64 replies to this topic

[786milaadz]

I hope i don't insult anyone with this    . But my question is, are you allowed to eat food made my hindus/sikhs? & even chinese? like if its chutney, or in a restaurant ? or w/e.
My family usually doesnt and my friend does, so i wanted to let her know.  & to know for myself. [o & my friends is sunni but i still tell her this stuff. ]
Thanks !

[Hasan Farhan Naqvi]

786milaadz, on Apr 5 2008, 05:29 AM, said:

I hope i don't insult anyone with this    . But my question is, are you allowed to eat food made my hindus/sikhs? & even chinese? like if its chutney, or in a restaurant ? or w/e.
My family usually doesnt and my friend does, so i wanted to let her know.  & to know for myself. [o & my friends is sunni but i still tell her this stuff. ]
Thanks !

I don't think it is allowed. Not even food made by Christians should be consumed by Muslims.

Maybe some other brother or sister could shed some light.

Wasalam

[roah_fatima]

Hasan Farhan Naqvi, on Apr 5 2008, 10:32 AM, said:

I don't think it is allowed. Not even food made by Christians should be consumed by Muslims.

Maybe some other brother or sister could shed some light.

Wasalam

Reallyyy????
But thats kind of impossible because most food shops are owned by christians, hindus, chinese etc...

[koroigetsuga]

786milaadz, on Apr 4 2008, 07:29 PM, said:

I hope i don't insult anyone with this    . But my question is, are you allowed to eat food made my hindus/sikhs? & even chinese? like if its chutney, or in a restaurant ? or w/e.
My family usually doesnt and my friend does, so i wanted to let her know.  & to know for myself. [o & my friends is sunni but i still tell her this stuff. ]
Thanks !

You can have whatever food you want so long as its halal

[Hasan Farhan Naqvi]

koroigetsuga, on Apr 5 2008, 05:39 AM, said:

You can have whatever food you want so long as its halal

Better to check with a marja then!

[fyst]

According to almost, all Shia scholars, Hindus, Atheists, Agnostics, Sikhs, are all najis, so it is impermissible to eat food that they have come into contact with with WET hands. According to Ayatullah Sistani, it is permissible to eat food prepared by Christians and Jews, since they are not considered najis, though it is better to avoid it.

[Hasan Farhan Naqvi]

fyst, on Apr 5 2008, 05:48 AM, said:

According to almost, all Shia scholars, Hindus, Atheists, Agnostics, Sikhs, are all najis, so it is impermissible to eat food that they have come into contact with with WET hands. According to Ayatullah Sistani, it is permissible to eat food prepared by Christians and Jews, since they are not considered najis, though it is better to avoid it.

Pretty hard to ensure that WET hands have not touched the food!!

As far as I know, even most Sunni scholars have the same ruling.

[Qa'im]

Please brothers, use the Qur'an for your answers.

Surat al Ma'idah, Ayah 3 says:



"Forbidden unto you (for food) are carrion and blood and swineflesh, and that which hath been dedicated unto any other than Allah, and the strangled, and the dead through beating, and the dead through falling from a height, and that which hath been killed by (the goring of) horns, and the devoured of wild beasts, saving that which ye make lawful (by the death-stroke), and that which hath been immolated unto idols. And (forbidden is it) that ye swear by the divining arrows. This is an abomination. This day are those who disbelieve in despair of (ever harming) your religion; so fear them not, fear Me! This day have I perfected your religion for you and completed My favour unto you, and have chosen for you as religion al-Islam. Whoso is forced by hunger, not by will, to sin: (for him) lo! Allah is Forgiving, Merciful."

Any piece of meat dedicated to another god (like Krishna, Vishnu, Ganesh, Shiva, etc) is forbidden in the fold of Islam. However, if you are starving to death and are forced to eat it by hunger, then Allah is Forgiving and Merciful.

[Hasan Farhan Naqvi]

koroigetsuga, on Apr 5 2008, 05:39 AM, said:

You can have whatever food you want so long as its halal

It would be good to avoid giving such definitive statements as your above mentioned one! These are very tricky issues and should be reasearched well before passing remarks with such confidence. This would be for the benefit of all.

Wasalam

[fyst]

Hasan Farhan Naqvi, on Apr 4 2008, 08:52 PM, said:

Pretty hard to ensure that WET hands have not touched the food!!

