give some examples of ‘ilm al-ta’wil from these books.

Saiyyidna Qadi al-Nu‘man who compiled the celebrated book of Isma‘ili jurisprudence Al-Da‘a’im al-Islam, also compiled Ta’wil al-Da‘a’im. In this latter work Qadi Nu‘man describes the original meanings of all the elements of shari‘ah and all the related rituals. Qadi N‘uman first emphasises that a true believer has to strike balance between the zahir and batin i.e. what is manifest and what is original intent of the shari‘ah rituals. Qadi Nu’man had to lay this emphasis on the balance between zahir and batin because some extremists among the Isma‘ilis had declared that the shari‘ah is suspended (ta‘til al-shari‘ah) and it is no more necessary to observe the external rituals for those who know ‘ilm al-batin. The Qaramitah, an extremist sect of the Isma‘ilis had ceased to observe the zahiri shari‘ah. The Nizaris later did the same thing.

The Isma‘ilis, as pointed out in an earlier paper, believe in seven pillars of Islam as opposed to other Muslims who believe in five pillars. The two additional pillars are walayah (the love of the family of the Prophet - ahl al-bayt) and taharah (cleanliness). Taharah really means spiritual cleanliness and removal of all spiritual pollutants. The Qadi describes in his Ta’wil al-Da‘a’im the hidden meaning of all the seven da‘a’im, (pillars) one by one.

The very first pillar according to the Isma‘ilis is walayat (love of the family of the Prophet). According to the Qadi each pillar represents one of the great prophets from Adam to Muhammad. Adam represents walayah. Adam was the first prophet whose walayah was made obligatory on the angels and the angels were made to prostrate before him or perform sajdah before him. Sajdah in reality implies obedience. And this is walayah. Adam is the first of all the prophets and his walayah is the walayah of all the succeeding prophets and imams. Those who do not have love of Adam cannot achieve salvation.

The second pillar, according to the Isma‘ili theology, is taharah (i.e. purity). The second prophet Nuh (Noah) represents taharah. Nuh was sent for purification of mankind. Whatever sins were committed during and after Adma’s time Nuh came to purify them and he is one of the great prophets, a prophet with his own shari‘ah. The flood water which is associated with Nuh, symbolises purity as water is needed for purity from dirt and water in batin means ‘ilm (knowledge of ultimate reality) and it is through knowledge that spiritual purity can be attained.

And the third pillar is Salah (i.e. prayer) and Qadi Nu‘man ascribes it to the Prophet Ibrahim. It is he who constructed Baytullah i.e. the House of Allah in Mecca and Allah made this House the Qiblah (i.e. the direction in which the Muslims turn to pray). Hazrat Ibrahim also has great status among the prophets and he is also described as hanif in the holy Qur’an i.e. one who is inclined towards truth.

And it is the prophet Musa who represents zakat. He is the first prophet who is said to have asked Pharaoh (Fir‘aun) to purify himself (tazakka (see the verse 79:16). Musa was the first prophet whom Allah called upon to preach to Fir‘aun purity of self (tazkiyah). Zakat has essentially to do with purification. It is through zakat that one purifies ones wealth by giving away one portion of it to the needy and poor.

The saum (fasting) is related to the prophet Isa (Christ). Saum in ta’wil actually means keeping silent about the batin (i.e. hidden truth of the injunctions of shari‘ah). It was Isa’s mother Mariyam (Mary) who was asked by Allah to say to her people that “I have vowed a fast to the Beneficient, so I will not speak to any man today.” (19:26). Thus it will be seen that in this verse fasting is directly related to keeping silent (about the knowledge of batin)

Similarly haj is related to the last of the prophets Muhammad (pbuh). It is he who first required Muslims to perform haj and expounded all its related manasik (i.e. rituals pertaining to haj). Though the Arabs used to perform haj before Islam but the manasik appointed by Allah in the Qur’an did not exist. Allah says about the pre-Islamic Arabs and their prayer near the Ka‘bah “And their prayer at the House is nothing but whistling and clapping of hands.” (8:35). And the disbelievers used to circumambulate around Ka‘bah in a state of nakedness. It is the holy Prophet who abolished such abominable practice. They had also installed idols all around Ka‘bah whom they used to worship. It is Prophet Muhammad who demolished these idols. He then appointed the rituals for the haj.

And the last of the pillars of Islam is jihad and it is related to the seventh of the chain of imams. The Isma‘ilis (or the Fatimids) give great importance to every seventh imam in the chain of Fatimi imams. The seventh imam is also called natiq (i.e. Speaker). Thus every seventh imam will speak with the permission of Allah about His injunctions and give them a new interpretation through his exertions or through waging war to purify His religion. The Qa’im al-Qiyamah, referred to above, will also be the seventh of the chain of imams and he will be the last of the seventh imams and through him the ummah will be unified on the shari‘ah of the Prophet Muhammad. Thus Prophet Muhammad has merit over all other prophets in the sense that two pillars of Islam - haj and jihad - have been related to him and his progeny.

Saiyyidna Qadi Al-Nu‘man in his Ta’wil al-Da‘a’im lays great stress on ‘ilm (knowledge). ‘Ilm is very fundamental to the Isma‘ili system. ‘Ilm is wazir (minister) to iman (faith). Faith draws sustenance through ‘ilm (knowledge). The Qadi says that ‘ilm applies to both zahir (manifest) and batin (hidden). Thus a mu’min becomes true person of faith through iman and ‘ilm. As the human body can be purified only by water, the soul of a mu’min can be purified only by knowledge. And as amwal (material wealth) cannot be given to undeserving persons or those weak of understanding (sufaha’ see verse 4:5), knowledge also cannot be imparted to those who do not deserve.

Thus one who has been favoured by Allah through knowledge, he should not impart it to undeserving persons. In other words the knowledge of batin can be imparted only to deserving persons whose iman (faith) is strong and unwavering and it will become even more stronger through such knowledge. But if it is imparted to undeserving person, his faith may be weakened and his doubts might increase. Also, one should not be miserly in imparting knowledge of ta’wil to deserving people and he should not be extravagant with the undeserving.

Prayer system (salah) in its essence means establishing the system of da‘wah. Wherever the Qur’an speaks of salah it does not say ‘read prayer’ but says ‘establish prayer’ (aqim al-salah) which in fact means establish the da‘wah headed by the imam who is, after the Prophet, the highest representative of the community of the faithfuls. As one is required to come to prayers at appropriate time, one is required to devote ones energy is establishing the da‘wah (mission) at suitable times and make all possible efforts for it. As the soul enriches itself through prayers, a faithful enriches one self by his/her efforts to establish the mission for the faithfuls.

