76 replies to this topic

[Abdul-Rahman Brent]

Salamu alaikum, great summary refuting the lies of the anti-Ahmadinejad evildoers.  One area I would like to add a few things about is that of the vote in Azeri areas.  Ahmadinejad won the overall Azeri vote for many reasons, which you pointed to.  First, Azeris who live in Iran are overall very religious Muslims (which contrasts with the Azeris living in the nation of Azerbaijan who tend overall to be more secular).  Imam Khamenei(ha) is himself an Azeri!  Also everyone knew Rahbar Khamenei(ha) favored and preferred Dr. Mahmoud Ahmadinejad for re-election.  As you said Dr. Ahmadinejad worked in his early political career in Azeri majority cities, like Ardabil for example.  Dr. Ahmadinejad speaks fluent Azeri and has great relations with the overall conservative Azeri people in Iran.  Lastly, one important point that wasn't spoken of in your original piece is that it has not been unheard of in the West and America in particular, for political candidates to lose their home state or region.  The most glaring contemporary example of this in America was in the 2000 U.S. Presidential race.  In the 2000 U.S. Presidential race Democratic candidate Al Gore lost his home state of Tennessee to Republican candidate (and future President George W. Bush).  In didn't matter that Al Gore was a native of the state of Tennessee, the people of the southern state of Tennessee went with the more conservative George W. Bush.

[zainabia]

Thanks a lot brother.

And yes, US Media has to look at their own Election Results before casting doubts about AN.

Unfortunately, their Propaganda is very  strong.

Unfortunately, even a big number of our own Shia Community do believe in this Western Media Propaganda about recent elections.

Unfortunately, Arab Countries went hands in hands along with Western false Propaganda. Either it is Saudia, or Dubai or Kuwait or other Arab Countries, but all of them went hands in hands with US.

Unfortunately, big number of Sunni Brothers has converted to Satanic Prejudice filled Salafies (in Pakistan) and they went in hands in hands with this western propaganda (or even worse)

We should realize, we won on the battlefield, but Satanic forces did beat us in field of Propaganda. We have to improve in many fields yet. Let us pray to Allah swt to increase us in our Taufiqaat and give us the opportunity to work more and more for the mission of ahlebait as. amin.

Edited by zainabia, 16 August 2009 - 10:08 AM.

[Awaiting_for_the12th]

zainabia, on 16 August 2009 - 10:06 AM, said:

Thanks a lot brother.

And yes, US Media has to look at their own Election Results before casting doubts about AN.

Unfortunately, their Propaganda is very  strong.

Unfortunately, even a big number of our own Shia Community do believe in this Western Media Propaganda about recent elections.

Unfortunately, Arab Countries went hands in hands along with Western false Propaganda. Either it is Saudia, or Dubai or Kuwait or other Arab Countries, but all of them went hands in hands with US.

Unfortunately, big number of Sunni Brothers has converted to Satanic Prejudice filled Salafies (in Pakistan) and they went in hands in hands with this western propaganda (or even worse)

We should realize, we won on the battlefield, but Satanic forces did beat us in field of Propaganda. We have to improve in many fields yet. Let us pray to Allah swt to increase us in our Taufiqaat and give us the opportunity to work more and more for the mission of ahlebait as. amin.

salam o alikum sister,
i am so happy to see that you are doing the same as me...and the points i have are pretty similar to yours... my focus is mainly on getting to the jewish news site and posting it there in the comments section... most of the momineen already know the truth, we have to focus on getting other people to see it too... may Allah help us in this as right now the war is not being done with sword rather by controlling the media...

[Abdul-Rahman Brent]

~RuQaYaH~, on 27 June 2009 - 11:15 AM, said:

An objection I heard someone saying today was that 4years ago Karroubi had gotten about 5million votes and yet this election he only got about 300,000 votes despite taking tougher stances or something like that. They were speaking to me in farsi and my understanding of farsi is not very good so I couldn't really understand what exactly the objection was and do recognise that such a thing wouldn't constitute hard proof but I am nevertheless interested to know what they were talking about, so can someone please shed some light on this.

