134 replies to this topic

[Kismet]

lotfilms, on May 4 2009, 06:08 PM, said:

Could anyone else provide please provide sahih hadiths that explicitly say it is forbidden?

Because when we look at masturbation (and especially it's similarity to wet dreams) from a critical angle, it is not as forbidden as people make it out to seem.

I believe there is a hadith from Imam Jafar as-Sadiq saying that it is a detested act?  But then again so is divorce, yet it is halal.

Anyone care to partake in this discussion?  Inshallah someone can please give us an answer of why it is so prohibited.

wa salam and may the Best Guide, God, show us to the best path ameeeen

Brother

I have no idea, whether this is an authentic narration or not, but I found this, in the following book:
http://www.al-islam.org/flowers/

Quote

Once, 'Ammar ibn Musa asked Imam Sadiq [a] about commiting sexual intercourse with beasts or masterbation by the hand or other limbs of one's ownself, and he [a] replied: "Any form of these kinds and the like of them by which man pours forth his water, is (considered as) fornication (and it is unlawful)."
AI-Kafi, vol. 5, p. 541

Also, I found the following, in this book:
http://www.al-islam....orals/index.htm

Quote

Once a person was caught masturbating and was brought to Imam 'Ali. The Imam punished him by beating on his hands until it turned red; then he made arrangement for his marriage on government's expenses. (Wasa'il, vol. 14, p. 267; vol. 18, pp. 574-5)

Also, in accordance with the Chinese Herbalists, Masturbation IS a physiologically and psychologically harmful activity; they have a rich collection of articles that discuss this issue:

http://www.herballov...source/overmas/

I am sorry, I cannot be of more help, in answering your questions, or discussing the issues raised.

[ash-shaheed]

lotfilms, on May 5 2009, 08:28 AM, said:

The after-effects are very noticeable as well.  So, while the act of masturbating may more enjoyable than wet dreams, the spring-in-step effect one gets after have wet dreams is more rewarding and enjoyable than the cold, dull (almost stoned-liked) feeling one gets from masturbating, especially when one has been doing it for awhile.

Bro, I know exactly what you mean by this, and perhaps this is the primary reason why masturbation is haraam. After one masturbates, there is a stoned-type feeling. For me, this was because I felt disappointed/angry at myself for not being able to control my urge, and for engaging in a double haraam (masturbating and looking at pornography, and if it was late at night, tripe haraam - not being clean for fajr prayers in the morning). So, after I would do the deed, I would feel pretty depressed/down for a few hours afterwards, and not really want to talk to anyone or even have the energy to do anything constructive. I'd just waste time. Ultimately I think masturbation is bad for us because it really hurts our spiritual relationship with Allah (SWT), like all other sins.

On the other hand, after a wet dream, one has none of these accompanying feelings. If anything, like you said, I feel better for having relieved myself, and decreased the sexual tension I'm feeling, without having committed a sin. Al-hamdullilah!

Edited by ash-shaheed, 05 May 2009 - 05:57 PM.

[Darth Vader]

Bro lotfilms all your hadeeth are fine and jazak Allah khair for posting them. What the Imams say is absolutely true. But its also one side of the picture that you have shown. The Qur'an, hadeeth-e-nabawi and the blessed Imams have also shown how to keep the wives in line. The problem is that in today's age most women are taught to be rebellious and encouraged beyond reason to ask for "all of their rights" which in turn oppresses the man instead. Sadly, such women care very little for all that is given to them and can't see to their own reality let alone the divine intent and commandments and choose to stay rebellious (me and my malang friends fondly refer to all such women as "Ayesha"). My previous post was meant while keeping these facts in mind. Otherwise I still love women and have no problems with them or their affairs myself however after observing their kind for a while now, I am lead to feel the way I do by noticing their often ungrateful and rebellious behavior. Instead of losing the hair on my head due to all such unnecessary squabling I thought that it would be best to completely avoid having to do anything with them.

