52 replies to this topic

[BabyBeaverIsAKit]

Bro_Straight_Path, on Dec 8 2008, 09:05 PM, said:

Of course you do! And do you know what happens? The natural triggers of the immune system are suppressed - and as they are suppressed and bypassed - these natural triggers of the immune system end up NOT recognizing that the body is being invaded at all and the overall immune system is ruined. This is why people become dependent upon vaccines - because the only way to try to stimulate their immune system, once its natural functioning has been suppressed via vaccination, is to, yes, get more vaccines and try to jump start them! Of course, over time, even the vaccines do not work as the internal condition of the body basically disintegrates and doesn't respond at all. That was the point of pushing vaccinations all along.

The internal immune defenses, via vaccines, are only triggered once the injected substances have DIRECTLY invaded the bloodstream resulting in the immediate alteration of your chromosomes, dna, as well as directly attacking the organs. The entire response of the body to vaccines is chaotic and results in destruction.

Again, ask yourself what happens when your home security system is bypassed and a home invader just steps right into your home without the strong, natural defenses kicking in. You only start trying to defend yourself once they've already tied you up and have a gun to your head! The entire point of the natural defense triggers is to avoid this very scenario where the virus directly goes into the blood stream and can destroy you directly without a coordinated, immune system response. Once you 'vaccinate' and bypass this 'warning/defense system' with the attending, wholistic 'coming to life' of the immune system BEFORE a virus can actually can get directly into your bloodstream, you've just placed yourself in a position of weakness and your body's ability to fight off viruses, disease, and other deliterious conditions is reduced drastically.

Dr - I apologize for the harshness of sections of my above posts, but you really ought to take a step back and think more clearly about what it is you're promoting. You are essentially advocating that people willingly kill themselves.

Okay so I haven't read this entire thread, but the posts that I did read were quite amusing.

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Vaccines aren't always made up of the virus itself. The HPV vaccine, for example, is made up of the protein surrounding the virus, which the immune system identifies as the microorganism when on fact there's no virus at all, just the outside of it. So you can't get sick with HPV after the shot, and your body generates antibodies after exposure.

I will expand upon this. So the body generates antibodies against the protein surrounding the virus. But you don't get sick with the vaccine because the vaccine only contains parts of the virus, not the entire virus. So next time your body encounters those proteins surrounding the virus, it's probably going to encounter it when it's attached to an actual virus. So your body already has antibodies that it can use to fight this virus. Makes sense? So the vaccines work with the body's natural defenses. Your body's natural defenses are not suppressed, but rather, strengthened.

[comrade]

^No matter the speculations about the supposed dangers of vaccines from the micro perspective, there is no doubt that when you look at the macro perspective, communities and societies have been helped tremendously.  There are numerous charts and graphs that indicate a decline in clinical disease, but these are mainly for industrialized countries, where the vaccinations happen to be availible.  Obviously it would be ideal for everything to be done with natural immunity (although there are many things that already are taken care of by natural immunity, which is why a lot of infections are asymptomatic), but vaccines have to be used to fill in that gap and allow us to use our biological mechanisms the best way we can.
Also, vaccinations are important for a concept known as herd immunity, which basically says that if for example only one out of ten people are vaccinated, the chance of getting the infection for everyone is reduced, because there is one less person to potentially receive and transmit the pathogen.  

And to Bro Straight Path, do you object to active vaccines only or does this extend to passive antibody immunization as well?

Edited by Shia Engineer, 06 January 2009 - 10:55 AM.

[lilacfatima]

Dr_Asad_77, on Dec 19 2008, 05:26 PM, said:

I would humbly request to all my internet Jihadi to stop BSing about medicine if they don't know how it works and what is truth! They assume that Prof. Dr. Google is always right! I would recoomend to all those ignorant to take classes and read what has been posted carefully and read from teh actual published studies in journals rather then Google video and propaganda websites  
I ask any one who wish to debate on medicine, please BRING ACTUAL STUDY PUBLISHED IN SCIENTIFIC JOURNALS........

It is warring for all the readers at SC that we got......


For internet jihadi against medicine!


For ignorant who don't accept and understand science, stay back!

salaam alaikum

ROFL

[lilacfatima]

salaam alaikum

Has anybody else heard about these people having chicken pox parties so they can expose their kids to chicken pox virus instead of getting the vaccine?

wa salaam

[Jabir ibn Hayyan]

lilacfatima, on Jan 7 2009, 09:51 AM, said:

salaam alaikum
ROFL

Waalaikum Salam,

lilacfatima, on Jan 13 2009, 09:58 AM, said:

salaam alaikum
Has anybody else heard about these people having chicken pox parties so they can expose their kids to chicken pox virus instead of getting the vaccine?
wa salaam

Walaikum Salam,
                           Never heard of chicken pox party before One gets vaccinated for it at early childhood or if one catches it before, it is treatable but quite painful for the child    

[lilacfatima]

salaam alaikum

All of my kids have been vaccinated for it. My 2 yr old got an extremely mild case just a couple of blisters, even though he got it I still had him vaccinated. I remember having the chicken pox and it wasn't pleasent.

wa salaam

[Jubei]

If you get any adverse reactions to vaccines or drugs and you live in the UK, please report it to http://yellowcard.mhra.gov.uk/

All drugs undergo extensive clinical trials, which are ongoing after their release, so more information helps.

Btw, chicken pox parties are the mild compared to some lengths people go to get weird illnesses.  I remember reading something about people who actually wanted to get HIV.

[Jabir ibn Hayyan]

The Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System (VAERS) is a national vaccine safety surveillance program co-sponsored by the Food and Drug Administration (FDA) and the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC).

Edited by Dr_Asad_77, 12 February 2009 - 06:57 PM.

[Wesam]

Dr_Asad_77, on Dec 19 2008, 01:26 PM, said:

I would humbly request to all my internet Jihadi to stop BSing about medicine if they don't know how it works and what is truth! They assume that Prof. Dr. Google is always right! I would recoomend to all those ignorant to take classes and read what has been posted carefully and read from teh actual published studies in journals rather then Google video and propaganda websites  
I ask any one who wish to debate on medicine, please BRING ACTUAL STUDY PUBLISHED IN SCIENTIFIC JOURNALS........

It is warring for all the readers at SC that we got......


For internet jihadi against medicine!


For ignorant who don't accept and understand science, stay back!

Quite a rude doctor aren't you?

The type that hates being questioned because they feel so insecure about the very little knowledge that they may have. Regurgitated slabs and slabs of information never educated a single soul. It just creates blind followers such as yourself. Much like the topic of religon. You can ear bash someone for as long as you want about Islam but in the end the proof is in the pudding or so to speak. My proof was in my pudding and I chose then what other pudding to eat.

