90 replies to this topic

[nattkhatt]

Brothels have always existed in the sub-continent. Seems you have just grown up.

[Ibn-e-Reza]

nattkhatt, on Aug 10 2008, 07:42 AM, said:

Brothels have always existed in the sub-continent. Seems you have just grown up.

Dear nattkhatt,

[nattkhatt]

[Aabiss_Shakari]

Where i said they never existed? I was saying that their number and the illegal/immoral profession of prostitution has spread much.

[nattkhatt]

You are just noticing them more; since you have grown up

[Rawshni]

Quit badgering the boy

[Aabiss_Shakari]

Lol hahaha. No i am not noticing them more. This is not the reason.

[Ibn-e-Reza]

nattkhatt, on Aug 10 2008, 08:06 AM, said:

You are just noticing them more; since you have grown up

Rawshni, on Aug 10 2008, 08:07 AM, said:

Quit badgering the boy

Yes, quit that already!  

[Rawshni]

Aabiss_Shakari, on Aug 10 2008, 08:25 AM, said:

Lol hahaha. No i am not noticing them more. This is not the reason.

If you are not noticing them more, how come it has come to your notice that they are increasing?

[otowi]

Syeda Mobeena Ahmad, on Jul 6 2008, 08:16 AM, said:

Mutah is an ordained halal act. Yet there is a totally negative attitude about among Shia women in India and Pakistan.

I would like to know the reasons.

I wonder if they did mutah, would the men in India and Pakistan still marry them permanently and regard them with honor?  If not, maybe that is why.  Most women, after all, ultimately want honor and permanent marriage.

[Hopeful]

Akbar007, on Jul 6 2008, 04:04 PM, said:

I know a couple of people who have done mutah for companionship without any physical relationship. One of them wanted to get to know the potential spouse better in this way. This might be a positive sign that people are slowly educating themselves about the benefits of mutah.

I really promote this kind of mutah

[Hopeful]

Cyan_Garamond, on Jul 16 2008, 06:16 PM, said:

What's wrong with 'legal prostitition' if it truly is legal by God?  What is prostitution?  Effectively, it is a woman selling her body/sex for money and a man purchasing such services for money/compensation, and thereby they both fulfill a need.  Now, it may not always be the best resort, but it fulfills God-given needs in a way.  It is said that divorce shakes the Throne of God, but it is still allowed and done.  Similary, eating zabiha beef is also halal, but may not be always a great idea.

I see nothing wrong with mutah or a truly 'legal prostitution', which is one way of describing mutah; although, mutah is how you use it really, as it need not involve sex either.  Thus, a girl who conducts mutah is not necessarily a 'prostitute', which is merely a derogatory term for the practicionern of this natural and legal phenomenon.  There is even a narration that from the Imams that one should do mutah at least once in a lifetime.

I have even read of a prominent arif and teacher of ethics in Najaf who basically did the same thing while a youth.  It is healthy and necessary in moderation, as are all other things.

Mutah is frowned upon only due to deeply-ingrained cultural mindsets of the Subcontinent and other places, nothing else.

Bro, my example describes a place where mutah is used as exploitation of poor women. We can very well say that the woman has agreed, but under normal economic conditions, she wouldn't have agreed, so, in a way, it is exploitation. Thats the lust I despise. If the girl and boy agree wholeheartedly to do mutah, who am I to object.

I do not consider a girl who has done mutah, to be a prostitute, if she has not done it for money. If she has done it for money, I call it her exploitation due to the inability of the society to give her enough means to earn her livelihood.

[Syeda Mobeena Ahmad]

Money, by the way, has always been a consideratioion in 99 percent of marriages, temporary or permanent. Mahr is most often money, immediate or deffered, and it is the sole discretion of the woman to accept or reject what is offered, and to waive what she accepted if wants to waive it.

[oldnews]

Syeda Mobeena Ahmad, on Sep 14 2008, 04:18 AM, said:

Money, by the way, has always been a consideratioion in 99 percent of marriages, temporary or permanent. Mahr is most often money, immediate or deffered, and it is the sole discretion of the woman to accept or reject what is offered, and to waive what she accepted if wants to waive it.

That is extremely indecent and not to be condoned.

