35 replies to this topic

[sisachica1]

salam aleikom wr wb...
im a convert to islam...sunni..searching for the truth..well, yeah..the first step i made when i converted to islam...but im trying to make the second step to find more...
at the present time im searching information about the ismailis of Najran area in SAU...i would appreciate if any ismaili of the same thought that the those from najran have, would write here or contact me..
jazzakom allaho khair..
aziza

[Kaka]

I read something on the Ismaili and Zaydi Shias quite a while back. Way before i joined here. However i cant remember what it said lol. It was something an American newspaper. Thats alot of help i know!!

Its an interesting topic.

What type of Ismaili are they?

What are their relationship with the Sunnis and Zaydis? Or any twelvers, as i know there are some twelvers in Yemen

[mabus]

My Imam Muhammad al-Mahdi ibn al-Askari , guide me to You and keep me among the righteous and Your beloved.

The Ismaili of the Najran area are of the Mustali branch of Ismaili, meaning they followed the Fatimid prince al-Mustal's over his older brother Nizar's claim. After the passing of al-Mustansir, the two brothers fought over the claim to the throne. al-Mustal won and Nizar was put in jail, and according to Nizari history his son al-Hadi went to Alamut in Iran to hide, where his descendants eventually reclaimed the Imamate. Most Nizaris currently follow the Aga Khan, but a minority in Syria recognize a different (and now dead) lineage.

Eventually the current Mustali Ismailis lost the control of the Fatimid Empire to the Hafizi branch (which died out with the Fatimid Empire). Their twenty-first and final Imam, al-Qasim, is according to them currently in the Occultation and one day will return as al-Mahdi and bring about an age of justice. According to Mustali thought, there is a Dai (Dai al-Mutlaq) who is in direct communication with the hidden Imam and thereby leads the community.

There are three (or possibly more I think) branches of Mustali, and they differ among who the current dai is. The Sulaimani Bohra are in Yemen and Saudi Arabia, and are arguably the most orthodox branch in terms of the line of dais they follow. The Mustali in India eventually split from the Sulaimani in Yemen and Saudi Arabia, because a representative of the dawah in that nation claimed the position of Dai al-Mutlaq for himself. They are called the Dawoodi Bohra. Later there was a second split among the Dawoodi, and the Alavi Bohra were formed.

If I can be of any help in your search for the truth, and the true path of our beloved Ithna'Ashari Imams , I will more than oblige. Remember, the First is Muhammad and the Last is Muhammad , and their souls are all of the same essence. To reject one is to reject all of them. Wasalamu 'alaykom, wa 'ala Ahlul'bayt wa Imama Zamani.

Edited by mabus, 07 March 2008 - 05:30 PM.

[Sunni Star]

mabus, on Mar 7 2008, 05:25 PM, said:

My Imam Muhammad al-Mahdi ibn al-Askari , guide me to You and keep me among the righteous and Your beloved.

The Ismaili of the Najran area are of the Mustali branch of Ismaili, meaning they followed the Fatimid prince al-Mustal's over his older brother Nizar's claim. After the passing of al-Mustansir, the two brothers fought over the claim to the throne. al-Mustal won and Nizar was put in jail, and according to Nizari history his son al-Hadi went to Alamut in Iran to hide, where his descendants eventually reclaimed the Imamate. Most Nizaris currently follow the Aga Khan, but a minority in Syria recognize a different (and now dead) lineage.

Eventually the current Mustali Ismailis lost the control of the Fatimid Empire to the Hafizi branch (which died out with the Fatimid Empire). Their twenty-first and final Imam, al-Qasim, is according to them currently in the Occultation and one day will return as al-Mahdi and bring about an age of justice. According to Mustali thought, there is a Dai (Dai al-Mutlaq) who is in direct communication with the hidden Imam and thereby leads the community.

There are three (or possibly more I think) branches of Mustali, and they differ among who the current dai is. The Sulaimani Bohra are in Yemen and Saudi Arabia, and are arguably the most orthodox branch in terms of the line of dais they follow. The Mustali in India eventually split from the Sulaimani in Yemen and Saudi Arabia, because a representative of the dawah in that nation claimed the position of Dai al-Mutlaq for himself. They are called the Dawoodi Bohra. Later there was a second split among the Dawoodi, and the Alavi Bohra were formed.

If I can be of any help in your search for the truth, and the true path of our beloved Ithna'Ashari Imams , I will more than oblige. Remember, the First is Muhammad and the Last is Muhammad , and their souls are all of the same essence. To reject one is to reject all of them. Wasalamu 'alaykom, wa 'ala Ahlul'bayt wa Imama Zamani.

pashtun yeh??????
sungeh yeh wrora?
sur halat deh?
lolzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

[mabus]

Looks like we share quite a bit in common. So why do you deny the path of the Ahlul'bayt ?

