85 replies to this topic

[Whizbee]

Salam Alaykum.

We were having a discussion about zanjeer/qama here and I was curious as to what revert brothers and sisters thought when they first saw these acts of self-mutilation. Please make sure you vote.

Thanks in advance.

[zainab_]

salaam sister

I voted and at this point we all know what my vote was I also posted in the revert thread asking all the reverts to vote if possible here as well so inshallah we will see what all the reverts think.

I am not saying that seeing tatbir is going to make someone go wow, totally awesome, I want to do that, but what it does do, is make people question why we are doing that, in turn making people research and learn more about our beliefs. my thoughts anyway.

take care sis

Khoda Hafiz and Ya Ali Madat  

Edited by zainab_, 16 January 2009 - 08:54 AM.

[Nocturne]

I don't see: neither option

[Ali Mahdi]

I don't agree with either choice. I'm a revert, but "blood-letting" didn't turn me away from Shi'ism nor did it attract me. I didn't know about the subject when I reverted to Islam.

This is a great article on the subject:
"Why do some Shi’a Muslims flog themselves during the month of Muharram?" http://revertmuslims.com/flogging.html

[hasen's slave]

I don't agree with either choice. I'm a born shia, but "blood-letting" didn't turn me away from Shi'ism nor did it attract me.  

[hasen's slave]

  

   sister
  its funny option but im sure about it.
  

Edited by hasen's slave, 17 January 2009 - 10:34 AM.

[zainab_]

well, I am thinking as a born muslim maybe you might want to rethink this choice, as it may have possibly made u not want to be muslim anymore.
as thus far only the born muslims and not the converts to the faith are thinking this way.



http://www.shiachat....=...t&p=1803522

one of our members made this post not too terribly long ago, so I am reposting it here and linking it:

Quote

Ya Ali Madad

Same here, I am also a convert to shi,ism, and think that zanjir/tatbir is one of the most beutifull things anyone can do from there love
of Imam Hussein (a.s.) in fact its one of the things which brought me to shi,ism because after i became muslim i saw the tatbir mawakib on the TV ( after the downfall of
saddam (LA) in Iraq) This made me understand how important the event of Karbala was and i went and read about it as i did not know much about islamic history at all
at the time.

Another thing, so many on this board are saying things like "the marjas do not allow it" as if sayed khamenei and sayed fadlallah are the only maraja. For your information
my marja, sayed sadiq al-shirazi says tatbir/qama zani is very mustahab, whether in public or in private.

In my opinion, it is no shame, in fact it is a great honour to shed ones blood for love of Imam Hussein.

all of the born muslims on this site think that its just me and that somehow I am just an anomoly but I really dont think I am. and so far this poll is proving it.

Edited by zainab_, 17 January 2009 - 12:53 PM.

[hasen's slave]

[Muhammed Ali]

i made a similar thread some years ago : http://www.shiachat....?showtopic=8816

[Whizbee]

Muhammed Ali, on Jan 19 2009, 03:02 AM, said:

i made a similar thread some years ago : http://www.shiachat....?showtopic=8816

Yeah but I am more interested in seeing how many people vote for the first option.

[Anjaam]

why am I not able to vote in this poll?

[Whizbee]

^You are a basic member. That's why.

You need 50 posts before you can vote.

I suggest you start spamming.

[hasen's slave]

zainab_, on Jan 17 2009, 11:57 AM, said:

well, I am thinking as a born muslim maybe you might want to rethink this choice, as it may have possibly made u not want to be muslim anymore.
as thus far only the born muslims and not the converts to the faith are thinking this way.



http://www.shiachat....=...t&p=1803522

one of our members made this post not too terribly long ago, so I am reposting it here and linking it:

and anther post

hasen, on Jan 17 2009, 12:36 PM, said:

  

answer to the main question is that peoples of other faiths r  inspired by these extreem forms of matam.

1st of all every action by any muslim if it is according to shreah-e-muhammadi ( ) should be 4 Allah's will and his qurb ( Qurba-ten-ill-Allah) whatever any other say    ..............................

link ....
http://www.shiachat....h...0766&st=100

[Advocate of Islam]

  

hi, to be drawn to shia Islam because you see some one cutting themselves is rather maccarb I think. i don't agree or disagree and I personally don't think it's nessesary to go that far as to let blood but if that's what they feel is the best way to show their love for the Imam's then who am I to say no, but I do think they should see how the none shia see this practice and what their reaction is to it.
I don't think anything which repluses people from  shia Islam should be done in front of them. It will give the wrong impression as to what our beliefs are.   Now more than ever with the media, T.V, Internet, ect. we should all be aware of how we portray Islam and as Shia muslims we want to draw people to it not repluse them
I am not saying that they should not do it but if it is something which sicken's and causes none Shia to swear and call us or our religion stupid or sick, then we should find a way to express our feelings for what happened in Kerbala and all the other Imam's and their family and friends which doesn't repel non-shias.
Use the Media for the good of Shia Islam, more people should know what happened in Kerbala rather than seeing us beating ourselves up, the easier it is for them to revert. It would be better to do zangia on the keyboard of your computer, write about it and put this knowledge out there for others to read until your fingers bleed due to trying to teach others. this is the way of the modern world.

