17 replies to this topic

[Fadlallah79]

Dear brothers and sisters,
Does anyone know about some sort of incident that occured between Imam Ali and Khalid ibn Walid?  I was told it had something to do with the bending of a spear or a sword?  Maybe an assassination attempt, or a punishment to Khalid ibn Walid while Imam Ali was the khalifa?  Someone clarify please.  Neither on ShiaChat nor on the web was I able to find it.   Thanks.

[SpIzo]

I'm not sure whether this is the right incident or not but according to this incident, it was Umar who broke the arrows:

An evidence of this is the incident of Khalid bin Walid and the harsh words exchanged in that connection by Abu Bakr and Umar. The story in short is that Khalid killed Malik bin Nuwaira cruelly and unjustly to acquire booty, and outraged the modesty of his wife, who was very beautiful. When the news reached Abu Bakr he was asto- nished and also felt grieved and uttered this well-known sentence. "War booty has made the Arabs greedy and Khalid has disobeyed my orders".

When Khalid came to see Abu Bakr he had three arrows in his turban. When Umar saw him he said: "O enemy of God! All these acts of yours are hypocritical. By God if I gain control over you I shall stone you to death. He then pulled the arrows from Khalid's turban and broke them. Khalid could not pick up courage to say anything as he was under the impression that Umar was acting in accor- dance with the instructions of Abu Bakr.

Later Khalid saw Abu Bakr and put up excuses before him. Abu Bakr believed him and accepted his excuses. When Umar came to know about this he incited Abu Bakr against Khalid and suggested that Khalid must be punished for killing Malik. Abu Bakr said: "O Umar! You had better keep quiet. Khalid is not the first person who has committed a mistake in the matter of interpretation (of law)".

http://www.maaref-fo...ice/341-351.htm

Edited by SpIzo, 22 September 2008 - 07:35 AM.

[Fadlallah79]

SpIzo, on Sep 22 2008, 08:34 AM, said:

I'm not sure whether this is the right incident or not but according to this incident, it was Umar who broke the arrows:

An evidence of this is the incident of Khalid bin Walid and the harsh words exchanged in that connection by Abu Bakr and Umar. The story in short is that Khalid killed Malik bin Nuwaira cruelly and unjustly to acquire booty, and outraged the modesty of his wife, who was very beautiful. When the news reached Abu Bakr he was asto- nished and also felt grieved and uttered this well-known sentence. "War booty has made the Arabs greedy and Khalid has disobeyed my orders".

When Khalid came to see Abu Bakr he had three arrows in his turban. When Umar saw him he said: "O enemy of God! All these acts of yours are hypocritical. By God if I gain control over you I shall stone you to death. He then pulled the arrows from Khalid's turban and broke them. Khalid could not pick up courage to say anything as he was under the impression that Umar was acting in accor- dance with the instructions of Abu Bakr.

Later Khalid saw Abu Bakr and put up excuses before him. Abu Bakr believed him and accepted his excuses. When Umar came to know about this he incited Abu Bakr against Khalid and suggested that Khalid must be punished for killing Malik. Abu Bakr said: "O Umar! You had better keep quiet. Khalid is not the first person who has committed a mistake in the matter of interpretation (of law)".

http://www.maaref-fo...ice/341-351.htm

Thanks for the info.  However, I thought there was conflict directly between AmirolMo'mineen and Khalid ibn Walid?  If anyone has this info, please post, I really need it.  Thanks.  

[albaqyr]

Salaam


Abu Bakr sent Khaled to kill Imam Ali while in prayer. Abu Bakr then said if everyone finds out about this I will be destroyed. Abu Bakr then  came past and told Khaled don;t do what I ordred you to do. Imam Ali then turned arounf to khaled and said to him what did he order you to do ? Khaled said he ordered me to kill you?  Imam Ali said And you were gonna actually do that ? Khaled said yes! Imam Ali then attacked Khaled. And then the people stopped him.

Later one, Khaled saw Imam Ali unarmed and attempted to strike Imam Ali with a big pole, however as khaled went to do so, Imam Ali grabbed the pole from Khaled's hand as he went to strike Imam with it, and boned it arounf khaled's neck. Khaled began to choke and went to Abu Bakr, but they couldn't take it of. They went to a blacksmith but he couldn't take it of and he said to them you must go to the person who put it on or he will choke to death. They then went to Imam Ali and Imam took it of.



Reference:Illul Ashra'e for Al-Saduk.