Wasalamu 'alaykom, wa 'ala Ahlul'bayt wa Imama Zamani.

Edited by mabus, 07 March 2008 - 05:36 PM.

[Kaka]

Sunni Star, on Mar 7 2008, 10:31 PM, said:

pashtun yeh??????
sungeh yeh wrora?
sur halat deh?
lolzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

Wow is this a Pathan love in! Can i join? (By the way how did you know he was Pashtun? Im Pakhtun does it matter lol!)

Oh kaka, Allah tala las Zaman raka lol (Id prefer 10 daughters, but then im a weird Pukhtun!! lol). Tha pukhtu di uvaya ah zama raz jor sha.

Thasoo sanga yeh?

Afghanistan na aye Mashallah. Nor Pukhtunan shtay? Dalta ba ziyat Shiagan vi kana? Za kala oo Pukhtun Shias sara malau shalay aym na

By the way im talking in Pukhtu, do you even understand what im saying

Lets not derail this brothers thread, he wants a question answered!!

[Sunni Star]

mabus, on Mar 7 2008, 05:36 PM, said:

Looks like we share quite a bit in common. So why do you deny the path of the Ahlul'bayt ?

Wasalamu 'alaykom, wa 'ala Ahlul'bayt wa Imama Zamani.

sharing a common ancestry/ethnic backround is of no means 2 follow da same school of faith though im very intersted in shiaism

Kaka, on Mar 7 2008, 07:13 PM, said:

Wow is this a Pathan love in! Can i join? (By the way how did you know he was Pashtun? Im Pakhtun does it matter lol!)

Oh kaka, Allah tala las Zaman raka lol (Id prefer 10 daughters, but then im a weird Pukhtun!! lol). Tha pukhtu di uvaya ah zama raz jor sha.

Thasoo sanga yeh?

Afghanistan na aye Mashallah. Nor Pukhtunan shtay? Dalta ba ziyat Shiagan vi kana? Za kala oo Pukhtun Shias sara malau shalay aym na

By the way im talking in Pukhtu, do you even understand what im saying

Lets not derail this brothers thread, he wants a question answered!!

lets say my pashtun radar was working!!!!!!!!!!!!


hahahahahahaha
it says he is muhammadzai pashtun
im khattak pashtun btw and of course i undersy=tandwht ur saying im pashtun arent i?????? lolzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

[Kaka]

Pa khair Pa khair! I couldn't help myself.

And regarding the other Pakhtun poster. Why do you deny the first the 3 Caliphs? And more importantly the truth? Im joking! lol! Before i get mobbed

Its naive to think because you share an ethnicity you should share a religion, sect, personal tastes and ideologies vary between individuals. Thats whats wonderful about choice and free will

Im Kakakhel by the way. No im not joking! So the term Kaka defines me right to the t!

By not understanding my Pukhtu, its hard to write it in english and i cant speak it that well, and then im a Pakistani Pathan, and then from the Punjab. Although next to Sarhad lol!

Waya kana?


Mods please, cut our Hujra/Baitak talk and form a new thread in General off topic. And sorry O.P

Edited by Kaka, 07 March 2008 - 07:48 PM.

[mabus]

Dude, Pakhtun Shi'ah are the best kind of Pakhtuns. We combine supreme good-looks and Iman in one convenient package. So says my fiance. When I misquote her.

[Sunni Star]

Kaka, on Mar 7 2008, 07:46 PM, said:

Pa khair Pa khair! I couldn't help myself.

And regarding the other Pakhtun poster. Why do you deny the first the 3 Caliphs? And more importantly the truth? Im joking! lol! Before i get mobbed

Its naive to think because you share an ethnicity you should share a religion, sect, personal tastes and ideologies vary between individuals. Thats whats wonderful about choice and free will

Im Kakakhel by the way. No im not joking! So the term Kaka defines me right to the t!

By not understanding my Pukhtu, its hard to write it in english and i cant speak it that well, and then im a Pakistani Pathan, and then from the Punjab. Although next to Sarhad lol!

Waya kana?


Mods please, cut our Hujra/Baitak talk and form a new thread in General off topic. And sorry O.P

wrora i knw kakahels and ur pashtu was fine btw im frm nwfp though im nationalist pashtun!!!!!!!! hehehehehehe

[mabus]

What area of NWFP?