Dealing with women is like having a lot of pipes with many leaks in them and you are hogged all the time because the patches covering the leaks re-open themselves for no reason at all. My wife, although a very good woman, still keeps some of my old angry SMS's in her mobile that I sent to her on a certain occasion, for example, and shows them to me from time to time. Reminds me how I corrected her but doesn't remember why I corrected her and what for. I grow tired of all such repeated emotional blackmail and it makes me think "What for?". Its really stupid what they do. I keep her completely unoppressed, happy and all her needs more than taken care of until she trangresses her limit. I assume the politest and friendliest attitude and despite all this I know she doesn't trust me or feel the same for me. I am somewhat more of a walking wallet and food dispenser for the kids to her. It takes a lot of effort and even oppression to knock some sense into her or to explain why things aren't done according to her wishes. Perhaps I wrongly expect sensibility from her? Maybe all women are like this? I don't know. I do feel that I would have been better off without having inaugurated this whole business with marriage.

[wayfarer.]

^ my heartfelt sympathies for you bro.  It goes without saying that Allah s.w.t is witnessing everything and inshAllah you will be rewarded handsomely in the Hereafter

[fadakfatema]

No one has replied my question. Which is beter to do muta and loose respect in the eyes of society when nikah is not possible?

[wayfarer.]

fadakfatema, on May 6 2009, 01:58 PM, said:

No one has replied my question. Which is beter to do muta and loose respect in the eyes of society when nikah is not possible?

Which is better to do- disobey Allah and gain respect of society or obey Allah and lose respect in the eyes of society? think..

[Ali Huzaifa]

bro ibhrahim dont get upset....we do have ayesha's but we do have fatema's tooo....there is no reason to generalize any gender male or female.

[fadakfatema]

Alhumdolilllah, on May 6 2009, 07:00 AM, said:

Which is better to do- disobey Allah and gain respect of society or obey Allah and lose respect in the eyes of society? think..

So Allah allows us to loose respect instead of mastrubation.

[asphyxiated]

Ibrahim Nakhaee, on May 6 2009, 03:27 AM, said:

Dealing with women is like having a lot of pipes with many leaks in them and you are hogged all the time because the patches covering the leaks re-open themselves for no reason at all. My wife, although a very good woman, still keeps some of my old angry SMS's in her mobile that I sent to her on a certain occasion, for example, and shows them to me from time to time. Reminds me how I corrected her but doesn't remember why I corrected her and what for. I grow tired of all such repeated emotional blackmail and it makes me think "What for?". Its really stupid what they do. I keep her completely unoppressed, happy and all her needs more than taken care of until she trangresses her limit. I assume the politest and friendliest attitude and despite all this I know she doesn't trust me or feel the same for me. I am somewhat more of a walking wallet and food dispenser for the kids to her. It takes a lot of effort and even oppression to knock some sense into her or to explain why things aren't done according to her wishes. Perhaps I wrongly expect sensibility from her? Maybe all women are like this? I don't know. I do feel that I would have been better off without having inaugurated this whole business with marriage.

This is part of the reason why I can't understand why so many men are eager to get married. You probably shouldn't expect too much sensibility. This kind of school yard nonsense just proves the expectations men have to cope with these days. This is the sort of squabble that makes me turn away at the prospect of marriage. Your predicament makes me cringe. It also makes me realize why I have no patience for women.

I sympathize with your predicament and wish you the best of luck.

[Dirac Delta function]

asphyxiated, on May 6 2009, 02:42 PM, said:

This is part of the reason why I can't understand why so many men are eager to get married. You probably shouldn't expect too much sensibility. This kind of school yard nonsense just proves the expectations men have to cope with these days. This is the sort of squabble that makes me turn away at the prospect of marriage. Your predicament makes me cringe. It also makes me realize why I have no patience for women.

I sympathize with your predicament and wish you the best of luck.

Serial mut'afication has it's downsides too bro, life was not meant to be easy. But I maintain permamarriage is a good thing overall, even if you do ave to put up with a lot of crap.

[lotfilms]

Kismet, on May 5 2009, 06:23 PM, said:

Brother
I am sorry, I cannot be of more help, in answering your questions, or discussing the issues raised.

Thank for for the references brother

fadakfatema, on May 6 2009, 04:28 AM, said:

No one has replied my question. Which is beter to do muta and loose respect in the eyes of society when nikah is not possible?

It's better than having a girlfriend, having sex with her, then dumping her and moving on to the next one.



I think a lot of Shia are too quick to say "get a Mutah!"  It's almost as hard as permanent marriage tbh, especially for teens

[Musa]

Mutah is hard... unless you go about doing haram things such as hugging/flirting then its easy.... but i would think most mutahs are caused by haram actions... no way some dude can get 50 mutahs in a month unless he does these types of things.... or he gets hooked up by an alim or something.