You seem intent on bashing your ideas into peoples heads probably because you never enjoyed a thorough education but rather were strung up all those nights cramming crap into your head without any intellectual thought or questioning.

Generally when one weans a baby on to food, we find healthy foods first and foremost. We then steam, or pressure cook the vegetables enough so that they are softer and moist. We may then mash or blend the vegetables until they are moist and almost liquid like. Gently we introduce foods at the same time as breastfeeding and systematically wean them off breast milk.

But no, your idea is grabbing a cucumber and ramming it down the childs throat. In your case though, I wish it was a cucumber, something generally regarded as healthy. You're just ramming broken test tubes of toxins into people and expecting them to smile, lap it up, shut up and not question your ability to cram information and then market it like a world class infomercial ad.

Congratulations on being a doctor and being so scientific if scientific means parroting information that has been published in journals courtesy of the multibillion dollar support of pharmaceutical and drug companies.

I chose the science of questioning and not blindly accepting what people with ulterior motives have to offer. The Evangelist offers you bread in exchange for a pseudo religon. You offer vaccines in exchange for pseudo health based on bogus science backed with plenty of dollars.

Keep earning your govt cheques for you high vax rates, I know I and a growing trend of sensible Muslims will not be contributing.

Diseases always come and go in cycles and patterns. Drug companies are just very clever at monitoring these patterns and as soon as declines are evident they release their magic potions and claim fame. Kinda like a fullback running the whole field past every single player and then passing the ball off 5 meters before the goal line to the winger and then the winger taking the glory for the try.

Try pushing your BS somewhere else... perhaps to your loyal patients who keep coming back and swiping their cards.

[Jabir ibn Hayyan]

Wesam, on Feb 12 2009, 07:53 PM, said:

Quite a rude doctor aren't you?

How about posts 2 and 7 to begin with... I hate rudeness and stay away from jerks, but some times I need to hit hard to shut the source of idiocy.....

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The type that hates being questioned because they feel so insecure about the very little knowledge that they may have.

I always welcome intelligent debate, but when people create some thing at their own and try to shove it into people's throat as a universal truth, you gotta respond accordingly. As far a knowledge goes, people can read the entire thread and decide for themselves, I replied to all of your and Brostraighpath quires with scientific evidence, none of you ever dare to refute it scientifically just your own crated jargon. Insecurity is evident from your reply after several months when you feel pissed off at the cartoons, you replied again but void of any intelligent discussion.... Any ways I am sorry if it made you feel bad, it was intent for the idiots who don't know any thing scientific and BS as they are specialist of the field.

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Regurgitated slabs and slabs of information never educated a single soul. It just creates blind followers such as yourself. Much like the topic of religon. You can ear bash someone for as long as you want about Islam but in the end the proof is in the pudding or so to speak. My proof was in my pudding and I chose then what other pudding to eat.

I am sure you didn't understood any thing as you have no darn clue of Immunology, Vaccines and Biochemistry.... I am not a blind follower of any thing, rather an experimental scientist, who believes in original research and findings not Prof. Internet propaganda. Now relax and enjoy your pudding and stop being a crying child who feels heart burning as he is unable to make his point properly

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You seem intent on bashing your ideas into peoples heads probably because you never enjoyed a thorough education but rather were strung up all those nights cramming crap into your head without any intellectual thought or questioning.

Alhamdo Lillah I am happy with my educational background, you need to look at your own resume and feel embraced (It is never too late for education, take my recommendation and join college for good)! I wish you had spent some time reading my post properly as I backed up every single claim  made with published data and you are saying that I am  deprived of intellectual thoughts. Let me ask you, out of all of your posts show me any scientific reference you brought forward? All you write that comes into your brain, regardless how stupid it is, you just type and think you made it...

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Generally when one weans a baby on to food, we find healthy foods first and foremost. We then steam, or pressure cook the vegetables enough so that they are softer and moist. We may then mash or blend the vegetables until they are moist and almost liquid like. Gently we introduce foods at the same time as breastfeeding and systematically wean them off breast milk.

I think all of us are aware of this from everyday observations! By telling this, you want us to believe you are super genius

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But no, your idea is grabbing a cucumber and ramming it down the childs throat. In your case though, I wish it was a cucumber, something generally regarded as healthy.

I am sorry for your bad experience...

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You're just ramming broken test tubes of toxins into people and expecting them to smile, lap it up, shut up and not question your ability to cram information and then market it like a world class infomercial ad.

Lolllllll,     You seriously need to visit a vaccine production facility Vide Supra, I always reply any question with scientific reasons, it is you who never bring any proof of your claims....

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Congratulations on being a doctor and being so scientific if scientific means parroting information that has been published in journals courtesy of the multibillion dollar support of pharmaceutical and drug companies.

Again you prove that you never bother to read my replies and try to learn..... I challenged you to come up with refusal of these finding and publish even better papers and earn few noble prizes.... All of the scientist around the world are stupid only you and few others like you are super smart and out of this world......

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I chose the science of questioning and not blindly accepting what people with ulterior motives have to offer. The Evangelist offers you bread in exchange for a pseudo religon.

It is evident how much science you know  

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You offer vaccines in exchange for pseudo health based on bogus science backed with plenty of dollars.

I offer knowledge, wisdom and detailed home work before making your self fool in front of whole world..... How about you highlight what is bogus science? What authority you have to call some thing bogus? I once again challenge you for scientific debate with scientific proofs, I and no other scientist will accept your metal whispers and your fantasies.....

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Keep earning your govt cheques for you high vax rates, I know I and a growing trend of sensible Muslims will not be contributing.

I don't get welfare checks, I work hard to earn money from one of the best university in the world, Alhamdo Lillah..... I hope you and likes of you don't contribute any way!

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Diseases always come and go in cycles and patterns.

Oh, i didn't know that....

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Drug companies are just very clever at monitoring these patterns and as soon as declines are evident they release their magic potions and claim fame. Kinda like a fullback running the whole field past every single player and then passing the ball off 5 meters before the goal line to the winger and then the winger taking the glory for the try.

Man seriously, you are so smart in figuring things out that none of us could guess   Why don't you write a detail letter to President Obama and leaders of the European union to let them know all of them are stupid!

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Try pushing your BS somewhere else... perhaps to your loyal patients who keep coming back and swiping their cards.

I need not to teach you any thing as you have once again reveled your mental capacity..... Again, rather then trying to make me look fool, if you have had read my replies, you would have known by now that I am not an MD doctor, but a PhD...... I don't see patients, I work in a lab....