In short these are some of the prominent features of the Isma‘ili ta’wil. In this brief essay we cannot do full justice to it. But an attempt has been made here to throw light on its essential features. The Fatimi Da‘is have written hundreds of books on this subject which are available to the scholars. This essay can only initiate those interested into the subject.

#110 JimJam

JimJam

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Posted 21 March 2010 - 10:13 AM

View PostFakhruddin, on 18 March 2010 - 11:03 PM, said:

QUR’AN AND ISMA‘ILI TA’WIL


Qur’an is divine but its interpretation is human and hence there have been different interpretations of various Qur’anic verses. The differences in interpretation of the Qur’anic verses was not a later development but began shortly after the death of the Holy Prophet (pbuh). Different prominent companions of the Prophet began to differ from each other and with the passage of time these differences also deepened in their scope. There were various reasons for these differences. First and foremost was of course the differences due to understanding. Any text, and much more so the divine text which also tends to be symbolic, is understood depending on ones own mental and intellectual capacity. Also, the understanding of these verses depends on ones own personal or family background; the tribal background and the community ethos also would play an important role.

The Muslims were also embroiled in political disputes with the passage of time and these disputes also got reflected in interpretation of the Qur’anic verses. The disputing parties tried to legitimise their respective positions through either hadith or interpretation of the Qur’anic verses which suited their position. Also, many sects came into existence in the early period of Islam itself and every sect tried to prove its authenticity by interpreting the Qur’anic verses in keeping with their doctrines. The formation and doctrinal differences of these have been dealt with in various early books like Al-Farq bayn al-Firaq of Baghdadi and others. Each of these sects tried to interpret various Qur’anic verses in their own way. And it became impossible to resolve both political as well as doctrinal differences. There also evolved differences between the jurists (fuqaha’). These jurists also interpreted the Qur’anic verses in keeping with their understanding of juristic issues. Thus within the Sunni Islam there developed four major schools of fiqh (jurisprudence). The same is true of hadith literature with which we will deal with in another paper.

Among other reasons for different interpretations of the Qur’anic verses the sectarian differences play most important and interesting role. In fact it will be no exaggeration to say that among other reasons the sectarian differences played very significant role in differing interpretation of the Qur’anic verses. And among other sectarian differences the differences between Sunnis and Shi‘as assumed much more controversial role. No other two sects of Islam have differed as much as the Sunnis and Shi‘as in understanding and interpretation of certain Qur’anic verses. It was on account of this that the Sunni corpus of hadith developed separately from that of Shi‘as.

The Shi‘as also subsequently sub-divided into number of subsects the main division being between the Ithna Asharis and Isma‘ilis. The Isma‘ilis developed their own independent interpretation of the Qur’anic verses which radically differs from not only the Sunni interpretation but also the mainstream Shi‘a interpretation. It is the Isma‘ili interpretation that we would deal with in this paper. We have broadly referred to the Isma‘ili doctrines in one of our earlier papers. We would briefly summarise it here for ready reference of our readers.

The Isma‘ilis branched off from the Ithna Ashari Shi‘as on the question of succession to the fifth (and according to the Ithna Asharis the sixth) Imam Ja‘far al-Sadiq. It should be noted that the doctrine of imamah is very central to the Shi‘a Islam as the doctrine of Khilafah is to the Sunni Islam. According to the Shi‘a belief the imam must belong to the progeny of Fatima and ‘Ali and thus son will always succeed the father. This doctrine remains central whichever the Shi‘a sect. And most of the differences among the Shi‘a sub-sects, though not always, have been on the question of succession as to which son succeeded the previous Imam.

The Hanafiyas believed that It was Ali’s son Muhammad bin Hanifa who succeeded as Imam. Similarly the Zaidi Shi‘as believed that it was Zaid, the son of Imam Zain al-Abidin who succeeded him. The Zaidi Shi‘as are found mostly in the Yemen. Similarly, the Isma‘ili Shi‘as believe that it was Isma‘il who succeeded Imam J‘afar al-Sadiq whereas the Ithna Asharis believe that it was Musa Kazim who became imam after Imam Ja‘far al-Sadiq. The chain of imamah as far as the Ithna Asharis are concerned stopped with the seclusion of the 12th imam whose reappearance is awaited by them. And as far as the Isma‘ilis are concerned the office of imama continued in the progeny of Isma‘il and the 21st imam Taiyyib went into seclusion. But unlike the Ithna Asharis the Isma‘ilis do not believe that 21st imam will reappear; they, on the other hand, believe that the imama continues in his progeny and that the imam of the time from his progeny will appear one day. It is also to be noted that the Isma‘ilis also split on the question of succession of imama after Imam Mustansir billah. A section of the Isma‘ilis believed that Mustansir had nominated his younger son Must‘ali as his successor and the other section believed that Nizar, his elder son, was nominated as Mustansir’s successor. And Imam Taiyyib belongs to the Must‘alian stream.

Here in this paper we will be dealing mainly with the interpretation of the Qur’an by the Isma‘ilis before the split between the Musta‘lians and the Nizaris. The Druzes are also basically Isma‘ilis and we will deal with Druzes in a separate paper. The Druzes split off from the Isma‘ilis after the death of Imam Hakim. The Druzes developed their own interpretation of the Qur’an which again radically differs from the mainstream Isma‘ilis.

The Isma‘ilis, like all other Shi‘as believe in the hidden meaning of the Qur’an which they refer to as ta’wil. In the tafsir literature of Sunni Islam the words tafsir and ta’wil are used almost synonymously. But in the Shi‘a Islam both have distinct meaning. Tafsir in Shi‘a Islam refers to the manifest meaning of the Qur’an and ta’wil refers to its hidden meaning. The Sunnis and Shi‘as differ on the meaning of the sixth verse of the chapter three i.e. the chapter on “Ali Imran”. According to the Sunni commentators this verse means that “None knows its interpretation (ta’wil i.e. the hidden meaning) save Allah and the rasikhun fi’ al‘ilm (i.e. those firmly rooted in knowledge) say: We believe in it, it is all from our Lord.” Thus according to the Sunni commentators of the Qur’an Allah alone has the knowledge of ta’wil and the Rasikhun fi’ al-‘ilm (i.e. the great ‘Ulama) do not possess that knowledge and they only believe that it is known only to Allah.