[baradar_jackson]

fadakfatema, on May 6 2009, 03:28 AM, said:

No one has replied my question. Which is beter to do muta and loose respect in the eyes of society when nikah is not possible?

There is a third option brother!
You can control yourself and do neither until you can eventually get a permanent marriage....

[satyaban]

Ibrahim Nakhaee:

I have found some of your posts to be disturbing such as the following.

"If there was nothing wrong with masturbation, somehow, and if it was deemed allowable in religion I'm sure there would be many people who would have simply avoided marriage altogether. There would be so less chaos and population crisis in the world and women would either be much better off or far worse if sex was a more subtle thing than it is. Condoms help but still . . ."

To make a statement like this implies that you have a very unhappy married life.:-( Do you really think that people would shun marriage if it were OK to masturbate? That it gets so much attention here is driven by the median age of members. I remember times I was in school and having spontaneous erections causing a bulge in my pants I would hide with a notebook, those were days of raging hormones and learning to cope with them.

I believe masturbation was discouraged in early societies and carried over to religion is because numbers of members was key to survival of the group so a high birthrate was important. Masturbation would satisfy the misunderstood urge to procreate and not have sex with their opposites as often or when their opposite was uncooperative. Scriptures of my faith say that the male "seed should not touch the ground."


"Dealing with women is like having a lot of pipes with many leaks in them and you are hogged all the time because the patches covering the leaks re-open themselves for no reason at all. My wife, although a very good woman, still keeps some of my old angry SMS's in her mobile that I sent to her on a certain occasion, for example, and shows them to me from time to time. Reminds me how I corrected her but doesn't remember why I corrected her and what for."

The use of the word correction makes me wonder what your position is in your household, are condescending?

"I assume the politest and friendliest attitude and despite all this I know she doesn't trust me or feel the same for me. I am somewhat more of a walking wallet and food dispenser for the kids to her"

Perhaps she sees your politeness and friendliness as a guise you assume?

Well anyway good luck.

[Darth Vader]

LOL I had a hunch someone like you would come along and say something along those lines. However, atleast I try to be honest and have no double standards, I am what I am. And no my married life isn't too bad at all. I think you've got me wrong. This is my second marriage, the first one lasted like 15 days because the girl already had a relation since 4 years secretly, so being a nice person at heart I just had to call it bad luck and let her go without a single bad word, infact I was doing myself a favor by getting rid of that shameless girl (I've explained it in detail in a thread here before). So I can confidently say that my opinion is based on the results of some oft recurring observations of mine about today's more modern, "broad minded" women (and such women only) that most men might never feel because it needs extra fine scrutiny to beginwith and its only because I care about such things. You probably find it disturbing because it stomps on your precious little modern world, its wicked ways and its most tainted society.

Also dude married life is a very big thing. Its not just you and your wife and romance. There are kids in it too in a much bigger way than you can possibly imagine if you're unmarried. I miss my freedom because I can see it going wrong. There's little I can do without oppressing my wife and I don't like doing that unless it becomes necessary. You can call me weak and selfish for having the thought of wanting out of it all but I do feel that way at times. I also fear that these kids will most probably be "lost" since they will watch TV with their mum, will go to school, will move among the civilized people and their children, and will grow up among aunts who are actually harlots in reality and uncles who are actually vicious womanizers in sheeps skin and pretend to be moral and model "civilized" members of your perfect world and society. I pointed it out to my wife that she should get rid of the TV set but she won't. I'm sure you find nothing wrong with the TV because it only teaches the subtle but effective messages to turn people into what they are becoming and precisely what you would like them to be.

Edited by Ibrahim Nakhaee, 06 May 2009 - 04:17 PM.

[Marbles]

Ibrahim Nakhaee, on May 6 2009, 10:10 PM, said:

LOL I had a hunch someone like you would come along and say something along those lines. However, atleast I try to be honest and have no double standards, I am what I am. And no my married life isn't too bad at all. I think you've got me wrong. This is my second marriage, the first one lasted like 15 days because the girl already had a relation since 4 years secretly, so being a nice person at heart I just had to call it bad luck and let her go without a single bad word, infact I was doing myself a favor by getting rid of that shameless girl (I've explained it in detail in a thread here before). So I can confidently say that my opinion is based on the results of some oft recurring observations of mine about today's more modern, "broad minded" women (and such women only) that most men might never feel because it needs extra fine scrutiny to beginwith and its only because I care about such things. You probably find it disturbing because it stomps on your precious little modern world, its wicked ways and its most tainted society.