[maqeelr]

Syeda Mobeena Ahmad, on Jul 6 2008, 06:26 PM, said:

At least the wom,en I am talking about have pretty much as much knowledge about the subject as the more knowledgeable Shia man.

It is just that due to inexplicable reason, they find it unacceptable.

I think we should say thx God that they have negative attitude about mutah...

The big reason in Pakistan & India about the negative attitude is... that there are some girls related with the profession of prostitution are calling their sick profession as mutah and also showing herself as a shia girls... I'm from Pak.. I know that girls of Hera Mandi (Lahore) are arranging majalis for Moharram and showing herself as shia and doing their business under the rules of Mutah... and our Pakistani Law cant do anything against those girls.... and becoz of these girls our religion is being notorious....

Mutah is really sick...

everybody is giving positive comments on it... but nobody knows its that type of side effects...

What you people say about it?

Edited by maqeelr, 12 October 2008 - 03:50 AM.

[Jondab_Azdi]

maqeelr, on Oct 12 2008, 01:46 PM, said:

I think we should say thx God that they have negative attitude about mutah...

'Thank God' for their negative attitude about something recommended by Imams of Ahl al-bayt(a)?  

[maqeelr]

Jondab_Azdi, on Oct 12 2008, 12:49 PM, said:

'Thank God' for their negative attitude about something recommended by Imams of Ahl al-bayt(a)?  

Please read the complete post...

[Jondab_Azdi]

^I already read the complete post. Even if it is being misused, it is wrong to call it 'sick' or show 'negative attitude' about something recommended by Imams(a).


And BTW, Pak women are not against mutah. It's just the requirement of 'father's-permission-for-virgin', which stops them from practicing mutah.


w/s

Edited by Jondab_Azdi, 12 October 2008 - 04:01 AM.

[maqeelr]

Jondab_Azdi, on Oct 12 2008, 01:01 PM, said:

^I already read the complete post. Even if it is being misused, it is wrong to call it 'sick' or show 'negative attitude' about something recommended by Imams(a).


And BTW, Pak women are not against mutah. It's just the requirement of 'father's-permission-for-virgin', which stops them from practicing mutah.


w/s

Well... I know its according to Islam... but I'm not satisfied about it...

[SpIzo]

QUESTION:

          What is your idea about ESTEHBAABE-MOT'E? Have we got any HADITH 'bout that?

ANSWER:

                             Bismihi-l-Haqq

There is unanimity amongst the Muslims that temporary marriage (mut'ah) was sanctioned and approved by the Qur'an and the sunnah of the Prophet (S).  The dispute on this issue between the Shia and the Sunnis centres on whether or not this legislation was abrogated by a subsequent Qur'anic verse and hadith-reports of the Prophet (S).  Our position  (i.e. Shia), which can be documented with solid evidence, is that no such abrogation took place in the lifetime of the Prophet. Recently, an M.A. thesis on Mut'ah by Br. Riad Ahmad was submitted to the Department of Islamic Studies at McGill University.  It has gone for binding and cataloguing, and should be available in a few months.

The legislation on temporary marriage (mut'ah) is commonly invoked to stigmatize the Shiah and is equated to a form of legalized prostitution. Such a misconception is due to the inability to position this institution within the larger social context.  Islamic social legislation is comprehensive and thus must address all possible scenarios.  Preservation of this practice was so important that the Imams (a.s.) used to encourage their followers to contract mut'ah.  The hadiths that recommend mut'ah have to be understood in this context, i.e. it was meant to revive (yuhyi) and maintain this institution.  See for example the hadith from Wasa'il-us-Shi'ah (Tehran, 1397 A.H. vol.14,
p. 444)  under the chapter on Nikah and section on Desirability (Istihbaab) of Contracting Mut'ah: On the authority of the 6th Imam (a) who is reported to have said that every man who contracts mut'ah and then performs the ghusl, God creates from every drop (of water) that drips from him seventy angels who seek his forgiveness till the Day of Judgment . . .  Another hadith says that He forgives sins when one perfoms the ghusl equal to the number of hair.  Other traditions that recommend mut'ah: I love a man who does not leave this world until he contracts mut'ah even if it is only once, and prays jum'ah in a congregation; once the sixth Imam (a.s.) asked his companion Muhammad b. Muslim if he had ever performed mut'ah to which he replied no.  The Imam said that do not leave this world until you have revived (tuhyi) the sunnah.  You will notice that wherever the Imams strongly recommend mut'ah, it is in the context of reviving the sunnah of the Prophet (S). This becomes even clearer when we examine the hadith reports that discourage (karaahat) mut'ah for those who already have access to their permanent wives.  This is the view of Professor Murtada Mutahhari and Ayatullah Fadlullah.  The latter believes that mut'ah can be prohibited if it is warranted for the preservation of public interest.