The Shi‘ahs, on the other hand, believe that the knowledge of ta’wil is possessed by the al-rasikhun fi’ al-‘ilm also and these rasikhun in ‘ilm are nothing but the imams from the progeny of Fatima and ‘Ali. Not only Allah but the holy Prophet (pbuh), his legatee (wasi) and imams from his progeny also possess the knowledge of ta’wil. Now the most important question is what is this ta’wil?. In the Isma‘ili literature it is also referred to as ‘ilm al-ladunni which passes orally from Prophet to his wasi and from wasi to imam and from one imam to another.

But if we go historically then one finds the exposition of ta’wil literature much later i.e. during the Abbasid period, in fact, after the controversy about the appointment of Isma‘il and the subsequent split in the Shi‘a community. The hidden meaning of the Qur’anic verses is attempted by the Isma‘ili imams and da‘is (i.e. missionaries and summoners to the Isma‘ili faith) after the spread of Greek knowledge in the Islamic world. We have already written about The Rasa’il Ikhwanus Safa i.e. the Epistles of the Brethren of Purity in a separate paper. These epistles are of great importance in the Isma‘ili literature. These epistles though do not attempt exposition of ta’wil systematically but do contain elements of it and could be taken as the beginning of the exposition of the discipline of ta’wil. Its fifty-third epistle supposedly deals with this.

The Isma‘ili da‘is particularly Saiyyidna Yaqub al-Sijistani, Saiyyidna Ja‘far Mansur al-Yaman, Saiyyidna Qadi al-Nu‘man, Saiyyidna Hamiduddin Kirmani, Saiyyidna Muayyad Shirazi, Saiyyidna Hatim and several others have played great role in developing this unique discipline. It will be no exaggeration to say that ‘ilm al-ta’wil is really unique to the Isma‘ili sect and it was a grand attempt to synthesise the all available knowledge of the time - particularly the Greek knowledge popularised by the Abbasids through translations of the Greek classics into Arabic - with the Islamic teachings.

Of course the Isma‘ilis believe that the ‘ilm of ta’wil did not develop with the popularisation of the Greek knowledge but is part of the ‘ilm al-nubuwwat (i.e. the Prophetic knowledge) passed on from imam to imam as referred to earlier. But historically speaking we do not find its record before the Epistles of Ikhwanus Safa were compiled. One can say that this knowledge of ta’wil among the Isma‘ilis was reduced to writing only when faced with the challenge of the Greek knowledge. Ash‘aris among the Sunnis met this challenge by totally opposing the Greek philosophy (though using its tools to refute it) while the Isma‘ilis among the Shi‘as met this challenge by attempting a creative synthesis of the Greek knowledge including its cosmogony with the basic teachings of Islam. Thus the Ash‘aris and the Isma‘ilis carved out different ways of meeting the challenge of the Greek philosophy and its great impact on the Islamic world. This impact should not be underrated.

The Ismai‘ili ta’wil is based on reason. The word ta’wil in Arabic means to go to the first, primary or basic meaning of the word. According to the Isma‘ilis each and every verse of the Qur’an has basic meaning or hidden meaning apart from the manifest or secondary meaning. According to them a mu’min is one who knows and believes in the hidden or original meaning (batin) of the Qur’anic verses. The Isma‘ilis maintain that there is difference between a Muslim and a Mu’min. One who recites the kalima and performs all the manifest rituals (zahiri) like offering prayers, fasting, giving zakat, performing haj etc. is a Muslim. But a mu’min is more than being a Muslim. A Mu’min is one who not only performs the zahiri rituals but also believes in batin, the real, the original, the intended, meaning of these rituals.

The Isma‘ilis quote the verse 14 of the chapter 49 which reads as follows: “The dwellers of the desert say: We believe (amanna). Say: You believe not, but say, We submit (aslamna); and faith (iman) has not yet entered into your hearts.” Thus this verse, the Isma‘ili theologians point out, clearly makes distinction between Islam and Iman, between those who submit (Muslims) and those who believe Mu’min. Iman, according to them is not mere acceptance of what is manifest zahir but sincere belief in batin (the hidden, the original).

Before we proceed further it is necessary to throw light on what is batin or what is the way ta’wil is done? It is also important to note that ordinary people are not supposed to know the original meaning or the ta’wil. It is only the chosen few or the initiated who are entitled to know. The contents of ta’wil was kept a strictly guided secret even from ordinary believers. The reason was obvious. The Isma‘ilis were looked upon as heretics by the orthodox Muslims. Imam Ghazali also wrote a book on Batinis and condemned them. They were accused of believing in hulul and tanasukh i.e. belief in Imam being God and transmigration of souls though it is not true. Even Dr. Kamil Husain, who was chairman of the department of Isma‘ili Studies, Al-Azhar, Cairo, strongly refuted such allegations. But the Isma‘ilis were greatly misunderstood about their real beliefs.

The Isma‘ilis, for fear of such condemnations had to hide from general Muslims their beliefs in batini theology and reveal it only to the chosen or initiated few. The knowledge of batin was revealed to a person only after ensuring his/her sincerity and faithfulness. Even today the ordinary Bohras do not have any knowledge of ta’wil though there is no such fear as it prevailed in those days from the Sunni orthodox ‘ulama.

According to the Isma‘ilis there is whole ideal system called mathal and here on earth there is a corresponding system called mamthul (representative of the ideal). To understand this it is necessary to know that Allah is a totally transcendent Being who cannot be comprehended by human mind at all. He transcends everything conceivable and is just incomprehensible. He has no attributes whatsoever. He is also not actively involved in creation of the universe. He only created the ‘uqul (intellects made of pure light). The intellects are fine beings made of light. The matter, as opposed to light, is kathif (i.e. heavy and dark) Allah or the Ultimate Being has no role in creation of matter. He is referred to by Saiyyidna Yaqub al-Sijistani as Mubd‘i al-Mubdi‘at (i.e. the Creator of the creators. His role ceased with creation of the ‘Uqul (i.e. the Intellects). Allah created only light, not darkness. One cannot attribute creation of darkness and kathafat (heaviness) to Him.

Matter was created by the tenth Intellect also called ‘ashir-i-mudabbir (i.e. the Tenth Intellect managing the universe). All the matter representing kathafat (heaviness and darkness). Since the Tenth Intellect (‘Ashir-e-Mudabbir) is responsible for creation of matter and this universe it is his responsibility to reconvert this darkness and heaviness into light (nur). The corresponding being on earth to the Tenth Intellect is the Prophet. Thus the Prophet is the mamthul of ‘Ashir-e-Mudabbir on earth. He assists him (i.e. the Tenth Intellect) in transforming the kathafat (darkness and heaviness) into latafat (nur).