[Sunni Star]

mabus, on Mar 7 2008, 07:49 PM, said:

Dude, Pakhtun Shi'ah are the best kind of Pakhtuns. We combine supreme good-looks and Iman in one convenient package. So says my fiance. When I misquote her.

wrora most pashtun are sunni
most bangash pashtun are shia and a few orakzai and a few mohamedzai
lolzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
and sunni pashtuns have high iman
we have bled 4 islam like no other qawm (dats all pashtuns btw not just da sunni ones)

mabus, on Mar 7 2008, 07:55 PM, said:

What area of NWFP?

nowshera a place called cherat

[mabus]

Yeah, most Pakhtuns are Sunni. But we Shi'ah are small and rare and unique!

We Pakhtun have fought so much for Islam, we have bled and we have toppled empires. Alhamdullilah we have been protected, alhamdullilah we continue to live on and thrive.

[Sunni Star]

mabus, on Mar 7 2008, 07:58 PM, said:

Yeah, most Pakhtuns are Sunni. But we Shi'ah are small and rare and unique!

We Pakhtun have fought so much for Islam, we have bled and we have toppled empires. Alhamdullilah we have been protected, alhamdullilah we continue to live on and thrive.

ameen 2 dat wrora
it amazes me the zeal dat pashtun qawm wether shia or sunni has 4 islam
pashtunwali and islam have soooooo much in common

[Kaka]

mabus, on Mar 8 2008, 12:49 AM, said:

Dude, Pakhtun Shi'ah are the best kind of Pakhtuns. We combine supreme good-looks and Iman in one convenient package. So says my fiance. When I misquote her.

Wrora! Zalima!

Well My mother disagrees she says us Sunnis do lol! I dont have a fiance! Well not for another year Inshallah.

I could mention the names of some non-pathan girls i know who would also disagree and state the above of us Sunni Pathans. But then this is an Islamic site, and i dont fraternise with girls that way of course!!!

Sunni Star, on Mar 8 2008, 12:53 AM, said:

wrora i knw kakahels and ur pashtu was fine btw im frm nwfp though im nationalist pashtun!!!!!!!! hehehehehehe

Im a bit of a nationalist! I hate Urdu lol.....

[mabus]

But see, that is silly logic. Sunnis are the majority. So you would be stating, "The majority of Pakhtuns are the best kind of Pakhtun." Shi'ah are the minority, so what I'm stating is that, "This minority of Pakhtuns are the best kind of Pakhtun."

And guys! Don't use the term Pathan, that's so Urdu!

PS: I'm not posting in this topic anymore. This was a seeker of the truth asking a question and our job is to help them find it. If you guys want create a topic for Pakhtuns elsewhere. Maybe a mod can move our messages to it as well. Khuda hafiz.

Edited by mabus, 07 March 2008 - 08:17 PM.

[Kaka]

Sunni Star, on Mar 8 2008, 12:56 AM, said:

wrora most pashtun are sunni
most bangash pashtun are shia and a few orakzai and a few mohamedzai
lolzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
and sunni pashtuns have high iman
we have bled 4 islam like no other qawm (dats all pashtuns btw not just da sunni ones)





nowshera a place called cherat

Hey wrora tha sa vay! Day moong la tanay rakai, ta da dha tareef kay! Only us Pukhtun Sunnis have bled, Afghanistan is full of our blood!


Im joking im sure Shias would have bled blood aswell! And i wouldn't disrespect that

Mods please cut our posts in this thread. Im really sorry. Mabus is to blame! Isnt he Sunni brother?

Edited by Kaka, 07 March 2008 - 08:23 PM.

[yonus]

sisachica1, on Mar 7 2008, 04:06 PM, said:

salam aleikom wr wb...
im a convert to islam...sunni..searching for the truth..well, yeah..the first step i made when i converted to islam...but im trying to make the second step to find more...
at the present time im searching information about the ismailis of Najran area in SAU...i would appreciate if any ismaili of the same thought that the those from najran have, would write here or contact me..
jazzakom allaho khair..
aziza

There were so many friends to me from Najran , before islamic Sahwa [getting up or walking up ] they didn't know any thing about their sect because they live as beduins  eating , drinking and playing .

One of them said to me I am hanafi , aren't islamic sects 4 and one of them is hanafi ? he was mistaken for Ismaili sect was also called al haneef sect but he mixed with hanafi the sunni sect . Offffffffffff

I dislike them and I dislike their sect . Such hypocrites

It is a sect standing on secrets and it is actually empty .

When they pray , I dunno how many rakaat they do [ so many ]  and pray in high speed .

Any way in najran ismailis belong to one tribe called yaam  75 % ismailis and the others are sunni salafis .

Three things they hate as one of them said to me  Woman , Slave [ black man ] and donkey . Silly people .

There are so many black people who were ismailis converted to sunni salafis .

Edited by yonus, 08 March 2008 - 05:43 AM.