[zainab_]

I have a question,

did self flagellation that the christians practice repell you from christianity?

[Advocate of Islam]

zainab_, on Jan 19 2009, 08:31 PM, said:

I have a question,

did self flagellation that the christians practice repell you from christianity?

We never did any self flagellation in the sect of christianity I followed (Salvation Army) but they do believe in fighting for you belief's and in the name of God.

[Anjaam]

I still cant vote, so I will spam

Edited by Anjaam, 19 January 2009 - 05:18 PM.

[Muhammed Ali]

Whizbee, on Jan 19 2009, 06:08 AM, said:

Yeah but I am more interested in seeing how many people vote for the first option.

posted it because it has opinions of reverts too, some who are not active anymore.

anyhow we need to find out what the potential reverts think. perhaps better to ask on other forums

zainab_, on Jan 19 2009, 08:31 PM, said:

I have a question,

did self flagellation that the christians practice repell you from christianity?

no because only a tiny percentage of them do it.

Edited by Muhammed Ali, 19 January 2009 - 07:30 PM.

[zainab_]

Muhammed Ali, on Jan 19 2009, 06:31 PM, said:

posted it because it has opinions of reverts too, some who are not active anymore.

anyhow we need to find out what the potential reverts think. perhaps better to ask on other forums


no because only a tiny percentage of them do it.

how many shias do you think do this, we have what aproximately 1.5 billion muslims, they say up to 17% of those are shia, that is 255 million people. out of this 255 million people how many actually do matam involving blood, a tiny prcent, it is only seen more.

I would say there are more catholics that perform self flagelation than there are shias doing it.

[Whizbee]

Muhammed Ali, on Jan 20 2009, 06:01 AM, said:

posted it because it has opinions of reverts too, some who are not active anymore.

Yes, I understand. Thanks for posting. But as I said, I am of the opinion that most reverts would be repelled from Shi'ism but Sister zainab_ said that isn't the case and I wanted to see if the majority agree with her.

Quote

anyhow we need to find out what the potential reverts think. perhaps better to ask on other forums

Like? I don't know anything about other forums. I live on ShiaChat.

--

Also, can reverts who are voting for the first option, state their reasons? Three people voted for it. One is sis zainab_, what about the other two?

[kadhim]

zainab_, on Jan 19 2009, 07:37 PM, said:

how many shias do you think do this, we have what aproximately 1.5 billion muslims, they say up to 17% of those are shia, that is 255 million people. out of this 255 million people how many actually do matam involving blood, a tiny prcent, it is only seen more.

I would say there are more catholics that perform self flagelation than there are shias doing it.

No, not by a long shot.

[Whizbee]

Five people voted for the first option?!

Guys, you should post to say you voted for the first option or else, I'll take it that it's the malangs who are doing it.

[A true Sunni]

salaam, in all fairness what you should do is go on a general muslim revert site and do the same poll. Ask new muslim converts as to whether they considered Shiaism when reverting.

Ask the ones who decded to become sunni whether blood letting influenced them.

Further to that you could then ask sunni reverts to shiaism whether blood letting attracted them.

In reality a lot of reverts seem to stick initialy to the sect that introduced Islam to them, before branching out later.

As you recognised yourself unless people identify themselves when voting. it could lead to abuse.

salaam

[Jaffa_Shia]

Ya Ali Madad

I am one of those who voted for the first option. When i first became muslim i did not know mutch about the story of karbala but
when i saw the pictures of tatbir in iraq some time after the fall of saddam it was such a striking sight that it made me go and
research what happened to Imam Hussayn (a.s.) so i could know what it was all about. When i found out about what had happened
in karbala i was very shocked and asked myself why the sunnis dont even mention it but the shias loved Imam Hussayn (a.s.) so
much they were shedding their own blood for him. After that i started to research other issues and thats how i became shia, alhamdulillah.

A person might not necessarily be attracted to shi'ism by tatbir, zanjir etc, but it makes them ask questions and research about the history of
karbala and that can lead to conversion to shi'ism if the person has their heart opened to the truth. In my case it was after i became shia and
developed a strong love for ahlulbayt (a.s.) that i wanted to do tatbir myself.


Ajilallah ajurkum wa takkabalallah aamalakum.

[YahyaX]

I went to a Shia thing in Muharram and tapped my chest, because in small taps its not different then Sunni gatherings of zikr.