177 replies to this topic

[Storm Large]

Kaaba is a muslim term for God's dwelling place, and we cannot see God dwelling there.

Tabernacle or mishkan was/is YHVH's dwelling place and jews could ACTUALLY see God dwelling there.

The Tabernacle (Hebrew משכן, mishkan, "residence" or "dwelling place"), according to theHebrew bible/Old Testament, was the portable dwelling place for the divine presence from the time of the Exodus from Egypt through the conquering of the land of Canaan. Built to the specification of YHWH as revealed to Moses at Mount Sinai, it accompanied the Israelites on their wanderings in the wilderness and their conquest of the Promised Land, and was eventually placed in the First Temple in Jerusalem, which superseded it as the dwelling-place of God among the Israelites. It is not mentioned after the destruction of Jerusalem by the Babylonians.

The fullest description of the Tabernacle describes an inner shrine (Holy of Holies) housing the Ark and an outer chamber (Holy Place), with a golden lampstand, table for shewbread, and altar of incense.[1] This description is generally identified as part of the Priestly source (P),[1] written in the 6th or 5th century BC. Many scholars contend that it is of a far later date than Moses, and that the description reflects the structure of the Temple of Solomon, while some hold that the description derives from memories of a real pre-monarchic shrine, perhaps the sanctuary at Shiloh.[1] An earlier, pre-exilic source (E) describes the Tabernacle as a simple tent-sanctuary.[1]


The commandments for its construction are taken from the words in the Book of Exodus when God says to Moses: "They shall make me a sanctuary, and I will dwell (ve-shakhan-ti) among them. You must make the tabernacle (mishkan) and all its furnishings following the plan that I am showing you." (Exodus 25:8-10). Thus the idea is that God wants this structure built so that it may be a "dwelling", so to speak, for his presence within the Children of Israel following the Exodus.






See, God actually used to dwell there. Why can't we see Allah in or around Kaaba?

[ShiaSoldier@2007]

Kaaba is a muslim term for God's dwelling place, and we cannot see God dwelling there.

Tabernacle or mishkan was/is YHVH's dwelling place and jews could ACTUALLY see God dwelling there.

The Tabernacle (Hebrew משכן, mishkan, "residence" or "dwelling place"), according to theHebrew bible/Old Testament, was the portable dwelling place for the divine presence from the time of the Exodus from Egypt through the conquering of the land of Canaan. Built to the specification of YHWH as revealed to Moses at Mount Sinai, it accompanied the Israelites on their wanderings in the wilderness and their conquest of the Promised Land, and was eventually placed in the First Temple in Jerusalem, which superseded it as the dwelling-place of God among the Israelites. It is not mentioned after the destruction of Jerusalem by the Babylonians.

The fullest description of the Tabernacle describes an inner shrine (Holy of Holies) housing the Ark and an outer chamber (Holy Place), with a golden lampstand, table for shewbread, and altar of incense.[1] This description is generally identified as part of the Priestly source (P),[1] written in the 6th or 5th century BC. Many scholars contend that it is of a far later date than Moses, and that the description reflects the structure of the Temple of Solomon, while some hold that the description derives from memories of a real pre-monarchic shrine, perhaps the sanctuary at Shiloh.[1] An earlier, pre-exilic source (E) describes the Tabernacle as a simple tent-sanctuary.[1]


The commandments for its construction are taken from the words in the Book of Exodus when God says to Moses: "They shall make me a sanctuary, and I will dwell (ve-shakhan-ti) among them. You must make the tabernacle (mishkan) and all its furnishings following the plan that I am showing you." (Exodus 25:8-10). Thus the idea is that God wants this structure built so that it may be a "dwelling", so to speak, for his presence within the Children of Israel following the Exodus.






See, God actually used to dwell there. Why can't we see Allah in or around Kaaba?

God used to dwell there until he moved to the kaaba .
In all seriousness you can't even stare at the sun without going blind, so how can you even see god?

[Maula Dha Mallang]

you are relying on a book written hundreds of years after jesus dissapeared, written by no one on earth knows who into greek even though jesus spoke aramaic, then translated AGAIN into latin...and THEN translated into english...of which there are over 100 versions in english alone.

how do you know what the book says or doesnt say when you try and read that jumbled mess? how do you know its not talking about something totally different and mundane, or even symbolically/ allegorically?

[ShiaSoldier@2007]

I think if they could really see god then they would have way more converts. There would be no excuse for athiests. Secondly where did god go?

[Tayyeb_Jaan]

Kaaba is a muslim term for God's dwelling place, and we cannot see God dwelling there.

Tabernacle or mishkan was/is YHVH's dwelling place and jews could ACTUALLY see God dwelling there.