One good thing to keep in mind on Karroubi in this 2009 Iranian Presidential election, is that he was not the same candidate he was in the 2005 election, or should I say the election circumstances were different.  The race in 2005 was a more open race, with then President Mohammad Khatami (1997-2005) having served two terms and not running again.  Thus in this more open race in 2005 Karroubi was able to do somewhat better (but was still a relatively small candidate, next to the top two: the winner Mahmoud Ahmadinejad and 2nd place Rafsanjani).  Yet this year in 2009, the election was clearly between two candidates Dr. Ahmadinjead (the incumbent) and the challenger Mir Hossein Mousavi.  It is very common in an important, large election with only 2 candidates viewed as possible winners (or real players) for voters to not bother looking at smaller long-shot candidates: like Karroubi.  For example in U.S. politics you can see the case of 3rd party (Green Party) candidate Ralph Nader.  In the 2000 U.S. Presidential race Ralph Nader ran and did suprisingly well for a 3rd party candidate.  Most scholars even believe it was Ralph Nader who helped give that extremely tight 2000 election to George W. Bush over Al Gore.  This is because people who voted for the small party, liberal Green Party candidate Ralph Nader would've likely voted for Al Gore if they hadn't been drawn to the impossible Nader (who could never win).  In a race as tight as the 2000 U.S. Presidental race it is very possible this alone could've been what cost Al Gore the 2000 election to Bush.

In the 2004 U.S. Presidential election Ralph Nader was no where near as strong a candidate as he had been in 2000.  Democrats and liberals had learned the lesson and still were burning from the close loss (even when they won the popular vote, but no the electoral college vote!) in the 2000 race.  The 2004 race was clearly between Bush and Kerry and nobody was going to waste time on a small, liberal 3rd party candidate like Ralph Nader again.  Same thing happened to Karroubi in Iran's election.

Edited by Abdul-Rahman Brent, 02 September 2009 - 08:48 AM.

[Yusuf101]

Analysis i read by an unbiased group:

http://www.terrorfre...Report 0609.pdf


Basically states ahmedinajad did win...

[sarmad17]

Salam,

Another intreasting report for those still intreasted

http://iran2009presi...n.blogspot.com/

THoguhts?

[iraqi_shia]

very interesting thread.

Thanks Zainabia for your analysis.

[bandekhoda]

it is not at all important whether the results were rigged or not.. .what matters is what happened AFTER the election
I personally lost respect for khamenei

[comrade]

^The propaganda is almost one year too late.  You missed the train.  

The only thing that happened after the election was a desperate CIA and Israeli inspired coup attempt.  Nothing more.  So many Iran "experts" predicted the complete collapse of the government, just as they have been griping about for thirty years.  And it still hasn't happened.  

So yeah, I agree with you, what happened after the election does matter.  Just not what the gharbzedegi dreamers would have wanted.

[bandekhoda]

yes the 13 million iranians who voted for mousavi were all either israeli, or CIA agents.
nobody wanted the collapse of the government, they wanted an explanation as to what happened to their votes.

[baradar_jackson]

bandekhoda, on 21 April 2010 - 06:03 PM, said:

it is not at all important whether the results were rigged or not.. .what matters is what happened AFTER the election
I personally lost respect for khamenei

åãæØä ÚÒیÒ:
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[bandekhoda]

baradar_jackson, on 21 April 2010 - 06:19 PM, said:

åãæØä ÚÒíÒ:
ãÔ˜á ãÇ Çíäå ˜å ÊÇ ÏÔãä ÏíÏ ˜å íå ÇÎÊáÇÝí Èíäãæä íÔ ÇæãÏå ÝæÑí ÔÑæÚ ˜ÑÏ Èå Çíä ˜å ÊÈáíÛÇÊ ˜äå æ ÓæÇÓÊÝÇÏå ˜äå. æÞÊí ÞÖíå ÇãäíÊí ãíÔå (íÚäí äÙÇã äǍÇÑ ãíÔå ÈÇ Çíä ÊåÏíÏÇÊ ÎÇÑÌí ãÈÇÑÒå ˜äå) ãÊÇÓÝÇäå íå ÚÏå Çí ÇÒ ãÑÏã Èí äÇå ˜ÔÊå ãíÔä. æáí ÚÕá ÞÖíå Çíäå ˜å Çíä ÇÎÊáÇÝÇÊ ÇÒ äÞÔ ÈíÇäÇäå. íÚäí ÇæäÇ ÊÇ Çíä ããá˜Ê äÇÈæÏ äÔå ÑÇÒí äÎæÇåäÏ ÔÏ