You don't have to ensure this. If you are unaware of any such contact, you can take the benefit of the doubt and consider it tahir. Investigation is not an obligation in this case.

Quote

As far as I know, even most Sunni scholars have the same ruling.

From what I've read, Sunni's do not have this restriction on eating food prepared by non-muslims, or non-ahlulkitab.

[UndercoverBrother]

Lets not forget how the Hindu in India won't even eat food from muslims or other lower castes so when trying to understand this ruling do not involve emotion but just follow the hukm.

[kadhim]

786milaadz, on Apr 4 2008, 08:29 PM, said:

I hope i don't insult anyone with this    . But my question is, are you allowed to eat food made my hindus/sikhs? & even chinese? like if its chutney, or in a restaurant ? or w/e.
My family usually doesnt and my friend does, so i wanted to let her know.  & to know for myself. [o & my friends is sunni but i still tell her this stuff. ]
Thanks !

Depends on the scholar you care to listen to.  
The trend over time is that scholars are liberalizing this judgement.  Used to be once upon a time the consensus was that all non-Muslims were najis.  Now the "consensus" is that all non-Ahlil kitab are najis. But even that is eroding as time goes by.  Increasingly, there are scholars that recognize that inherently, all humans are tahir.
Eventually it is quite foreseeable that this will become the new consensus.

After all, why would any human be inherently najis aside from any question of how they live, their hygiene, etc.?

[Shiatullah]

I am not sure if it is OK to assume the food has not been prepared with wet hands...I thought for issues of food you had to be sure it was halal and any doubt renders it haraam.






Hasan Sajjad
President

[Simba]

Go to www.najaf.org and check out the book 'Code of practise for muslims in the west'

Here's a link to it..

http://www.najaf.org/english/book/5/

select eating and drinking on the left and dubmenu on the right..

[avjar7]

The Qur'an says:

"Today, all good food is made lawful for you. The food of the people of the scripture is lawful for you. Also, you may marry the chaste women among the believers, as well as the chaste women among the followers of previous scripture, provided you pay them their due dowries. You shall maintain chastity, not committing adultery, nor taking secret lovers. Anyone who rejects faith, all his work will be in vain, and in the Hereafter he will be with the losers." 5:5

This ayat makes it clear that it's permissible to eat the food of Jews and Christians.  So, food that is certified as being slaughtered "kosher" is legal for Muslims to eat.  However, most Christians today don't observe any special rules about slaughtering, so it can't be applied.  On the day of the Battle of Khaibar the Prophet was invited to eat a lamb that had been prepared by a Jewish woman.  The Prophet took one bite and realized the lamb had been poisoned and one of the sahaba died:

Narrated Abu Huraira: When Khaibar was conquered, a roasted poisoned sheep was presented to the Prophet as a gift by the Jews.  Sahih Bukhari Book #53, Hadith #394.  Also related by Muslim (number 2190), Al-Mustadrak (numbers 4967 and 7090), Abu Dawud (numbers 4508, 4509, and 4512), Bayhaqi (numbers 15784, 15786, 15789, 15791, and 19500), Darami (number 67), Darqutni (number 130), and Imam Ahmad’s collection (numbers 2785 and 3547).

The Prophet also set the example of the permissibility of conducting business transactions with non-Muslims:

Narrated 'Abdur-Rahman bin Abu Bakr: We were one hundred and thirty men sitting with the Prophet. The Prophet said, "Have anyone of you any food with him?" It happened that one man had one Sa of wheat flour (or so) which was turned into dough then. After a while a tall lanky pagan came, driving some sheep. The Prophet asked, 'Will you sell us (a sheep), or give (it to) us as a gift?" The pagan said, "No, but I will sell it " So the Prophet bought from him a sheep which was slaughtered, and then the Prophet ordered that the liver, the kidneys, lungs and heart, etc., of that sheep be roasted. By Allah, none of those one hundred and thirty men but had his share of those things. The Prophet gave to those who were present, and also kept a share for those who were absent He then served that cooked sheep in two big trays and we all ate together our fill; yet there remained a part of it in those two trays which I carried on the camel.  Sahih Bukhari Book #65, #294.