The Tabernacle (Hebrew משכן, mishkan, "residence" or "dwelling place"), according to theHebrew bible/Old Testament, was the portable dwelling place for the divine presence from the time of the Exodus from Egypt through the conquering of the land of Canaan. Built to the specification of YHWH as revealed to Moses at Mount Sinai, it accompanied the Israelites on their wanderings in the wilderness and their conquest of the Promised Land, and was eventually placed in the First Temple in Jerusalem, which superseded it as the dwelling-place of God among the Israelites. It is not mentioned after the destruction of Jerusalem by the Babylonians.

The fullest description of the Tabernacle describes an inner shrine (Holy of Holies) housing the Ark and an outer chamber (Holy Place), with a golden lampstand, table for shewbread, and altar of incense.[1] This description is generally identified as part of the Priestly source (P),[1] written in the 6th or 5th century BC. Many scholars contend that it is of a far later date than Moses, and that the description reflects the structure of the Temple of Solomon, while some hold that the description derives from memories of a real pre-monarchic shrine, perhaps the sanctuary at Shiloh.[1] An earlier, pre-exilic source (E) describes the Tabernacle as a simple tent-sanctuary.[1]


The commandments for its construction are taken from the words in the Book of Exodus when God says to Moses: "They shall make me a sanctuary, and I will dwell (ve-shakhan-ti) among them. You must make the tabernacle (mishkan) and all its furnishings following the plan that I am showing you." (Exodus 25:8-10). Thus the idea is that God wants this structure built so that it may be a "dwelling", so to speak, for his presence within the Children of Israel following the Exodus.






See, God actually used to dwell there. Why can't we see Allah in or around Kaaba?

Looks like a Jewish Black Magic Festival.

Edited by Tayyeb_Jaan, 09 June 2009 - 05:51 PM.

[Storm Large]

God used to dwell there until he moved to the kaaba .

Thats my question. Why can't we see God in or around the Kaaba?

In all seriousness you can't even stare at the sun without going blind, so how can you even see god?

Thats true but God did show himself to jews many times, even Prophet Muhammad.

you are relying on a book written hundreds of years after jesus dissapeared,

You talking about koran there.

written by no one on earth knows who into greek even though jesus spoke aramaic, then translated AGAIN into latin...and THEN translated into english...of which there are over 100 versions in english alone.

same can be said about koran.

how do you know what the book says or doesnt say when you try and read that jumbled mess? how do you know its not talking about something totally different and mundane, or even symbolically/ allegorically?

such questions can be asked to muslims about their koran as well. Stay on topic.

Btw shias consider Imam Ali to be the face of Allah and he was born there? Difference is that in the Tabernacle God showed himself whenever summoned upon or whenever he desired.

Imam Ali was just born in Kaabah and nowadays its just like a HOUSE of God instead of being a HOME for God .

Jews want to rebuild their temple so that God can show his face to them and place the entire planet again. That is why i am in support of building of the Third temple.



See how beautiful the temple will look

[Tayyeb_Jaan]

Thats my question. Why can't we see God in or around the Kaaba?

Bro, Allah (s) has no body. We cannot see him physically.

A man once came to Imam Ja'far Sadiq and asked him "where is God", The Imam replied, "Look at the Sun." The man looked, than turned away. The Imam asked, "Why did you look away?" He replied, "The Sun was too bright". Therefore the Imam said, "If you can't look at what's created what makes you think you can see the creator?

Thats true but God did show himself to jews many times, even Prophet Muhammad.

Again, not true, what are your sources, random Internet articles don't count

Edited by Tayyeb_Jaan, 10 June 2009 - 04:35 AM.

[Storm Large]

Again, not true, what are your sources, random Internet articles don't count

Your hadith quote don't count either.

What is the need for a "house of God" when God is Laa Makaan?

[Tayyeb_Jaan]

Laa Makaan?

?

What is the need for a "house of God"

Don't we call Masjids (Mosques) the "House of God"? Of course, we don't mean he actually lives there, we only mean a place where he is worshiped, same goes with the Kaaba. The only reason why the Kaaba is referred to the House of God is because it is the most superior of all the places of worship on Earth. That's why it's called The House of God

Your hadith quote don't count either.

I don't think you've realized the point. How do you expectt to see the creator when you cannot even see the created! Talk about aiming high lol

Edited by Tayyeb_Jaan, 10 June 2009 - 05:14 AM.

[Storm Large]

?





Don't we call Masjids (Mosques) the "House of God"? Of course, we don't mean he actually lives there, we only mean a place where he is worshiped, same goes with the Kaaba. The only reason why the Kaaba is referred to the House of God is because it is the most superior of all the places of worship on Earth. That's why it's called The House of God

Kaaba is "the House of God" whereas Tabernacle was "the Home of God" and more glorious too. That is why Muhammad faced the Holy Temple till he was told to move his direction to Makkah.

I don't think you've realized the point. How do you expectt to see the creator when you cannot even see the created! Talk about aiming high lol

We can see the sun.