ÏÑÓÊå¡ ÑÇ ÇÎÊáÇÝ Èíäãæä ÇÝÊÇÏ¿ ÇäÞÏÑ äíä ÈíÇäå åÇ æ ÎÇÑÌí åÇ! Èå ÎÏÇ ÎæÏ ãÑÏããæä ÈæÏä ÇíäÇíí ˜å ÇÚÊÑÇÖ ÏÇÔÊä.
˜í ÝÖÇ Ñæ ÇãäíÊí ˜ÑÏ¿ ÔãÇ ÏÇÑí ãíí ÏÔãä ÇÒ ÂÈ áÇáæÏ ãÇåí ÑÝÊ¡ ãä ãíã ˜í ÂÈ Ñæ áÇáæÏ ˜ÑÏ¿

isnt this an english forum?

[comrade]

bandekhoda, on 21 April 2010 - 06:16 PM, said:

yes the 13 million iranians who voted for mousavi were all either israeli, or CIA agents.
nobody wanted the collapse of the government, they wanted an explanation as to what happened to their votes.

I'm glad you've accepted the number as 13 million.  

The majority of Mousavi voters did not burn down cars and destroy public property.  They accepted the results, accepted the process, obeyed laws, and moved on with their lives.

Only a fringe minority who actively wanted to overthrow the government came up with all this mass vote-rigging propaganda.  They tried to destroy property, the CIA cheerleaded them on, but they have failed and have become irrelevant.  They cannot even stop traffic if they wanted to.  

This is all old news.

bandekhoda, on 21 April 2010 - 06:29 PM, said:

isnt this an english forum?

He wanted to gauge if you are actually Iranian.

[bandekhoda]

none of the ones who destroyed properties and cars were mousavi supporters. they are the hooligans who are always looking for an opportunity to cause chaos.

there are people who genuinely believe the election was rigged, but are also strong followers of the revolution. their "connection to CIA and israel" is all khamenei talking...

[baradar_jackson]

bandekhoda, on 21 April 2010 - 06:29 PM, said:

ÏÑÓÊå¡ ÑÇ ÇÎÊáÇÝ Èíäãæä ÇÝÊÇÏ¿ ÇäÞÏÑ äíä ÈíÇäå åÇ æ ÎÇÑÌí åÇ! Èå ÎÏÇ ÎæÏ ãÑÏããæä ÈæÏä ÇíäÇíí ˜å ÇÚÊÑÇÖ ÏÇÔÊä.
˜í ÝÖÇ Ñæ ÇãäíÊí ˜ÑÏ¿ ÔãÇ ÏÇÑí ãíí ÏÔãä ÇÒ ÂÈ áÇáæÏ ãÇåí ÑÝÊ¡ ãä ãíã ˜í ÂÈ Ñæ áÇáæÏ ˜ÑÏ¿

isnt this an english forum?

I am not saying that the people who participated in the protests were spies. I am saying that they were pawns.

We have VOA, CNN, and BBC taking marching orders from the Israeli foreign ministry and broadcasting news to millions of Iranians. They control what Iranians see, more so than our state media. And what they showed the people were things that triggered a reaction. That's why this has become an issue of national security.

Who made the waters muddied? Those who fanned the flames.

And if you think this is all just paranoia, I would recommend you read official reports from American policymakers. "Inciting a popular revolt" is one of their options with respect to Iran.

Mahdaviat, on 21 April 2010 - 06:39 PM, said:

He wanted to gauge if you are actually Iranian.

No brother i just thought it would be friendlier. But since I got in trouble for posting in Farsi before, i will stop.

[bandekhoda]

baradar_jackson, on 21 April 2010 - 07:04 PM, said:

And what they showed the people were things that triggered a reaction. That's why this has become an issue of national security.

people did not need to see a utube video on BBC to find out that a woman was shot, another beaten, another pushed off a bridge, etc etc. they were THERE. that's what triggered a reaction!

baradar_jackson, on 21 April 2010 - 07:04 PM, said:

Who made the waters muddied? Those who fanned the flames.

if ahmadinejad had not publicly slandered hashemi and his family, and had not (on state television) put a huge question mark on the past 30 yrs of revolution, people would not have reacted this way. if khamenei had not congratulated ahmadinejad before the completion of the vote countings, and if the government had allowed peaceful demonstrations to take place, none of this would've happened.

baradar_jackson, on 21 April 2010 - 07:04 PM, said:

And if you think this is all just paranoia, I would recommend you read official reports from American policymakers. "Inciting a popular revolt" is one of their options with respect to Iran.