The Prophet shows the right path to the people and has been described by the Qur’an as sirajan munirah (i.e. the lighted lamp) for this reason. He transforms the human beings into light (nur). After the Prophet it is the Imam who performs this function. And as there cannot be any Prophet after Muhammad (pbuh), he is succeeded by Imams from the progeny of Fatima, his daughter and ‘Ali, her husband. According to the Isma‘ili beliefs this earth can never remain without Imam, a spiritual guide, an active agent (mamthul of Ashir-e-Mudabbir) on earth. An Isma‘ili da‘i wrote an epistle Ithbat-ul-Imamah to prove this.

Thus Imam on earth is the representative of the Tenth Intellect and hence commands highest respect of the believers. He has all the attributes of the Tenth Intellect and since Allah has no attributes (He transcends all attributes and is beyond them), these attributes apply to the Tenth Intellect. Therefore Imam who is mamthul of the Tenth Intellect on earth also has these attributes on earth. It is this theory of attributes which was misunderstood by the opponents of the Fatimi Imams as the belief in hulul i.e. descent of God into the person of Imam. Dr.Kamil Husain has discussed this in detail in his Muqaddimah (introduction) to the Diwan of Saiyyidna Mua’yyad Shirazi. The person of Imam does not correspond to Allah but to the Tenth Intellect, as pointed out above.

The Isma‘ilis (also referred to as the Fatimids or those following the Fatimi Da‘wah) also believe in the cyclical theory of history. Since it is the duty of the Tenth Intellect to covert total darkness and kathafat in the universe into light in every cycle of history a portion of darkness is reconverted into light and these cycles will continue until entire matter is reconverted into mur (light) and there is no more kathafat in this universe.

In every cycle an Adam is created and the chain of prophethood ends with the last Prophet who is in turn succeeded by imams and lastly, in every cycle there appears what is known as Qa’im al-qiyamah (i.e. one who brings about the Day of Judgement, the Qiyamat). The cycle ends with the Qa’im al-Qiyamah and a definite portion of dark matter is converted into light in that cycle. Thus, according to this theory, these cycles will continue until there is no more matter in this universe and all matter there in is transformed into latafat i.e. light and it is light which will ultimately prevail. This, in short, is the Isma‘ili cyclical theory of history of this universe.

Some of the important books of ta’wil and batini ‘ulum are the Kitab al-Shawahid wa al-Bayan of Saiyyidna Mansur al-Yaman, Ta’wil al-Da‘a’im of Saiyyidna Qadi al-Nu‘man Rahat al-‘Aql by Saiyyidna Hamiduddin Kirmani, Al-Majalis of Saiyyidna Mua’yyad Shirazi etc. These books contain the highest achievements of the Isma‘ili or Fatimi missionaries as far as the knowledge of batin is concerned. We will give some examples of ‘ilm al-ta’wil from these books.

Saiyyidna Qadi al-Nu‘man who compiled the celebrated book of Isma‘ili jurisprudence Al-Da‘a’im al-Islam, also compiled Ta’wil al-Da‘a’im. In this latter work Qadi Nu‘man describes the original meanings of all the elements of shari‘ah and all the related rituals. Qadi N‘uman first emphasises that a true believer has to strike balance between the zahir and batin i.e. what is manifest and what is original intent of the shari‘ah rituals. Qadi Nu’man had to lay this emphasis on the balance between zahir and batin because some extremists among the Isma‘ilis had declared that the shari‘ah is suspended (ta‘til al-shari‘ah) and it is no more necessary to observe the external rituals for those who know ‘ilm al-batin. The Qaramitah, an extremist sect of the Isma‘ilis had ceased to observe the zahiri shari‘ah. The Nizaris later did the same thing.

The Isma‘ilis, as pointed out in an earlier paper, believe in seven pillars of Islam as opposed to other Muslims who believe in five pillars. The two additional pillars are walayah (the love of the family of the Prophet - ahl al-bayt) and taharah (cleanliness). Taharah really means spiritual cleanliness and removal of all spiritual pollutants. The Qadi describes in his Ta’wil al-Da‘a’im the hidden meaning of all the seven da‘a’im, (pillars) one by one.

The very first pillar according to the Isma‘ilis is walayat (love of the family of the Prophet). According to the Qadi each pillar represents one of the great prophets from Adam to Muhammad. Adam represents walayah. Adam was the first prophet whose walayah was made obligatory on the angels and the angels were made to prostrate before him or perform sajdah before him. Sajdah in reality implies obedience. And this is walayah. Adam is the first of all the prophets and his walayah is the walayah of all the succeeding prophets and imams. Those who do not have love of Adam cannot achieve salvation.

The second pillar, according to the Isma‘ili theology, is taharah (i.e. purity). The second prophet Nuh (Noah) represents taharah. Nuh was sent for purification of mankind. Whatever sins were committed during and after Adma’s time Nuh came to purify them and he is one of the great prophets, a prophet with his own shari‘ah. The flood water which is associated with Nuh, symbolises purity as water is needed for purity from dirt and water in batin means ‘ilm (knowledge of ultimate reality) and it is through knowledge that spiritual purity can be attained.

And the third pillar is Salah (i.e. prayer) and Qadi Nu‘man ascribes it to the Prophet Ibrahim. It is he who constructed Baytullah i.e. the House of Allah in Mecca and Allah made this House the Qiblah (i.e. the direction in which the Muslims turn to pray). Hazrat Ibrahim also has great status among the prophets and he is also described as hanif in the holy Qur’an i.e. one who is inclined towards truth.

And it is the prophet Musa who represents zakat. He is the first prophet who is said to have asked Pharaoh (Fir‘aun) to purify himself (tazakka (see the verse 79:16). Musa was the first prophet whom Allah called upon to preach to Fir‘aun purity of self (tazkiyah). Zakat has essentially to do with purification. It is through zakat that one purifies ones wealth by giving away one portion of it to the needy and poor.