Edited by Dr_Asad_77, 12 February 2009 - 08:51 PM.

[Jabir ibn Hayyan]

For people still not getting it.....  

Attached Images

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[Wesam]

Dr_Asad_77, on Feb 12 2009, 08:39 PM, said:

How about posts 2 and 7 to begin with... I hate rudeness and stay away from jerks, but some times I need to hit hard to shut the source of idiocy.....

You'd like to think you hit hard, but all you did was make yourself look more arrogant and foolish. I can't for one minute believe your anything but a pretender. For someone that claims to be a researcher/scientist and PHD, you sure lack basic writing skills.

You're no where near as witty as you think you are either.

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I always welcome intelligent debate, but when people create some thing at their own and try to shove it into people's throat as a universal truth, you gotta respond accordingly. As far a knowledge goes, people can read the entire thread and decide for themselves, I replied to all of your and Brostraighpath quires with scientific evidence, none of you ever dare to refute it scientifically just your own crated jargon. Insecurity is evident from your reply after several months when you feel pissed off at the cartoons, you replied again but void of any intelligent discussion.... Any ways I am sorry if it made you feel bad, it was intent for the idiots who don't know any thing scientific and BS as they are specialist of the field.

You're supposed responses in this and many other threads have been nothing more than your lame attempts at proving how good a google researcher you are. I do believe you 100% that you are nothing more than a google scientist, a google researcher. All you do is reply to people with cut and paste slabs and slabs and cut and paste pictures to try and pass yourself off as some super-wit hoping people won't see through your mask.

I'd much rather spend my time with someone without any qualifications that has reasonable understanding skills and reasoning skills and takes the time to think and reply rather than google, cut and paste. Congratulations, no one is taking the award from you on that one, that's for sure. But do tell me, how did you respond to quires? I'm yet to master the ability to speak to bundles of paper. I suppose quires like talking to wannabe doctors.
It's hilarious how you try and take everything I wrote to you and deflect it back. You're insecure and I'll prove it to you too. I didn't reply because I largely forgot about the thread and your nuances with endless google drops and unlike you, some of us have real jobs to attend to and real families but in your well observed insecurities you couldn't handle being left alone to post away at your leisure and seem like a super power. So you went out of your way to post cartoons in mockery of those who have made very serious choices regarding their families health. People who have been in situations which you're not even close to experiencing yet but claim fame to know exactly what to do, despite admitting to not being married, not having children and most importantly NOT being an MD doctor but a boy who likes to play with test tubes.
You delude yourself and others into thinking you're important but when people don't acknowledge your importance by replying you post insults to try and bring the attention back to yourself.

Don't buy it?

Well for starters, the posted insults above. Apparently I'm a moron according to Mr Scientific because I didn't keep injecting my child with poisons after he had severe reactions not once, not twice but three times the third of which had him ill for a month!

Then what did your fragile ego do? After no reply to your insults, you posted another insult to gather some more attention.

Fish didn't bite and so you carried on with your drivel and praise seeking taking an encore bow before your supporters.

I hear ya, I hear ya. "But that's only two posts above" he says.

Well how about this one HERE

Awww poor fake Dr, no one is having dialogue with you. Not arrogant at all. Nice humble friendly helpful doctor. Not insecure at all.

I hear ya, I hear ya, "But that's only three posts" he says.

How about this one HERE

Awww poor Dr Asad, we forgot about you.

Seriously, who's insecure again?

I didn't call myself a specialist in the field. Most definitely though I have gone through an experience which gives me more scientific leeway than you who is happy to pretend he's an MD doctor who knows it all. You're the one with the title "DR" and happy to push off your information as if it is scientifically valid just because you have the PHD initials which anyone with half an ounce of intelligence knows means jack all in the grand scheme of things.

But aren't you too busy doing all your lab research? Strange you find the time for such frivolous debates when you're out there proving your science to the world.

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I am sure you didn't understood any thing as you have no darn clue of Immunology, Vaccines and Biochemistry.... I am not a blind follower of any thing, rather an experimental scientist, who believes in original research and findings not Prof. Internet propaganda. Now relax and enjoy your pudding and stop being a crying child who feels heart burning as he is unable to make his point properly

I know enough to read between the lines and stay away from pseudo's like you. I've seen your type come and go so quickly it's not funny. Just because others don't acknowledge you, you crawl up into a ball and start deflecting. But we've seen above who cry's like a child when they're not spoken to and who resorts to petty call outs with insults. But your last sentence takes the cake. I feel heart burning?   No thanks, my digestion is fine.

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Alhamdo Lillah I am happy with my educational background, you need to look at your own resume and feel embraced (It is never too late for education, take my recommendation and join college for good)!

But I do... I do... I am embraced nightly. No thanks been to Uni and don't ever want to go back.

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I wish you had spent some time reading my post properly as I backed up every single claim  made with published data and you are saying that I am  deprived of intellectual thoughts. Let me ask you, out of all of your posts show me any scientific reference you brought forward? All you write that comes into your brain, regardless how stupid it is, you just type and think you made it...

Yes you are deprived of intellectual thought. Posting slabs and slabs is not engaging your mind. It's finding a short cut and copy/pasting and then proposing that they are your own ideas.

You think by posting slabs and slabs you will win a competition. Geewiz, someone should of told you that this is a forum and what you're doing is called post whoring, not engaging or discussing. You just want to post like mad and hope the other people shut up and leave which might make you look like you know it all. Well, it worked.........in your little mind at least.

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I think all of us are aware of this from everyday observations! By telling this, you want us to believe you are super genius

All that knowledge and education and you fail to comprehend a metaphor, a parable, a similitude, rhetorical trope. What a waste of money. Go google that!

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Lolllllll,     You seriously need to visit a vaccine production facility Vide Supra, I always reply any question with scientific reasons, it is you who never bring any proof of your claims....

Yes, captain google to the rescue!

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Again you prove that you never bother to read my replies and try to learn..... I challenged you to come up with refusal of these finding and publish even better papers and earn few noble prizes.... All of the scientist around the world are stupid only you and few others like you are super smart and out of this world......

You challenged me? Lmao. What do you think this is? A UFC cage? A ninjitsu studio? Or perhaps it's a WWE ring?

I read your replies and switched off. You don't offer an ounce of yourself. You copy, paste, hit enter and wait for the accolades and then when they don't come, you insult. Fantastic science there.