[sisachica1]

salam aleikom wr wb...jazzakum allahu kheir for those who replied me...although i would be happy if the others wouldnt interphere the sujbect but follow it if they have anything to add...
regarding the many rakaat they pray i was told that except the fard prayers they also pray the sunna and nawafil...thats why so many rakaas they pray...there is an islamili friend of mine (islmaili of najran) trying to explain me their way of thinking but my problem is that my arabic isnt that good to understand these issues thats why i turned on u all to help me to tell me more about them...of course i would be even happier if someone who is ismaili of najran would contact me but anyway..i accept anyone responding me...its really interesting to read more and more from more sources and ppl...
and again..jazzakom allahu kheir..
keep on responding...
aziza

yonus, on Mar 8 2008, 01:34 PM, said:

There were so many friends to me from Najran , before islamic Sahwa [getting up or walking up ] they didn't know any thing about their sect because they live as beduins  eating , drinking and playing .

One of them said to me I am hanafi , aren't islamic sects 4 and one of them is hanafi ? he was mistaken for Ismaili sect was also called al haneef sect but he mixed with hanafi the sunni sect . Offffffffffff

I dislike them and I dislike their sect . Such hypocrites

It is a sect standing on secrets and it is actually empty .

When they pray , I dunno how many rakaat they do [ so many ]  and pray in high speed .

Any way in najran ismailis belong to one tribe called yaam  75 % ismailis and the others are sunni salafis .

Three things they hate as one of them said to me  Woman , Slave [ black man ] and donkey . Silly people .

There are so many black people who were ismailis converted to sunni salafis .

[Anti-salafi]

salam

what exactly you want to know about islmailis of Najran ?

just type some questions & i will answer those which i know

[sisachica1]

anti salafi...are u from najran?

well, actually...i know nothing about ismailis generally...but to start with, im searching about any and every info about the ismailis in najran...as i wrote already..a friend of mine is this kind of ismaili and i wish to understand their way of understanding islam...
i converted to islam more than eight years ago...didnt know there is shia, sunna and so on...later on i found out that the way im practicing islam is sunni way...then i found out that even sunna, same as shia has branches and so on...well, i left the subject now...sorry..hehe..so..anything and everything about the ismailis of najran..
aziza

[mansab.jafri]

sisachica1, on Mar 8 2008, 12:30 PM, said:

then i found out that even sunna, same as shia has branches and so on...well, i left the subject now...sorry..hehe..so..anything and everything about the ismailis of najran..
aziza

With all due respect to Ahlul'sunnah and to Ismailis..... We Shi'a Ithna'Ashariyya don't have branches, we do not consider Ismailis to be Shi'a... We consider those who follow the 14 Masoomeen to be Shi'a, no exceptions.

- Mansab

[sisachica1]

mansab.jafri, on Mar 8 2008, 09:32 PM, said:

With all due respect to Ahlul'sunnah and to Ismailis..... We Shi'a Ithna'Ashariyya don't have branches, we do not consider Ismailis to be Shi'a... We consider those who follow the 14 Masoomeen to be Shi'a, no exceptions.

- Mansab

mansab...whats Ithna'Ashariyya? well, as far as i know, when i asked an ismaeli from najran if they are shia, he said..not shia, not sunna...then he was saying more...for me it sounded as more to shia..but really didnt understand as my arabic is not that good to understand these kind of issues...

is there any web site of the ismailis of najran? the site made by them?

[mansab.jafri]

sisachica1, on Mar 8 2008, 01:35 PM, said:

mansab...whats Ithna'Ashariyya? well, as far as i know, when i asked an ismaeli from najran if they are shia, he said..not shia, not sunna...then he was saying more...for me it sounded as more to shia..but really didnt understand as my arabic is not that good to understand these kind of issues...

is there any web site of the ismailis of najran? the site made by them?

sis.

Ithna'Asharis follow the 12 Imams of Ahlul'bayt (a.s.), and we're the only ones to do so.  Other groups which CLAIM to be Shi'i or to be lovers of Ahlul'bayt (Ahlul'sunnah) aren't really their followers or their lovers because either they broke away from the Imams of Ahlul'bayt early in history, or they refused to follow them and they instead loved and followed those who persecuted them.

- Mansab

[sisachica1]

mansab.jafri, on Mar 8 2008, 09:39 PM, said:

sis.

Ithna'Asharis follow the 12 Imams of Ahlul'bayt (a.s.), and we're the only ones to do so.  Other groups which CLAIM to be Shi'i or to be lovers of Ahlul'bayt (Ahlul'sunnah) aren't really their followers or their lovers because either they broke away from the Imams of Ahlul'bayt early in history, or they refused to follow them and they instead loved and followed those who persecuted them.

- Mansab

i guess i should of start with.....or..from the separation of sunna and shia...can u shortly write me how sunni became sunni and how shia became shia...and so on?