[Ubermensch]

albaqyr, on Sep 23 2008, 09:02 AM, said:

Salaam


Abu Bakr sent Khaled to kill Imam Ali while in prayer. Abu Bakr then said if everyone finds out about this I will be destroyed. Abu Bakr then  came past and told Khaled don;t do what I ordred you to do. Imam Ali then turned arounf to khaled and said to him what did he order you to do ? Khaled said he ordered me to kill you?  Imam Ali said And you were gonna actually do that ? Khaled said yes! Imam Ali then attacked Khaled. And then the people stopped him.

Later one, Khaled saw Imam Ali unarmed and attempted to strike Imam Ali with a big pole, however as khaled went to do so, Imam Ali grabbed the pole from Khaled's hand as he went to strike Imam with it, and boned it arounf khaled's neck. Khaled began to choke and went to Abu Bakr, but they couldn't take it of. They went to a blacksmith but he couldn't take it of and he said to them you must go to the person who put it on or he will choke to death. They then went to Imam Ali and Imam took it of.



Reference:Illul Ashra'e for Al-Saduk.

Is there a metaphor behind this story? God is very merciful and can do anything. But I didn't know Ali® had supernatural powers.

[Fadlallah79]

albaqyr, on Sep 23 2008, 09:02 AM, said:

Salaam


Abu Bakr sent Khaled to kill Imam Ali while in prayer. Abu Bakr then said if everyone finds out about this I will be destroyed. Abu Bakr then  came past and told Khaled don;t do what I ordred you to do. Imam Ali then turned arounf to khaled and said to him what did he order you to do ? Khaled said he ordered me to kill you?  Imam Ali said And you were gonna actually do that ? Khaled said yes! Imam Ali then attacked Khaled. And then the people stopped him.

Later one, Khaled saw Imam Ali unarmed and attempted to strike Imam Ali with a big pole, however as khaled went to do so, Imam Ali grabbed the pole from Khaled's hand as he went to strike Imam with it, and boned it arounf khaled's neck. Khaled began to choke and went to Abu Bakr, but they couldn't take it of. They went to a blacksmith but he couldn't take it of and he said to them you must go to the person who put it on or he will choke to death. They then went to Imam Ali and Imam took it of.



Reference:Illul Ashra'e for Al-Saduk.

Thank you my respected brother for the information.  There is a sister who is from Ahlul Sunnah who is very open-minded about these things.  I sent her the info about the murder of Malik ibn Nuwayrah.  I'm trying to only send her information from Sunni sources.  I believe the source you provided is by Sheikh Al Saduk , do you know of any Sunni sources where this can be found or a link to "Illul Ashra'e" because I was not able to find it online?  Sorry for the inconvinience.  May Allah (swt) bless you.  

Ubermensch, on Sep 23 2008, 09:13 AM, said:

Is there a metaphor behind this story? God is very merciful and can do anything. But I didn't know Ali® had supernatural powers.

Who said anything about Supernatural powers? Imam Ali had extreme faith and certainty in Allah (swt) and that is where is got his strength.  Read up on the battle of Khaybar in which all Muslims agree that Imam Ali removed the door of the fortress where 40 men were unable to do so.  At the same time, Imam Ali once was unable to break a piece of bread.  However, when doing something for the sake of Allah, believers find extraordinary strength.

[albaqyr]

See this link http://www.yasoob.co.../09/no0995.html page 191. Shia web.

This incident is not in the sunni books. But author of sharh nahj Al-Balagha, Ibn Abul Hadeed who is a sunni scholar refers to this incident and says I rely on this despite it being narrated in the shia books.

[toocoool66]

assalam-o-allaikom

brother if you are asking about the case of malik bin nauwara and his wife layla....that incident is quoted in history written by tibri....also in history written by abu-ul-fida.....

[Drjunaid]

i am Shia (alhamdullah) and honestly, . Ha-drat Khalid Bin Waled was beloved friend of Imam Ali(AS) and cherished trustworthy of Arab Empire, not just that his legends spoke highly of him but his foes gave him credit for his in-matchable bravery and molten heart. Imam Ali (A.S) and Khalid were great friends, both loved by Prophet Muhammad (SAW). Khalid has never lost even a single battle. Mighty as Allah wanted him to be...

Imam Ali(AS) on other hand is Lion of Allah, Khalid is Sword of Allah. Shia Islam never beliefs that Khalid(AS) did anything which would ever hurt Imam Ali(AS), Most of the lame ignorance against great Islamic legends sprout from Pakistani's Shia's, and honestly they are not to be accused because this controversy was first ignited by Jews to make sure Muslims never Unite.