I never claimed all the scientists of the world are stupid nor that I am super smart. But I do claim to have enough intelligence to stop vaccinating my child when I see abnormal physiological responses. I am scientific enough to understand that you don't keep doing the same thing and hope for a different result, not especially when the initial result was disastrous and borderline deadly. That's not enough science for you though.

Rest assured, like you I have read many books, sat seminars, been in lecture halls and spoken to professionals in the field and come to my own conclusion. This is after having a pre-conceived idea of acceptance of vaccines. I can safely say I've sat on both sides of the fence and on the fence and now chosen which side to sit on. You on the other hand are still a baby freshy.... still in school, unmarried and no children. You're not an MD nor an Immunologist. You're work and research is not in the field nor in the medical field yet you post here like your the savior to the forums. You have the audacity to call yourself DR and post away offering medical advice despite not being qualified. Perhaps you need to be reminded of the legal implications. You've only experienced one side of the fence and it was only because you gargled down everything your teachers said without any serious objective thought or analysis.

Alhamdullillah I am not like you and possibly saved my sons life by not being a stubborn git and continuing in ignorance and arrogance as if I knew everything.

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It is evident how much science you know  

As mentioned, I know enough to avoid going down a disasterous track after experiencing first hand what the results were.

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I offer knowledge, wisdom and detailed home work before making your self fool in front of whole world..... How about you highlight what is bogus science? What authority you have to call some thing bogus? I once again challenge you for scientific debate with scientific proofs, I and no other scientist will accept your metal whispers and your fantasies.....

You offer nothing but bad spelling, bad grammar, bad sentence structure, arrogant answers, rudeness and high horsedness.

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I don't get welfare checks, I work hard to earn money from one of the best university in the world, Alhamdo Lillah..... I hope you and likes of you don't contribute any way!

Yeh well, congratulations. Obviously since you're not an MD (Damn.... you fooled me) you don't get govt handouts for ensuring high surgery vaccination rates. Perhaps your bosses should look into your extra-curricular activities here on the forums and what a hot shot Doctor you really are. Perhaps they'll promote you.

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Oh, i didn't know that....


Man seriously, you are so smart in figuring things out that none of us could guess   Why don't you write a detail letter to President Obama and leaders of the European union to let them know all of them are stupid!

How do I reply to such a childish and insanely obscure request?   President Obama? He's a Dr just like you? Leaders of the European Union? Lmao You're kidding me right? If you had any..... just an ounce....... maybe a smidgen of credibility, you just lost it all! Who on earth would propose such a preposterous suggestion? Only someone with a mind that simply does not engage would think that Obama or European Unions have the vested interest of the people at heart. But that's besides the point. What I want to know is what on earth happened up there in that feeble and fragile mind of yours to make you ask me to write a letter to them? Perhaps it's all that make believe you watch..... you know, your love for WWE, Ghost Hunter and UFO files says way more than you'd care to think, but you couldn't help putting it all in your profile could you?

Yes, I can see what a brilliant little thinker you are. Lmao... UFO's, WWE, Ghost Hunter..... gimme a break! Hang on.... I forgot Nijitsu hahahaha.

Anyone that believes in Ninja's has got to be missing screws.

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I need not to teach you any thing as you have once again reveled your mental capacity..... Again, rather then trying to make me look fool, if you have had read my replies, you would have known by now that I am not an MD doctor, but a PhD...... I don't see patients, I work in a lab....

You summed it up so well. PLease refrain then from offering your zero experience to anyone.

You're not married, have no children are not an MD yet you continue to market yourself as the be all and end all when it comes to health sciences. Spare me.

So with your final words above, anyone with half an iota of intellect will see right through you. You can have this thread, post away your insults and keep receiving the accolades but I won't be replying to your drivel.

If anything, I understand that the moderators already have a disclaimer in here but I'd be extra careful of this impostor posting away at leisure. He's not an MD but pretends to answer MD questions in here and other threads.

[Jubei]

Wesam, on Feb 13 2009, 08:44 AM, said:

I'd much rather spend my time with someone without any qualifications that has reasonable understanding skills

I just had to butt in.  No amount of intuition, common sense or worldly knowledge will ever compensate for lack of scientific understanding when it comes to immunology.  

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Anyone that believes in Ninja's has got to be missing screws.

This is a direct insult at me.  Jubei is a NINJA....  Everyone knows that.


I hope you know how insulting it is for professionals to hear every Tom, Richard and Harry telling them their opinion on drugs they have no clue about.  

Sometimes I throw RSC journals at them... but it doesn't work   I wonder what Dr Asad does.  


On a side note, I just listened to a long talk about Tamiflu.  Lovely drug.

[Jabir ibn Hayyan]

[ name='Wesam' date='Feb 13 2009, 03:44 AM' post='1833112'] (All that is in red and bold is from Wesam, Error message was shown for having many quotes).
You'd like to think you hit hard, but all you did was make yourself look more arrogant and foolish. I can't for one minute believe your anything but a pretender. For someone that claims to be a researcher/scientist and PHD, you sure lack basic writing skills. You're no where near as witty as you think you are either.
Lol, who is talking! Neither it's a writing competition nor I am writing a research paper that I will go over many times to make sure it is all well! As long it conveys what I have intended, I am OK with it.....It doesn't matter to my what you do or don not believe. Prof. Dr. Perfect Writer, I am fully aware of your potential. I have reiterated many times that I am a student of science and servant of Ahl-e-BAit and nothing more.....

You're supposed responses in this and many other threads have been nothing more than your lame attempts at proving how good a google researcher you are. I do believe you 100% that you are nothing more than a google scientist, a google researcher. All you do is reply to people with cut and paste slabs and slabs and cut and paste pictures to try and pass yourself off as some super-wit hoping people won't see through your mask.
If all you have written were correct, still no one could prove me wrong, isn't it? Why don't you use goggle like me and bring some credible proofs of your absurd claims???? I would repeat one more time, what you call slab and slab of cut and past, go over it and point out if any thing is incorrect? Whenever you or Brostraightpath brought any point, I answered it with proper references, e.g., Post 4. Let me ask,what is your source of info? Let me say nothing more then mere Brain Itching

I'd much rather spend my time with someone without any qualifications that has reasonable understanding skills and reasoning skills and takes the time to think and reply rather than google, cut and paste.
I can see that from your replies!

Congratulations, no one is taking the award from you on that one, that's for sure. But do tell me, how did you respond to quires? I'm yet to master the ability to speak to bundles of paper. I suppose quires like talking to wannabe doctors. It's hilarious how you try and take everything I wrote to you and deflect it back.
Oh what a big favor, I owe you one Again, if you have taken some time looking at most of my earlier posts, you would know, how I respond! For the rest, it takes lot of patience, hard work, reading, asking questions, doing experiments, writing papers, giving talks and attending lectures form renowned scientists, just to name a few! Newton's Third Law: For every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction.......