Additionally, there is a hadith narrated about a group of people who had recently accepted Islam and sent some meat as a gift to the Prophet.  While the Muslims knew it had been slaughtered in a halal manner, they were unsure whether the new converts had known to recite Bismillah while slaughtering:

Narrated 'Aisha: Some people said, "O Allah's Apostle! meat is brought to us by some people and we are not sure whether the name of Allah has been mentioned on it or not (at the time of slaughtering the animals)." Allah's Apostle said (to them), "Mention the name of Allah and eat it."  Sahih Bukarhi Book #34, Hadith #273.

From a Shia perspective (http://www.najaf.org/english/book/5/):

-Since the followers of the past revealed religions (that is, the Jews, the Christians and the Zoroastrians) are ritually pure, many of the problems concerning the status and permissibility of the food are resolved when we live in their midst. It becomes permissible for us as Muslims to eat from their food no matter whether they touched it with their wet hands or not as long as we do not know or are not sure that it consists of what is forbidden to us, like intoxicating drinks. As for meat, fat and their extracts, there are specific rules that will be discussed later on.

-A Muslim is allowed to eat the food prepared by a non-Muslim who is not from Ahlul Kitab [for example, a Hindu or a Buddhist], provided that he does not know or is not sure that the non-Muslim touched the food with wetness; and provided that he does not know or is not sure that the food consists of what is forbidden to him like intoxicating drinks. As for meat, fat and their extracts, there are specific rules that will come later on.

-A Muslim is allowed to eat any food made by a person whose faith and religion is not known to him, no matter whether that person touched it with wetness or did not touch it, provided that he does not know or is not sure that the food consists of what is forbidden to him. As for meat, fat, and their extracts, there are specific rules that will come later on.
t is not necessary for the Muslim to question the person who prepared the food about his beliefs or disbeliefs, or whether or not he had touched the food, even if that inquiry is very convenient and natural for one who wants to ask.
In short, all kinds of food with the exception of meat, fat, and their extracts are permissible for a Muslim, even if he doubts that it might contain something which is forbidden for him to eat or doubts that its cook —whosoever he may be— had touched it with wetness.

-If a Muslim buys or receives meat from a non-Muslim, or from a Muslim who got it from a non-Muslim and did not inquire about its slaughtering according to Islamic laws, such meat is harãm for him. But if the Muslim does not know that the animal was not slaughtered according to Islamic laws, it would not be considered najis, although it is still harãm.

Hope this helps.

Edited by avjar7, 04 April 2008 - 11:01 PM.

[macisaac]

avjar7, on Apr 4 2008, 11:46 PM, said:

The Qur'an says:

"Today, all good food is made lawful for you. The food of the people of the scripture is lawful for you. Also, you may marry the chaste women among the believers, as well as the chaste women among the followers of previous scripture, provided you pay them their due dowries. You shall maintain chastity, not committing adultery, nor taking secret lovers. Anyone who rejects faith, all his work will be in vain, and in the Hereafter he will be with the losers." 5:5

This ayat makes it clear that it's permissible to eat the food of Jews and Christians.  So, food that is certified as being slaughtered "kosher" is legal for Muslims to eat.  However, most Christians today don't observe any special rules about slaughtering, so it can't be applied.

Actually, Shi`as generally understand this differently.  Let me quote from Sayyid Muhammad Rizvi on the subject:

Quote

What is your understanding of the ayat, meaning:.. the food of ahlul
kitab is halal for you.."

I am referring " ahlul kitab food" like meat, as the related topic we
are discussing now. Would you coment on that?


ANSWER:

The ayat to which you have referred is ayat no. 5 in chapter 5; it says:

        "The FOOD of the people who have been given the Book is
         lawful for you and your food is lawful for them."

The Arabic word translated above as "food" is "ta`aam". Although this
word is used for "food" in general, but in this verse it means only
"grains" because of the following reasons:

(1) In the usage of the people of Hijaz (i.e., Mecca and Medina), it was
particularly used for "wheat". See the famous Arabic dictionaries like
Lisanu 'l-`Arab and Ibn Athir's an-Nihayah.

(2) Whenever the word "ta`aam" has been used as a noun and without any
genitive construction (izafat) in the Qur'an, it usually means only
"wheat". See the commentaries of most Muslim scholars on verses 2:184,
5:95 and 76:8.

(3) The Imams of Ahlu 'l-Bayt (a.s.) have also said that the word
"ta`aam" in this verse means "wheat and other grains".