There is nothing i can do to make it more clear, as stated, Imam Mahdi(AS) has to come and edit all the wrong traditions on Holy Names and misconception among sects. Just to prove some sense in you guys, Prophet of Islam -Muhammad(SAW) will never appoint any person with objectionable moral values as COMMANDER OF MUSLIM ARMY, which was titled to Hadrat Khalid. If Ha-drat Omar was wrong, he wouldn't be lying next to grave of Holy Prophet- which is clear sign of strong affection.

APPEAL: i plead to all readers that the users above have mentioned instances which are not related to SHIA ISLAM. Shia Islam is pure and shows respect to all companions of Prophet of Islam (SAW).

[Waiting for HIM]

Drjunaid, on 25 December 2011 - 12:45 PM, said:

i am Shia (alhamdullah) and honestly, . Ha-drat Khalid Bin Waled was beloved friend of Imam Ali(AS) and cherished trustworthy of Arab Empire, not just that his legends spoke highly of him but his foes gave him credit for his in-matchable bravery and molten heart. Imam Ali (A.S) and Khalid were great friends, both loved by Prophet Muhammad (SAW). Khalid has never lost even a single battle. Mighty as Allah wanted him to be...

Imam Ali(AS) on other hand is Lion of Allah, Khalid is Sword of Allah. Shia Islam never beliefs that Khalid(AS) did anything which would ever hurt Imam Ali(AS), Most of the lame ignorance against great Islamic legends sprout from Pakistani's Shia's, and honestly they are not to be accused because this controversy was first ignited by Jews to make sure Muslims never Unite.

There is nothing i can do to make it more clear, as stated, Imam Mahdi(AS) has to come and edit all the wrong traditions on Holy Names and misconception among sects. Just to prove some sense in you guys, Prophet of Islam -Muhammad(SAW) will never appoint any person with objectionable moral values as COMMANDER OF MUSLIM ARMY, which was titled to Hadrat Khalid. If Ha-drat Omar was wrong, he wouldn't be lying next to grave of Holy Prophet- which is clear sign of strong affection.

APPEAL: i plead to all readers that the users above have mentioned instances which are not related to SHIA ISLAM. Shia Islam is pure and shows respect to all companions of Prophet of Islam (SAW).

Dude Salam, first of all, you are a very ignorant about the history. This is not a Pakistani Shia history, this is a universally known history that Khalid bin Walid was a rapist. He may have been good at one point in his life but that did not guarantee when the greed and kufr came back to him.

Umer being buried next to Prophet, how is this a virtue for Umer, I never understood. Logic, dude logic. Prophet has passed away 8 years ago. Umer died an hour ago. Did Prophet tell people to bury him next to Prophet - NO. Did the dead Umer ask to be buried next to prophet - NO. It was the will of the people after Umer who buried Umer next or prophet.

Yes Shia Islam is pure and only Islam (everything else is just plain falsehood), and partly the reason because Shia Islam does not make idiots into demigods, we believe in Allah (swt) and believe in all those who are nominated by Allah (swt) only.

Edited by Waiting for HIM, 25 December 2011 - 09:28 PM.

[Drjunaid]

well! honestly, i am not bred in Muslim environment so its pretty likely that i don't know much things but some things i do know, and thats the things i talk about. i dont expect you to rationalize my quotes or  bridge an equal understanding. My views clearly differ from a normal Shia, its not new for me to see tide running against me

logically speaking, Allah will never let an infidel bury right next to him, would he? right next to the prophet he loved most... would he? This website, literally speaking, is full of people who are poisoned with the fire let by Jews long time ago...

yes fella, to your question...for example PBUH said, i quote :


"The Prophet said: Verily Isa ibn Maryam shall descend as an equitable judge and fair ruler.  He shall tread his path on the way to hajj (pilgrimage) and come to my grave to greet me, and I shall certainly answer him!"  this means that prophet even knew who is going to be buried next to me and come to pay a visit.
Hakim Mustadrak (2:651) # 4162 as related by Abu Harayra quoted in Kabbani, p. 237

this means that prophet even knew who is going to be buried next to him and even come to pay a visit.
Muhammad PBUH said, i quote that Jesus will come back to fight for them and rule for 40 years, die, and buried next to me (Muhammad PBUH).  ( Tirmidhi, as quoted in Jesus (Isa) A.S. in Islam, and his Second Coming by Mufti A.H. Elias)

there are many evident sayings from reliable sources that Hadrat Omer and Hadrat Abu Baker, were both promised a place next to Muhammad PBUH, in his Muhammad PBUH's life time.. i can copy them here, but am think that would be in vain because most of the people believe in things, they wont change no matter how evident i become,.