You're insecure and I'll prove it to you too. I didn't reply because I largely forgot about the thread and your nuances with endless google drops and unlike you, some of us have real jobs to attend to and real families but in your well observed insecurities you couldn't handle being left alone to post away at your leisure and seem like a super power.
I am black belt, I am trained to secure myself You need to buy some books and learn how to debate!  Yeah, right! You first jumped into this discussion at 7th Dec and then just made lousy comment on 12th Dec and then came back yesterday, looked at the cartoons, got pissed off and tried to prove me wrong again, but without proofs as usual!
You need to make observations with open eye before you come up with a conclusions! I have joined this forum in Nov 2007 and t date, I have less then 1800 posts, many people with real jobs have joined after me and way ahead of me in number of posts! If some one has lots of posts doesn't mean he/she doesn't has a real job or families. Some people work in the IT area and are logged on all day, I some times work with the Analytical instruments controlled by computer and so I access internet as well. What's the big, eh? FYI, I have tons of real life friend both in Academia and out side and many times I have to make excuses not to be with them as if I have to finish some important work....  

So you went out of your way to post cartoons in mockery of those who have made very serious choices regarding their families health. People who have been in situations which you're not even close to experiencing yet but claim fame to know exactly what to do, despite admitting to not being married, not having children and most importantly NOT being an MD doctor but a boy who likes to play with test tubes. You delude yourself and others into thinking you're important but when people don't acknowledge your importance by replying you post insults to try and bring the attention back to yourself.
Again, If you had payed attention to my advice to do thorough home work before accusations, you may save your self from some embarrassment! Your CO-THINKER, Brostraightpath started it here and then I replied here and here, the later one you saw here and went nuts!
Alhamdo Lillah, I am very confident and don't need E-Support to boost my morale! Brother its you who feel so upset as you couldn't back up your outlandish beliefs about vaccines and are venting here.... :

Don't buy it? Well for starters, the posted insults above. Apparently I'm a moron according to Mr Scientific because I didn't keep injecting my child with poisons after he had severe reactions not once, not twice but three times the third of which had him ill for a month! Then what did your fragile ego do? After no reply to your insults, you posted another insult to gather some more attention.
It's worthless! You are not a moron for not injecting vaccine to your child but for making baseless propaganda against one of the best weapon against diseases. I am sorry that your child suffered (may Allah (SWT) gives him complete shifa), but it doesn't mean that vaccine is poison or people around the world are all stupid for not believing you! Again I would say read my previous posts, I have always mentioned, no drug is 100% safe, Forget about the drugs, any thing will kill you if you don't take precautions. Drinking excess water can kill you!, how about that? Just before your post yesterday, I had this posted! What do you think was the purpose of that post?
It has been less then 3 months since you are at SC and making claims about me Seek help from any other experienced SCer and ask if I am jolly or not, or whether I have ever made any one unhappy before! It is unfortunately since Brostarightpath's first reply in this thread, I had to push the buttons to "shut the sources of idiocy". Even though I didn't believe I owed apology to any one, I did so anyways with my posts that I thought would make some one feel uncomfortable.

Fish didn't bite and so you carried on with your drivel and praise seeking taking an encore bow before your supporters.
æÊõÚöÒõ ãä þÊÔÇÁ æÊõÐöáõ ãä ÊÔÇÁõ ÈöíóÏößó ÇáÎóíõÑóÅäßó Úáì ßõáøö ÔíÁò ÞÏíÑ           

I hear ya, I hear ya. "But that's only two posts above" he says.
Well how about this one HERE
Awww poor fake Dr, no one is having dialogue with you. Not arrogant at all. Nice humble friendly helpful doctor. Not insecure at all.
I hear ya, I hear ya, "But that's only three posts" he says.
How about this one HERE
Awww poor Dr Asad, we forgot about you.
Lol, if you had spent more time you might have fund some more! Need some help?  

Seriously, who's insecure again? I didn't call myself a specialist in the field. Most definitely though I have gone through an experience which gives me more scientific leeway than you who is happy to pretend he's an MD doctor who knows it all.
You, as you have no way of proving your claims and you are beating about the bush! We say in Urdu"khisyani billi khamba nochai"......We have MD doctors (I know one for sure) her at SC, make a separate thread and ask any MD doctor around the globe to prove me wrong with scientific finding not their metal bubbles! BTW you are wrong that MD doctor would know more then a PhD in vaccines.... Don't believe me, use Dr. Google and type MD to see what MD's go through to become a medical doctors and then type PhD to see what it takes to do PhD.....
If you prove me wrong, I will openly admit of my shortcomings, will correct myself and shall ever be obliged to thee .

You're the one with the title "DR" and happy to push off your information as if it is scientifically valid just because you have the PHD initials which anyone with half an ounce of intelligence knows means jack all in the grand scheme of things. But aren't you too busy doing all your lab research? Strange you find the time for such frivolous debates when you're out there proving your science to the world.
LMAOOOOOOOO   Let me help you, PhD again PhD. I am a normal human first then a scientist, I always find time for myself, whether it is for cooking, reading, watching TV, hang out with friends or posting at forums.....

I know enough to read between the lines and stay away from pseudo's like you. I've seen your type come and go so quickly it's not funny. Just because others don't acknowledge you, you crawl up into a ball and start deflecting. But we've seen above who cry's like a child when they're not spoken to and who resorts to petty call outs with insults. But your last sentence takes the cake. I feel heart burning? No thanks, my digestion is fine.
Really, believe me, every one knows what you know, just for the sake of it, read the response above this post . Yeah, you have seen every thing This will surely help you, Lol.

No thanks been to Uni and don't ever want to go back. Yes you are deprived of intellectual thought.
I and all the readers know that from your very first response in this thread. OK, thanks for letting this top secret out .

Posting slabs and slabs is not engaging your mind. It's finding a short cut and copy/pasting and then proposing that they are your own ideas.
If I take some material from any website, it is properly cited there in... I once again challenge you to find any post that I have made without due recognition of the source? If some ask me a question that is not my area of research and If I happen to find the most trust able answer (you need to know how to do that) there is nothing wrong in cutting and pasting as long as source is cited. I believe most of the news and research article posted this way here.....In nay case, I copy and paste proper information, directly related to the topic, give proper references, on the other hand, you make nonsense claims without any proofs

You think by posting slabs and slabs you will win a competition. Geewiz, someone should of told you that this is a forum and what you're doing is called post whoring, not engaging or discussing.
There is no competition here, it is all about sharing, learning and teaching! You need to be told to do proper home work before going after some one that you have no idea of and to bring proofs of any claims made....