For further details see, `Allamah at-Tabataba'i, al-Mizan, vol. 5 (Arabic
edition) p. 217, 227-231 wherein the late `Allamah has refuted the
interpretation given by a prominent Sunni scholar of Egypt on the
permissibility of eating the meat slaughtered by the Jews and the
Christians (Ahlu 'l-Kitab). In the English translation edition of
al-Mizan, this verse will be covered in volume 9 which is next in line
for printing.

Where there is some difference of opinion amongst the Shi`i fuqaha is in the situation say that a Kitabi would perform the zabiha in accordance with our laws (i.e. with tasmiyya and so on), would it be halal or is it conditional that the slaughterer be Muslim?  The latter is the more common opinion, but some have supported the former.  At any rate, as you mention Christians don't generally follow any religious ritual method of slaughter, so it's out.  However even kosher (unlike what a lot of folks tend to think) doesn't actually qualify.  For us, tasmiyya (pronouncing the name of Allah over the animal prior to slaughter) is a condition, however with them:

Quote

In Shechita, a blessing to God is recited before beginning an uninterrupted period of slaughtering; as long as the Shochet does not have a lengthy pause, interrupt, or otherwise lose concentration, this blessing covers all the animals slaughtered that period. This blessing follows the standard form for a blessing before most Jewish rituals ("Blesséd are you God ... who commanded us regarding [such-and-such]," in this case, Shechita). The general rule in Judaism is that for rituals which have an associated blessing, if one omitted the blessing, the ritual is still valid [see Maimonides Laws of Blessings 11:5]; as such, even if the shochet failed to recite the blessing before Shechita, the slaughter is still valid and the meat is kosher. [Maimonides Laws of Slaughter 1:2 and commentaries ad loc]

http://en.wikipedia....lal_and_kashrut



æóáÇó ÊóÃúßõáõæÇú ãöãøóÇ áóãú íõÐúßóÑö ÇÓúãõ Çááøåö Úóáóíúåö æóÅöäøóåõ áóÝöÓúÞñ æóÅöäøó ÇáÔøóíóÇØöíäó áóíõæÍõæäó Åöáóì ÃóæúáöíóÂÆöåöãú áöíõÌóÇÏöáõæßõãú æóÅöäú ÃóØóÚúÊõãõæåõãú Åöäøóßõãú áóãõÔúÑößõæäó {121

[Shakir 6:121] And do not eat of that on which Allah's name has not been mentioned, and that is most surely a transgression; and most surely the Shaitans suggest to their friends that they should contend with you; and if you obey them, you shall most surely be polytheists.

Edited by macisaac, 04 April 2008 - 11:28 PM.

[avjar7]

As salaamu aleykum macisaac.  The explanation you provided doesn't make a whole lot of sense, and anyway, has been interpreted differently by your own scholars.  Tafsir ibn Kathir states:

(The food of the People of the Scripture is lawful to you..) meaning, their slaughtered animals, as Ibn `Abbas, Abu Umamah, Mujahid, Sa'id bin Jubayr, 'Ikrimah, 'Ata, Al-Hasan, Makhul, Ibrahim An-Nakha'i, As-Suddi and Muqatil bin Hayyan stated. This ruling, that the slaughtered animals of the People of the Book are permissible for Muslims, is agreed on by the scholars, because the People of the Book believe that slaughtering for other than Allah is prohibited. They mention Allah's Name upon slaughtering their animals, even though they have deviant beliefs about Allah that do not befit His majesty.

Linguistically, ta3am ØÚÇã is a general word that means food.  The modern day word (in fus7a and Hijazi) for grain is 7ubub ÍÈæÈ  or 7abb ÍÈ.  The ancient Hijazi word for grain is "meerah" ãíÑÉ

In the ancient Hijaz ta3am would only mean wheat in very specific circumstances.  For instance, if you went to the market and said, "I want a pound of oranges, a pound of olives, and a pound of ta3am," in this case, because it's grouped with other stuff, it's known specifically to be wheat.  It's also known that in other parts of the Hijaz ta3am used to refer to dates.  It's sort of like in the US where 'cola,' 'coke,' 'soda,' and 'pop,' can all refer to the same thing or different things, based on the regional area and specific situation.  Anyway, all of this linguistic analysis is interesting, but it's clear from its usage in the other ayats that it refers to food in general, and in this ayat specifically used to denote meat.