Also dude married life is a very big thing. Its not just you and your wife and romance. There are kids in it too in a much bigger way than you can possibly imagine if you're unmarried. I miss my freedom because I can see it going wrong. There's little I can do without oppressing my wife and I don't like doing that unless it becomes necessary. You can call me weak and selfish for having the thought of wanting out of it all but I do feel that way at times. I also fear that these kids will most probably be "lost" since they will watch TV with their mum, will go to school, will move among the civilized people and their children, and will grow up among aunts who are actually harlots in reality and uncles who are actually vicious womanizers in sheeps skin and pretend to be moral and model "civilized" members of your perfect world and society. I pointed it out to my wife that she should get rid of the TV set but she won't. I'm sure you find nothing wrong with the TV because it only teaches the subtle but effective messages to turn people into what they are becoming and precisely what you would like them to be.

Boy do I see a struggle between diminishing ethos of a conservative society and ever more asserting imperatives of the wicked modern world.

Don't worry brother you are not alone in this. It is already tearing apart a many. One person two worlds. Which one to live in, is the million dollar question.

I wish you all the best in your life, married and social, individual and collective, good times and especially for times which are hard.

[Darth Vader]

Well I have to thank you all for your sincere wishes. As a sidenote, I personally find it ironic and a bit amusing that we discussed all this in a thread meant for discussing masturbation.

[Jannati]

Salam,

Masturbation is not only confined to brothers .. its also very common amongst sisters ..

[Jannati]

Salam,

One doesnt loose his/ her respect by doing Mu'tah ..

[haider786_raza]

masturbation is a never ending practise.
you do it once its obvious you will do it again and again and again till you are totally infertile and lost all that excitement of pleasing your mate,then when you get married it affects yoiur relationship badly.
If you control yourself from this dirty practise inshallah you will have a happy married life andyou will be able to enjoy much of your sexual life with your mate.
Wet dreams throw out some of the semen just to make SOME space for new semen to come but
masturbation leads to forcing of your organs and this weakens the system dangerously.However its effects are pretty much slow but its a very harmful habit.

[fadakfatema]

Jannati, on May 21 2009, 09:59 AM, said:

Salam,

One doesnt loose his/ her respect by doing Mu'tah ..

Is it? Which world are u living in? Or are u one of those Pakistanis encouraging virgin girls to do muta?

[Three Temples Kung Fu]

Masturbation will drain your essence and weaken you. It has always been instructed against by every prophet. Learn to stop this habit and to regulate your ejaculation with women as ahadeeth says Muhammad did, and you will thus find the benefits of the Sunnah.

[Frosty]

Personally masturbation always made me feel pathetic hence why I never do it.

I think one should train oneself to be disciplined and not let your lusts control you.

[Researcher]

If you can't get married for socio-economic or other reasons, and you can't find a woman for mutah (as will be the case if you live in the west), then you will have this dilemma. This problem is nothing new, which is why there are such hadiths available that seem to forbid masturbation. The fact is, if you have no woman then you can try your best to avoid masturbation and you will succeed for a time before you fail if you are healthy in body. If you learn to stop this habit with mind over matter, all you have learned is how to make yourself a eunuch. Wouldn't it be unjust if one man can marry at 18 and another reaches 30 but cannot marry as he doesn't have the money? And then the former man has half his religion complete and the latter is committing 'haram' acts you say?

This is why I doubt the authenticity of these anti-masturbation hadiths. Even if they are authentic, do they forbid the offence of public indecency (masturbation in public) or private acts? Surely the effect of a blanket prohibition on masturbation means that all unmarried young men are sinners, and that would be ridiculous. A little common sense and honesty goes a long way. Does masturbation void your faith or just your ballls?

[Researcher]

If masturbation is forbidden then it would be mentioned in the Qur'an and people wouldn't have 'allegedly' asked our Imams these strange questions. Not to mention that many hadiths are unreliable and so to use them as the basis for saying it's 'haram' is equally unreliable.