You just want to post like mad and hope the other people shut up and leave which might make you look like you know it all. Well, it worked.........in your little mind at least.
It is clear to all the reader who knows how much! I at least know what I know and what not and striving towards perfection, unlike you who don't ever wish to go to university!

All that knowledge and education and you fail to comprehend a metaphor, a parable, a similitude, rhetorical trope. What a waste of money. Go google that!
You are super genius, I upgraded you yesterday and you didn't believe me

Yes, captain google to the rescue!
Just for people like you.....


You challenged me? Lmao. What do you think this is? A UFC cage? A ninjitsu studio? Or perhaps it's a WWE ring? I read your replies and switched off. You don't offer an ounce of yourself. You copy, paste, hit enter and wait for the accolades and then when they don't come, you insult. Fantastic science there.
I am so sorry I make you switch off! You should start using glasses to see what I quote and what's coming from me. And any ways, I am better off quoting from correct sources with reference then wrongly presenting important info. Any ways my challenge still holds, ring proof to prove me wrong or admit your lack of knowledge..

I never claimed all the scientists of the world are stupid nor that I am super smart. But I do claim to have enough intelligence to stop vaccinating my child when I see abnormal physiological responses. I am scientific enough to understand that you don't keep doing the same thing and hope for a different result, not especially when the initial result was disastrous and borderline deadly. That's not enough science for you though.
Aren't you the one claiming vaccine to be based on bogus science? I don't know which country you live in, but in most countries there are proper protocols followed before and after vaccination to avoid side effects. If unwanted is observed, it is thouroughly investigated to avoid any further loss. If you had rea my response just after Brostraightpath first post, you would have learned a whole lot!

Rest assured, like you I have read many books, sat seminars, been in lecture halls and spoken to professionals in the field and come to my own conclusion. This is after having a pre-conceived idea of acceptance of vaccines. I can safely say I've sat on both sides of the fence and on the fence and now chosen which side to sit on. You on the other hand are still a baby freshy.... still in school, unmarried and no children. You're not an MD nor an Immunologist. You're work and research is not in the field nor in the medical field yet you post here like your the savior to the forums. You have the audacity to call yourself DR and post away offering medical advice despite not being qualified. Perhaps you need to be reminded of the legal implications. You've only experienced one side of the fence and it was only because you gargled down everything your teachers said without any serious objective thought or analysis. Alhamdullillah I am not like you and possibly saved my sons life by not being a stubborn git and continuing in ignorance and arrogance as if I knew everything.
Reading books at home doesn't make a scientist! No drugs are all safe (I am repeating again, I hope you get this time) and vaccines are not exceptions. If a side reaction happen once in a million, it doesn't mean vaccine is bad rather possibly that child is different (that's a general term and contains much deeper meaning, don't hurt your brain for it) then others and it needed to be looked! I am not baby "freshy" (31 years) and doing my 2nd PhD and already had two M.S before that. Yeah I am not an MD but MD are not expert of immunology either, as I said many time before, if you had done proper home work one me, you would know that my 2nd PhD is in Pharmaceutical Sciences and I directly deals with immunology and have taken advanced courses. Whenever I dispensed a "medical advice" it is with advice to check with your physician as he is the most suitable person (Again read my posts carefully before accusing). It is rather you who need to be told not to make false propaganda and spread lies against well established sciences. FYI no one becomes a professors in US university without PhD in the subject and they don't fed us their own created scientific stories, they read most most recent papers and that's how books are written as well.... As I said before, death and Shifa is from Allah and I will make informed choices. If I know, I would die for sure going on path A and also know that I have good survival chances on path B, but there could be some unexpected, I would go for path B (Learned some thing?)

As mentioned, I know enough to avoid going down a disasterous track after experiencing first hand what the results were. You offer nothing but bad spelling, bad grammar, bad sentence structure, arrogant answers, rudeness and high horsedness. Yeh well, congratulations. Obviously since you're not an MD (Damn.... you fooled me) you don't get govt handouts for ensuring high surgery vaccination rates. Perhaps your bosses should look into your extra-curricular activities here on the forums and what a hot shot Doctor you really are. Perhaps they'll promote you.
Thanks, and read my first response and also look at your own spelling mistake, again need some help here? As I said before if you have had one some home work on me, you wouldn't have to write all that...... Alhamdo Lillah, my boss know what I am capable of and that's why I am in a great university, unlike you who hates it.....

How do I reply to such a childish and insanely obscure request?   President Obama? He's a Dr just like you? Leaders of the European Union? Lmao You're kidding me right? If you had any..... just an ounce....... maybe a smidgen of credibility, you just lost it all! Who on earth would propose such a preposterous suggestion? Only someone with a mind that simply does not engage would think that Obama or European Unions have the vested interest of the people at heart. But that's besides the point. What I want to know is what on earth happened up there in that feeble and fragile mind of yours to make you ask me to write a letter to them? Perhaps it's all that make believe you watch..... you know, your love for WWE, Ghost Hunter and UFO files says way more than you'd care to think, but you couldn't help putting it all in your profile could you? Yes, I can see what a brilliant little thinker you are. Lmao... UFO's, WWE, Ghost Hunter..... gimme a break! Hang on.... I forgot Nijitsu hahahaha. Anyone that believes in Ninja's has got to be missing screws.
Oh boy, you once again proved your intellect! President Obama and others lead the country and can issue executive orders to investigate of any serious malpractices. As you claim to call vaccines a bogus and flawed science I wonder what other way would be to stop this bad sciences? If I watch TV and movies and If I have written them in my profile, it shown I am open book, not like you who shows up once in a while, make nonsense claims and  try to make other people look fool or at your own level!

You summed it up so well. PLease refrain then from offering your zero experience to anyone. You're not married, have no children are not an MD yet you continue to market yourself as the be all and end all when it comes to health sciences. Spare me. So with your final words above, anyone with half an iota of intellect will see right through you. You can have this thread, post away your insults and keep receiving the accolades but I won't be replying to your drivel.
This article is not a medical advice, rather a discussion of what vaccines are as I mentioned in the opening of my first post in this thread. I feel sorry for your embarrassment, you should investigate before accusing some one! It is open for all to discuss but with common sense and responsibility. it is OK to not know, but it is not OK to make idiotic claims and stick to it with out nay proof! Again, FYI I work with medicines and do research on them, who would know medicine then the one who work with it everyday?