Hope this helps.

[macisaac]

avjar7, on Apr 5 2008, 01:27 AM, said:

As salaamu aleykum macisaac.  The explanation you provided doesn't make a whole lot of sense, and anyway, has been interpreted differently by your own scholars.  Tafsir ibn Kathir states:

wa `alaykum as-salam,

Heh, believe me, Ibn Kathir is _not_ of our own scholars...  (He's the favorite mufassir it seems for the Wahhabis, having been a close student of Ibn Taymiyya who to them stands at about the top in terms of scholars (though to most everyone else, including traditional Sunnis, the man was a heretic (and certainly no friend of us Shias...)))

The meaning here in the verse has to have some restriction, after all, Christian eat pork, yet nobody would say we could eat that because it is the "food" of the Ahl al-Kitab.  

Anyhow, am I to understand you can read Arabic then?  Why didn't you say so then :-)  There's much, much more material (obviously) available for study if you can reference the original materials.  I don't know how interested you'd be in pursuing the study of this particular issue further, but if you are let me know and in sha Allah I'd provide you with some links to works of further discussion on the topic.  One that came to mind was an early treatise on this topic by Shaykh Mufid, Tahrim Dhaba'ih Ahl al-Kitab:

http://yasoob.net/bo.../00/no0013.html

In terms of the tafsir work that the above quote mentioned, `Allama Tabataba'i's al-Mizan, here's the volume he was referring to:

http://u-of-islam.ne...n/05/fehrs1.htm

[avjar7]

Sorry macisaac, when I said "your scholars," I was referring to the URL and associated text which I had pasted in my previous post.  The excerpt from Ibn Kathir was an aside seeking to demonstrate their similar attitudes.  Sorry for the confusion, I'll take a look at the links, thanks.

[Abuzar]

786milaadz, on Apr 5 2008, 05:29 AM, said:

I hope i don't insult anyone with this    . But my question is, are you allowed to eat food made my hindus/sikhs? & even chinese? like if its chutney, or in a restaurant ? or w/e.
My family usually doesnt and my friend does, so i wanted to let her know.  & to know for myself. [o & my friends is sunni but i still tell her this stuff. ]
Thanks !

Food prepared by non-Muslims, if consisting of halal ingredients is permissible to be eaten if it is not known with certainty that it has been touched by a non-Muslim with wet hands. If one doesn't know this with certainty, he/she is not required to do any research to ascertain it.

[Jaag]

Not eating halal food processed by non muslims with the premise of them having wet hands is very offensive and degrading to those non muslims as they are not even considered human beings. I think eating halal food processed by them is very halal.

[*Love AhleBayt*]

I also had this issue when i worked with a Hindu Boss.
And i had to write to IMam Ali Foundation about it. So here it is:

Question: Salam,I work in a dental clinic and my Boss is a Hindu. She kept coffee makers inher clinic, and sometimes i drink the coffee, and one day she forced me todrink some water when i went to her house for work. Am i allowed to do so?If not, in such cases, what must i do?Please tell me as soon as possible.

Amswer: In the Name of Allah, the Beneficent, the Merciful A Muslim is allowed to eat the food prepared by a non-Muslim who is not fromAhlul Kitãb [for example, a Hindu or a Buddhist], provided that he does notknow or is not sure that the non-Muslim touched the food with wetness; andprovided that he does not know or is not sure that the food consists of whatis forbidden to him like intoxicating drinks. As for meat, fat and theirextracts, there are specific rules. Wassalamu Alaykum

[avjar7]

As salaamu aleykum, why is there such an emphasis put on wet hands?  Does it become halal if the hands are dry?  Why is this being talked about so much?  Thanks.

[*Love AhleBayt*]

avjar7, on Apr 6 2008, 12:34 AM, said:

As salaamu aleykum, why is there such an emphasis put on wet hands?  Does it become halal if the hands are dry?  Why is this being talked about so much?  Thanks.

Wsalam

Sis/Bro, its not WE who're talking about it, its our great Marjas.
Honestly speaking, i too dont know why wet hands, maybe they know better.

[mmm]

Mrs F, on Apr 5 2008, 04:39 PM, said:

Wsalam

Sis/Bro, its not WE who're talking about it, its our great Marjas.
Honestly speaking, i too dont know why wet hands, maybe they know better.

Najisat transfers when there is wetness involved