The saum (fasting) is related to the prophet Isa (Christ). Saum in ta’wil actually means keeping silent about the batin (i.e. hidden truth of the injunctions of shari‘ah). It was Isa’s mother Mariyam (Mary) who was asked by Allah to say to her people that “I have vowed a fast to the Beneficient, so I will not speak to any man today.” (19:26). Thus it will be seen that in this verse fasting is directly related to keeping silent (about the knowledge of batin)

Similarly haj is related to the last of the prophets Muhammad (pbuh). It is he who first required Muslims to perform haj and expounded all its related manasik (i.e. rituals pertaining to haj). Though the Arabs used to perform haj before Islam but the manasik appointed by Allah in the Qur’an did not exist. Allah says about the pre-Islamic Arabs and their prayer near the Ka‘bah “And their prayer at the House is nothing but whistling and clapping of hands.” (8:35). And the disbelievers used to circumambulate around Ka‘bah in a state of nakedness. It is the holy Prophet who abolished such abominable practice. They had also installed idols all around Ka‘bah whom they used to worship. It is Prophet Muhammad who demolished these idols. He then appointed the rituals for the haj.

And the last of the pillars of Islam is jihad and it is related to the seventh of the chain of imams. The Isma‘ilis (or the Fatimids) give great importance to every seventh imam in the chain of Fatimi imams. The seventh imam is also called natiq (i.e. Speaker). Thus every seventh imam will speak with the permission of Allah about His injunctions and give them a new interpretation through his exertions or through waging war to purify His religion. The Qa’im al-Qiyamah, referred to above, will also be the seventh of the chain of imams and he will be the last of the seventh imams and through him the ummah will be unified on the shari‘ah of the Prophet Muhammad. Thus Prophet Muhammad has merit over all other prophets in the sense that two pillars of Islam - haj and jihad - have been related to him and his progeny.

Saiyyidna Qadi Al-Nu‘man in his Ta’wil al-Da‘a’im lays great stress on ‘ilm (knowledge). ‘Ilm is very fundamental to the Isma‘ili system. ‘Ilm is wazir (minister) to iman (faith). Faith draws sustenance through ‘ilm (knowledge). The Qadi says that ‘ilm applies to both zahir (manifest) and batin (hidden). Thus a mu’min becomes true person of faith through iman and ‘ilm. As the human body can be purified only by water, the soul of a mu’min can be purified only by knowledge. And as amwal (material wealth) cannot be given to undeserving persons or those weak of understanding (sufaha’ see verse 4:5), knowledge also cannot be imparted to those who do not deserve.

Thus one who has been favoured by Allah through knowledge, he should not impart it to undeserving persons. In other words the knowledge of batin can be imparted only to deserving persons whose iman (faith) is strong and unwavering and it will become even more stronger through such knowledge. But if it is imparted to undeserving person, his faith may be weakened and his doubts might increase. Also, one should not be miserly in imparting knowledge of ta’wil to deserving people and he should not be extravagant with the undeserving.

Prayer system (salah) in its essence means establishing the system of da‘wah. Wherever the Qur’an speaks of salah it does not say ‘read prayer’ but says ‘establish prayer’ (aqim al-salah) which in fact means establish the da‘wah headed by the imam who is, after the Prophet, the highest representative of the community of the faithfuls. As one is required to come to prayers at appropriate time, one is required to devote ones energy is establishing the da‘wah (mission) at suitable times and make all possible efforts for it. As the soul enriches itself through prayers, a faithful enriches one self by his/her efforts to establish the mission for the faithfuls.

In short these are some of the prominent features of the Isma‘ili ta’wil. In this brief essay we cannot do full justice to it. But an attempt has been made here to throw light on its essential features. The Fatimi Da‘is have written hundreds of books on this subject which are available to the scholars. This essay can only initiate those interested into the subject.


Why is is that the Ismailis both Nizaris & Mustaali stay silent when they are asked about their faith? We Shias believe that only those that receive divine authority can interpret the actual meaning of the Quran. But why is it that the Ismaili interpreations of the Quran seems to be based more upon a synthesis of greek neo-platonism and Muslim philosophy rather than on the direct teaching of any Imam. If you look at the Twelver Imams people when they were curious about the meaning of a verse went to the Imams like Jafar Sadiq (as) and Ali Raza (as) DIRECTLY and asked for the meaning and the Imams told them its true interpretation. Instead Ismaili Tawil seems to be the work of philosophers & scholars like Sijistani, Nasir Khusrow, Muayyad  al-Shirazi or recent ones like Shiabudin Shah from the Nizaris rather than the word of their Imams themselves. Did the Imams stay silent and inactive, letting the Dais think up whatever fusion of greek and muslim philosophy they felt like? If Ismaili thought is based upon the works of philosophers then what is the point of having Imams?

Quote

Isma‘ilis among the Shi‘as met this challenge by attempting a creative synthesis of the Greek knowledge including its cosmogony with the basic teachings of Islam

Why should an interpretation of the Quran based upon the philosphy of the ancient greeks be valid? Was that philosophy a correct philosophy? But still It is commendable that they attempted to interpret the Quran based upon the best knowledge to them but why has this process stopped? If the Ismailis are dynamic assimilation of knowledge, and this affinity with reason and logic is what vindicates school of thought then why is this assimilation only restricted to the knowledge that was popular in the medieval times only? Science and philosophy have come a long way from  the philosophy of ancient greeks, why do you stick to the interpretation of the Quran dont on the basis of something which can be said obsolete. Look at the theory of evolution, its become a stick with which the atheists think they can beat religion. Why not redo the Tawil of the Quran keeping the theory of evolution in mind? Why dont your dais the "inheritors of the Fatimid tradition" attempt this?

Also it may just be my observation but it appears that your whole setup has stagnated. The Ismaili dais of the old times where philosopher and thinkers, very active missionaries, can your modern dais truly claim to be such? In reality Ismailis are now the MOST insular and hereditary of all the sects present in the Muslim world. Goddamit how can you look at your history and tolerate what you have now become. Maybe this is an indication that your imams were false imams, that your whole movement was false, that for for a few centuries your star rose, but now its fading away.

I say this because I have read of the Ismailis history and their stance on knowledge and learning impressed me. I realize this was what drew learned men to convert to Ismailism, this was how they became one of the greatest missionary movements in Muslim history.
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#111 ali the lion

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Posted 22 March 2010 - 12:17 PM

As per Quran anyone believing in God, day of judgement and does good is a believer. That is my understanding. Therefore you can say he is not a muslim but that does not make him a disbeliever.