I don't think it's all paranoia. but i know that the only thing that unites iranians is a threat from the "enemy". that's why it is used so often by khamenei in his speeches. If he doesn't pass the blame, how would he justify killing innocent people on the streets or raping innocent political prisoners?

Edited by bandekhoda, 21 April 2010 - 07:34 PM.

[shiasoldier786]

bandekhoda, on 21 April 2010 - 06:03 PM, said:

I personally lost respect for khamenei

oh, and you are?

[bandekhoda]

shiasoldier786, on 21 April 2010 - 08:22 PM, said:

oh, and you are?

someone who used to respect him

[baradar_jackson]

bandekhoda, on 21 April 2010 - 07:33 PM, said:

people did not need to see a utube video on BBC to find out that a woman was shot, another beaten, another pushed off a bridge, etc etc. they were THERE. that's what triggered a reaction!

if ahmadinejad had not publicly slandered hashemi and his family, and had not (on state television) put a huge question mark on the past 30 yrs of revolution, people would not have reacted this way. if khamenei had not congratulated ahmadinejad before the completion of the vote countings, and if the government had allowed peaceful demonstrations to take place, none of this would've happened.

I don't think it's all paranoia. but i know that the only thing that unites iranians is a threat from the "enemy". that's why it is used so often by khamenei in his speeches. If he doesn't pass the blame, how would he justify killing innocent people on the streets or raping innocent political prisoners?

I don't think it's relevant to argue about the protests or the extent to which the crackdown of them was violent.

Los Angeles Police were forced to bring tanks into the streets to contain the Watts riots. Same with the Chinese in Tiananman square. Same with the Russians in 1993, when Yeltsin ordered tanks to fire on the White House (Russian parliament building).

We can't just consider Iran to exist in a vacuum, and refuse to acknowledge that much worse has happened in countries that are larger, richer, and more powerful than we are.

In any case, I am not here to argue about morality or ethics. I never denied that innocent people have been killed. I just think we should look at the bigger picture. Our country has become a board game for foreign imperialists because some of our people lack proper perspective and fail to think more analytically. The people who died, died because some bureaucrat in the West decided that invading Iran would be unsuccessful, bloody, and costly (and therefore that this "regime change" would have to be brought about with the blood of Iranians themselves).

It's quite simple: when you KNOW that the American media painted the 28th of Mordad coup as a popular revolt, don't trust the American media to give you information on Iran.

When you KNOW that American political institutions are openly calling for "regime change," don't be so naive to think that this is a struggle which has no relation to global events or foreign interests.

When you KNOW that the current relationship Iran has with China and Russia are in no way analogous to the relationship pre-revolutionary Iran had with the US, don't chant "marg bar chin," "marg bar rusiye."

Our people are either incredibly unintelligent or incredibly naive if they failed to consider these.

One needs to analyze the situation before he jumps head first into political activity. Think: who is to gain? Who is to lose? What is our current state? What are the alternatives? etc.

[sarmad17]

Even though im not fully iranian allow me to add a couple of words.

Sis, is Khamanie m'ssom [pure, free from error]?  

Obviosuly not, now that his not m'ssom can we expect what he does to be 100% right? Ofcourse not!

The point im trying to raise is that Khamanie is prone to error and mistakes and Imam Ali (a.s) says : Overlook and forgive the weaknesses of the generous people because if they fall down, Allah will help them.

Now ofcourse innocent people died and violations occured, thats undefendable, but we should really take what Rafsenjanis said 'When protesting [in what ever form it may be] don't do it in such a way that the enemies benefit' The likes of Khamanie will love your input to improve the contry [as i remember they always want people to question them] but the means in which that happens needs to be considered. Inshallah the best.

Wallahu A'lem

BTW how can u expect people to take you seriously when you have a picture of a women waering a scarf with the sleeves rolled up high?