If anything, I understand that the moderators already have a disclaimer in here but I'd be extra careful of this impostor posting away at leisure. He's not an MD but pretends to answer MD questions in here and other threads.
People know me here long before you joined!

[name='Jubei' date='Feb 13 2009, 01:27 PM' post='1833418']
I just had to butt in.  No amount of intuition, common sense or worldly knowledge will ever compensate for lack of scientific understanding when it comes to immunology.  I hope you know how insulting it is for professionals to hear every Tom, Richard and Harry telling them their opinion on drugs they have no clue about.  
Thank you bro, I wish this guy and other like him take some time to think and read and get rid of ignorance!

Sometimes I throw RSC journals at them... but it doesn't work   I wonder what Dr Asad does. On a side note, I just listened to a long talk about Tamiflu.  Lovely drug.
Man, I first see what is the mental and then intellectual level of the person speaking, then accordingly I bring proofs. The RSC, ACS, Wileyinterscience, Sciencedirect, etc nothing will work for stubborn. I recall some one saying that it is easy to wake up some one really sleeping, but if some is pretending, you can't wake him up.....Tamiflu another medical marvel, if you wish I can send you some papers on that, just gimme buzz.

Edited by Dr_Asad_77, 13 February 2009 - 08:42 PM.

[khakay batool]

waqt kabhi eik sa nahi rehata!!

Edited by khakay batool, 14 February 2009 - 03:26 PM.

[Jabir ibn Hayyan]

A special court's Thursday ruling that no proven link exists between autism and certain early childhood vaccines

Amanda Guyton, a mother of a 6-year-old boy with autism, was "incredibly happy" with the decision and said it reaffirmed her belief that her son's autism has nothing to do with vaccines.

"We're ready for them to get on real research like educational strategies and help for kids," she said. "An awful lot of money and effort and time were spent on vaccines when three or four studies said no, there isn't a link."

Meanwhile, John Best, the father of a 12-year-old boy with autism, said: "The whole thing stinks."

Guyton and Best were not involved in the cases, but were following the news because of their interest in autism.

Three families -- the Cedillos, the Hazlehursts and the Snyders -- had sought damage awards from the Vaccine Injury Compensation Program for their children who have autism, a disorder that the parents contend was triggered by the vaccine against measles, mumps and rubella combined with vaccines containing thimerosal, a mercury-based preservative. Video Watch Campbell Brown's take on the controversy »

The panel of "special masters" ruled that these petitioners had not presented sufficient evidence to prove that the childhood vaccines caused autism in their children.

A vocal segment of autism parents has contended that childhood vaccinations recommended by the government cause the disorder. Health agencies and the scientific community have disputed that notion. In defending its conclusion that no link exists, the Institute of Medicine cited five large studies that have failed to prove any connection between autism and thimerosal and 14 large studies finding no link between the MMR vaccine and autism.

"As the scientific community has been saying for a long time, there is no good, credible, reproducible research that supports the hypothesis that MMR (measles, mumps and rubella) vaccine causes autism," said Dr. Max Wiznitzer, an autism expert at Rainbow Babies and Children's Hospital in Cleveland, Ohio.

Wiznitzer testified in two of these three lawsuits brought against the government's National Vaccine Injury Compensation Program.

"What the decision tells us is that these vaccinations are safe," he said. "The medical evidence tells us there is no association between vaccines and autism. This is one more piece that helps confirm that conclusion."

The defendant, the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services, released a statement Thursday: "Hopefully, the determination by the Special Masters will help reassure parents that vaccines do not cause autism."

Meanwhile, some autism advocacy groups such as SafeMinds also criticized the HHS saying the "deck is stacked against families when they enter 'vaccine court.'"

National Autism Association president Wendy Fournier agreed.

"If you have a vaccine injury, you're forced to sue Health and Human Services instead of suing the manufacturers. It's the government that oversees these court cases," said Fournier, who is the mother of a 9-year-old girl with autism. "The conflict of interest is so huge in so many levels by having the government responsible for not only promoting vaccine program, but also responsible for overseeing the safety."

Fournier said her daughter was a happy, healthy toddler who developed autism after receiving shots. She said she's heard countless similar stories from other parents.

The special court denied Mike and Theresa Cedillo's claim that vaccines caused autism in their daughter, Michelle, 14, who can't walk without help and receives nourishment from a feeding tube.

"We're obviously really disappointed," Theresa Cedillo said.

Tom Powers is an attorney for a litigation steering committee representing thousands of families that fall into three categories: those that claim that MMR vaccines and thimerosal-containing vaccines can combine to cause autism; those who claim thimerosal-containing vaccines alone can cause autism; and those who claim that MMR vaccines, without any link to thimerosal, can cause autism.

"We're disappointed in the outcome of the court's decision," he said. "However, these decisions are the first step in a long process. The whole process was designed to raise every possible issue in these cases -- hear all the evidence in these cases, knowing that ultimately appeals courts will be making the final decisions."

This week's ruling brought a different outcome from the Hannah Poling case. In November 2007, the Division of Vaccine Injury Compensation concluded that the Georgia girl's illness that had predisposed her to symptoms of autism was "significantly aggravated" by the vaccinations she received as a toddler and that her family should therefore be compensated.

But Thursday, Special Master George L. Hastings Jr. wrote in his ruling in the Cedillos case, "The evidence advanced by the petitioners has fallen far short of demonstrating such a link" between autism and vaccinations.

Wiznitzer said the ruling sent a message.

"Instead of spending resources investigating ideas that are hypothetical and have no proven value, we need to invest our time and resources into projects that will better determine the reasons for autism and the interventions that are best needed," he said.

[dingdong]

^Bro theres no point in retaliating tit for tat with immature people. Its better to maintain your dignity and pull out when no purpose is served by retaliation.

"Dont talk about knowledge with a fool for he will reject you." I am not sure if Imam Ali said this or not so I wont say he did for sure.

[Jabir ibn Hayyan]

Salams,
            You are right doingdong, I should stop it now! I am feeling really bad that things reached to the stage of personal bashing   I never liked these things, but was dragged into it and didn't realize till very late   My sincere apology to whomever I have dishearten, but my intentions were very sincere and aimed at clarifying the misconceptions exist and to discuss what is truth based on the latest scientific data available.....
Any ways, the discussion and evidences are here and Insha Allah, will serve well to those who seek knowledge and give preference to actual data over their perceptions!
Good health to all.....

[Jabir ibn Hayyan]

MMR doctor Andrew Wakefield fixed data on autism

THE doctor who sparked the scare over the safety of the MMR vaccine for children changed and misreported results in his research, creating the appearance of a possible link with autism, a Sunday Times investigation has found.