I should clarify, however, that all present-day jurists allow men to enter into a mutah contract irrespective of whether they are permanently married or not.  Ayatullah Fadlullah puts a limit of 4 wives, inclusive of permanent and temporay wives, whereas others put no restriction on the number of temporary wives.  It is prohibited to marry a virgin in both temporary and permanent marriage without the consent of her guardian (wali).  It is also reprehensible (makruh) to engage in mut'ah contract with a virgin.

wa bi-l-laahi-t-tawfiq,

Hamid Mavani

Sources:  Sachiko Murata, Temporay Marriage (Mut'a) in Islamic Law
          The Rights of Women in Islam
          Mohammad Sharif, Innocently Accused: Fixed Term Marriage
          Al-Amili, Wasa'il-us-Shi'ah
          Al-Urwat-ul-Wuthqa with commentaries by marjas
          Ayat. Fadlullah, Ta'ammulat-ul-Islamiyyah hawl-al-Mar'ah

http://www.al-islam....k/msg00029.html

[wayfarer.]

jazakallah khayr , barakallah feek

[maqeelr]

I accept it... but at least I'll not allow myself to do this...

[Candela]

Jondab_Azdi, on Oct 12 2008, 11:01 AM, said:

^I already read the complete post. Even if it is being misused, it is wrong to call it 'sick' or show 'negative attitude' about something recommended by Imams(a).


And BTW, Pak women are not against mutah. It's just the requirement of 'father's-permission-for-virgin', which stops them from practicing mutah.
w/s

Can you explain the bold part further? I don't know what it implies, care to develop that? It may be relevant to a thread I just made also.  
Ws

[madscientist86]

Aslam Alikum,

Good discussion here. It appears alot of sisters are against the issue however brothers favour it. I only have two questions though. How many brothers are willing to give their sisters for mutah? Everyone blames us Pakistanis for avoiding certain rules. How many brothers are willing to give their daughters for mutah? If Pakistani women are against this issue then so be it. It is not about culture but personal issue. If a girl does not want to open her self to random guys every 4-5months then it is her own choice. Those who do not follow the rule have a choices. It is not wajib but allowed if need be. Similarly in the time of Hazrat Ali a woman gave her self to a man (zina) in return for some water however there are women who would rather die. Please do not accuse people of false belief and do not tell people to shut up before seeing things from their point of view. Do not assume that because smoking is mukhroo so it shall be for all because I would in deed curse my self for eternity for smoking. Please do not say this is allowed so it has to be done as divorce is also allowed even though it is disliked. Would people who agree to divorce would like to see their own sisters going through divorce? Reading the rules and understanding them are two different things. First read then think and then open your mouths.

Peace

Edited by madscientist86, 04 January 2009 - 03:26 PM.

[BaZaRi]

The negative attitude may be arising from the following reasons:

1. Generally, subcontinent men do NOT want to marry woman who are not virgins (unless they are the cause of it in the first place) or who have had previous relationships. Look at number of young widowed woman who find it hard to get married again. This makes a woman want to guard herself till she is permanently married.

2. Subcontinent Men (and parents-in-laws) always want to take dowry. In Mutah, they will have to give Mahr which is something incomprehensible to them.

3. There are not enough examples to look up from lives of our Imams in this regard. So the act being allowed has no practical examples to relate to. This is ingrained in all our minds. In the west, where promiscuous relations are in plenty, people find it quite normal to engage in Mutah

4. The laws in subcontinent are not favourable to woman whose husbands neglect them. Now imagine a married woman fighting for her rights and not succeeding and think of the plight of a woman whose mutah has ended and has no recourse in case she has been wronged. In developed countries, once one is married, the wife/ex-wife can claim half of her husbands property, so there is an "incentive" to get in to a mutah.