#112 devud

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Posted 22 March 2010 - 03:39 PM

salam aleykum
please help me,ı cant use  htis forum effectively.how can ı find topic of about nusayrism.ı want to learn and search abut nusayrism books and religion,

#113 JawzofDETH

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Posted 22 March 2010 - 06:38 PM

View Postdevud, on 22 March 2010 - 03:39 PM, said:

salam aleykum
please help me,ı cant use  htis forum effectively.how can ı find topic of about nusayrism.ı want to learn and search abut nusayrism books and religion,

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alawi

At the bottom are links.

Depiction of Black (Safavid) Shi'ism below:

Posted Image

Causing the beauty to whither, making the ugly into slaves.
Corrupting and destroying all (good and evil) in it's path.
The progeny of Kufah and their legacy.

NEVER AGAIN!


#114 macisaac

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Posted 22 March 2010 - 07:42 PM

View PostJimJam, on 21 March 2010 - 10:13 AM, said:

Why is is that the Ismailis both Nizaris & Mustaali stay silent when they are asked about their faith? We Shias believe that only those that receive divine authority can interpret the actual meaning of the Quran. But why is it that the Ismaili interpreations of the Quran seems to be based more upon a synthesis of greek neo-platonism and Muslim philosophy rather than on the direct teaching of any Imam. If you look at the Twelver Imams people when they were curious about the meaning of a verse went to the Imams like Jafar Sadiq (as) and Ali Raza (as) DIRECTLY and asked for the meaning and the Imams told them its true interpretation. Instead Ismaili Tawil seems to be the work of philosophers & scholars like Sijistani, Nasir Khusrow, Muayyad  al-Shirazi or recent ones like Shiabudin Shah from the Nizaris rather than the word of their Imams themselves. Did the Imams stay silent and inactive, letting the Dais think up whatever fusion of greek and muslim philosophy they felt like? If Ismaili thought is based upon the works of philosophers then what is the point of having Imams?

Not only that, but even on basic, fundamental issues of fiqh hadiths they (e.g. Qadi Nu`man) had to take recourse to Imami and Zaydi collections of hadiths (hence Da`a'im only including hadiths up to Imam Sadiq (as)).  Thing is, he had the Isma`ili "imam" right there, why couldn't he have just asked him?  Why have to use these non-Isma`ili texts for learning such things as how to do their salat?

And as to the philosophy, you are correct, much if not most of it seems to have been cooked up by the philosophically inclined da`is.  As such though, the thought found there isn't very consistent and undergoes some pretty heavy shifts over time.  Much of Isma`ili history involves trying to explain away the past theories when some new idea (or even imam) crops up to replace it.

#115 asadraye2

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Posted 26 March 2010 - 05:20 PM

salam,
well according to fiqh, the one who quit prayer is kafer without any doubt, so if they don't do the 17 rikaa each day then they r kafer without any doubt.there is an aya in quraan where it claims that jews and christians worshiped their relegious leaders. Then, some1 came to imam and asked how did that happen>??? the imam said : worship means listening, they listened to their leader when they made something harm, hala. and when something is halal they made it haram. so this the worship Allah meant in quraan.
So, this playboy, leader, whose son and daughter are married to christians, and performed their marriage in civil court with the bless of their father,if he authorize what halal and haram then he is kafer and whoevers, docile innocent ppl follow him are kuffar as well.
Sorry, NO1 CAN COMPETE WITH EITHER Allah OR HIS PROPHET ON DECIDING WHAT;S HALAL AND HARAM,PERIOD.

#116 Shia Shahid

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Posted 30 April 2010 - 03:18 PM

View Postasadraye2, on 26 March 2010 - 05:20 PM, said:

salam,
well according to fiqh, the one who quit prayer is kafer without any doubt, so if they don't do the 17 rikaa each day then they r kafer without any doubt.there is an aya in quraan where it claims that jews and christians worshiped their relegious leaders. Then, some1 came to imam and asked how did that happen>??? the imam said : worship means listening, they listened to their leader when they made something harm, hala. and when something is halal they made it haram. so this the worship Allah meant in quraan.
So, this playboy, leader, whose son and daughter are married to christians, and performed their marriage in civil court with the bless of their father,if he authorize what halal and haram then he is kafer and whoevers, docile innocent ppl follow him are kuffar as well.
Sorry, NO1 CAN COMPETE WITH EITHER Allah OR HIS PROPHET ON DECIDING WHAT;S HALAL AND HARAM,PERIOD.

Brother, be very careful here. Missing prayers is a sin but does NOT make you a kaffir. Blindly following the whims of greedy corrupt apostate gurus/Agha Khans DOES. They should sell all that fancy gold furniture and feed the poor, they even call themselves princes although they have never ruled a country!
If at any time you find yourself admiring your own appearance, wealth, intelligence, or power, STOP and admire and worship Allah instead, for it was none but He that created you so, and put you there amidst all that you "have", and just for that He is worthy of all our gratefulness.

#117 89jghur32

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Posted 30 April 2010 - 05:30 PM

View PostShia Shahid, on 30 April 2010 - 03:18 PM, said:

Brother, be very careful here. Missing prayers is a sin but does NOT make you a kaffir. Blindly following the whims of greedy corrupt apostate gurus/Agha Khans DOES. They should sell all that fancy gold furniture and feed the poor, they even call themselves princes although they have never ruled a country!

He used the word "quit", not the word "miss".  The one who denies that prayer (as the Prophet (pbuh) offered it) is a kafir.  The one who misses prayer out of negligence or laziness, but still upholds that it is a requirement fore the believer, is still a Muslim.  

The next thing would be determine if the du'as that the Nizari Ismailis recite are an acceptable substitute for salah.  Although, I shouldn't have to answer this one.
Imam Muhammad al-Baqir (as) said, "Refrain from deliberating in Allah. Rather when you desire to contemplate over His greatness, contemplate over the greatness of His creation."

#118 JimJam

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Posted 17 May 2010 - 10:51 AM

THe Great Resurrection

This event is the reason why Nizari Ismailis consider themselves free of  Islamic law.

Quote

The qiyamah had freed the murids  from the burdens of the religious law (shari’ah) and summoned them to the spiritual reality (haqiqah) of the Imam. They were invited to experience the spiritual Paradise on earth and be blessed with the Imam’s luminous vision (nurani didar).

In the exoteric understanding, the term Resurrection (qiyamah in Islam) refers to events that occur at the end of the world and the last judgment. In Isma‘ili thought, the Resurrection or qiyamah is a continuous event that brings change, spiritual elevation and retribution. Both creation and qiyamah occur continuously and in every moment. Qiyamah also takes place in the realm of history; not the material history of the physical world (‘alam al-dunya) but the sacred history of the World of Faith (‘alam al-din).