Prophet PBUH, foresee nearly everything, he PBUH holy visions... he even told how many children Jesus will have when he will come back. he PBUH knew all...

[The_Return]

MAY Allah CURSE KHALID BIN WALEED (LA) He was indeed the most despicable excuse for a human, indeed calling such a individual a human is a crime to humanity, and anyone who doesnt curse this son of zinah MAY Allah CURSE THEM ALSO AMEEN!

[abdulazim]

Drjunaid, on 25 December 2011 - 12:45 PM, said:

If Ha-drat Omar was wrong, he wouldn't be lying next to grave of Holy Prophet- which is clear sign of strong affection.

since when is bieng buried next to someone a strong sign of affection if the request was not made by the Holy Prophet (saww) that umar be buried next to him,  uthman ibn affan is buried with the jews of medina so what does that make him?

[worshiper]

logically speaking, Allah will never let an infidel bury right next to him, would he?





Allah(swt) wants us to be absolutely correct. are we?




my shia brother try using SAWW after using  prophets pure name not just SAW.

[The_Return]

Drjunaid, on 26 December 2011 - 07:17 PM, said:

logically speaking, Allah will never let an infidel bury right next to him, would he? right next to the prophet he loved most... would he?

Thats why no miracle ever takes place at the grave of the prophet (saw), the whole place is contaminated by those two (la)

[asif khan110]

The_Return, on 29 December 2011 - 06:59 PM, said:

Thats why no miracle ever takes place at the grave of the prophet (saw), the whole place is contaminated by those two (la)

true

[zaheerhusain]

RASOOL ALLAH (SAAWS) WAS A NABI AND NABI's ARE BURIED AT THE  PLACE OF THEIR BIRTH, GENERAL RULE FOR BURYING IS ALSO THAT THE PLACE SHOULD BELONG TO HIM , OR BOUGHT OR GIFTED TO HIM , NONE OF THIS APPLIES TO OMAR OR ABU BAKAR , BECAUSE THE PLACE WAS THE PERSONAL PROPERTY OF AANHAZRAT (SAAWS) AND HE WAS NOT THERE TO GRANT PERMISSION. IT MEANS THEY WERE USURPER IN THEIR LIFE AS WELL AS AFTER DEATH TOO AND SHALL REMAIN IN AZAAB E QABR TILL QAYAMAH .iF ANY ONE HAS ANY EXPLAINATION , KINDLY ENLIGHTEN ME .
I do not believe Khalid bin Waleed story ever having courage to attack Imam Ali (a s ) and without an attack he will put a rod in his neck is also too much to believe moreever, neither abu bakar had this much courage to order the assasination of Maula Ali (a s) the Karrar ghair e  farrar nor Khalid waleed could ever dare.
Close proximity of being buried near the Rasool's grave , if is a virtue then it is a curse to be buried surrounded by Jews . Osman had that sad fate.

[zaheerhusain]

Drjunaid, on 26 December 2011 - 07:17 PM, said:

well! honestly, i am not bred in Muslim environment so its pretty likely that i don't know much things but some things i do know, and thats the things i talk about. i dont expect you to rationalize my quotes or  bridge an equal understanding. My views clearly differ from a normal Shia, its not new for me to see tide running against me

logically speaking, Allah will never let an infidel bury right next to him, would he? right next to the prophet he loved most... would he? This website, literally speaking, is full of people who are poisoned with the fire let by Jews long time ago...

yes fella, to your question...for example PBUH said, i quote :


"The Prophet said: Verily Isa ibn Maryam shall descend as an equitable judge and fair ruler.  He shall tread his path on the way to hajj (pilgrimage) and come to my grave to greet me, and I shall certainly answer him!"  this means that prophet even knew who is going to be buried next to me and come to pay a visit.
Hakim Mustadrak (2:651) # 4162 as related by Abu Harayra quoted in Kabbani, p. 237

this means that prophet even knew who is going to be buried next to him and even come to pay a visit.
Muhammad PBUH said, i quote that Jesus will come back to fight for them and rule for 40 years, die, and buried next to me (Muhammad PBUH).  ( Tirmidhi, as quoted in Jesus (Isa) A.S. in Islam, and his Second Coming by Mufti A.H. Elias)

there are many evident sayings from reliable sources that Hadrat Omer and Hadrat Abu Baker, were both promised a place next to Muhammad PBUH, in his Muhammad PBUH's life time.. i can copy them here, but am think that would be in vain because most of the people believe in things, they wont change no matter how evident i become,.