[bandekhoda]

baradar_jackson, on 21 April 2010 - 10:18 PM, said:

I don't think it's relevant to argue about the protests or the extent to which the crackdown of them was violent.

the way they are dealing with the situation tells you alot about what really happened in the election. if they are in the majority, why use such force against the minority?

baradar_jackson, on 21 April 2010 - 10:18 PM, said:

Los Angeles Police were forced to bring tanks into the streets to contain the Watts riots. Same with the Chinese in Tiananman square. Same with the Russians in 1993, when Yeltsin ordered tanks to fire on the White House (Russian parliament building).

We can't just consider Iran to exist in a vacuum, and refuse to acknowledge that much worse has happened in countries that are larger, richer, and more powerful than we are.

I'm not comparing iran to other world powers. we are supposed to be an islamic country, so our morals and aims should be very different from those of western countries. remove the "islamic" from the Islamic Republic of Iran, and I won't complain about the handling of the situation by khamenei!

baradar_jackson, on 21 April 2010 - 10:18 PM, said:

In any case, I am not here to argue about morality or ethics. I never denied that innocent people have been killed. I just think we should look at the bigger picture. Our country has become a board game for foreign imperialists because some of our people lack proper perspective and fail to think more analytically.

there is no such a thing in islam as doing wrong for a greater good. In islam you cannot even slap a prisoner to make him confess... yes the "bigger picture" is if he confesses and you get more information out of him you can identify his accomplices and imprison them, and then you'll have a safer society! but it's not allowed, end of!

I'm sure you've seen this clip , if Imam Ali(AS) was looking at the bigger picture at the time, he should'v killed Amr ibn Ass even when he undressed himself , cuz his existence was a threat to islam..but something as minor as a "haram look" stops him from doing that! and when I say minor, I mean comparing to what the islamic republic does in order to keep its status.

baradar_jackson, on 21 April 2010 - 10:18 PM, said:

The people who died, died because some bureaucrat in the West decided that invading Iran would be unsuccessful, bloody, and costly (and therefore that this "regime change" would have to be brought about with the blood of Iranians themselves).

that's exactly what the iranian media wants to portray. they are so distant from their own people, that they fail to even CONSIDER that maybeeee if was REALLY their own people who were angry with the results of the election and wanted to come to the streets to voice their anger.

baradar_jackson, on 21 April 2010 - 10:18 PM, said:

It's quite simple: when you KNOW that the American media painted the 28th of Mordad coup as a popular revolt, don't trust the American media to give you information on Iran.

you know it's funny how every time people are opposing the government it is labelled as a "coup". I don't trust the american media...or the british media. I don't need a foreign media to tell me what is going on in my own country.

baradar_jackson, on 21 April 2010 - 10:18 PM, said:

When you KNOW that American political institutions are openly calling for "regime change," don't be so naive to think that this is a struggle which has no relation to global events or foreign interests.

what is the cost of keeping this regime? how many more should be killed and prisoned? doesn't the Quran say killing a person is like killing the whole of mankind?!

[bandekhoda]

sarmad17, on 22 April 2010 - 07:33 AM, said:

Even though im not fully iranian allow me to add a couple of words.

Sis, is Khamanie m'ssom [pure, free from error]?  

Obviosuly not, now that his not m'ssom can we expect what he does to be 100% right? Ofcourse not!

not being a ma'soom is one thing, being pure evil is another.

sarmad17, on 22 April 2010 - 07:33 AM, said:

The point im trying to raise is that Khamanie is prone to error and mistakes and Imam Ali (a.s) says : Overlook and forgive the weaknesses of the generous people because if they fall down, Allah will help them.