[Tayyeb_Jaan]

Kaaba is "the House of God" whereas Tabernacle was "the Home of God" and more glorious too. That is why Muhammad faced the Holy Temple till he was told to move his direction to Makkah.

I wonder why the Prophet was told to change his Qiblah

We can see the sun.

Try looking at it directly.

[Storm Large]

I wonder why the Prophet was told to change his Qiblah

He was surrounded by pig-headed arabs who were jealous of the israelites and their chosen status. These sahabas complained to prophet about them facing jewish Temple since jews were taunting these arabs of copying their religion.

[Tayyeb_Jaan]

He was surrounded by pig-headed arabs who were jealous of the israelites and their chosen status. These sahabas complained to prophet about them facing jewish Temple since jews were taunting these arabs of copying their religion.

So your saying the Prophet changed the Qiblah? Only Allah (s) can make that decision.

Edited by Tayyeb_Jaan, 10 June 2009 - 03:01 PM.

[Storm Large]

So your saying the Prophet changed the Qiblah? Only Allah (s) can make that decision.

He is a waseela to God's fazilaah.

[yonus]

Thats my question. Why can't we see God in or around the Kaaba?

God can't be seen even in solomon temble .

Thats true but God did show himself to jews many times, even Prophet Muhammad.

My friend , the jews owners of old testament say it was angel of the Lord .

Jews want to rebuild their temple so that God can show his face to them and place the entire planet again. That is why i am in support of building of the Third temple.

They will never see the Lord not even his angel . The angel comes down to the prophets only including Maryam albatool .

How come he comes down to criminals like jews , impossible .

[iraqi_shia]

why are you arguing with him?


He has the crayon coloured picture to proof it! The argument is over!

God is in his drawings!

lol where do you even start with this guy?

[-=Sajjad=-]

How could they actually "see" God?.. he has no shape or form, limitless- to place God into the category of something that can be seen is an insult.. all that picture shows is an "act of God".. and if you're so proud of it, where did it go?

[Storm Large]

Those who havent read Koran are making fun of this ...

Koran talks about his face, his throne, him coming with clouds with his army of angels, etc.

[Tayyeb_Jaan]

Those who havent read Koran are making fun of this ...

Koran talks about his face, his throne, him coming with clouds with his army of angels, etc.

Those are called Metaphors.

[SayYaAli]

"They shall make me a sanctuary, and I will dwell (ve-shakhan-ti) among them. You must make the tabernacle (mishkan) and all its furnishings following the plan that I am showing you." (Exodus 25:8-10).

That sounds pretty and if it is true I would take it metaphorically. Something like a masjid or a rauza where the remembrance of God is alive.

No Muslim believe we can see Allah or that He literally dwells anywhere limited.

Dhi`lib al-Yamani asked Amir al-mu'minin whether he had seen Allah, when he replied, "Do I worship one whom I have not seen?" Then he enquired, "How have you seen Him?" Then Amir al-mu'minin replied:

Eyes do not see Him face to face, but hearts perceive Him through the realities of belief. He is near to things but not (physically) contiguous. He is far from them but not (physically) separate. He is a speaker, but not with reflection. He intends, but not with preparation. He moulds, but not with (the assistance of) limbs. He is subtle but cannot be attributed with being concealed. He is great but cannot be attributed with haughtiness. He sees but cannot be attributed with the sense (of sight). He is Merciful but cannot be attributed with weakness of heart. Faces feel low before His greatness and hearts tremble out of fear of Him.

Kaaba is "the House of God" whereas Tabernacle was "the Home of God" and more glorious too.

Huh? How'd you figure that?


As regards the Quran and Bible translations, our Quran has been translated but we do not call the translation the Quran, it is a translation written by the hands of human beings. The only authentic Quran is the Arabic Quran proper. While the Bible the Christians hold as authentic is seldom if ever compared to the original by its devotees.

[Storm Large]

I still think that God prefers Moses over Muhammad even in the Quran Moses is mentioned more and it seems Jews and their history is unique and more glorious. Parting of the red sea. Tabenacle

[Aabiss_Shakari]

Useless thread. Storm Large change your religious status. Why you lie when you are not Shia?

[Storm Large]

aabis shakari is useless..

as far as my religious status is concerned.. it chose that by default and iam not wasting time on changing it just because some hater of truth forces me to.

[Qa'im]

The fact that I cannot see Allah confirms His supremacy; what kind of god would be bound to physical structure, or limited to the point where I can see him with my human eyes, when we cannot even directly look at some of His creation? You can keep your space tentacle. Allah is greater.

[Storm Large]

The fact that I cannot see Allah confirms His supremacy; what kind of god would be bound to physical structure, or limited to the point where I can see him with my human eyes, when we cannot even directly look at some of His creation? You can keep your space tentacle. Allah is greater.

And i cannot see ghosts spirits antimatter etc.. does that confirm their supremacy?

If you cannot something or some entity, is it necessary that entity even exists?