Either we lack proper exoteric understanding, or they're simply wrong

Check out the 'I Wish I’d Been There' series of articles at the Simerg site. It makes for an interesting read.
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#119 zoya1234

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Posted 26 May 2010 - 07:44 AM

I  don't see why not, unless the Tayyibi holds hatred toward our Imams  or exaggerated beliefs toward their imams.

#120 Amuslimbeliever

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Posted 20 June 2010 - 06:30 PM

A few topics to consider for all muslims!!!    *not intended to hurt anyone

If you are sunni:---- Allah says in the quran that there are messages/revelations in the Quran that are simple to understand ( i.e. do good, be righteous, don't murder etc). Then there are messages that are presented as parables or similitudes which are very hard to understand. (Which leaves room for interpretation) -----  SO,how can we solve the problem of TWO INDIVIDUALS INTERPRETING ONE PARABLE DIFFERENTLY WITHOUT ONE OF THEM BEING ABLE TO CALL THE OTHER NON-MUSLIM? (Read it again :) ) Unless you solve this issue there will always be problems.

If you are shia: ---- You believe in Imam Ali as successor of Prophet Mohammad (pbuh). The rationale is that, Allah declared Imam Ali as successor of Prophet Mohammad (pbuh) so he could give the TRUE/RIGHT interpretation of the Holy Quran as time progresses and change (especially large ones) happens. Through this Allah solved the above problem, which the Sunni faith muslims have a really, really hard time solving. (especially in different eras.) (i mean look at different scholars disagreeing with one another or declaring fatwas against each other,,, and etc)

another question for Shia: Since you believe in Imam Ali. Imagine you lived during Imam Ali's period, Prophet Mohammad (pbuh) has passed away and Imam Ali changes some of the things that Prophet Mohammad (pbuh) had asked us to do. WOULD YOU FOLLOW IMAM ALI'S COMMANDS? ---- If you are true shia, you must answer yes because Prophet Mohammad PBUH had declared him as his successor and said whoever's master he was, after he passed away, Ali was his/her (the follower's) master. Now imagine if you lived at different time periods and different situations that range in centuries and millenniums.

I am a proud Ismaili. I try to follow  the commands of Allah, Prophet Mohammad PBUH and Imam  as closely as I can. and you know what he always asks me to do is Build bridges, maintain the ethics of islam wherever I am (i.e. brotherhood, help the needy and aged, ...). And I see some individuals coming here and running their mouth about my faith. Show some respect because I have always respected my Sunni and shia friends for their beliefs.  

A piece of advice for you:    Know your own religion first then come and talk to me about mine.  

Now I am no scholar but I think ALL the above rationals makes sense, don't you? unless you come in terms with the above, I request you respect others faiths which is what Islam REQUIRES you to do.

Salam alaikum.

#121 princevisram

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Posted 24 June 2010 - 10:39 AM

I'm sorry I'm a little late in this one, but I too am an Ismaili.

The truth is that whoever can say the shahada is a mulsim and if you fail to realize this, then that is a loss to yourself.  At the beloved Prophet's (S.A.W) time, this is how he converted the people.

Many religions are misunderstood. Many people are misunderstood. Many beleifs are misunderstood.

What I believe will always be different than you, but the importance is we all respect eachother's beliefs.

Here is a beautiful Ginan (A Ismaili hymn made by the Ismaili Saint Pir Sadardeen [13th century]) on Allah, the Almighty.

AVICHAL Allah AVICHAL KHAALAK BY PEER SADARDEEN

ejee avichal Allah avichal khaalak
avichal kaaem dayaal eji.....................................1

Everlasting is Allah, everlasting is the Creator, everlasting is the Enduring and Merciful One.

ejee avichal rehannaa avichal rehamat
avichal duras divaan eji.....................................2

Everlasting is His existence, everlasting is His mercy, everlasting is His righteous court.

ejee haphat chij mere khaalak siraji
so bi rehann-haaraa eji......................................3

Seven things have been fashioned by my Creator, and those are the ones which endure.

ejee ek aras ne dujaa te kuras
trijaa tul mijaan eji........................................4

The first is His heaven, the second His throne, the third the scales and balance.

ejee chothaa lohaa pa(n)chamaa kalamaa
chhatthaa dojak jaanno eji...................................5

The fourth is the tablet, the fifth the pen, and know that hell is the sixth.

ejee saatmaa behesht sunno mere bhaai
so amar thaan vakhaannu(n) eji...............................6

The seventh is paradise. Listen, my brother, as I praise that everlasting abode.

ejee chala(n)te lachhami chala(n)te praann
chala(n)te rup dhan joban eji................................7

Wealth is transient, life is transient, and transient are beauty, riches and youth.

chala(n)te chaaraa sarave so(n)saar keraa
dharam to rese nechal eji.........................................8

All representatives of the world are transient. Faith alone will endure for ever.

ejee iaa(n) tame deso aagal jaai leso
karatap saathi teraa eji.....................................9

If here you give, you will receive when you go to the hereafter, with your good deeds as your companions.

ejee jibh savaad kaayaa ras linnaa
etanaa khaavann teraa eji...................................10

Your tongue is engrossed in tastes, and your body in delights. So many are the things which you consume.

ejee etane khaavann tame jivaddaa phiraavo
e nahin bhal bhaleraa eji...................................11

Through consuming so much you make your soul wander. In no way does your welfare lie in this.

ejee bhalere bhaai tame kar lio kamaai
mat re khaavo dujaa pheraa eji..............................12

To ensure your welfare you should practise good deeds, brother, or you will be consumed by further cycles of return.

ejee bhanne peer sadardeen sat-gur baramaa
athar-ved bhanne so meraa eji...............................13

Peer Sadardeen the True Guide and the Creator teaches: those who recite the fourth scripture are mine.

This translation taken from Zawahir Moir's Ismaili Hymns.

If thats not practicing Islam, I dont know what is..

The Noor of Allah is the love of my heart. Allah, I love You. You are my guide, You are my strength. Your Noor brightens my everyday life and helps my task remain easy. From You I have come, and to You I will return. There is none in comparison to the Likeness of Your Elegant Light. O Allah! Always keep me on the path of Sirat al-Mustaqim, and help me better understand Your Creation in my everyday life.

______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________


"Greed and faith can never coexist in the human heart."

"Verily, a man hath performed prayers, fasts, charity, pilgrimage and all other good works; but he will not be rewarded except by the proportion of his understanding."