Prophet PBUH, foresee nearly everything, he PBUH holy visions... he even told how many children Jesus will have when he will come back. he PBUH knew all...

zaheerhusain, on 05 January 2013 - 10:52 AM, said:

RASOOL ALLAH (SAAWS) WAS A NABI AND NABI's ARE BURIED AT THE  PLACE OF THEIR BIRTH, GENERAL RULE FOR BURYING IS ALSO THAT THE PLACE SHOULD BELONG TO HIM , OR BOUGHT OR GIFTED TO HIM , NONE OF THIS APPLIES TO OMAR OR ABU BAKAR , BECAUSE THE PLACE WAS THE PERSONAL PROPERTY OF AANHAZRAT (SAAWS) AND HE WAS NOT THERE TO GRANT PERMISSION. IT MEANS THEY WERE USURPER IN THEIR LIFE AS WELL AS AFTER DEATH TOO AND SHALL REMAIN IN AZAAB E QABR TILL QAYAMAH .iF ANY ONE HAS ANY EXPLAINATION , KINDLY ENLIGHTEN ME .
I do not believe Khalid bin Waleed story ever having courage to attack Imam Ali (a s ) and without an attack he will put a rod in his neck is also too much to believe moreever, neither abu bakar had this much courage to order the assasination of Maula Ali (a s) the Karrar ghair e  farrar nor Khalid waleed could ever dare.
Close proximity of being buried near the Rasool's grave , if is a virtue then it is a curse to be buried surrounded by Jews . Osman had that sad fate.

Dear Dr.Junaid .
As a Shia  you need lot of studies ,where from you  came to know that only nobles can be buried besides the nobles and vice versa . BEcause by that standard Osman ibne Affan is buried surrounded by Kuffar e  Yahood . Logically also what matters is what a person believed and what he or she did in life .

Drjunaid, on 26 December 2011 - 07:17 PM, said:

well! honestly, i am not bred in Muslim environment so its pretty likely that i don't know much things but some things i do know, and thats the things i talk about. i dont expect you to rationalize my quotes or  bridge an equal understanding. My views clearly differ from a normal Shia, its not new for me to see tide running against me

logically speaking, Allah will never let an infidel bury right next to him, would he? right next to the prophet he loved most... would he? This website, literally speaking, is full of people who are poisoned with the fire let by Jews long time ago...

yes fella, to your question...for example PBUH said, i quote :


"The Prophet said: Verily Isa ibn Maryam shall descend as an equitable judge and fair ruler.  He shall tread his path on the way to hajj (pilgrimage) and come to my grave to greet me, and I shall certainly answer him!"  this means that prophet even knew who is going to be buried next to me and come to pay a visit.
Hakim Mustadrak (2:651) # 4162 as related by Abu Harayra quoted in Kabbani, p. 237

this means that prophet even knew who is going to be buried next to him and even come to pay a visit.
Muhammad PBUH said, i quote that Jesus will come back to fight for them and rule for 40 years, die, and buried next to me (Muhammad PBUH).  ( Tirmidhi, as quoted in Jesus (Isa) A.S. in Islam, and his Second Coming by Mufti A.H. Elias)

there are many evident sayings from reliable sources that Hadrat Omer and Hadrat Abu Baker, were both promised a place next to Muhammad PBUH, in his Muhammad PBUH's life time.. i can copy them here, but am think that would be in vain because most of the people believe in things, they wont change no matter how evident i become,.

Prophet PBUH, foresee nearly everything, he PBUH holy visions... he even told how many children Jesus will have when he will come back. he PBUH knew all...

My Dear Doctor
You will be disappointed if you learn who was Hazrat Omar Ibnal Khattab . You may not believe the  story , I did because there is  a lot of relationship between the hasab wa nasab , todays research also confirm that the genes and DNA matters a lot and the later events like terror attack on the door of one's own Nabi's daughter
is a testimony to the truth . So please see the video on YouTube  حضرت عمر کا شجرہ نسب and make your own judgement , and please note that there are many references from Ahle Sunnah