I could say the same thing about Yazid or Abubakr. that's not a valid argument.

sarmad17, on 22 April 2010 - 07:33 AM, said:

Now ofcourse innocent people died and violations occured, thats undefendable, but we should really take what Rafsenjanis said 'When protesting [in what ever form it may be] don't do it in such a way that the enemies benefit'

why do you think the islamic revolution is under threat now? because for 30 years that's what we've done, censored ourselves to the point of denying there is ever anything wrong with our country and its leaders. sweeping eveything under the carpet. don't talk about youth addiction, the enemy will become happy! don't say anything about prostitution, it will please the enemy! give incorrect statistics regarding the rate of unemployment so that the enemy will not take advantage!

sarmad17, on 22 April 2010 - 07:33 AM, said:

The likes of Khamanie will love your input to improve the contry [as i remember they always want people to question them] but the means in which that happens needs to be considered. Inshallah the best.

they always want people to question them???? LOOOOOOOOOL! when was the last time you read the news on iran? do you know Ahmad Zeiadabadi is in prison for saying "magham e rahbari" instead of "magham e moazzam e rahbari"? do you know Mohammad Nourizad is in prison for writing a letter to khamenei criticising him?

sarmad17, on 22 April 2010 - 07:33 AM, said:

BTW how can u expect people to take you seriously when you have a picture of a women waering a scarf with the sleeves rolled up high?

I had not noticed her sleeves were rolled up! your attention to detail is admirable.
hopefully people will overlook the unimportant details and see the point of the picture.

Edited by bandekhoda, 22 April 2010 - 01:15 PM.

[baradar_jackson]

bandekhoda, on 22 April 2010 - 12:53 PM, said:

the way they are dealing with the situation tells you alot about what really happened in the election. if they are in the majority, why use such force against the minority?

Minorities are not necessarily impotent. A Sunni minority ruled over Iraq for decades.

Minorities can be very politically relevant (and large). The fact that force is needed to suppress the voice of a minority does not mean that they are any less of a minority.

bandekhoda, on 22 April 2010 - 12:53 PM, said:

there is no such a thing in islam as doing wrong for a greater good. In islam you cannot even slap a prisoner to make him confess... yes the "bigger picture" is if he confesses and you get more information out of him you can identify his accomplices and imprison them, and then you'll have a safer society! but it's not allowed, end of!

But there is a concept of doing wrong for greater good. For example, it is acceptable to deceive and distort if something is a matter of national security.

bandekhoda, on 22 April 2010 - 12:53 PM, said:

that's exactly what the iranian media wants to portray. they are so distant from their own people, that they fail to even CONSIDER that maybeeee if was REALLY their own people who were angry with the results of the election and wanted to come to the streets to voice their anger.

Real anger, yes. But a fake source.

bandekhoda, on 22 April 2010 - 12:53 PM, said:

you know it's funny how every time people are opposing the government it is labelled as a "coup". I don't trust the american media...or the british media. I don't need a foreign media to tell me what is going on in my own country.

Look at our history and you will see the legitimacy in that claim.

Look at what the policymakers in the West are saying and you will see the legitimacy in that claim.

It is no secret that they have been trying to undermine the government of the IRI for years. Surely you understand that.

[DoubleAgent4]

bandekhoda, on 21 April 2010 - 06:03 PM, said:

it is not at all important whether the results were rigged or not.. .what matters is what happened AFTER the election
I personally lost respect for khamenei

Me too!

bandekhoda, on 21 April 2010 - 07:33 PM, said:

people did not need to see a utube video on BBC to find out that a woman was shot, another beaten, another pushed off a bridge, etc etc. they were THERE. that's what triggered a reaction!

if ahmadinejad had not publicly slandered hashemi and his family, and had not (on state television) put a huge question mark on the past 30 yrs of revolution, people would not have reacted this way. if khamenei had not congratulated ahmadinejad before the completion of the vote countings, and if the government had allowed peaceful demonstrations to take place, none of this would've happened.

I don't think it's all paranoia. but i know that the only thing that unites iranians is a threat from the "enemy". that's why it is used so often by khamenei in his speeches. If he doesn't pass the blame, how would he justify killing innocent people on the streets or raping innocent political prisoners?

Noone on this forum believed me when I said how can he justify killing innocent people or raping political prisoners! These are the threads where I shared my views on: http://www.shiachat....volution-day/

Edited by Hawraa29, 22 April 2010 - 02:54 PM.

[iraqi_shia]

bandekhoda, on 21 April 2010 - 06:03 PM, said:

it is not at all important whether the results were rigged or not.. .what matters is what happened AFTER the election
I personally lost respect for khamenei

What should the government have done? Allow a foriegn supported mob to take over the country?

I, and every rational person would lose respect for any government that would allow that. Its as simple as that, to support the rebels is to support corruption.