Confidential medical documents and interviews with witnesses have established that Andrew Wakefield manipulated patients’ data, which triggered fears that the MMR triple vaccine to protect against measles, mumps and rubella was linked to the condition.

The research was published in February 1998 in an article in The Lancet medical journal. It claimed that the families of eight out of 12 children attending a routine clinic at the hospital had blamed MMR for their autism, and said that problems came on within days of the jab. The team also claimed to have discovered a new inflammatory bowel disease underlying the children’s conditions.

However, our investigation, confirmed by evidence presented to the General Medical Council (GMC), reveals that: In most of the 12 cases, the children’s ailments as described in The Lancet were different from their hospital and GP records. Although the research paper claimed that problems came on within days of the jab, in only one case did medical records suggest this was true, and in many of the cases medical concerns had been raised before the children were vaccinated. Hospital pathologists, looking for inflammatory bowel disease, reported in the majority of cases that the gut was normal. This was then reviewed and the Lancet paper showed them as abnormal.

Despite involving just a dozen children, the 1998 paper’s impact was extraordinary. After its publication, rates of inoculation fell from 92% to below 80%. Populations acquire “herd immunity” from measles when more than 95% of people have been vaccinated.

Last week official figures showed that 1,348 confirmed cases of measles in England and Wales were reported last year, compared with 56 in 1998. Two children have died of the disease.

With two professors, John Walker-Smith and Simon Murch, Wakefield is defending himself against allegations of serious professional misconduct brought by the GMC. The charges relate to ethical aspects of the project, not its findings. All three men deny any misconduct.

Through his lawyers, Wakefield this weekend denied the issues raised by our investigation, but declined to comment further.

[Jabir ibn Hayyan]

Masha Allah, another Vaccine related thread to consider.....

[Jabir ibn Hayyan]

Some scientific journals where reliable information regrading vaccines could be obtained (not a comprehensive list!)

Clinical and Vaccine Immunology
Vaccine
The Open Vaccine Journal
The New England journal of Medicine
Immunology & Cell Biology
Nature Medicine
Nature immunology
Nature Biotechnology
Nature Reviews Immunology
Nature Reviews Microbiology

Few good books on the subject....

Vaccines: Expert Consult
The Vaccine Book
Bioinformatics for Vaccinology
Vaccines: Frontiers in Design and Development

[Jabir ibn Hayyan]

   ,
                               I am posting pics from Kelley's Textbook of Internal Medicine (this was the first ever book on the subject I read beside many others ) of chapter on Immunizations. I hope it would further clarify the need of vaccination against emerging pandemics....

Attached Thumbnails

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[siti]

Salam, thanks Dr for the reference, inshaallah it would be beneficial for everyone including me. i need to study more on this issue, thanks again for the reference, and let's forgive and forget.

[Muntaqim Force]

Vx are safe and recommended.

We humans have destroyed the protection barrier long time ago so we need this method of defense against micro organisms. This is invention of knowledge which is never considered wrong. Anyone who is speaking against is wrong.

Regards

• 
  Meissner HC, Strebel PM, Orenstein WA. Measles vaccines and the potential for worldwide eradication of measles. Pediatrics. 2004;114(4):1065-9.
  
• 
  Smeeth L, Cook C, Fombonne E, et al. MMR vaccination and pervasive developmental disorders: a case-control study. Lancet. 2004;11-17;364(9438):963-9.

Unsubstantiated claims that suggest an association between the measles vaccine and autism have resulted in reduced vaccine use and contributed to a recent resurgence of measles in countries where immunization rates have fallen to below the level needed to maintain herd immunity

How to Respond to Parents' Vaccine Concerns

One of the most important things you can do to confront the reemergence of measles is to ensure that the children you see are vaccinated. Parents or other guardians are looking for information to make the best decisions to protect their child's health. Studies show that most parents believe that vaccines are beneficial but are still concerned about vaccine safety Therefore, the decision involves a risk-benefit assessment -- what is the risk that my child will get a disease and have a poor outcome, compared with the risk of my child having an adverse event after receiving the vaccine? For MMR, this can be a tough calculation. Most parents have never experienced measles, so they are likely to consider their child to be at low risk. They may not appreciate how easy it is for measles outbreaks to occur when immunization rates fall by even a small degree. In addition, the potential severity of the disease is underappreciated.

Despite the evidence supporting the safety of the MMR vaccine and refuting the link between MMR and autism, parents can still easily access misinformation from various sources that can foster lingering doubt. Many of these information sources are compelling, and it can be difficult to counter them with scientific data.^[39,40] Still, studies show that most parents do trust their child's healthcare provider over other sources when it comes to vaccine information.^[41]

Several articles concerning communication with vaccine-hesitant parents have been published recently.The most important goal is to maintain an open dialogue that acknowledges and respects parents' concerns while providing accurate information about both the disease and the vaccine. Here is an approach that builds on this body of work and incorporates this goal:

• Be proactive -- begin a dialogue about vaccines early to provide multiple opportunities for parents or guardians to express concerns and for you to answer questions and provide information.
  
• Know the disease -- because many pediatric clinicians have not encountered measles, it can be difficult to communicate the risks for infection.
  
• Use numbers to help provide perspective with respect to risk -- for example, 1 of 20 children with measles will develop pneumonia, and fewer than 1 of 1 million children who receive MMR will develop encephalopathy.
  
• Talk about risks associated with other daily activities to help provide context.
  
• Use personal stories -- counter the compelling stories parents can find in the media with compelling anecdotes of your own.
  
• Know the vaccine -- acknowledge the known side effects, but also emphasize the evidence that supports the safety and benefit of the MMR vaccine.
  
• Know about additional resources for parents so that they have ways to get more reliable information..
  
• Know about resources for yourself that provide communication tips, vaccine safety information, and disease information
  
• Keep talking.

If a family continues to decline vaccination despite your efforts, this poses an ethical dilemma between respecting the family's beliefs and your professional obligations and beliefs about what is important for the child's health. The AAP Committee on Bioethics does not recommend discharging a family from one's practice if they refuse or delay vaccination.

However, guidelines are available for documentation of vaccine refusal, and clinicians can have parents or other guardians to sign a refusal-to-vaccinate waiver. If the relationship with the family cannot be maintained as a result of significant distrust or difficulty with communication, a clinician can then encourage the family to find another provider

[:Sami]

Salam,
I've contacted the vaccine manufacturers and they cannot confirm if the pig, monkey and fetus  cells used in vaccines  are "HALAL" or not .