- Hadith of the Beloved Prophet Muhammad (Õáì Çááå Úáíå æÂáå æÓáã)


#122 JimJam

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Posted 21 July 2010 - 12:03 PM

^

Quote

To ensure your welfare you should practise good deeds, brother, or you will be consumed by further cycles of return.

Isn't this reincarnation?
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#123 princevisram

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Posted 24 July 2010 - 11:51 PM

View PostJimJam, on 21 July 2010 - 12:03 PM, said:

^


Isn't this reincarnation?

Rebirth is what you can call it. In the Ginans the Pirs mention that if you fall astray from Islam, you will have to live life in another form, another way to make up for your deeds. If you do not fulfil what you have come on this earth for, you will run through the cycles of rebirth. It is a different interpretation.

It is important to note that Ismailis alone do not believe in reincarnation. Many Sufis, for example, follow this belief.

Mowlana Rumi has said,

"I died as mineral and became a plant,
I died as plant and rose to animal,
I died as animal and I was man.
Why should I fear?
When was I less by dying?
Yet once more I shall die as man,
To soar with angels blest;
But even from angelhood I must pass on ... "

Mansur al-Hallaj has wrote:

Like the herbage
I have sprung up many a time
On the banks of flowing rivers.
For a hundred thousand years
I have lived and worked
In every sort of body.

The Quran also mentions, based on my own and others' interpretation:

"They [the unbelievers] will say: "Our Lord! Twice you have caused us death and twice you have given us life. We now confess our sins. Is there any way out [now]'?" (40:11)

For more noteworthy quotes and interpretations, check out this article:

http://www.adishakti...on_in_islam.htm

Edited by princevisram, 25 July 2010 - 12:06 AM.

The Noor of Allah is the love of my heart. Allah, I love You. You are my guide, You are my strength. Your Noor brightens my everyday life and helps my task remain easy. From You I have come, and to You I will return. There is none in comparison to the Likeness of Your Elegant Light. O Allah! Always keep me on the path of Sirat al-Mustaqim, and help me better understand Your Creation in my everyday life.

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"Greed and faith can never coexist in the human heart."

"Verily, a man hath performed prayers, fasts, charity, pilgrimage and all other good works; but he will not be rewarded except by the proportion of his understanding."

- Hadith of the Beloved Prophet Muhammad (Õáì Çááå Úáíå æÂáå æÓáã)


#124 JimJam

JimJam

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Posted 25 July 2010 - 04:57 AM

View Postprincevisram, on 24 July 2010 - 11:51 PM, said:

Rebirth is what you can call it. In the Ginans the Pirs mention that if you fall astray from Islam, you will have to live life in another form, another way to make up for your deeds. If you do not fulfil what you have come on this earth for, you will run through the cycles of rebirth. It is a different interpretation.

It is important to note that Ismailis alone do not believe in reincarnation. Many Sufis, for example, follow this belief.

Mowlana Rumi has said,

"I died as mineral and became a plant,
I died as plant and rose to animal,
I died as animal and I was man.
Why should I fear?
When was I less by dying?
Yet once more I shall die as man,
To soar with angels blest;
But even from angelhood I must pass on ... "

Mansur al-Hallaj has wrote:

Like the herbage
I have sprung up many a time
On the banks of flowing rivers.
For a hundred thousand years
I have lived and worked
In every sort of body.

The Quran also mentions, based on my own and others' interpretation:

"They [the unbelievers] will say: "Our Lord! Twice you have caused us death and twice you have given us life. We now confess our sins. Is there any way out [now]'?" (40:11)

For more noteworthy quotes and interpretations, check out this article:

http://www.adishakti...on_in_islam.htm
And you were dead, and He brought you back to life. And He shall cause you to die, and shall bring you back to life, and in the end shall gather you unto Himself." (2:28)
"They [the unbelievers] will say: "Our Lord! Twice you have caused us death and twice you have given us life. We now confess our sins. Is there any way out [now]'?" (40:11)

We do not neglect such verses, to us, this shows the reality of the Barzakh. If we will be raised again to life we will not be raised back here. The verse you cited also supports this view since it speaks of the time of judgment day and the people say that you gave given us life and death twice.

This tafsir of verse 2:154 explains our view of Barzakh, the writer has used both the Quran and the sayings of the Imams common to us both.
http://www.shiasourc...seer-2-153-157/
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#125 princevisram

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Posted 25 July 2010 - 02:52 PM

View PostJimJam, on 25 July 2010 - 04:57 AM, said:

And you were dead, and He brought you back to life. And He shall cause you to die, and shall bring you back to life, and in the end shall gather you unto Himself." (2:28)
"They [the unbelievers] will say: "Our Lord! Twice you have caused us death and twice you have given us life. We now confess our sins. Is there any way out [now]'?" (40:11)

We do not neglect such verses, to us, this shows the reality of the Barzakh. If we will be raised again to life we will not be raised back here. The verse you cited also supports this view since it speaks of the time of judgment day and the people say that you gave given us life and death twice.

This tafsir of verse 2:154 explains our view of Barzakh, the writer has used both the Quran and the sayings of the Imams common to us both.
http://www.shiasourc...seer-2-153-157/

I never really thought of it that way, but once again there are many interpretations and I'm sure we can all respect each other's. Although I firmly believe in reincarnation, I still see how other may not and I respect their views. Another reason the above ginan (as well as many other ginans) would reference reincarnation could be because they were mainly sung to convert Hindus to Islam (particularly the Ismaili sect) and because the Hindus believe in it, sharing their beliefs could better help them understand (teaching them through their own words basically)... Although I still wouldn't doubt their beliefs in rebirth due to the numerous amounts of times they mention it in their Ginans.. but like I said before, the Ismaili Pirs and Dais weren't the only ones; look at Rumi and other world-famous Muslims...

Edited by princevisram, 25 July 2010 - 02:53 PM.

The Noor of Allah is the love of my heart. Allah, I love You. You are my guide, You are my strength. Your Noor brightens my everyday life and helps my task remain easy. From You I have come, and to You I will return. There is none in comparison to the Likeness of Your Elegant Light. O Allah! Always keep me on the path of Sirat al-Mustaqim, and help me better understand Your Creation in my everyday life.

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"Greed and faith can never coexist in the human heart."

"Verily, a man hath performed prayers, fasts, charity, pilgrimage and all other good works; but he will not be rewarded except by the proportion of his understanding."

- Hadith of the Beloved Prophet Muhammad (Õáì Çááå Úáíå æÂáå æÓáã)




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